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Iluvatar
February 13th, 2005, 08:31 AM
Fruitandnut, Fyshhed, and myself have decided upon these 5 poems as the top 5.

Your own Maze - Iluvatar

Sometimes the ones you trust,
will twist and cut you down,
behind your back they bleed you,
and force their shame-wrought crown.

The ones you thought were wise,
the kind and earnest men,
can wait for your backside,
to slash and to condemn.

Those faceless petty comments,
no harm, a fang-less snake;
across a year, a cumulative build,
the nothings bend to break.

It's hard to step out from
the anger in which you bask;
to take the second angle,
indeed, a difficult task.

It's true, there is no exit,
so rise above the path
don't sit within your maze
a-stew within your wrath.

Remember how you were,
and how you soon shall be,
to float above your ashes,
this, your only key.

When you fell like ethereal dirt,
betrayers within the haze,
you lift atop your enemy,
absurdly in the maze.

He still fights his shadow
within those hedge lined walls.
Laugh as he searches for you,
hear his frustrated calls.

For you've left that realm behind,
gaze at, with amused contempt,
by what your were once held,
which would now fail any attempt.

So remember this my friend,
when trapped, set yourself aloof,
for your mindset is your jailer,
but a prison with no roof.



The Brave Day - HappyLady

Ratty blonde hair and her socks don’t match
Her pants are too small and her shoes are ripped
Her melon colored top has three big stains
Chocolate, paint, and…

“I’m going out to play,” and the door slams shut.
No jacket. No plan. No toys. No friends.
Just two hours left of a spring soaked day
Trees, mud, and…

She leans on a tree and peels the bark back
Studies the spiders and a tiny green worm
Cuts the worm in half with a dull skinny twig
Blood, grin, and…

She stomps her feet in a heap of mud
“This will make her mad and I don’t care.”
Her hands ball up into little rock fists
Blood, grin, and…

She climbs the tree and the world falls away
Shuts her eyes tight and the wind clears her head.
No mother. No belt. No closet. No screams.
Quiet, free, and…

The sun sinks low and “Time to come in!”
She hugs the branch then hits the ground hard
Thought she’d be brave but can't feel it now
Mud, fear, and…


Insane! - Vance101
See thos clocks? They make that sound...
See that light, they burn to BRIGHT!
I look around, not one stir,
Afraid?
Na, of course not SIR!
i begin to think, i begin to studder!
the chills roll down my spine
hands shake, i start to figet.
Why does no one talk and stare?!
As if im diffrent, or i have no....reason for being there!?
"Forget it" I said, in a studdering twist,
Softly the clog in my neck begins to thicken.
It starts to rise, talk is hard.
Air becomes scarse,
Sweat is cold.
'What do i do?!' i thought to myself,
i look at the wall...
i tuch the small imperfections in its paint, as a man stares at me...
I stop abruptly, and turn vastly to my seat.
Hands on my head! I begin to shake!
WHY IS HE NOT HERE?!
I knock down the vase jump on the tabel, and scream,
"You FOOLISH PEOPLE ARE ONLY A DREAM!!!!!!"
"NOW!" I say in a twisted and crazed voice,
"Who is in the power of the creators choice!?"
But not one man nor woman stirs...
"What?! do you have something on me Sirs?!"
But not one movment, nor sound nor thought. All i hear is that DAMNED CLOCK!
6 Past 7, is speak softly in my head.
The day is done, and time for bed.
A crazed look, and a insane STIR!
I walk right out that door.
Hear a bang?!
Bah! Nothing, no one can hear you, nothing is comming...


An old warrior remembers. (HMS Warspite) - FruitAndNut

I was known as a lucky ship by my admiring crews,
from Jutland to Normandy, steady turned my four bronzed screws.
Though heavy shells wrought havoc to armoured plate and flesh,
with flame licked companionway and smoke scarred seamen's mess,
my eight big guns would defiantly give an answering address.

In Narvik's frozen fjord, the Kriegsmarine's sheltering den.
there I sank her finest, oh pity for the men!
Cape Matapan saw my record for hits of longest range,
full twentysix thousand yards, that was our watery stage,
the Italian Navy bore the evidence, and struggled to disengage.

Bardia heard my broadsided roar that blasted Rommel's tanks,
while Tommy in his shell torn trench offered a silent thanks.
Then across the broad Atlantic, like a sheepdog fussing sheep,
with Walrus flying overhead, and sonar's trusty bleep,
I protected convoys from the dangers of the deep.

My duty now over, a long tow for scrap did start,
'til a heavy sea, in the lee of Cornwall's edge, did part.
Now I lie here rusting, near coastline's rocky shore,
sheltering many schools and shoals from denizen's fearsome maw:
a chartered boat comes out to fish, I'm serving man once more.


DripDripDrip - SteerPikePie
Drip Drip Drip
The blood falls from my mighty sword
Upon the snowy ground
The beating of my warrior heart
Abounds in thunderous sounds

The babe is dead
I did the deed
A thousand babies cry
My sword is sharp
Their flesh is torn
More babes' blood for I

I drink their blood
It tastes so sweet
Like honey upon the moor
It falls from my lips
Dribbles upon the floor

For Odin! For Thor!
My sword does slash
My hammer falls from the sky
To venerate the gods
To celebrate Valhalla
I turn the babes to mash

Like lighting I strike
Like thunder I crash
The heads of my enemies in
The Goblins and the Dragons
And the Celts upon the Wagons
And even the feisty Moor

Drip Drip Drip
My sword quivers
Anticipation is its name
Never to be sheathed
It is born for action
Upon this wintry day
I lick the blood from its wet blade
And smile for all to see
All shall run from the danger to come
And the danger my friend is me.


These are in no specific order.

We judges have made our best attempt to be impartial. That's why there are three of us. Anyone can vote, even those who didn't submit, or have not done anything in the writing forum.

Also, a note to those who didn't make top 5, there were a number of poems that were very close, and didn't make it by only the slimmest of margins.

That said, may the best poet win. :)

Poll closes on Friday.

vance101
February 13th, 2005, 09:36 AM
oh great, "Insane" got in, i was hopeing the other one was, all well, maby people will like that one better (no idea why...)

HappyLady
February 13th, 2005, 02:08 PM
oh great, "Insane" got in, i was hopeing the other one was, all well, maby people will like that one better (no idea why...)

Yeah, I thought my other one was better than the one that was chosen, too. I guess it's harder to be objective about your own stuff and it depends on the audience. (My first submission was kind of a "chick poem" I guess...lol.)

My vote is in. I did not vote for myself...due to the Cheese Factor. (I think it's cheesy to vote for yourself...unless you really think yours is best, I guess. But I think it's hard to be objective about your own stuff.) Anyway, are we allowed to talk about it? I voted for F & N (no offense to anyone else). I am not usually a fan of ballads, but his imagery and theme were very well composed and I felt his poem outsurpassed the quality of the others, including mine. I find myself wondering why he hasn't tried to publish his work. Well? F&N..why haven't you?

And vance...for future poetry submissions, I am volunteering to edit for you (just spelling and grammar). :) I think I would enjoy your work more if I could understand what it is you are actually trying to say. ;)

vance101
February 13th, 2005, 08:19 PM
Lol, belive it or not, i actualy spell checked the other one cause i truly thought that one was much better, and dident even bother with the other one. But i guess beggars cant be choosers eh?

KevinBrowning
February 13th, 2005, 09:44 PM
I voted for F&N, very interesting blend of history and rhyme. Luv, I liked yours as well, but it seemed a bit too vague, aside from being about internal turmoil of some sort. HL, I also liked yours, but again, it seemed too vague. I assumed it's about child abuse or something. Steerpike, I just wasn't into the whole baby-killing theme. And Vance, I couldn't read yours, too distracting with all the spelling errors. Good effort though, everyone.

