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Slipnish
December 9th, 2004, 06:30 AM
This from an article about "indigo children."

<blockquote>By education and profession, Marsha Baker is a counselor who believes she may be raising two indigos. She tells us most of the world doesn't understand these children who are born with gifts that are different.


"Parents are being confused and looking at it as they're children who aren't fitting in instead of my child has something to teach us," said Baker. "We need to listen to them. We need to adjust to what they need instead of them adjusting to what we need." </blockquote>

http://www.khou.com/news/local/stories/khou041207_mh_upcloseindigokids.1c30cdd0.html

You have to register for the article, but it isn't necessary for my rant here.

WTF?!?!? This woman is a counselot and she's telling us that her children are different in some special way. In the article they refer to the children as acting in some ways like "CEOs" or "royalty." I'm sorry, but HUH?

<blockquote>They come into the world acting like royalty. Other traits of indigos include not fitting in at school, having difficulty with discipline and authority, and they often display symptoms of attention deficit disorder. </blockquote>

At least one shrink in the article did say that perhaps these kids had other problems and refused to recognizethe indigo thing, but damn ya'll. Where has common sense gone?

I am eternally reminded of the Ritlout episode of South Park where the researcher goes over to the three kids raising hell in the school setting. Each one jabbering and talking and bouncing up and down, til he smacks the first one and yells at him/her to, "Sit down and study!" He does the same to the second child who begins to cry, then he thumps that one again telling it to, "Be quiet, and study!" By the time he gets to the third child, he picks up his book on his own, and begins to quietly read after a few nervous glances at the researcher.

It ain't rocket science folks, and I will be damned if I let a child run my house. Some conformity is a good thing. We need rules and things to get along. Don't we? What are the parents in this article gonna end up with for kids?

Thoughts?

chadn737
December 9th, 2004, 06:41 AM
Let her ruin her children's lives, I get a real perverce kick out of seeing spoiled brats when thye have to deal with reality. :evil:

Dionysus
December 9th, 2004, 07:46 AM
Indeed. I love my children more than anything, but I'll be damned if I'll sit back and let them act like idiots because it may "limit their creativity". If you let your kids treat you with ANY disrespect or with little regard for your feelings and properties they'll go into the real world as adults thinking that strangers will treat their behavior with the same passivity. Any parent that refuses to utilize strong and definitive corrective measures when applying dicipline in response to disrepectful behaviors is doing a disservice to their kids because they real world will not be so kind. Those kids will get eaten alive and they won't even know why.

ShadowKnight
December 9th, 2004, 07:48 AM
well, i hope she has fun after they start raising hell in the years to come.

KevinBrowning
December 9th, 2004, 07:49 AM
<blockquote>They come into the world acting like royalty. Other traits of indigos include not fitting in at school, having difficulty with discipline and authority, and they often display symptoms of attention deficit disorder. </blockquote>

Right. So being spoiled is a mental disorder, but being sexually attracted to members of your own gender isn't. The modern mental health community must have some real geniuses.

chadn737
December 9th, 2004, 08:26 AM
This from an article about "indigo children."

Heh, when I first read "indigo children" I thought this would be about purpled colored kids, how disappointing. :(

KevinBrowning
December 9th, 2004, 08:30 AM
Heh, when I first read "indigo children" I thought this would be about purpled colored kids, how disappointing. :(

You racist, they're called Violet-Americans.

HappyLady
December 9th, 2004, 08:40 AM
Somewhere along the way, it became unacceptable for a parent to be a parent and they became required to be a friend.

I notice that a lot of kids these days are largely unsupervised. (It is one of the reasons I think stay-at-home-parentdom is a NECESSITY and not a LUXURY. I don't know why so many parents today don't understand that their responsibility to their child is primarily to raise a responsible adult. Yeah, we want our kids to love us, but I think so many parents focus on trying to a well-liked parent that they throw being a GOOD parent out the window.

I have been wanting to start a Spanking vs. Positive Parenting debate here for some time, but didn't think it would get much feedback because there don't appear to be any "positive parenters" here. I can make a great case for positive parenting and how it never necessary to "punish" your child, but quite frankly, I'd simply be playing devil's advocate because I just don't buy it. In order to guide, punishment is necessary. And we can "tell" our kids until we're blue in the face why their actions were wrong, and for some that will work. But for authority resistant children, it requires quick and deliberate force.

