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papasmurf
January 13th, 2004, 05:58 PM
sorry, you told me this would be a good subject for this site so here it is :P

well, a lot of you will say heck no, or heck yes... i don't know much about this just a few things, if you guys have talked about it already fine but i would like to hear some peoples feelings about this.

Should Weed be legal? This is what people have said to me..


"yes, cigs are far more harmful than weed, the only thing wrong with weed is the people that doesn't use it responsively"

"No, it kills your mind and soon you wont have one" - my opinion on this comment is alcohol does the same thing to you. but then again I'm not a scientist

"No, weed will cause the same problems with other legal drugs, b/c people are stupid."

"Yes, weed should be legal its only illegal b/c companies didn't want the competition."

and a lot of others....

by the things iv been seeing.. not saying these aren't the only ones but there is basically two opinions

one nothing is wrong with it, and the people that use it "wrong" make it look bad.

2. The other side is its HORRIBLE for u kills your brain and makes you do stupid things.

there is a lot more i can say about this but ill just let you guys post if your interested.

and sorry for my bad typing(grammar).

http://www.torontodancehall.com/jokes/pictures/images/yoda%20on%20weed.jpg

Darwin
January 13th, 2004, 06:21 PM
I do think marijuana should be legalized. It should have never been made illegal in the first place.

Some may argue that marijuana is harmful to the person using it. That's a highly contentious issue, but it's also pointless. It's not the government's responsibility to protect me from myself. Others may argue that marijuana use may, if used while operating a vehicle, cause me to harm others.

Assuming that's true, so what? What about cell phones? How many times have you passed someone on the interstate, only to see them dialing their phone or chatting away? What about radios? Now they're even putting televisions in automobiles. I've even seen people reading while driving. Why are all these activities perfectly legal, yet marijuana use is illegal?

mog
January 13th, 2004, 06:31 PM
It should be legalised for sure. Admittedly it's not in the same league as alcohol prohibition, but it is in the same way a personal freedom that should be allowed just like alcohol and ciggarettes. The actual initial banning of marijuana in the US has many of its roots in racism, as it was prevalent among the black community.

"Reefer makes darkies think they're as good as white men."
Harry Anslinger, Cheif of the Federal Bureau of Narcotics in 1929, the man who made weed illegal.

RTShatto
January 13th, 2004, 06:36 PM
I dont know if this is a fact or not, but i've heard that when it was legal during colonial times, it wasnt really a problem, but the problem started when the people started getting paranoid at the increase numbers of immigrants "flooding" this country. The fear was that the Chinese would come over and drug up the local population. Of course we all know what the English did to the Chinese right?

Well if you dont, the English were pissed off centuries ago due to the fact that they took in a lot of imports from China and not enough exports, so they discovered that they could drug up the local Chinese into submision by "flooding" there country with Opium.

So this problem eventualy made its way to America during the construction of the railroads, so it was a mix of paranoia/rasicm towards the immigrants and a fear of a drug epidemic that made them change there laws on what could be taken.

Sorry for the brief history, but I think it would be important to understand part of the reason why Marijuana is illegal.

CC
January 15th, 2004, 12:12 PM
okay ya potheads!.......j/k........................Marijauana being kept illegal has nothing to do with it being a drug and everything to do with big business not wanting any competition.

Look up the Marijuana prohibition act of 1936 and look at their arguments to make it ilegal.......

"Smoking marijunaua will cause a person to go insane."

"Black men smoke marijauna and seek out sex with white women."

These are just two of the propganda that the committee of the time used to hoodwink the population.

Henry Ford invented the his first car not only to run on methanol made from marijauna, but he demomnstrated how the entire car itself could be made from compressed and hardened marijuana fiber.

Rockerfeller (fello?) ...anyway....he was getting in on the ground floor of the oil industry and presuaded (bribed) Henry Ford to switch the enfines to use gasoline.

Henry Ford was quoted as saying that hemp and the multitude of products produced from it could easily become the world's first billion dollar industry.

Marijauna and the less potent form of hemp can be used and replace more cheaply to reduce our consuption of raw materials.

