The issue of works and deeds

[Jordan]

In this thread I will clarify the catholic teaching on the importance of works and deeds.

When the issue of works is brought up, the verse that protestants immediatley bring up is ephesians 2:8-9. Now this does seems to have a valid point against works, but what is left out is verse 10 of ephesians.


10For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

In the book of James, it is also important to work out your faith;


Faith and Deeds

14What good is it, my brothers, if a man claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save him? 15Suppose a brother or sister is without clothes and daily food. 16If one of you says to him, "Go, I wish you well; keep warm and well fed," but does nothing about his physical needs, what good is it? 17In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is .
18But someone will say, “You have faith; I have deeds.”
Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by what I do.
19You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that–and shudder.
20You foolish man, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless[1] ? 21Was not our ancestor Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? 22You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did. 23And the scripture was fulfilled that says, "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,"[2] and he was called God's friend. 24You see that a person is justified by what he does and not by faith alone.
25In the same way, was not even Rahab the considered righteous for what she did when she gave lodging to the spies and sent them off in a different direction? 26As the body without the spirit is , so faith without deeds is .


James 2:14-26

[Chris]

IMO, you could add Matt 25:31-46, The "Sheep & Goats" parable. There we see those cast into H*ll, not for lack of faith, but for failing to clothe the naked, feed the hungry, give drink to the thirsty, etc.

[Apokalupsis]

Our "works" are the visable sign (or result) of our faith. It is our faith that saves. This faith, is not simply "believing that Jesus is God and is the savior"...even Satan believes this. But he does not place his faith in Jesus...he does not follow Jesus.

If we follow Jesus, our actions will be seen as the sign of our following...they are the RESULT of faith. Works won't get us into heaven, our faith in Christ will.

If we claim to have faith, but merely show up on the occasional Sunday, not helping the poor, being an example, spreading the word (all that Jesus said to do)...we obviously are not involved in works....and this is a sign that our faith is dead (that we don't really have faith).

Faith saves, works is the result or sign, of our faith. Works do not save...they are the evidence OF faith...not the necessary variable of salvation.

[Chris]

But in Matt 25, the "goats" clearly call Jesus "Lord", it's not that they did not have faith, it's that they failed to do the works that condemn them. To be clear, the Catholic Church teaches Faith and Works. We do not believe works can have any salvific value absent faith.

I'd be curious to see scripture quotes to support the position that one must have works as a proof of faith. Certainly God does not need to see our works to know whether or not we have faith, He can see into our hearts.

[CC]

didn't someone in here (apok?) state basically that good deeds are not proof of faith, only a symbol of faith? (my words, not his).........:O)

[Jordan]

Faith saves, works is the result or sign, of our faith. Works do not save...they are the evidence OF faith...not the necessary variable of salvation.

We aren't saved by faith alone, as I have already quoted scripture.

[KevinBrowning]

Faith is all one needs to be saved by our Lord Jesus Christ. Good works are the obvious and visible sign of a true and sincere faith. However, a certain requirement of works are not a necessity for salvation, as it is Christ's sacrifice that saves us from Hell, and not anything we may do on our own.

[Chris]

Faith is all one needs to be saved by our Lord Jesus Christ. Good works are the obvious and visible sign of a true and sincere faith. However, a certain requirement of works are not a necessity for salvation, as it is Christ's sacrifice that saves us from Hell, and not anything we may do on our own.
And yet Christ states in scripture that He will send to H*ll those who do not feed the hungry, give drink to the thirsty, clothe the naked, comfort the sick and jailed...

[KevinBrowning]

Where does Scripture state that Christ will send to Hell those who do not meet certain behavioral requirements? I've read that any man, no matter how horrible, may be saved through true repentance, by the mercy of our Lord Christ Jesus. I'm not disputing the fact that good works are the expected and inevitable result of one's soul being saved.

[Chris]

Where does Scripture state that Christ will send to Hell those who do not meet certain behavioral requirements? I've read that any man, no matter how horrible, may be saved through true repentance, by the mercy of our Lord Christ Jesus. I'm not disputing the fact that good works are the expected and inevitable result of one's soul being saved.


31"When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory. 32All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.
34"Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.'
37"Then the righteous will answer him, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?'
40"The King will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.'
41"Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.'
44"They also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?'
45"He will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.'
46"Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."

[Jordan]

Can't argue against the book now can you? :)