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cds69
October 31st, 2008, 11:06 AM
The mentally handicapped, dimentia patients, etc. How deplorable.

http://www.news10.net/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=49806&catid=2#comments

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/article/20081030/NEWS09/810300395/0/NEWS12

http://www.news10.net/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=49914&catid=2

Booger
October 31st, 2008, 11:40 AM
The mentally handicapped, dimentia patients, etc. How deplorable.

Did you actually read these articles? Talk about grasping at straws.

At any rate, I'll copy one of the posted responses to one of the articles you cited to ride this thread into the trash heap where it belongs:


My elderly neighbor with dementia was held down by two Republican field workers and a space alien and forced to vote for McCain/Palin and then write-in Bozo the Clown for Broadlawns County Hospital Board. Then they made her put lipstick on a pig and send it to Bill Ayers so he could pass it on to Obama. And then you know what else happened?... (just a minute, I have to breathe). Anyway, I have to go but please know that those nasty Republicans are bad people and this incident with my poor neighbor means all of the votes for McCain should be invalidated.

:grin:

cds69
October 31st, 2008, 11:52 AM
Yeah Booger, why should we even care about these people? Maybe we should just euthanize em huh?

Booger
October 31st, 2008, 11:59 AM
Yeah Booger, why should we even care about these people? Maybe we should just euthanize em huh?

No, but we should euthanize this thread.

And by the way, did you even read the articles?

Aspoestertjie
October 31st, 2008, 12:09 PM
Yeah Booger, why should we even care about these people? Maybe we should just euthanize em huh?


That is not what Booger is suggesting at all Cds.

The following paragraph comes out of one of the articles:-

Under Iowa law, residents 18 or older, even people with dementia, generally have the right to vote unless a judge has deemed the person incompetent.

If this is true and they are manipulated into voting for Obama, you might want to agree that those who snooze usually lose.

They saw an opportunity and took it. McCain can do the same, nothing is stopping him.

I don't think a judge will have the time to decide whether each and every mentally disabled person in his county is capable of voting or not.

cds69
October 31st, 2008, 12:28 PM
That is not what Booger is suggesting at all Cds.

The following paragraph comes out of one of the articles:-

Under Iowa law, residents 18 or older, even people with dementia, generally have the right to vote unless a judge has deemed the person incompetent.

If this is true and they are manipulated into voting for Obama, you might want to agree that those who snooze usually lose.

They saw an opportunity and took it. McCain can do the same, nothing is stopping him.

I don't think a judge will have the time to decide whether each and every mentally disabled person in his county is capable of voting or not.

Whoa, hold on. Not in a million years am I saying that these people don't have a right to vote or that their votes should be individually subject to judicial review.

What I'm saying is that it is not up to the caregiver to instigate or manipulate these actions. Would you have the same response if these people had been manipulated into signing wills or powers of attorney?

Booger
October 31st, 2008, 12:32 PM
That is not what Booger is suggesting at all Cds.

The following paragraph comes out of one of the articles:-

Under Iowa law, residents 18 or older, even people with dementia, generally have the right to vote unless a judge has deemed the person incompetent.

Not only that, but from of the articles cds posted:


Clients interviewed by News10 agreed that Simerley [the guy alleged to have "manipulated" disabled people] had allowed them to choose their candidate freely although Simerley filled out the ballots for those who can't read or write. One client said he voted for McCain.

Simerley defends his actions despite complaints..."Our mission is to help these people become valued, respected citizens," he said. "And one of the most important things is to vote."

What a bad guy; helping people with disabilities get involved in the political process. What an A-hole!!

cds69
October 31st, 2008, 12:39 PM
Not only that, but from of the articles cds posted:


Clients interviewed by News10 agreed that Simerley [the guy alleged to have "manipulated" disabled people] had allowed them to choose their candidate freely although Simerley filled out the ballots for those who can't read or write. One client said he voted for McCain.

Simerley defends his actions despite complaints..."Our mission is to help these people become valued, respected citizens," he said. "And one of the most important things is to vote."

What a bad guy; helping people with disabilities get involved in the political process. What an A-hole!!

Yeah, 90% vote one way. I'm sure there was no influence. This is something that should have been done with the involvement of these people's families.

tinkerbell
October 31st, 2008, 12:51 PM
This is something that should have been done with the involvement of these people's families.

Yeah! So they can Manipulate them!

Dionysus
October 31st, 2008, 12:52 PM
That's ********, man. That's like indoctrinating someone from childhood to hold to a certain set of religious precepts without question...