Marijuana has undisputable medical properties that work much better than expensive meds prescribed by docs.

hemp oils and the by-products can be used for anything from methanol for fuel to eco-friendly industrial chemicals. Paper made from hemp pulp is far better and cheaper than paper made from trees. (and it saves trees)

Clothing made from hemp is far more durable and versatile than cotton.

Hemp can be grown on the same ground over and over, it does not deplete the nutrients but rather enriches the soil when plowed under. It could be grown on the land the feds set aside for crop rotation and not even use any existing farms.

hemp seed was the staple for many varieties of birds that no longer exist in the USA because of the attempted eradication of the plant. (Carrier pigeons for one)

Read Jack Herer's "The Emporer Wears no Clothes."

He explains how big biz and big gov work together not only to keep marijauna illegal to avoid upsetting the oil,forest,chemical,and textile industries but also to spread misinformation in order to keep the masses arguing over whether or not it is really the "Heathen Devil Weed" it was portrayed as being in the 1940's classic, "Reefer Madness".

Even if you hate pot, the war on drugs is an utter failure. It is an utter failure because the focus (behind their backs) is not about health and instead, about protecting finanial interests.

I have a constitutional right to do what I like so far as it harms no one.

As citizens (look it up), we not only have the right, but it is our "duty" to disobey and abolish laws derived from powers not granted our gov in the Constitution.

End the crazy drug war. Educate, not legislate.

But we won't. Instead the masses will continue to argue over it and we will continue to foot the bill for an unjust war. More and more $$$$$!


...........and the band plays on.

later taters....................:O)

CC
January 20th, 2004, 09:16 AM
End of discussion?.........................later taters........................:O)

Linz
February 3rd, 2004, 04:35 PM
okay ya potheads!.......j/k........................Marijuana being kept illegal has nothing to do with it being a drug and everything to do with big business not wanting any competition.

Well said Cclown, do you actually believe that if the beer industry like Budweiser wasn't contributing massive amounts of money in the FIGHT AGAINST DRUGS...(marijuana) that it wouldn't have been remade legal?

In actuality they want to keep it illegal, for fear of decline in their sales.. Lets just think about it this way... Alcohol is the only legal approach to get Americans intoxicated... $$$$$$$



Marijuana has indisputable medical properties that work much better than expensive meds prescribed by docs.
The reason for use of marijuana in cancer patients is to reduce the effects of nausea caused by the chemotherapy and other harsh medications used in the treatment... these people need to eat, and the marijuana helps... dr's want to prescribe it instead of pumping patients already depleted bodies with more medications that could result in adverse side effects... but it is illegal for Dr's to prescribe in MOST states... $$$- pharmaceutical Co's.


I have a constitutional right to do what I like so far as it harms no one.
Here here!!!! My patriotic ally... Lets think on this one 85% of the adult population in this country has "tried" marijuana... (ie.. Bill Clinton)... WE THE PEOPLE deserve the right to make this decision on our own... And we do, just not so legally.


And now in my own defense... I don't smoke weed (well not anymore)... SO YOU CAN'T EVEN CALL ME A HIPPIE LIBERAL with my own agenda in mind
:p

Apokalupsis
February 3rd, 2004, 05:31 PM
I've never heard that Budweiser contributes massive amounts of money to fight drugs. Is there any evidence to this?

Also, as far as: I have a constitutional right to do what I like so far as it harms no one. ....

Then one should be able to have fun with a bit of heroin, crack, coke, etc... in their own home as far as they harm no one, right?

And in the pursuit of creating a more scholarly and knowledgeable society (Educate, not legislate.)...do you think it betters society to legalize crack and allow people to freely take any drug they like, "so long as they don't harm anyone"?

CC
February 3rd, 2004, 06:33 PM
I've never heard that Budweiser contributes massive amounts of money to fight drugs. Is there any evidence to this?

To even asked this question reveals that you have not involved yourself as to the sources behind the powers that "donate' money to keep marijauna illegal and pay for the enormous propganda put out by such industries.

Yes, Busch has donated to many "anti'marijauna" campaigns. I'm sure they do it in part to present their own product as more wholesome, or at least more accepted. I'm not going to go through digging up links and point you to "evidence". It's there to those who look for it and has been there for some time.

Are you aware for instance that just until recently, (ONLY after it was publicly revealed) that Phillip-Morris was one of the main contributors behind "Parents for a Drug free America"? The hypocrysy!