Parents need to learn that, sometimes you have to stoop to your kid's level and speak their language instead of expecting them to rise to the adult level understand their language.

chadn737
December 9th, 2004, 08:53 AM
I have been wanting to start a Spanking vs. Positive Parenting debate here for some time, but didn't think it would get much feedback because there don't appear to be any "positive parenters" here. I can make a great case for positive parenting and how it never necessary to "punish" your child, but quite frankly, I'd simply be playing devil's advocate because I just don't buy it. In order to guide, punishment is necessary. And we can "tell" our kids until we're blue in the face why their actions were wrong, and for some that will work. But for authority resistant children, it requires quick and deliberate force.

Parents need to learn that, sometimes you have to stoop to your kid's level and speak their language instead of expecting them to rise to the adult level understand their language.

I feel that spanking has been a "positive" influence on my life. At times it was the only thing that worked, I never did respond to the whole "you're grounded" routine. I mean big deal, I live in the country, its not as if I had anywhere else to go.

KevinBrowning
December 9th, 2004, 08:55 AM
I was a hellion as child, and my parents never spanked me. I must say I'm thankful, I feel it would have only worsened my behavior.

Zhavric
December 9th, 2004, 09:02 AM
I'm going to talk geek here for a second. I believe two disctinctly seperate parts of human psyche: Wisdom and Intelligence.

By Intelligence, I am refering to raw problem solving ability and natural skill at crunching numbers / thinking one's way out of a sitation / reasoning a puzzle / etc.

By Wisdom, I am referring to experience and one's ability to draw from one's experiences.

The truly talented among us are those gifted with impressive problem solving skills (Intelligence) and a diversity of life events that brings different perspectives (and wisdom).

It has been my experience that adults have a lot of trouble estimating the wisdom and intelligence of kids. The most common mistake I see is adults assuming kids are neither intelligent NOR wise. I would agree that most children are not wise, but I believe it is the case that many children are HIGHLY intelligent and posses raw problem solving skills on par with adults.

It sounds like the adults dealing with these so-called "indigo" kids are attributing great wisdom to the youngsters.

I believe that properly interacting with kids involves instilling wisdom (which involves telling them "No!") while respecting their intelligence.

EDIT: Criminy! That will teach me to start reply number 2 of a thread before lunch and try to come back to it after lunch.

Fyshhed
December 9th, 2004, 09:08 AM
Right. So being spoiled is a mental disorder, but being sexually attracted to members of your own gender isn't. The modern mental health community must have some real geniuses.
Being spoiled ISN'T the mental disorder. I think you would do well to sign up for a basic psychology course next semester ;)

But until then, take a moment to educate yourself before you say something that makes you look foolish :D
http://www.metagifted.org/topics/metagifted/indigo/introduction.html

Indigo Children are the current generation being born today and most of those who are 8 years old or younger. They are different. They have very unique characteristics that set them apart from previous generations of children. The name itself indicates the Life Color they carry in their auras and is indicative of the Third Eye Chakra, which represents intuition and psychic ability. These are the children who are often rebellious to authority, nonconformist, extremely emotionally and sometimes physically sensitive or fragile, highly talented or academically gifted and often metaphysically gifted as well, usually intuitive, very often labeled ADD, either very empathic and compassionate OR very cold and callous, and are wise beyond their years. Does this sound like yourself or your child?

According to this description, it turns out I'm pretty clearly an Indigo child. Whatever. For kicks, here's another description...
http://www.innerself.com/Parenting/indigo_children.htm

Indigos process their emotions differently than non Indigos because they have high self-esteem and strong integrity. They can read you like an open book and quickly notice and neutralize any hidden agendas or attempts to manipulate them, however subtly. In fact, they can see your hidden agendas even if you can't! They have inherently strong determination to work things through for themselves and only want outside guidance if it's presented to them with respect and within a format of true choice. They prefer to work situations out for themselves.

They come in with their intentions and gifts easily identifiable from birth. They can suck up knowledge like a sponge, especially if they like or are drawn to a subject, which makes them very advanced in their areas of interest. Experiencing life helps them learn best, so they create the experiences they need to help them with their current problem or area where they need to grow. They respond best when treated like a respected adult.

Not only are they masters at intuitively picking up on hidden agendas or motives, but they are equally masterful at turning those agendas back onto the people using them, especially their parents. Psychological "button pushing" often causes them to be labeled as nonconformists. If they notice that there is a hidden motive behind your attempt to get them to do something, they will resist strongly and feel perfectly justified in doing so. From their point of view, if you're not doing your work in the relationship, they can challenge you on it.