Aspoestertjie
October 31st, 2008, 01:04 PM
Whoa, hold on. Not in a million years am I saying that these people don't have a right to vote or that their votes should be individually subject to judicial review.

What I'm saying is that it is not up to the caregiver to instigate or manipulate these actions. Would you have the same response if these people had been manipulated into signing wills or powers of attorney?

No Cds, I don't for one second say you question the right these people have.

What I am saying is that this scenario can go both ways.

You can also not compare signing wills or powers of attorneys with a ballot. Two totally different things and you know it. I am not even going to debate that.

I am sure if you search hard enough you will come across instances where the McCain camp make themselves guilty of the very same thing.

These people want to be a part of the election process. What I mean with snooz is that the McCain camp is sleeping. They too can try and help these people, but where are they?

I don't know a thing about how campaigns are running in America, but I do know that around here no voting or registering is allowed if not all the political parties are present. Here at least one or two representatives of each political party is present to see that registration and/or voting goes smoothly and that voters are treated fairly.

And do you know what is the scary part? We have at least 7 different parties who we can vote for.

Maybe the problem is not even with the Obama camp, but the whole campaign set up seems to be wrong. I can be wrong, so feel free to correct me if you want.

Booger
October 31st, 2008, 01:20 PM
Yeah, 90% vote one way. I'm sure there was no influence.

OK, cds, let's play. Big election; news coverage everywhere. Caretaker wants disabled adults to feel involved in the political process. Mentally retarded person asks caretaker who he should vote for. Caretaker prefers Obama. Caretaker explains to mentally retarded person why he believes Obama is a better choice. Mentally retarded person votes Obama. One other guy votes McCain. Shame! :tickedoff:


Yeah! So they can Manipulate them!

Touche, my dear.

cds69
October 31st, 2008, 01:28 PM
Yeah! So they can Manipulate them!

Wow, I'm really surprised at the reaction I'm getting here. Do any of you have anyone developmentally handicapped in your family? My cousin has the mentality of probably an eight year old. She's 42. When you have a child, normally you look forward to them growing and learning and become a responsible adult and having a family. But when you have a child that's challenged like this it's like someone stops the clock at some arbitrary point and that's where you stay. My aunt is 60 and looks a dozen years older than that because basically she's been the mother to an eight year old for almost 35 years.

We bitch and debate about "single-issue" voters, but she has a single-issue life. So yes, if anyone gets to have some influence over the votes of these special people, it should be their families.

KevinBrowning
October 31st, 2008, 02:09 PM
The few mentally retarded people I have talked to about the election at work (when they brought it up) said they are voting for McCain-Palin. I don't recall any saying they are voting for Obama, but one said she thinks Obama will win. One lady I talked to about it said that a big reason she's voting Republican is because Palin is such an advocate for disabled children and citizens.

Dr Gonzo
October 31st, 2008, 02:17 PM
Would it be considered deplorable, and news-worthy, if those same people were "manipulated" into voting for McCain?

That would finally, once and for all, show how evil those fear-mongering Republicans really are, right?

Just Me
October 31st, 2008, 03:32 PM
CDS, the title of your thread is very misleading...


Mentally Challenged manipulated into voting for Obama

Take your first link..

Among those voting was Michael Rascon, 56, whose father described him as having the mental capacity of a 5-year-old.

"What kind of people would do this to somebody like that," asked Sam Rascon, who discovered his son had registered and voted only after seeing him with an Obama button last Thursday. "He wouldn't know one candidate from another."

News10 spoke to Michael Rascon at the Thumbs Up! center about the election. When asked which candidate he'd voted for, Rascon answered "the black man." He was unable to remember Obama's name.
Seems the family members are more upset about them voting period..

If you think they are able to vote, are you claiming they lied here?

Clients interviewed by News10 agreed that Simerley had allowed them to choose their candidate freely although Simerley filled out the ballots for those who can't read or write. One client said he voted for McCain.

CDS, I'm with the others in wondering if you even read the articles... Only one article mentioned disabled people being coerced into voting for Obama.. However on the third article you posted it states the following..

The California Republican Party has called for an investigation on organized voting campaigns involving developmentally disabled adults. But Gowan pointed out the staff member who taught the citizenship class at her center is actually a Republican.
Why would a Republican coerce someone to vote for Obama?

Again the article says the same as the first article that they think someone overstepped their boundaries by even registering them to vote in the first place.

So the question should be, did they over step their boundaries by registering them?