Or that Bush Sr. was reprimanded for using his building political connections to get a law passed that allowed Lilley Pharmaceuticals to sell out of date drugs to other countries? Not a bad thing except for he was very good friends with the Quayle family, who owned a good chunk of Lilly. I wonder what they did for George Jr? Whatever it was could have well involved Dan becoming the chosen running mate. Conspiracy?

Are you aware that It was Dow chemical company that was a big voice behind the marijuana act of 1936? Do you know why? Surely it wasn't because of all the much more eco friendly by-products of hemp being developed in the US and abroad were being found to work better and be produced cheaper and more in tune with the enviroment? That would have meant some pretty stiff competition.

The ads connecting mariujanua use to terrorism were at first a direct violation of FCC rules. Those ads were payed for and put out by the DEA, WITHOUT revealing in the commercial that it was backed by them. Rather than show that (and make the taxpayers realize where there money went they pulled those segments that made those references).

EVEN MADD and the government were criticized for the gov givng them tax dollars that help help sway elections.

ANYTIME you see or hear anti-marijuana ads one should always follow the money.

Henry Ford not only first made his first prototype to run on methanol made from hemp, but to demonstrate the viability and versatility of the hemp plant he even made the prototype itself from compressed hemp! The entire body! He estimated that without any care it would last 20 years and was very impact absorbant. (compared to steel)

Henry Ford predicted that Hemp would, because of it's adaptability to many applications and its relative ease to produce and manufacture products, that hemp would become the world's first "billion dollar" industry.


Then one should be able to have fun with a bit of heroin, crack, coke, etc... in their own home as far as they harm no one, right?

NOW you got it! I don't care if someone wants to snort rat poison in their own home, or rub alcohol on their eyes, or whatever. Of course most people are aware that alcohol burns when rubbed in the eyes and that rat poison is deadly. That is because there is not mixed or even decieving information put out about rat poison, like there is marijauna and several other drugs the powers that be have decided in their wisdom that are somehow worse for us than nicotine or alcohol, or even rat poison apparently since even a child can buy rat poisen with no problem. Yes, education, NOT leglislation.


And now in my own defense... I don't smoke weed (well not anymore)... SO YOU CAN'T EVEN CALL ME A HIPPIE LIBERAL with my own agenda in mind

*L*..........Whether or not anyone personally smokes or not shouldn't have any bearing on whether pot should be as legal as it's more harmful but legal counterparts so far as "recreation" drugs go.

The war on drugs is the dismal failure it was doomed to be from the start since it was based on facts that science did not support.....*The gov hired berkley university to do a study on pot. An official study for the gov itself. When they did not like the results they scrapped it and found a voice (no surprise there) in other medical experts who would find a different conclusion.

Go to NORMYL's website and take their challenge (ANYONE! PLEASE!) and grab all that money they have posted as a reward for anyone who could prove their claims about mariajuana to be false. You won't though. I believe it is a million dollar reward too!....and it's been offered now for more than twelve years..................:O)

suchislife
February 13th, 2004, 04:23 PM
Legallize it, and tax the sh*t out of it.....but then again, I think EVERY drug should be legal and then taxed up the wazoo.

(And no, I dont use drugs.Just wanted to clarify that!! hehe.. Well, alcohol, but we're talking illegals here!)

suchislife
February 13th, 2004, 04:30 PM
Go to NORMYL's website.....

Well, where's the link...I just want to check out what you are talking about!!

3rdPersonPlural
February 13th, 2004, 06:25 PM
Illegal drugs is a multi billion dollar enterprise on both sides of the coin.

Do you think that a little logic will POSSIBLY interfere with that?

I expect it will be more difficult to score if it was legal anyway, so who cares?

Apokalupsis
February 14th, 2004, 10:06 AM
http://www.vtgrassrootsparty.org/

http://www.norml.org/

suchislife
February 14th, 2004, 10:30 AM
http://www.vtgrassrootsparty.org/

http://www.norml.org/


Thanks Apok!