FruitandNut
February 14th, 2005, 12:26 AM
My vote is in. I did not vote for myself...due to the Cheese Factor. (I think it's cheesy to vote for yourself...unless you really think yours is best, I guess. But I think it's hard to be objective about your own stuff.) Anyway, are we allowed to talk about it? I voted for F & N (no offense to anyone else). I am not usually a fan of ballads, but his imagery and theme were very well composed and I felt his poem outsurpassed the quality of the others, including mine. I find myself wondering why he hasn't tried to publish his work. Well? F&N..why haven't you?

I go with your thoughts on voting for yourself, HL. I never even voted for myself in the primary judging How can you be objective about a baby you gave birth to? You either reject it, or you love it unconditionally; it is rare thing for a view of your own work to be balanced and 'rational'. I always have an uneasy feeling about politicians smiling to the camera, as they post a vote for themselves in the 'ballot box', at least modern electronics may eventually do away with us having to see that little self-indulgent orgy.

As for your question, why don't I publish? Well, I have been asked this one before, by people that have included a successful author and an Eng. Lit. prof. The truth is that after reading many books containing excellent stories, prose and poetry, I don't think my stuff quite makes the grade.

Iluvatar
February 14th, 2005, 02:25 AM
I don't think my stuff quite makes the grade.I think that your are quite nuts. I would recommend trying it anyways, for you have nothing to lose from it. Your stuff is pretty good.

As for voting, I think I can be pretty honest about my own work. In this case, I thought mine was pretty good, but there were a couple that were better than mine, so I voted for one of them.

So, ODN Polls usually max out around 17 people having voted. This could still go any way. :)

FruitandNut
February 14th, 2005, 03:15 AM
Geeee, I must have been tired or having a senior moment with that last posting, I have spotted four errors now that I have woken up a bit!!! - Zapped the little blighters!

steerpikepie
February 14th, 2005, 10:28 AM
I voted for steerpikepie. His poem made me think on the good old days of Vikings and swords dripping with the blood of innocents. I think I have honored the old Gods, my ancestors and their ways. Yes, their ways were bloody, and not always pretty to an outsider, but they are our Ancient ways and they are to be remembered with pride. If you are not of Viking stock, I can see how this poem might scare you. But rest assured even though the old ways are the ways preferred by the Gods, we are not strong enough in numbers to start the whole baby killing thing again yet.

If I had edited it for people to not feel scared or have their ancestral memories shaken by the memories of my ancestors, then I would have not honored Thor properly.

For me, the honor is in the poem, the nomination is nice, but winning is not important.

Now, what a nice post, give me green boxes or I'll get Anticipation!

Snoop
February 14th, 2005, 10:34 AM
Now, what a nice post, give me green boxes or I'll get Anticipation!
You can't get anticipation - it's not a noun. Did Thor really speak English?

steerpikepie
February 14th, 2005, 10:49 AM
Oh snoopy, you didn't even read steerpikepie's poem, it makes him very sad. Anticipation is indeed a noun and a proper one at that. I could write in the language of Thor, but I don't want to show it to the eyes of those who don't even read English when it is in poem form, and therefore don't know the name of my sword. :(

Iluvatar
February 14th, 2005, 10:59 AM
Ah well, SPP seems to have gone a bit off the edge. I think the subject of the poem is pretty horrible, and anyone who finds it to be something worth honoring/ looking forward to should seek a bit of help. Otherwise, though, it's very well written, and historically accurate. It beautifully displays an emotion that has (thankfully) left modern society.

steerpikepie
February 14th, 2005, 12:44 PM
Iluvatar: You are making a value judgment on whether it is horrible or not. Steerpikpie did not go over the top. There are many out there who feel like Steerpikepie, and are turning back to the old ways. Are Ireland and Vikingland not part of modern society? Steerpikepie is now both Christian and Viking, but leaning more towards his sacred Viking roots everyday. Steerpikepie is not only descended from the Gods, Steerpikepie is God.

Steerpikepie shall soon grace the patrons of ODN with another poem: An Ode to Woad. In this poem he shall go over the top, because you kinda have to ;)

Snoop
February 14th, 2005, 12:50 PM
Oh snoopy, you didn't even read steerpikepie's poem, it makes him very sad. Anticipation is indeed a noun and a proper one at that. I could write in the language of Thor, but I don't want to show it to the eyes of those who don't even read English when it is in poem form, and therefore don't know the name of my sword. :(
I stand corrected. Anticipation is indeed a noun: Quick definitions (Anticipation)


noun: something expected (as on the basis of a norm) (Example: "Each of them had their own anticipations")
noun: pleasurable expectation
noun: some early entity whose type or style anticipates a later one (Example: "There were many anticipations of Darwinian theory")
noun: wishing with confidence of fulfillment
noun: the act of predicting (as by reasoning about the future)

All of these definitions apply to you - a proper person.

steerpikepie
February 14th, 2005, 12:56 PM
You still haven't read the poem, have you buddy?

Snoop
February 14th, 2005, 12:59 PM
You still haven't read the poem, have you buddy? I did read it. You happy now?

steerpikepie
February 14th, 2005, 01:37 PM
Steerpikepie will be happy once you recognize that Anticipation in the sense used by Steerpikepie is a noun, a proper one which is why he capitalizes it.

Xanadu Moo
February 14th, 2005, 02:57 PM
One that didn't even show up, I would have voted for. But of those listed, I thought "An Old Warrior Remembers" stood out from the rest. It just reads like a "real" poem (whatever that is). I don't know how to define it, but I know it when I see it.

Did five poems seem like a low number to choose from? I realize much higher and winner-take-all vote could get diluted, but maybe if there was a qualifying voting round by readers before the final round. Just a thought. I don't think Henry David Thoreau would approve of making it more complicated, but somewhere there's a happy medium. Could we vote for our top three, in order (or not), in an earlier round?

FruitandNut
February 14th, 2005, 03:00 PM
Steerpikepie - 'anticipation' is a common noun, it is not usually capitalised except at the beginning of a sentence.

WordWeb Online.
Noun:anticipation.

1/ Pleasurable expectation.
2/ Something expected.
3/ The art of predicting.
4/ Some early entity whose type or style anticipates a later one.
5/ Wishing with confidence of fulfilment.

Iluvatar
February 14th, 2005, 03:17 PM
F&N, I believe that he was using it as a name. SOme people name their kids after descriptive nouns, he named his sword as such. His sword is named "Anticipation", just as KA's sword was "Excaliber" and my sword is "Blue Sword of the Monkey (enchant:+2 attack)"

steerpikepie
February 14th, 2005, 03:26 PM
Thanks Iluvatar I was getting worried about these chaps. Nice to know you took the time to not only read, but comprehend. Kudos!

Iluvatar
February 14th, 2005, 03:26 PM
PS. SPP, depending on how violent your new poem is, it may be deleted. Bear that in mind. This one is somewhat close, but if it gets too gruesome, it may have to be removed. I will try to grant you as much artistic license as possible, so don't go too far.

HappyLady
February 14th, 2005, 03:57 PM
One that didn't even show up, I would have voted for. But of those listed, I thought "An Old Warrior Remembers" stood out from the rest. It just reads like a "real" poem (whatever that is). I don't know how to define it, but I know it when I see it.

I understand what you mean. It had vivid imagery, great meter, and was much better than the other choices.


Did five poems seem like a low number to choose from? I realize much higher and winner-take-all vote could get diluted, but maybe if there was a qualifying voting round by readers before the final round. Just a thought. I don't think Henry David Thoreau would approve of making it more complicated, but somewhere there's a happy medium. Could we vote for our top three, in order (or not), in an earlier round?

I agree that there should be a different way of picking the poems to vote on. The one of mine that made it in, I thought was clever...but it was inferior to emotion and vivid imagery of my other submission. I am surprised anyone even voted for The Brave Day. I put it in there just so that I could have two submissions instead of one. But really, it is inferior to my other one and some others that did not make the vote. (I guess this isn't helping my chances of it getting picked, huh...lol.)

