sadam -al qaeda

[mask]

again one of the lies the bush administration fed to the public is revealed. The panel investigating the 9/11 attacks released a report that denies any ties between saddam hussein and al qaeda. The funny thing is that we already knew that. That just proves that if you have the mic and the enough persistence you'd be able to convince the masses of the most hilarious lies. But i'm sure conservatives are gonna see past this liberal fabrication and sustain their support to the president's decision. Or maybe it is enough that we converted Iraq into the secure democratic functional nation that it is now. Btw the administration respond was that they stand by what Powel said about the links.
Well they stood by what he said about Iraq buying uranium from Niger, they just have no shame these people. Or maybe it's simply that they don't have to prove nothing to no one , it's just enough that they know. They didn't have to prove to the world that Iraq constituted an urgent threat to the US. They just knew they were right and that's enough, same case here i'm guessing.


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[Apokalupsis]

...wait...when did Bush say that Iraq was linked to Al-Qaeda??

[KevinBrowning]

I doubt a claim was ever made that there was a direct link between the Baath Party and al-Qaida. The only organization based in Iraq that has a proven link to al-Qaida is Ansar al-Islam, as far as I know.

[Apokalupsis]

A secondary question:

Is it claimed, that there was absolutely NO relationship between Iraq and Al-Qaeda, none whatsoever (which includes training, security and funding)? Or is it just claimed that Iraq had no command and control over Al-Qaeda?

Before one starts making accusations about Bush being a liar, one should fully understand what it is, they are accusing Bush of.

[mog]

...wait...when did Bush say that Iraq was linked to Al-Qaeda??

In 'Dude, Where's my Country?' Moore quotes a single weeks worth of what he aptly terms "serial lying".

Here are some of the shorter ones:
"That's the nature of this man. We know he's got ties with Al Qaeda."
November 1, 2002

"This is a man who has got connections with Al Qaeda"
November 4

All in all Moore has 8 quotes from a single week period of Bush claiming in speeches that Saddam Hussein has/had links/ties/connections/contacts with Al Qaeda.

In the State of the Union address Bush says "Evidence from intelligence sources, secret communications, and statements by people now in custody reveal that Saddam Hussein aids and protects terrorists, including members of Al Qaeda."

During his address to the UN Powell spoke of the "nexus between Iraq and the Al Qaeda network". Moore notes that during the same week of this address, a British Intelligence report was leaked to the BBC that unequivocally stated that there were no links. This report further stated that Bin Laden's "aims are in ideological conflict with present day Iraq." So, as you can see, these claims were fabrications from the very beginning. There are also countless accounts from American intelligence to the same effect, and just like the British, they were leant on by the government until they produced the 'right answer'. You can also see from polls that the majority of the US public was successfully tricked into thinking there were links.


The only organization based in Iraq that has a proven link to al-Qaida is Ansar al-Islam, as far as I know.

That appears to be correct, and Ansar al-Islam were enemies of Saddam. Furthermore, their bases were mainly in northern Kurdish Iraq, an area out of the control of Saddam Hussein and patrolled by USAF and RAF planes.

[Apokalupsis]

See post #4.

[mog]

See post #4.

The claim is that the only relationship were failed attempts many years ago by Al Qaeda to gain Iraqi favour. The 9/11 commissions findings that just came out support this.

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You can see for yourself from the actual report here:
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Page 5, paragraph 4.

[KevinBrowning]

It's fairly well-known that Saddam was a secularist dictator. Saddam's alleged relationship with al-Qa'ida was never cited as a major reason for the invasion, if I recall. If there did turn out to be a relationship, that's just a bonus. The main reasons given for invading Iraq were possession of and intent to use WMD.

[kwinters]

...wait...when did Bush say that Iraq was linked to Al-Qaeda??

Re: Bush Administration as mentioned in post 1


WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Vice President Dick Cheney, who took the lead in pushing the idea of long-standing links between Saddam Hussein and al Qaeda, has no intention of backing down despite a finding to the contrary by the Sept. 11 commission, aides said on Wednesday.