O B
February 16th, 2004, 11:34 AM
i'm gonna buy it either way so it doesnt matter to much, but if it was legal there woldnt be so much ****e kickin about because the goverment could put regulations on the quality same works for all popular drugs. that way no more dead heroin addicts no more dodgy pills and quality weed, resin your choice. Plus think of the money to be made on taxing drugs look at fags(u smoke not gays) and alchahol.

Wizard
March 8th, 2004, 04:45 PM
It's not just about weed. It's about your right to do what you want in your own home . Somebody smoking weed shouldn't be a crime , WHO is the victim? Most people against legalization know nothing about it ! Uncle Sam
promotes ignorance on the subject,because after all , the American public are like sheep and very gullible . Thats a FACT !!

jam_mom
March 8th, 2004, 06:35 PM
One plus about weed is that it is "natural". Alcohol on the other hand is fermented (?) yeast and stuff. Wine is rotten fruit. (but very good homemade) I know this is kinda off the subject but I thought I'd put my two cents in......If your a natural buff you might like to know....

mrs_innocent
March 8th, 2004, 06:39 PM
One plus about weed is that it is "natural". Alcohol on the other hand is fermented (?) yeast and stuff. Wine is rotten fruit. (but very good homemade)

Hmmmm...I've always been taught that those chemicals they add to weed (to give it its effect) were just that: chemicals. And that, conversely, fermentation is more a natural process than the addition of chemicals to a plant. Also, even if fruit is rotten, it's still natural....... :confused: Don't mean to come off as rude, but that's how it's always been explained to me.

jam_mom
March 8th, 2004, 07:02 PM
Hmmmm...I've always been taught that those chemicals they add to weed (to give it its effect) were just that: chemicals. And that, conversely, fermentation is more a natural process than the addition of chemicals to a plant. Also, even if fruit is rotten, it's still natural....... :confused: Don't mean to come off as rude, but that's how it's always been explained to me.
I wouldn't know about any that had chemicals in it. When I smoked it was locally grown and had no chemicals add to it. :)

Spartacus
March 8th, 2004, 07:42 PM
Legalize all drugs. Tax the recreational drugs to fund abuse and addiction treatment programs.

Non-recreational drugs should be had at any pharmacy from a licensed pharmacist. Prescriptions should not be required....

Of course this will require people accepting greater responsibility for their own actions...can we handle this?

This will save our country billions of dollars now used to enforce failed anti-drug laws. It Will reduce crowing in our priosons and get treatment to people who are ready to acecept it. It will also greatly reduce the amount violence in our society that exists because drugs are illegal. There will no longer be a multi-billion dollar black market.

This is so simple I do not know why more people do not see it.

Withnail
March 8th, 2004, 09:32 PM
At the very least Weed should be decriminalized.

I'm not sure I agree that all currently illegal drugs should be made legal. Such drugs as crack cocaine and crystal meth have the power to destroy lives and communities. But Pot?

I also hate the argument that Pot is a "gateway" drug, that will lead casual users towards harder drugs.

Anyway, since no one seems to be arguing that it should be kept illegal, let me ask, where's the party?

CC
March 9th, 2004, 12:43 PM
Legalize all drugs. Tax the recreational drugs to fund abuse and addiction treatment programs.

Non-recreational drugs should be had at any pharmacy from a licensed pharmacist. Prescriptions should not be required....

Of course this will require people accepting greater responsibility for their own actions...can we handle this?

This will save our country billions of dollars now used to enforce failed anti-drug laws. It Will reduce crowing in our priosons and get treatment to people who are ready to acecept it. It will also greatly reduce the amount violence in our society that exists because drugs are illegal. There will no longer be a multi-billion dollar black market.

This is so simple I do not know why more people do not see it.



I have to say that though we are polar opposites on religion and the reasons for war, that we both have a strong sense of personal responsibility......I HAVE to respect that.........:O)

FruitandNut
March 29th, 2004, 02:27 PM
If we legalise 'Wacky Baccy' we will end up with the problems (to one degree or another) that we have with ciggies and booze. (Both of the latter were introduced before health regulations had formality and a scientific basis). It is said that if Raleigh had introduced tobacco to the UK recently, it would be an illegal class A drug. Yes, I know there are aguements like, we have a problem anyway, it would take the profit motive from criminal elements, purity and strength can be regulated. But long term researches are beginning to return some statistically significant findings about 'brain damage'. -Also I would not like to think of large numbers of drivers on the public roads 'too mentally relaxed and layed back' on weed.