The only poem that is in the top 5 that I would have picked to be there was F&N's. I am glad I thought his was the best overall or else I probably just wouldn't have voted at all. I thought there were much better poems than the ones that were chosen, even by the some of the same authors.

So, Iluvatar, is there a different way we can do the judging next time so the public gets more choice in the matter? Maybe do it like the DOM and every poem that gets two nominations (or 3 or something like that) goes on to the big vote. That way, everyone would get more say in the matter. What do you think?

Iluvatar
February 14th, 2005, 04:08 PM
Hmm...That's an interesting idea, HL. Hypothetically, we wouldn't need to do submission, just nominate any poem posted in the last month. The only worry there is that we wouldn't have much participation, as we'd get only a few poems to choose from.

I think if we did that, we could have it run like this:
All peoms must be in the submission thread to be entered. You can submit up to three, but to make it to the final vote, it needs at least one seconding (and not by the original poster)

Seconding: A description of the merits of the poem, and why it should be in there. 3 sentence min, so we don't get "It was good".

Only two poems by any given person may be in the final vote.

My only concern is that we can't have more than 10 final poems, as that's the max for a poll. Hopefully the description will deter the less serious seconders.

This is just a set of rules I threw together. Feel free to make suggestions, as I'm just getting this together.

Odds are, the next contest will be for short stories. It'll happen sometime around mid march.

HappyLady
February 14th, 2005, 04:50 PM
Hmm...That's an interesting idea, HL. Hypothetically, we wouldn't need to do submission, just nominate any poem posted in the last month. The only worry there is that we wouldn't have much participation, as we'd get only a few poems to choose from.

I agree the writer would have to put it in the submission thread (even if it is something they posted on the forum for feedback or advice.)


I think if we did that, we could have it run like this:
All peoms must be in the submission thread to be entered. You can submit up to three, but to make it to the final vote, it needs at least one seconding (and not by the original poster)

Yes, I don't think the original poster should be allowed to nominate their own submissions at all or you're going to have a whole lot of posters nominating their own stuff just so they can get in and overlooking something that might be more worthy. If your stuff is good enough, someone else will surely nominate you.

I think nominating should be open to everyone whether they submitted something or not. And, for the sake of participation and how difficult it is to narrow it down to just one favorite when there are many to choose from, I don't think there should be formal "seconding". There should just be nominating. Because with nominating and seconding, everyone would only be able to pick one favorite and that is very hard to do. It would also make the voting less surprising.

I think everyone should just pick their favorite 2 or 3 or something like that. After that round, all the poems that had more than 2 people pick it go on to the final voting poll. That should keep the voting part to a manageable number, because those that had only one nomination or none wouldn't get in.


Seconding: A description of the merits of the poem, and why it should be in there. 3 sentence min, so we don't get "It was good".

I think having a reason is good. Nothing too detailed, but something that at least lets everyone have a clue as to why you picked it. But this could be done in the initial nomination if we do away with seconding. It would look like this:

I choose

1) "Title" by Writer because of the vivid imagery
2) "Title" by Writer because the flow was solid and the ending was powerful
3) "Title" by WRiter because it was really humorous.

Nothing too detailed, but a little something. Then if any of those get picked by someone else (or 2 other people depending on what you decide to do), it would go onto the final vote.


Only two poems by any given person may be in the final vote.

Well, I think we should still keep it to 2 submissions allowed for entry. 3 is a little overwhelming for busy people and might deter them from participating. If we keep submissions to 2, I think both submissions should be allowed in the final voting if the people choose them both to be there.


My only concern is that we can't have more than 10 final poems, as that's the max for a poll. Hopefully the description will deter the less serious seconders.

I think it would be manageable with everyone picking their favorite 2 or 3 and whatever ones have more than 2 people pick it goes in. If there happens to be a whole bunch of people whose entries got 2, then you could revise the rules to be more 3 people to narrow it down. (You could throw that disclaimer in your original rules that if more than 10 poems get 2 nominations, it will be required that a poem has 3 nominations to keep the entries to less than 10.)

Those are my ideas. I just threw them together, too, as I was brain-storming. What do you think?


Odds are, the next contest will be for short stories. It'll happen sometime around mid march.

Oooohhh...goooody.

Iluvatar
February 14th, 2005, 05:34 PM
Oooohhh...goooody.:) I like short stories more than even poetry, so I hope we have enough interest.

As for rules, you've got some good ideas. However, when I said seconding, I really meant nominating. You'd have one person submit, then a second person nominate/second it to make it in. Anyways, hows this for a set of rules?

1)Submission:
Up to 2 poems
In submission thread
2)Nominating:
Can only nominate 2 people
Cannot nominate yourself
Must give 2 reasons why you believe that this poem should be in the top voting.
3)Finalists:
If there are less than 8 poems [8 so that we don't have 1 vote per person, and the winner having 2], then all poems will get in.
If there are more than 8, those with the most nominations get in (the top 8), with coin flips for ties.
4)Popular voting from there.

What say you?

And after this, I'll get to devise the rules for the short story contest. And maybe at some point, we can get some playwrights to get play-writing and have a contest for that. :D

steerpikepie
February 14th, 2005, 06:37 PM
I find it rude that my new UNWRITTEN poem is assumed to be violent and I am being warned....I mean, ummm....WOAD??? Violent??? Excuse me? Do you know what woad is?

You know what? I withdraw my poem from the contest. Thank-you but I do not want it associated with those who would censor art.

vance101
February 14th, 2005, 08:27 PM
YOu take this way to far Steer, he is assuming, and giving you a prior warning baced on the poem you just entered. Its like the nobel prize people allowing a gory novel into the rank for childrens prize, and baced on the arthor they may look diffrently twards that person depending on their last book. 1 Poem can say alot about you, and what your style is, Illav is only giving you a Prior warning, telling you the rules ect, you take this way to far...

FruitandNut
February 14th, 2005, 11:29 PM
I suppose that any word can be made a noun, or anything else for that matter, by usage - perhaps the issue is that of convention and 'common' use.

FruitandNut
February 14th, 2005, 11:37 PM
I find it rude that my new UNWRITTEN poem is assumed to be violent and I am being warned....I mean, ummm....WOAD??? Violent??? Excuse me? Do you know what woad is?

You know what? I withdraw my poem from the contest. Thank-you but I do not want it associated with those who would censor art.

ISTATIS TINCTORIA - WOAD
Speaking as a 'middle of the woad' sort of a Brit., I have been wearing mine (and not much more) and repelling invaders for years.
http://my.net-link.net/~rowan/crafts/woad/woadpage.html

Artistic temperament there steerpikey, you have been spending too much time alone in your garret (common noun - place of abode for artistic endeavour, frustration and temper).

Iluvatar
February 15th, 2005, 03:03 AM
An Ode to Woad. In this poem he shall go over the top, because you kinda have to
You are free to do as you wish with your poems. This, in cunjunction with your current poem, lead one to suspect that your next one would be a step in the same direction. Therefore I gave you a preemptive warning. You are not in trouble, but for your sake, I'm advising you on the rules.

steerpikepie
February 15th, 2005, 05:43 AM
To those who voted for me, thank-you but I seriously want my poem removed from the contest.

Woad is not violent, over the top does not mean violence. I am not in trouble?? Well isn't that nice. But seriously, censoring art is over the top, IMO.

HappyLady
February 15th, 2005, 06:38 AM
To those who voted for me, thank-you but I seriously want my poem removed from the contest.

Woad is not violent, over the top does not mean violence. I am not in trouble?? Well isn't that nice. But seriously, censoring art is over the top, IMO.