Tarja
October 31st, 2008, 08:38 PM
Mentally retarded people may well have the right to vote, but are they able to make an informed decision about who they believe is best? Some may, but others will have no idea - they may not even know what an election is. For those who can still provide an opinion, by all means, take their votes - without coercing them into voting for someone they don't like - but for those people with dementia, I find it rather pointless to get their votes as they may not fully understand the goings on.

cds69
October 31st, 2008, 09:30 PM
CDS, the title of your thread is very misleading...

Take your first link..

Seems the family members are more upset about them voting period..

If you think they are able to vote, are you claiming they lied here?

I said they had the right to, I didn't make a judgement about whether they should or shouldn't.


CDS, I'm with the others in wondering if you even read the articles... Only one article mentioned disabled people being coerced into voting for Obama.. However on the third article you posted it states the following..

Why would a Republican coerce someone to vote for Obama?

Not all Republicans are voting for McCain and not all Democrats are voting for Obama, so that is irrelevant.


Again the article says the same as the first article that they think someone overstepped their boundaries by even registering them to vote in the first place.

So the question should be, did they over step their boundaries by registering them?

If the families of these people expressly gave their consent for employees of the care facility to register and assist these people in casting their votes, then no one should object. But this doesn't seem to be the case.

Just Me
November 1st, 2008, 07:55 AM
I said they had the right to, I didn't make a judgement about whether they should or shouldn't.
So I ask you again, are you claiming that they lied about being able to freely choose who they voted for?




If the families of these people expressly gave their consent for employees of the care facility to register and assist these people in casting their votes, then no one should object. But this doesn't seem to be the case.
Right, I'm not disagreeing with that... But this is not what the title of your thread states... I repeat the title of your thread is misleading..

cds69
November 1st, 2008, 02:39 PM
So I ask you again, are you claiming that they lied about being able to freely choose who they voted for?

I'm sure than many were able to freely choose who they voted for.

My children are 8 and 9. If they were to freely choose who to vote for today, they'd choose McCain. Why? Because I told them Obama will outlaw recess and make candy and ice cream illegal.

Just Me
November 1st, 2008, 03:17 PM
I'm sure than many were able to freely choose who they voted for.

My children are 8 and 9. If they were to freely choose who to vote for today, they'd choose McCain. Why? Because I told them Obama will outlaw recess and make candy and ice cream illegal.

I challenge you to provide proof that this was the case in what's happened here..

Unless I missed something this was not the case, other then a majority in ONE setting voting democrat...

The articles showed that the family was upset about their family member even voting.. Not who they voted for...

cds69
November 2nd, 2008, 06:20 PM
I challenge you to provide proof that this was the case in what's happened here..

Unless I missed something this was not the case, other then a majority in ONE setting voting democrat...

The articles showed that the family was upset about their family member even voting.. Not who they voted for...

LOL, you're serious? One of the stories had an individual who specifically said he was cajoled into voting Obama! If the staff member don't want doubts cast upon them they can cease to engage in something that's clearly the responsiblity of these people's families.

Just Me
November 4th, 2008, 10:57 AM
LOL, you're serious? One of the stories had an individual who specifically said he was cajoled into voting Obama! If the staff member don't want doubts cast upon them they can cease to engage in something that's clearly the responsiblity of these people's families.

Maybe I am blind.. So yes I am serious... Point out where the individual was 'cajoled' into voting for Obama.... Unless I over looked it, not once in any of the three articles did it say that someone was coerced into voting for Obama, instead they were coerced into voting.

One article stated that one group mainly voted democrat, but it does not show that they were coerced into voting democrat. That is the same group that stated they were free to choose who to vote for..

cds69
November 4th, 2008, 11:17 AM
I challenge you to provide proof that this was the case in what's happened here..

Unless I missed something this was not the case, other then a majority in ONE setting voting democrat...

The articles showed that the family was upset about their family member even voting.. Not who they voted for...


I apologize, apparently I didn't post one of the links I originally intended to.

Here it is....

http://www.walb.com/Global/story.asp?s=9177991

Just Me
November 4th, 2008, 12:02 PM
I apologize, apparently I didn't post one of the links I originally intended to.

Here it is....

http://www.walb.com/Global/story.asp?s=9177991
Thank you for correcting your mistake by not posting this link.

Now in this case, I say they are wrong on all accounts by making this individual vote for someone he did not want to vote for.. You showed this happened in one case...

You still have not shown that the following

My children are 8 and 9. If they were to freely choose who to vote for today, they'd choose McCain. Why? Because I told them Obama will outlaw recess and make candy and ice cream illegal.
is an example of what happened in the first article where the majority voted democrat and claimed they were free to vote for whomever they decided to.

Support or retract the claim that this is what happened..