Having looked at brain scans - speaking personally - thanks, but no thanks.

sjjs
March 30th, 2004, 09:01 AM
Legalising herb is not necessarily going to make it legal to smoke/eat as much as you like and drive a car. Alcohol is legal but it's illegal to drive over the limit.

My understanding is that they're looking at ways to test for drugs in the same way a breathalyser does now. Fair enough; buy it in controlled areas and consume it in the pub or in your own home but no operating heavy machinery afterwards.

I'd rather have a Saturday night full of chilled out folk looking for a place to lie down and watch the stars than pissed up folk looking for a fight. And I guess most inner city police would say the same.

CC
March 30th, 2004, 09:07 AM
geez! there are so many slanted studies done to prop up how bad pot is or is not, depending on your view.

A couple of things that are indisputable:

We KNOW the health consenquences of smoking ciggerettes and we know how much alcohol consuption ruins lives, causes severe health problems and...is a leading factor in many many acts of violence. Yet, we not only allow the use of these we even celebrate them! Alcohol is common-place in nearly all walks of life. Whether it's the wino on the street drinking a discarded botttle of cologne or the millionaire having his thousand dollar wine.
Same with tobbacco. Whether it is the street person who picks up butts off the curb to smoke or the corporation leader who lights up a hundred dollar cigar.

So, even if we are going to say there is evidence that pot will fry your brain (there is no conclusive evidence, and I know many who have smoked daily for over 30 years and raised a fine family and are peers in their communites and appear as intelligent as anyone I know) we still have to address the two problems caused by such an obvious hypocrisy in the double standard.

First, it is impossible to educate the citzentry or children when we allow legal consuption of two drugs that have proven track records of being harmful when abused and make less harmful drugs illegal.
Children aren't stupid. You tell them that pot leads to herion and they smoke pot but don't want herion the argument goes flat. Children, (especially teens) are not apt to take the word of organizations that clearly have an anti agenda and use falsities over pot but do litle to address the question of the double standard being applied to our laws concerning the use of drugs, legal and otherwise.

Secondly, who in the h*ll is the government or ANY other person on earth to to tell me which manner of intoxication I prefer. I wish to smoke pot as opposed to drinking beer there should be difference. It is certainly taking away my personal choice to do so without recrimination, and for no valid reason.

Add to that that the real reasons marijuana (nothing to do with health or public safety) is illegal here as opposed to the given reasons, and the people behind keeping it illegal. I posted this quite extensively on another thread and will not rehash it on this one.


Having looked at brain scans - speaking personally - thanks, but no thanks.

What brain scans? And compared to what other brain scans....ever seen the liver of an addicted drinker? Or the lungs of a lifelong tobbacco smoker?........No thanks to those even more so!

I really hope you are not referring to the absurd ad that Partnership (backed by phillip morris, Dow chemical, Lilley Pharmeceuticals and others) that showed the supposed "Brain wave of someone on pot"? They were FORCED to take that off the air and admit that they were actually showing the flatline brainwave of someone who was DEAD! Pure propaganda........................................ .:O)

sjjs
March 30th, 2004, 12:27 PM
Let's also chime in with the fact that pot doesn't have to be smoked. Bud butter biscuits are fine!

FruitandNut
March 30th, 2004, 01:13 PM
I suppose it comes down to that thorny old chestnut of most things in moderation (and where and when appropriate) - but then we are left with disparate definitions of just what is moderation? For some, never. For others - 'all the time man'. And for the rest somewhere in between those positions. - Oh, and there's always the undecided.

Saw last years BBC TV 'Christmas Lectures' (on drugs and the effects on brain function). The lecturer was a world aknowledged expert in the field of neuropsychology - she commented that some statistically significant info. was coming in on long term effects of regular partaking of 'weed' - some of the results were not good.

Once again I say that I don't like the idea of over layed back driving, man. I feel the same way about alcohol and driving.

Iluvatar
March 30th, 2004, 01:35 PM
Wow. There's a lot more support for legalization than I would have thought. I think every form of drug should be legal, but restricted. Make it illgal to drive while under influence, and make it illegal for kids. A person is much better off high than drunk, as I know from seeing many drunks, and many people on weed.