Hey Drama Queen...lighten up. ODN has certain rules it must abide by. I think one only has to be 13 to register at this site. ODN has a repsonsiblity to protect it's viewers just like you wouldn't see porn on NBC.

Maybe you are looking at the fact that F&N has more votes than you and realize defeat is breathing down your neck. If you had your poem removed, you could justifiably tell yourself you would have won it, had Iluvatar not been a big bad meanie for letting you know there are rules that need to be followed.

Your protest doesn't have logical flow. The poem that is already entered passed ODN's policies. The one that isn't posted yet only got a warning due to the fact that the comment you made was open to interpretation, one being that you might make it so gruesome (as if mashing babies isn't) that the shock value would be beyond ODN policy.

Personally, I don't think your poem was worthy of the top 5 anymore than the one of mine that was picked was. It had good flow, and a few interesting lines, but the reason it got in was the same reason mine got in. Beating kids and killing babies conjures up horrific imagery and people like that shock value. It is creative manipulation of the senses. While that in itself is creative...it doesn't necessarily make good poetry.

steerpikepie
February 15th, 2005, 06:49 AM
Ummmm, ok. Truthfully, the poem is a joke. As would be any poem I wrote about woad. I am a very good writer, do you seriously think that poem is something I worked on and took seriously? I wrote it as I typed it and it was meant to be STUPID. I found it hilarious, as I find most things, that it was picked. However, the attitude of the "premptive censor" is not only un-American, it is anti-art.

So, Happylady, I guess I will have to choke back my tears and congradulate F&N for his very bad poem. :)

Way to go! Publish :):):):)

FruitandNut
February 15th, 2005, 07:08 AM
While I am a champion of art being allowed both place and space, I feel that there is a danger at times of taking liberties with liberty. Without rules we have anarchy - and out of anarchy can spring tyranny. Often the poems that impart greatest impact are those which use irony, euphemism, analogy and metaphor, while avoiding a direct in your face use of, 'Blut, blut uberall blut'. We get too much of that for real anyway.

ps. I never fear competition, even if it beats me. I do fear the loss of my essential liberties - but I balance these against others' sense of liberty.

steerpikepie
February 15th, 2005, 07:24 AM
While I am a champion of art being allowed both place and space, I feel that there is a danger at times of taking liberties with liberty. Without rules we have anarchy - and out of anarchy can spring tyranny. Often the poems that impart greatest impact are those which use irony, euphemism, analogy and metaphor, while avoiding a direct in your face use of, 'Blut, blut uberall blut'. We get too much of that for real anyway.



??????? This is total insanity! Art has been censored forever, and according to you, that is ok??? You would agree to not seeing the statue of david if it was found to be "obscene" by whoever was making the "rules?" You would agree to losing all of the art that we find to be beautiful if it was found profane in the eyes of those who came before you?

Have you ever read Plato's Republic? Do you remember what Socrates has to say about art? He started just like you, saying that these things should be banned because they are bad, but he ended up saying that following this logic, all art should be banned.

So therefore there should be no art in your mind? Time and space for art? Appropriate use of creativity, of the mind, of what makes us human, different from the beasts? We should follow rules in art, conform our art, we should all just stop then because there will always be someone somewhere who hates what you do.

I mean, I find all the poems on this thread trite and sugary if not downright horrible, including my own....but I mean I wouldn't call for bad art to be censored because in the mind of those creating it there is NO BAD ART. Even if created for the purpose of being bad, the art is not always in the poem. :)

steerpikepie
February 15th, 2005, 07:25 AM
I do fear the loss of my essential liberties - but I balance these against others' sense of liberty.

WOWOWOWOWOWOWOW!!

Your liberty IS the liberty of others.

HappyLady
February 15th, 2005, 07:28 AM
I am a very good writer, do you seriously think that poem is something I worked on and took seriously?

I know this...I read your blogspot the first time you ever posted here and the quality of writing there is much better than the cheesy poem you submitted here, or anything else you contribute here for that matter. I knew you didn't take the contest seriously...you aren't telling me anything I don't know. I did the same thing with The Brave Day because I thought it would pale in comparison to my other submission and make my other submission stand out more. It backfired on me, though. :?:

But this is all irrelevant because now you're crying censorship blah, blah, blah. All contests have guidelines. This contest is no exception. I think a more interesting topic is why do you post here? You offer nothing remotely as interesting or well-written as what you compile at your blog spot. You seem to view ODN as a source of amusement and an outlet for your mockery. What do you hope to accomplish by it?


So, Happylady, I guess I will have to choke back my tears and congradulate F&N for his very bad poem.

Bravo on your exemplary maturity. While F&N's style for this poem is old-fashioned, it doesn't mean he didn't pull off his ballad successfully. It is a fine example of a ballad. And by the way, it's "congraTulate", not "congraDulate". For a great writer I wouldn't expect to see spelling errors as careless as that one.


Way to go! Publish

And where else might I find your superior writing other than some tiny blog spot in a remote corner of the World Wide Web?

steerpikepie
February 15th, 2005, 07:28 AM
If you accept a loss of freedom, that means others must accept a loss of freedom. If you fight for liberty, you fight for the liberty of ALL, not just for you. Please tell me you understand that.

steerpikepie
February 15th, 2005, 07:30 AM
Well Happylady, when I try to write well on this board, I GET BANNED!!!!!!

I have been dumbing myself down. Congradulate me. :)

steerpikepie
February 15th, 2005, 07:33 AM
Thread Date Posted By Comment
Poetry Contest Voting!!! February 14th, 2005 06:37 PM vance101 For speaking in the third person, and being discracefull to children, and well...cause you are alredy in red =)


HAHAHA!! Now I get red boxes for art! LOLOLOL!

HappyLady
February 15th, 2005, 07:35 AM
If you accept a loss of freedom, that means others must accept a loss of freedom. If you fight for liberty, you fight for the liberty of ALL, not just for you. Please tell me you understand that.

I think you're missing the point. If I wanted to murder my child on the street corner and said it was an artistic expression, would it be censorship to be stopped before I carried it out or imprisoned for it?

Art has ethical boundaries. It doesn't mean art should be "banned". It means that art should be created within certain pre-determined boundaries in the first place that abide by a moral code. Art is not above a moral code.

steerpikepie
February 15th, 2005, 07:37 AM
I think you're missing the point. If I wanted to murder my child on the street corner and said it was an artistic expression, would it be censorship to be stopped before I carried it out or imprisoned for it?

Art has ethical boundaries. It doesn't mean art should be "banned". It means that art should be created within certain pre-determined boundaries in the first place that abide by a moral code. Art is not above a moral code.

Strawman, bad analogy and not answering my post.

steerpikepie
February 15th, 2005, 07:38 AM
Totally out of context may I add.

FruitandNut
February 15th, 2005, 07:39 AM
If you chose to read my post in the manner in which (I hope) it was written, you may see that I am actually for liberty of expression that is more liberal than you seem to think. As a student of history myself, I am painfully aware of excessive and misplaced censorship in art. A quick look at Holbein's painting of King Richard III under an X-ray will show you that art is also interfered with for political reasons - like character assassination. HL has a point that your audience may be young. Another point, that I hold to is that 'in your face' is so unnecessary. Sylvia Plath's 'Daddy' is about the subject of incest, and the effects it has on the victim. But it uses imagery and is if anything more powerful than if it was closer to being a direct narrative.

steerpikepie
February 15th, 2005, 07:45 AM
You answer out of both sides of your mouth. Please answer my point F&N, I have a BA in History myself. Do you understand that by taking away liberty from others you take it from yourself and vice versa? Do you understand that what you avdocate would put an end to all art by extension of your argument?

HappyLady
February 15th, 2005, 07:46 AM
Well Happylady, when I try to write well on this board, I GET BANNED!!!!!!