Administration officials stood by Cheney, who critics accuse of using faulty intelligence about alleged weapons of mass destruction and Iraqi links to al Qaeda to push the nation to war.

...Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld declared in September 2002: "We know that al-Qaeda is operating in Iraq today."

[Apokalupsis]

Which is a true statement. There are links between the two. What is not true (and has never been claimed by the Bush administration), is that Iraq was involved in 911, or had command and control of Al-Qaeda.

Iraq funded, gave sanctuary to, and provided training facilities and resources to Al-Qaeda. Thus, there is a link between the two.

[F1Fan]

It's fairly well-known that Saddam was a secularist dictator. Saddam's alleged relationship with al-Qa'ida was never cited as a major reason for the invasion, if I recall. If there did turn out to be a relationship, that's just a bonus. The main reasons given for invading Iraq were possession of and intent to use WMD.
Yes, well we know how reliable that reason was. That's 0 for 2.

[mask]

. Saddam's alleged relationship with al-Qa'ida was never cited as a major reason for the invasion, if I recall.
it was one of the main reasons,WMD's and links to al qaeda, what else??. And that's how Powel presented the case to the UN.


The main reasons given for invading Iraq were possession of and intent to use WMD.
which of course turned out to be true , right??
ru saying it wasn't that lie , it was the other????lol

[Apokalupsis]

It was one of the "main reasons"? I don't recall that. Anyone have a script of speeches where this is stated?

[mask]

Iraq funded, gave sanctuary to, and provided training facilities and resources to Al-Qaeda. Thus, there is a link between the two.
"Osama bin Laden sought Iraq's help in obtaining weapons and setting up terrorist training camps in the early 1990s, and he reportedly met with a top Iraqi intelligence officer. But Iraq "apparently never responded" to al-Qaeda's requests for help, a preliminary report by the commission says. The meetings "do not appear to have resulted in a collaborative relationship."
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[kwinters]

Which is a true statement. There are links between the two. What is not true (and has never been claimed by the Bush administration), is that Iraq was involved in 911, or had command and control of Al-Qaeda.

Iraq funded, gave sanctuary to, and provided training facilities and resources to Al-Qaeda. Thus, there is a link between the two.

Upon what evidence are you basing that claim?

[kwinters]

It was one of the "main reasons"? I don't recall that. Anyone have a script of speeches where this is stated?

What about post #5?

[mog]

Iraq funded, gave sanctuary to, and provided training facilities and resources to Al-Qaeda. Thus, there is a link between the two.

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Page 5, paragraph 4.

[kwinters]

There are probably more AQ operatives working, training and planning attacks against Americans in Iraq now than under Sadaam.

[Anywien]

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Now I know this isn't true, but it's still pretty funny.

[FruitandNut]

What about those of us who have 'been around the block a few times already'? You might have to get up a bit earlier to catch us out.

We are aware that there are, 'Lies, damn lies, statistics, lawers and then there's politicians.'

[Apokalupsis]

Still gathering 'intel' for a rebuttal. ;)

However, it would appear that what the media has released, that which most of you cling to as the "gospel" here, was nothing more than premature staff reports. Over the weekend both Republican and Democratic members of the commission came out to say "wtf?!" at the Media. ;) The commission does NOT conclude that there were no connections between UBL and Saddam. The report is not due out until right before the Democratic Convention.

[Booger]

Still gathering 'intel' for a rebuttal. ;)

You're barking up the wrong tree here, fella. I'll wait for your rebuttal, but when it comes, I'm ready to drop the H bomb on you...hard.

[Apokalupsis]

Is this the 'ole Preparation H plan?

[FruitandNut]

I heard that at one stage UBL's organisation did approach Saddam for training facillities and other support, but got no reply. Remember, there has always been a mutual suspicion and emnity between the two on the grounds of the religious vs. secular debate.