And I totaly agree that the gov't is brainwashing our kids into thinking that weed is a cross between industrial waste and sulfuic acid. I remember the many campaigns and speeches about how evil drugs are. I kept asking myself, what about tabbaco, or beer? I see many more people with ruined lives from beel than from weed. And that crap about gateway druggs...handguns are gateway weapons to rocket launchers, don't ya know? Weed, for both medicinal and recreational use is fine. It is known to be damaging long term, but so is alchohal. In moderation, marijuana, like beer, can be fun and interesting. I know people who have a drink at social occasions, and occasionaly at home. Marijuana should be the same way.

BTW, what group, liberal or conservative, generaly supports less drug restrictions?

sjjs
March 31st, 2004, 03:30 AM
In the UK there's the Legalise Cannabis Alliance( http://www.lca-uk.org/) I think there are some others as well.

Do you have anything like this in the States? Or elsewhere?

AntiMaterialist
March 31st, 2004, 06:35 AM
The U.S. has NORML - the National Organization for the Reform of Marijuana Laws.

CC
March 31st, 2004, 09:24 AM
- she commented that some statistically significant info. was coming in on long term effects of regular partaking of 'weed' - some of the results were not good.

No one is saying that overuse over a long period of time (I smoked well over thirty years, my last check-up luckily revealed no health probs).

People, in fact most mammals have since the begining of time sought out things to injest that would change their mood to a perception of either a better feeling or higher level of conciousness. That is as natural as indulging in sex for the pleasurable aspects of it. Too much indulgence in anything, even sex, undoubtly will have negative consenquences.

To make something as natural as ingesting things to make us feel a sense of euphoria illegal is as futile as trying to make sex illegal. It is a reality that simply must be considered when legislating recreational pleasure.

Once again, as with guns, and really everything, it comes down to personal responsibility and not depending on others to be responsible for us.

I will decide how much I wish to drink or smoke and when. I have never gotten a DUI, (I have not been drunk on liquor for at least ten years, even at home). I raised a son and a daughter to be responsible citizens and am a pillar in my community.

In my youth I mainlined (injected) herion, crank (meth), LSD, coffee, whisky and cold water. I went through a period of excessive drinking. My herion use and addiction to meth yo-yo'd for about four years. This was late 60's early 70's.

When I matured a bit I realized that I did not wish to stay entangled in the lifestyle that illegal hard drug use encompasses. For any who don't know, it is "cloak and dagger" and stab in the back" to the same magnitude that Al Capone and other criminals rose to during prohibition.

I stopped habitual use of all drugs except marijauna.

I understand what risk I was taking (This was before AIDS but there were still plenty of traps) and it is a wonder that I never served time in prison nor died as several of my young friends did. But as luck has it, I have had no lasting ill effects from my bad decision to abuse drugs so harshly. Had I gone to prison for an extended period of time (and I did a lot of this in Mexico where prisons are terrible) my life would have been ruined far more than the actual use of the drugs did.

Legalize. Educate. Promote moderation and a healthy lifestyle. Do not punish people for anything they do to themselves, if what they are doing is really a problem then certainly it should be a health issue and not a criminal issue. When someone uses drugs irresponsibly and cause harm to anyone else then they should be held accountable for their actions regardless of the impetus for what it was they did.

I am old enough to remember when there were no enforced drunk driving laws. I remember hearing of a drunk driver crash and kill someone. Once it was announced that the driver was intoxicated the whole thing was treated as though alcohol was responsible and not so much the driver. Leniancy (sp?) was the norm. Many drunk drivers were even driven home by police officers as though the officers were performing a mandatory public service.

Now, even with alcohol legal, we are begining to hold drunk drivers very accountable for their irresponsible actions. We don't make alcohol illegal. We don't even make it illegal for this particular drunken driver to consume alcohol. Mostly we do not allow them to do the action that caused the tragedy, we don't allow them to drive.

O course even our drinking and driving laws have flaws but it is a much more sensible approach to America's drug problems than kicking in the door of some college student and dragging him off to jail because he is sitting in his room, listening to music, but on LSD........................................:O)