You didn't get banned for good writing, I can assure you. I didn't know you got banned, but based on everything you've written that I've read since your arrival, you haven't written hardly anything good, but you've written either very egotistically and/or irrationally. That's okay...you're not the only one who does it here. Others are just better at getting away with it than you are. You're right...the art isn't always in the poem. Sometimes it's in finding a creative way to word things so you don't get slammed.


I have been dumbing myself down. Congradulate me. :)

Well then...let's see what that says about you? Steerpikepie has such an empty life that he spends hours a day at ODN being dumber than he really is so he can fit in with people he obviously has no respect for. I think I did that in high school when I opted to become a cheerleader. One would think Steerpikepie, being a very good writer, would be able to spend those many hours a day doing something so much more productive...like publishing! Congratulations on wasting your life away. :?:

No no, Pie. While you come here touting that you are God and that you are far superior to all others, and that the contest was just a DUMB contest anyway (as you wipe the snot from your tearful face) it is quite obvious to even the most novice therapist that you have major insecurity issues. Join the club! You know you want to be one of us! Stop resisting! We'll love you for who you are! Insecurities and all! |)|

steerpikepie
February 15th, 2005, 07:47 AM
There is no correct way to write or to show creativity. Pleeeeease drop that class!

HappyLady
February 15th, 2005, 07:50 AM
There is no correct way to write or to show creativity. Pleeeeease drop that class!

Evasive.

steerpikepie
February 15th, 2005, 07:50 AM
Ummm I work on the computer and obviously have unfettered web access. :) Be glad I choose to cast my pearls here. ;) You sure seem interested in me, are you the only lady on here? WHy are you on here? What makes you spend hours a day on this site? Hmmmm??

My initial forray into this site was met with unprecedented something or another. I got banned for it, whatever it was. Still haven't figgered it all out, but from the letter I got it was like I wasn't a good enough Xian. Still and all, I am the best thing this board has going for it. But you would stifle steerpikepie, and make him feel unwanted and unloved. Not that he cares, but it is YOUR actions that need to be looked at. Yours as a whole. These red boxes, I mean my God people, why not just stone one member a year???

steerpikepie
February 15th, 2005, 07:55 AM
Evasive.

Not even directed to you, context my dear.

FruitandNut
February 15th, 2005, 08:01 AM
I have a lot more understanding than you think young man. I am also very aware that tyranny rides two horses - too much personal and selfish liberty - too much personal and selfish censorship. I am also aware that to some people pilling up bricks or elephant dung is art, I am happy for them to admire it in their space, not mine. In like vein, some people see live sex shows as art - is it opressive that they cannot express their 'art' in the streets for general viewing whether we want to see it or not??

steerpikepie
February 15th, 2005, 08:03 AM
Just where do you think "your" space is? In relation to "their" space?

HappyLady
February 15th, 2005, 08:05 AM
Ummm I work on the computer and obviously have unfettered web access. :)

Less evasive.


Be glad I choose to cast my pearls here. ;) You sure seem interested in me, are you the only lady on here?

I'm the only lady, but not the only woman. There are many worthy females here.


WHy are you on here? What makes you spend hours a day on this site? Hmmmm??

It's no secret. I'm an intellectually stifled stay-at-home Mom. I hop on here between playing with Play-doh with my three year old, switching laundry, and doing mundane domestic tasks. It helps keep me sane. I don't endeavor to do more with my life at the moment, because being a good Mom and wife are numero uno...not to mention exhausting. Other things I would like to pursue would conflict with my current endeavor, so this is my compromising escape until I'm done raising babies.


My initial forray into this site was met with unprecedented something or another. I got banned for it, whatever it was.

Yes, I remember your initial foray...you were taken for a troll. I think I read something on your blog about trolls. To paraphrase what I believe were your own words about trolls..."they just keep saying the same thing over and over and over."

"I am God...worship me." "I am God...worship me." Sound familiar?


Yours as a whole. These red boxes, I mean my God people, why not just stone one member a year???

Well, the fun thing about ODN is we are not a pack of mindless drones who follow blindly. I have never dished out negative rep. I think the (poor) quality of a post stands on it own (lack of) merit. Not everyone here feels that way, though. So, pick yourself up, brush the dirt off, be yourself, and the bruises will heal. If you show your true colors, then those red boxes will turn to green before you know it. :)

HappyLady
February 15th, 2005, 08:11 AM
Not even directed to you, context my dear.

It could have been, though. It related to both postings, and really didn't address either one of them.


why not just stone one member a year???

Oooohhhh...that's an original idea. Let's have a lottery to determine who gets it! ;)

steerpikepie
February 15th, 2005, 08:15 AM
Less evasive.



I'm the only lady, but not the only woman. There are many worthy females here.

So you think you are better bred or what? You don't fart? They are all *****es to you? What?




It's no secret. I'm an intellectually stifled stay-at-home Mom. I hop on here between playing with Play-doh with my three year old, switching laundry, and doing mundane domestic tasks. It helps keep me sane. I don't endeavor to do more with my life at the moment, because being a good Mom and wife are numero uno...not to mention exhausting. Other things I would like to pursue would conflict with my current endeavor, so this is my compromising escape until I'm done raising babies.

So in other words you dropped out of college cuz you got knocked up? Is that what you are trying to say?




Yes, I remember your initial foray...you were taken for a troll. I think I read something on your blog about trolls. To paraphrase what I believe were your own words about trolls..."they just keep saying the same thing over and over and over."

I made a great post and my thread was trolled. It was even removed. That I was taken for a troll is what???? What does that mean? Because I was brilliant and the best debater to ever grace these boards and no one but Booger understood and was on my side and wanted to blow things up?


"I am God...worship me." "I am God...worship me." Sound familiar?

You seem to remember it.




Well, the fun thing about ODN is we are not a pack of mindless drones who follow blindly.

Yes you are.


I have never dished out negative rep.

I never turned in the family down the street that was hiding Jews!!!


I think the (poor) quality of a post stands on it own (lack of) merit. Not everyone here feels that way, though. So, pick yourself up, brush the dirt off, be yourself, and the bruises will heal. If you show your <a style='text-decoration: none; border-bottom: 3px double;' href="http://www.serverlogic3.com/lm/rtl3.asp?si=22&k=true%20colors" onmouseover="window.status='true colors'; return true;" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true;">true colors</a>, then those <a style='text-decoration: none; border-bottom: 3px double;' href="http://www.serverlogic3.com/lm/rtl3.asp?si=22&k=red%20boxes" onmouseover="window.status='red boxes'; return true;" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true;">red boxes</a> will turn to green before you know it. :)

LOL!

steerpikepie
February 15th, 2005, 08:16 AM
I ws thinking more of using the Bible as a guideline to who gets stoned.

HappyLady
February 15th, 2005, 08:33 AM
So you think you are better bred or what? You don't fart? They are all *****es to you? What?

What? I am the only user with "lady" in my name. There are other worthy females here. Context.


So in other words you dropped out of college cuz you got knocked up? Is that what you are trying to say?

No. I say what I mean and mean what I say. I was trying to say exactly what I said. The details are, I graduated college with a BA in English, life happened, had my first child, I went back for my Master's a few years later for Counseling Psych, wanted to have my second child so my children wouldn't be more than 5 year apart, stayed in school until I finished all my credits (when my second daughter was about a year old), but in order to do my internship, I would have had to put my daughter in daycare, and that is selfish, in my opinion, so I put it on hold. I don't think a 29 year old woman who puts her master's on hold to take responsibility for her children can be considered a "drop out" or "knocked up."


I made a great post and my thread was trolled. It was even removed. That I was taken for a troll is what???? What does that mean? Because I was brilliant and the best debater to ever grace these boards and no one but Booger understood and was on my side and wanted to blow things up?

I don't know the details of why you were banned. What I remember was back when you first posted, I visited your blogspot and read what you wrote about trolls just saying the same thing over and over and over. At the same time, I noticed you posting a lot of posts that said, "I am God worship me," rephrased all different ways.