When I called them good "button pushers" what I really meant is that they're working with us adults to help us recognize where we are holding and using old, subtle patterns to manipulate them, which used to work but will no longer. So if you are constantly getting resistance from an Indigo, check yourself first. They may be holding up a mirror for you, or be asking you, in a nonconformist way, for help in finding new boundaries, fine-tuning their own skills or talents, or going to the next level of growth.

Indigos have innate healing abilities that are usually already active; however, they may not know that they are using them! The most spectacular thing I observed was how they formed groups, adjusting and spacing themselves, especially around another child who might have been sick or upset sitting and blending their energy field with that child's. Most often, they paired up one on one, but sometimes they formed groups and sat in either a triangular or diamond-shaped pattern. It wasn't done in an obvious way, but very subtly. When finished, they were off to something else.

It was amazing. They just did it, but they didn't want to discuss it; in some cases, they weren't even consciously aware of what they were doing or why! It was so natural to them that if a child needed something from the Indigos, they just went and sat next to them for a while, not even necessarily talking, and then they separated.

Another interesting thing was that, off and on throughout the year, the Indigos went through periods of attracting and repelling each other, or periods of really needing each other's company and then of not needing it. I'm not totally clear on this, but it seems to coincide with individual personal development. The closeness and concern they had for each other was never lost during those periods of separation, but they wouldn't go back together, either, until all was right for them.


Aside from the weird claim of spiritual healing (Skeptic alert: smells like Bullsh-t) it's a pretty specific personality type. I highly doubt they're all geniuses, or psychics or anything.
[This topic -->]http://img7.exs.cx/img7/6452/bull9rc.jpg

Fyshhed
December 9th, 2004, 09:18 AM
I feel that spanking has been a "positive" influence on my life. At times it was the only thing that worked, I never did respond to the whole "you're grounded" routine. I mean big deal, I live in the country, its not as if I had anywhere else to go.
I was always indignant about being spanked, which is why I was only spanked once to my knowledge. I was arguably the most difficult to control child in my family. I was talking my parents out of punishment when I was 6 (unleash logic attack: now!) I always thought of myself as a mini-adult, or just a plain adult. My childhood had its fun points, but not the kind of innocence people like in their kids. I was making, breaking, and bending rules the entire time i was in school.

And where I have ended up is where I think I should have. No complaints for now.

I've decided when I start parenting, that I am going to follow the logical philosophy. "No, and this is why. ___"

In my experience, "Because I said so" comes out as "I don't have a reason, so disobey me all you want." Which I did. And I would expect my kids to do.

ShadowKnight
December 9th, 2004, 09:23 AM
To be honest, my parents are not that brilliant, i felt that i could outsmart them when i was young and i did so very often. yet, talking was never enough for me, i would break so many rules, it seemed i would never change. i was a stubborn one, and spanking did help, yes, i often tried to get out of it, but that didn't work all the time ;) i think it is necessary, but not always.

Ibelsd
December 9th, 2004, 09:23 AM
There is a way to discipline without using physical violence. Spanking is great when the child is too young to understand verbal communication. When the child is able to understand through verbalization, then the parent should no longer need spanking. If your child is ten years old, and you are still spanking him/her, maybe it is time to reassess your methodology. It makes me think of some reality show I was watching. The father, mother, and two children were sitting at a table. The boy hit his sister. The father smacked him in the face, and yelled, "We don't hit!" What kind of a mixed message is that?

The woman and her indigo children is another extreme. Obviously, parents who attempt to befriend their chidlren are likely to be failures. I have taught these types of children. They have to practically be segregated from everyone else due to their disruptive behavior. Unfortunately, the parents are of little help since they are not consistent at home. This is why public school is losing its value. We cannot keep forcing teachers to treat all children equally. Too many kids are getting hurt by being forced to deal with the emotional troubles of their peers. Teachers are asked to perform as counselors and psychologists. It is ridiculous.

We can thank all of the PC defenders and ACLU hams. Thanks to their overzealous support of all things ridiculous, we now have generations growing up who have little concept of responsibility or accountability. We cannot call kids unteachable. We cannot demand parents discipline. They get to run around like monkeys with little recourse. When I was working with developmentally disabled adults, we would call them patients. Then, we were told to call them clients. That was seen as more respectful. Then we were told clients was no longer appropriate. We had to start referring to them as consumers. What a farce. The emotionally disturbed children I taught were managed with kid gloves. A girl once knocked all the items off of my desk in a fit of rage. I punished her by holding her back from a fieldtrip scheduled for later that day. The counselor reprimanded me because I had not explicity stated that knocking things off of my desk was a rule violation. She almost overturned the consequence I had given the girl. I practically had to plead with the counselor to let the punishment stand. Simply insane. She never knocked another item off of my desk. I had an autistic boy who had a habit of acting out by ignoring others. He hid behind his autism which was fairly mild. The counselors refused to act on his behavior, blaming his disorder. After a few months, I decided on an action. I told everyone in class to ignore him for the remainder of the day. Everyone ignored him for several hours. He got upset and I asked him to cool down in the hallway. He went out in the hallway for about a half hour and came back in and appologized and was crying. The next day he complimented my TA, noting how nice her coat was. For anyone who is unaware of what autism is, this was a huge breakthrough. All he needed was someone to get tough with him and stop babying him. He was back in public school a month or two later.