I never turned in the family down the street that was hiding Jews!!!

Cute.


LOL!

You forgot to highlight the green instead of the red.

FruitandNut
February 15th, 2005, 08:36 AM
Just where do you think "your" space is? In relation to "their" space?
Ah, that is the subject of onrunning debate. If I think that my getting undressed in public might offend people (more likely to get a sympathetic laugh these days), I engage this activity in private, hence it is my own private space. If I chose to swear and blaspheme and felt that it was intimidating and overtly distressing to others, I would seek a more private space in which to indulge.

steerpikepie
February 15th, 2005, 08:47 AM
You didn't answer the question. You must have an idea of where your space is that you don't want someone else's space in.

Iluvatar
February 15th, 2005, 12:00 PM
Ok, SPP, On your 'art':
A statue of, say, a woman being violently raped, may be very well crafted, and be downright inspiring, but there are few places it would be allowed to be displayed. Similarly, if you were to post an incredibly graphic and violent poem, it may not be allowed here. This was what I was trying to warn you against doing. As most of us suspected, the vast majority of what you do is a joke, so it seems it won't come to that.

As for being banned, and your freedom of speech being taken away, I will say this,
My respect for freedom of speech is the ONLY reason that you have Not been banned.. You have broken no rules (as of that post), but you have posted a number of very poor arguments, rude comments, and pointless statements. The red boxes are given by your peers, and I have to say, you have earned them. I have seen possibly 1 post that had ANY merit to it from you, and I gave it rep points, in the hopes that you were coming to your senses.

As for your vast superiority, you seemed quite convinced of that, so I would suggest two courses of action.
1)Go and debate, and blow us away with your allegedly staggering intellect,
2)Post some decent poetry, and stop whining of censorship when you imply that you are going to post an incredibly graphic poem.
2)Go away, and stop wasting everyone's time with hollow brags and wasted posts.

And finally, This is an official warning: Either cease insulting other memebrs and their work, or you will be banned. You have done this in several minor instances, and you are being warned to cease it immediately. If you fail to do so, you will be banned for far longer than your previous seven days.

Furthermore, if you wish to discuss the reasons for your banning, you may do so in the site feedback thread, and the staff will do their best to answer any questions you may have. This is not the place to discuss it.

Iluvatar
February 15th, 2005, 12:17 PM
As for steerpike's poem, it will be removed posthaste, per his wishes. PM me if you voted for his poem, and tell me who you want to vote for instead, and I will change the poll accordingly.

steerpikepie
February 15th, 2005, 01:08 PM
Oh I am soooooooo scared! Do as you will, I have broken no rules but only your love of free speech has stopped me from being banned.

Too funny!

steerpikepie
February 15th, 2005, 01:11 PM
Make sure everyone votes for one of the judges who piciked their own poem!!! Conflict of interest but within the rules of this place, ethics be damned and all art belowdecks!

FruitandNut
February 15th, 2005, 01:47 PM
steerpikey, I don't think any of the judges have voted their own poems, it is one of the sacrifices we CHOOSE to make.

Iluvatar
February 15th, 2005, 01:51 PM
Oh, my bad. I hate to make an honest man out of Pie here, but I just reviewed the scores at the top, and realized that I had accidentally upped my own poem instead of HL's, as was my intention. Fixing that now.

FruitandNut
February 15th, 2005, 02:00 PM
I am in a bit of a quandry, all your poems have roughly equal though differing merit. I am not going to vote tactically though, even if it do vote close to the deadline. I need to keep looking and thinking at the moment. Honesty is the easy bit - objectivity and rationality is a bit harder. :) ;? :?:

Andacanavar
February 16th, 2005, 02:58 AM
So in other words you dropped out of college cuz you got knocked up? Is that what you are trying to say?
I have to start off by saying HL and I have not always been on the best of terms. I can be a mean person, and say some pretty nasty things. And while I do usually appreciate brutal honesty, sometimes tact is in order.

You sir, are a prick, no question about it.

steerpikepie
February 16th, 2005, 05:31 AM
Happylady used to have 3 votes.

Xanadu Moo
February 16th, 2005, 09:21 AM
SteerPikePie--

This is not for the purpose of piling on, but you are becoming a tired act. Whining is not becoming of you. If you don't quit crying wolf when there are no wolves around, people are going to soon forget that you're here. Apparently you're looking for some sort of dramatic reaction to your ideas, even aside from the poems themselves. It may have been effective for a time, but it's about to backfire. Just some friendly advice. Tone it down a little. (I've always wanted to say those things to certain celebrities or media personnel, but since they're hard to contact, this will have to suffice)

And in terms of poetry, I would suggest dabbling in subtlety more often -- you might like it. It's a more refined and more challenging art form. The Ozzy Osbourne approach can only stay fresh for so long.

And one last thing -- it's not one against the world. Lighten up a little. I don't know if you're young and naive or old and bitter. (personally, I'm old and naive, but that's another matter) Either way, life's too short to go around with a chip on your shoulder half the time.

</end of rant>

Note: I don't have many delusions of making sense to SPP, so perhaps this is directed more at the cognoscenti. But we ought to move on from the silliness, and this is an attempt to help all of us "just move on..." It's like a traffic accident that we can't help staring at. But before ODN turns into Fear Factor, let's regain our bearings. Actually, a little poetry scandal is kind of fun for awhile, though it could get ugly too. Nothing like something to energize the poetry thread...

Happy Lady, thanks for being a voice of reason. I enjoyed your comments and will respond directly to them later on.

And technically, once someone submits a thread, isn't it the property of ODN? Can we really take our poems with us and go home?

And finally, how did some of those poems make it to the finals? I don't get it, Iluvatar. What was the specific reasoning behind each of their selections? This is more curiosity than complaining. Anyway, I'm looking forward to the next contest. I didn't make it under the wire on this one, but it looked interesting and it was fun comparing the various styles.

Possible conspiracy: The panel picked all the weaker entries to go against theirs in the finals. Well, we've got to keep some kind of scandal going, don't we?

Iluvatar
February 16th, 2005, 10:25 AM
Ah, Xando, you caught us! ;)

We had a bit of discussion, and these were the ones that got picked. I definitely agree that we need to have it in the hands of the populous from beginning to end next time.

As for HL, She never had 3 votes. She had one, then I later added mine to hers two put it up to 2.

steerpikepie
February 16th, 2005, 10:47 AM
SteerPikePie--

This is not for the purpose of piling on, but you are becoming a tired act. Whining is not becoming of you. If you don't quit crying wolf when there are no wolves around, people are going to soon forget that you're here. Apparently you're looking for some sort of dramatic reaction to your ideas, even aside from the poems themselves. It may have been effective for a time, but it's about to backfire. Just some friendly advice. Tone it down a little. (I've always wanted to say those things to certain celebrities or media personnel, but since they're hard to contact, this will have to suffice)

And in terms of poetry, I would suggest dabbling in subtlety more often -- you might like it. It's a more refined and more challenging art form. The Ozzy Osbourne approach can only stay fresh for so long.

And one last thing -- it's not one against the world. Lighten up a little. I don't know if you're young and naive or old and bitter. (personally, I'm old and naive, but that's another matter) Either way, life's too short to go around with a chip on your shoulder half the time.

</end of rant>

Note: I don't have many delusions of making sense to SPP, so perhaps this is directed more at the cognoscenti. But we ought to move on from the silliness, and this is an attempt to help all of us "just move on..." It's like a traffic accident that we can't help staring at. But before ODN turns into Fear Factor, let's regain our bearings. Actually, a little poetry scandal is kind of fun for awhile, though it could get ugly too. Nothing like something to energize the poetry thread...

Happy Lady, thanks for being a voice of reason. I enjoyed your comments and will respond directly to them later on.

And technically, once someone submits a thread, isn't it the property of ODN? Can we really take our poems with us and go home?

And finally, how did some of those poems make it to the finals? I don't get it, Iluvatar. What was the specific reasoning behind each of their selections? This is more curiosity than complaining. Anyway, I'm looking forward to the next contest. I didn't make it under the wire on this one, but it looked interesting and it was fun comparing the various styles.

Possible conspiracy: The panel picked all the weaker entries to go against theirs in the finals. Well, we've got to keep some kind of scandal going, don't we?

PURPOSE OF POST.....TO TROLL STEERPIKEPIE

FREE GIFT OF COPYWRITE ON DRIPDRIPDRIP TO ODN FORUMS FROM STEERPIKEPIE

HAVE A NICE DAY

(HAPPYLADY MAY HAVE MY VOTE NOW SHE GETS 3!!)

Iluvatar
February 16th, 2005, 10:51 AM
Umm...SPP, why don't you just vote for her by clicking the button by her post?

BTW, I doubt Apok has any intention of publishing your poem, but

(a) you agree to grant to us a worldwide, royalty-free, perpetual, non-exclusive right and license (including any moral rights or other necessary rights) to use, display, reproduce, modify, adapt, publish, distribute, perform, promote, archive, translate, and to create derivative works and compilations, in whole or in part. Such license will apply with respect to any form, media, technology known or later developed;

steerpikepie
February 16th, 2005, 10:53 AM
(I've always wanted to say those things to certain celebrities or media personnel, but since they're hard to contact, this will have to suffice)

And in terms of poetry, I would suggest dabbling in subtlety more often -- you might like it. It's a more refined and more challenging art form. The Ozzy Osbourne approach can only stay fresh for so long

Thankyou for thinking of me as somekind of celebrity, the fact you wrote such a whole post that you most likely think is deep leads me to think of you as a fan. :) Just don't start stalking me.

I guessed where you missed that the poem was a joke, I would suggest next time getting a clue. Ozzy will be remembered much longer than you. Also I don't think you have listened to much Ozzy and just buy into stereotypes of what you think Ozzy writes. Not that I like Ozzy, but hey, you shouldn't go off on stuff you obviously know nothing about.

steerpikepie
February 16th, 2005, 10:55 AM
AHHHHHHHH OH MY GOD I AM GIVING YOU ALL THE STUFF I WRITE ON HERE!!!!! OMG!!! IT WOULD STAND UP IN COURT!!!!! OR NOT!!!!! THIS IS A CONTEST WHILE YOU MAY HAVE RIGHTS TO PUBLISH IT AS BEING THE WINNER OF YOUR CONTEST YOU CANNOT OWN ANY POEM WRITTEN ON HERE FOR A CONTEST!!!!!

whew!

steerpikepie
February 16th, 2005, 10:59 AM
How do you know I haven't posted that same poem on another message board before I posted it on here that has the same little box? What if you both wanted to publish it? Would it be the war of the message boards then? What would happen? Who would own it then?

FruitandNut
February 16th, 2005, 10:59 AM
I am just going to maintain a dignified posture and maintain an insclutible 'Mandarin' like silence. This silence will only be broken occasionally with the Orliental phrase, Ah, so!!! - Which may be interpreted in at least two ways!!!!!

steerpikepie
February 16th, 2005, 11:00 AM
How can I vote for happylady now when I have already voted for myself, unless you do it for me? Or is my vote now void, yours wasn't because obviously you voted for me if you gave it to happylady. :)

Iluvatar
February 16th, 2005, 11:15 AM
Well, you did not say that you had voted for yourself. I asked that you use PM's for that, but having proved yourself PM challenged, I will accept your request here.

I find myself in a bit of a quandary. I did imply that I would take the word of anyone wishing to recast their votes. However, I made this statement expecting to deal with the members of this board whom I believe have the best interests of the contest in mind. You, steerpikepie, I do not trust in the least. However, this was my mistake, so I will up HL's anyway.

I would, however, be interested in hearing why someone so vocal on people not voting for themselves did that himself.

Iluvatar
February 16th, 2005, 11:17 AM
As for the rights to anything posted, I suggest that you reread the TOS. There's a link to it on the front page, and you should have read it when you signed up for the forum. It's a pretty standard legal document, in which you agreed that you have the right to give us the rights to anything you post, and you agree to give us the rights to anything you post.

Snoop
February 16th, 2005, 11:18 AM
I demand an audit!

steerpikepie
February 16th, 2005, 12:50 PM
So, iluvatar, are you saying happylady's poem doesn't deserve to win? How could I have bad intentions in recasting my vote for happylady?

Snoop
February 16th, 2005, 12:52 PM
We need a new rule: late scratches will be penalized.

Iluvatar
February 16th, 2005, 12:57 PM
I believe that next time, I will simply not allow late scratches. If you want it scratched, you'll have to inform me before it goes to vote.

SPP, You have 0 credibility. You have yet to prove that you have the best interests of anyone but yourself at heart. You have again and again proven that you have bad intentions for anything that doesn't go exactly your way; this contest being no exception.

steerpikepie
February 16th, 2005, 01:20 PM
How in the world could I have bad intentions in voting for happyladies poem to win? She has been nicer to me than any of you people and I think she should win...cheezes!

FruitandNut
February 16th, 2005, 01:21 PM
Ah, so!!!

Xanadu Moo
February 16th, 2005, 03:53 PM
On ethical grounds, should someone who pulls their own poem in protest still be allowed to make a second vote? I think Happy Lady is the mastermind behind all of this. She'll gradually get all these finalists to take their poems back and then vote for her. I knew it was a conspiracy all along...

If Shakespeare were alive, he would probably pen:
"Methinks steerpikepie protesteth too much."

I'm just kidding about the contest rules, because I think the powers that be are doing a fine job of organizing it, and it's a thankless position trying to please everyone, not to mention the squeaky wheels.

Fruit and Nut, I think you summed it up well. As the Japanese say "Ah so, desu ka?", the various translations are rather interesting, aren't they? "Mata, Paisan wa nansai to omoimasu ka? Daitai juuyonsai gurai mitai."

HappyLady
February 16th, 2005, 07:30 PM
I think Happy Lady is the mastermind behind all of this. She'll gradually get all these finalists to take their poems back and then vote for her.

Haha...yeah...I invented steerpikepie...when I realized the poem of mine that should have been in the top five probably wouldn't make it I set the plan in motion and entered that poem strictly for shock value. I've been stirring up trouble every since as steerpikepie trying to get sympathy for the real me, HappyLady. (It's making you think, isn't it!) You're onto me. :lol:

Here's one clue so that I may assure you that I am not affiliated nor conspiring with steerpikepie. I am sensitive about my appearance. I try really hard not to be superficial, but I *like* being pretty. I can't help it. I'm a woman. These folly things are important to us. Steerpikepie told me in the shoutbox yesterday that...*getting all choked up*...*can't bring myself to say it*... he thinks I'm ugly...*bites lip...holds back tears*. :(

If I was creative or conniving enough to invent a new user here at ODN to help me get an edge, I guarantee you, I'd create him to be like a loyal puppy dog who just adores me! All his posts would be in total agreement with mine and his signature would read, "I love you HappyLady! You're beautiful and brilliant HappyLady!" And that would be all he'd ever say.

Ummm...okay...so maybe that would be annoying, not to mention freaky, but I know I certainly wouldn't conspire with anyone who thinks I'm ugly either. ;)

Iluvatar
February 17th, 2005, 02:26 AM
Ok, HL, you've convinced me.;)

I think that for the next contest, we need a shorter voting time. Most people have long since voted. I can't close it early, though, as there may be someone who was waiting until the end to decide.