Kids don't need adults to be friends. They need adults to act like adults.

FruitandNut
December 9th, 2004, 12:37 PM
So long as the adults are friendy and supportive to a sensible level, I am in total agreement with you, Ibby. Often if you ask kids they will say that they need to have their social identity, that they are not adults with adult responsibilies and they do not see adults as featuring comfortably among their peer group of friends.
Adults, particularly parents, who act up like kids in front of their friends are just an embarrassment.

During a seminar group with a lot of female social workers, the unanimous consensus was that PC has gone much too far and is rapidly becoming a social tyranny.

ps. Slippy, most kids come into the world and demand. It is nature's way of maximising their survival chances. It is the adult responsibility to change those darling little tyrants into responsible law abiding citizens - Hell, I never said life was easy.

Slipnish
December 9th, 2004, 01:13 PM
Being spoiled ISN'T the mental disorder. I think you would do well to sign up for a basic psychology course next semester ;)

But until then, take a moment to educate yourself before you say something that makes you look foolish :D
http://www.metagifted.org/topics/metagifted/indigo/introduction.html


According to this description, it turns out I'm pretty clearly an Indigo child. Whatever. For kicks, here's another description...
http://www.innerself.com/Parenting/indigo_children.htm


Aside from the weird claim of spiritual healing (Skeptic alert: smells like Bullsh-t) it's a pretty specific personality type. I highly doubt they're all geniuses, or psychics or anything.
[This topic -->]http://img7.exs.cx/img7/6452/bull9rc.jpg

:lol: ROFL. :lol: I agree with your sentiment, but the overall sensationalism and the parental byline of just letting the child be a spoiled little sh*t, is killing me.

I suspect a tiny fad or trend here that will soon pass, largely unnoticed by the rest of the world with the possible exception of California, where anything is possible.

At any rate, my rant is more in line with the lack of discernment of the parents who want to label their child as something different, as if that gives the little cretin the right to be a snot, than deal with the behaviors of the child and encourage his/her gift or difference, intelligence, creativity, whatever...

Slipnish
December 9th, 2004, 01:15 PM
ps. Slippy, most kids come into the world and demand. It is nature's way of maximising their survival chances. It is the adult responsibility to change those darling little tyrants into responsible law abiding citizens - Hell, I never said life was easy.

:lol:

I hear ya. People talk about the terrible twos, but both of mine were angels at two. AT three however, I was hunting up numbers for exorcists. :lol:

tinkerbell
December 9th, 2004, 03:21 PM
I feel that spanking has been a "positive" influence on my life.


ME TOO!!!!!!..ooooppps wrong thread

chadn737
December 9th, 2004, 04:10 PM
ME TOO!!!!!!..ooooppps wrong thread

hmmmmm........ /\ :evil:

Slipnish
December 10th, 2004, 05:26 AM
Hmmm. A girl named Tnkerbell saying that spanking is a positive. Why does the conjure up images so NOT related to this thread?

FruitandNut
December 11th, 2004, 01:18 AM
Because you are a pervert, perchance, Slippy?

Spankings are more fun with chains, handcuffs, whips and rubber gear - oops, see what you mean Tinks - mind you it could cause some confusion and frighten the little mites into keeping quiet.

Slipnish
December 11th, 2004, 05:46 PM
Because you are a pervert, perchance, Slippy?

Spankings are more fun with chains, handcuffs, whips and rubber gear - oops, see what you mean Tinks - mind you it could cause some confusion and frighten the little mites into keeping quiet.

I thought spanking was more of a British thing than American. Well, that and transvstism. :p :* :lol:

At any rate...Yep, I'm a perv. But a manly one. No, really. Very manly. No question at all. None really. Don't know why you brought it up...

KevinBrowning
December 11th, 2004, 06:16 PM
ME TOO!!!!!!..ooooppps wrong thread

Haha, that is so bad.