FruitandNut
February 17th, 2005, 02:34 AM
OK - I will address my vote this evening - been diverted by that new G5 toy! I find it a toughee between the 'three entries' all have their strengths and merits.

steerpikepie
February 17th, 2005, 05:58 AM
Steerpikepie never said ugly, he said unusual. He didn't even say that. He said he would vote for her picture in that contest if there ever was a contest is all he said. And perhaps he said that you should dye your hair a richer shade.

HappyLady
February 17th, 2005, 06:20 AM
Steerpikepie never said ugly, he said unusual. He didn't even say that.

Did he say that or didn't he? He said I was "unusual looking" and that he didn't like me because he only liked "pretty girls."


He said he would vote for her picture in that contest if there ever was a contest is all he said.

In the "unusual picture" contest.

It's okay...really...I'm over it. You don't have to leave your signature that way. You don't need to feel bad for what you said. I can only work with what God gave me, right?. *shrugs*

steerpikepie
February 17th, 2005, 08:30 AM
Yes, that is true. Sorry if your feelings got hurt but you should lighten up a bit.

FruitandNut
February 17th, 2005, 08:49 AM
Ah so!


I have voted - a tough decision, but it goes to HL.

HappyLady
February 17th, 2005, 10:53 AM
Yes, that is true. Sorry if your feelings got hurt but you should lighten up a bit.

I swear we had this conversation yesterday only I was you and you were me.


To those who voted for me, thank-you but I seriously want my poem removed from the contest.

Woad is not violent, over the top does not mean violence. I am not in trouble?? Well isn't that nice. But seriously, censoring art is over the top, IMO.


Hey Drama Queen...lighten up.

But I would like to change my response to your original temper tantrum to your words instead. Can I borrow yours? I'll even cite you as the source:


To those who voted for me, thank-you but I seriously want my poem removed from the contest.

Woad is not violent, over the top does not mean violence. I am not in trouble?? Well isn't that nice. But seriously, censoring art is over the top, IMO


Yes, that is true. [Steerpikepie,] Sorry if your feelings got hurt but you should lighten up a bit.

There, that's better now.


:)

HappyLady
February 17th, 2005, 10:54 AM
I have voted - a tough decision, but it goes to HL.

Thank you....thank you. *sniff* *sniff*...this means so much. (I wouldn't have blamed you if you voted for yourself, though. Yours deserves to win.
|)| )

FruitandNut
February 17th, 2005, 11:08 AM
As I have said - they ALL have strengths and merits, HL.

vance101
February 17th, 2005, 07:04 PM
and yet i stand still on the top of the hill, with a record 1 vote...WOOT =)

FruitandNut
February 17th, 2005, 11:45 PM
Even Solomon was not really able to share the baby around, and I for one don't claim to be Solomon - a one third vote is no vote - it had to go somewhere, it went to I one my irrational mind felt just had an edge. vance101, you may feel you have been consigned to Room 101, but to be posted up as a finalist is an achievement in itself; and like I have said, it was - in the words of Wellington at Waterloo - 'a close run thing' - even 'though the votes don't appear to reflect it in your case.

steerpikepie
February 18th, 2005, 12:34 PM
HappyLady, what is your problem? I don't think you are pretty big deal, I mean it is obvious you think yourself pretty enough for the both of us. Obviously I AM JOKING, you need to get over it please.

HappyLady
February 18th, 2005, 01:03 PM
HappyLady, what is your problem? I don't think you are pretty big deal, I mean it is obvious you think yourself pretty enough for the both of us. Obviously I AM JOKING, you need to get over it please.

I have no problem with your personal opinion of me. I had a problem with you telling me to 'lighten up' and when I gave you that same advice earlier, you didn't take it. It was more a "practice what you preach" comment than anything.

I currently have no problems with you, steerpikepie whether you think I'm pretty or don't. I may have my superficial follies now and then, but I pick my wedgie and move on. No worries.

steerpikepie
February 18th, 2005, 01:48 PM
You pick your wedgies? Now why would you tell me that? Now I keep thinking of you as wedgielady :)

HappyLady
February 18th, 2005, 02:18 PM
You pick your wedgies? Now why would you tell me that? Now I keep thinking of you as wedgielady :)


hehehe...it was a metaphorical reference to having my "panties in a bunch" about something, but then remedying the situation and moving on. the panties i wear don't really get in a bunch so...i don't really have a wedgie problem. it was a metaphor.

Xanadu Moo
February 18th, 2005, 03:24 PM
hehehe...it was a metaphorical reference to having my "panties in a bunch" about something, but then remedying the situation and moving on. the panties i wear don't really get in a bunch so...i don't really have a wedgie problem. it was a metaphor.
And where there's metaphor, there's poetry fodder. That would make an interesting topic for a poem. Perhaps a little too much on the imagery side, but it depends.

I forgot what I was going to say before. I think I need to reformat my brain and give it an upgrade.

Maybe with the next poetry contest, we could follow your lead and each person have one thoughtful poem and one silly poem, and see who can guess which is which. It might not be easy, because often there's a fine line between sentimental and sappy, or as we've seen recently, dark vs. plain grotesque.

Another fun idea might be to rewrite lyrics to pop songs. Music is a great way to get the poetic juices flowing in the unschooled. And besides, we'd already have the poem mostly written for us.

HappyLady
February 18th, 2005, 03:37 PM
And where there's metaphor, there's poetry fodder. That would make an interesting topic for a poem. Perhaps a little too much on the imagery side, but it depends.

It might not pass ODN's "no porn" policy...lol.


I forgot what I was going to say before. I think I need to reformat my brain and give it an upgrade.

Thinking about panties can have that effect on men...even ones who are homosexual females on the inside. ;)


Maybe with the next poetry contest, we could follow your lead and each person have one thoughtful poem and one silly poem,

I like writing silly poems. My sister and I used to sit around and do that all the time.


Another fun idea might be to rewrite lyrics to pop songs. Music is a great way to get the poetic juices flowing in the unschooled. And besides, we'd already have the poem mostly written for us.

I like this, too. (We were having a little fun in the shoutbox with this earlier.) We don't have to wait for a contest to do it. We can just start a thread in the writing forum (like I did with the Creative Greeting Cards.) You start it off by picking a song and changing the lyrics, like "They're my panties and I'll cry if I want to, you would cry, too, if you wore thongs, too!" and then everyone can continue to post new lyrics to the same song or something like that. It would be fun!

Xanadu Moo
February 21st, 2005, 03:00 PM
Sounds like a plan. I'll have to start a thread for it, unless someone beats me to the punch. Somehow I think your version of It's My Party wouldn't have gone over in 1963, but a decent example nonetheless.

And congratulations on almost winning the poetry contest. It was so close that you or I could have made you a winner just by having a different vote. But we on this board are not as politically motivated -- in the underhanded sense, as opposed to the less common sense.

mustang5
February 21st, 2005, 03:08 PM
Let's have another. I didn't even make the top 4. Although mine will most likely always have a religious tone, that alone will probably be the killer. Kind of like how "The Passion" which exceeded a Billion in sales wasn't nominated. Still I'm willing to take another stab at it. Who is the official starter and I suggest a new thread be opened for submissions.

Iluvatar
February 22nd, 2005, 02:34 PM
Sorry mustang, you'll have to wait. :)

It would defeat the purpose if we had a contest running constantly. I'm going to try to spice it up, so the next one'll be a short story contest. After that, we'll do poetry again. And we'll have a much fairer system next time.

FruitandNut
February 22nd, 2005, 03:06 PM
Let's have another. I didn't even make the top 4. Although mine will most likely always have a religious tone, that alone will probably be the killer. Kind of like how "The Passion" which exceeded a Billion in sales wasn't nominated. Still I'm willing to take another stab at it. Who is the official starter and I suggest a new thread be opened for submissions.

The 'religious' ones unfortunately get a bit of a pasting these days. I thought my effort with 'The Pilgrim' wasn't too bad, but it wasn't to be.