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Sigfried
June 12th, 2012, 01:37 PM
So, I noticed that I was getting testy in debates where there were ever expanding sets of back and forth statements. I tend to be verbose and I tend to have something to say about nearly everything and the central issues often got lost in the ever expanding forest of individual points.

So I am trying to adopt a new style, at least temporarily.

The goals are thus
1. Make debates more concise and easy to read
2. Lessen my personal sense of frustration when posting
3. Lessen the personal tone of responses
4. Create better formed arguments
5. Create shorter posts

My technique is thus
1. Do not directly quote my opponents posts except in rare occasions
2. Keep all comments along one line of argument together in a post and label them in some fashion if there is more than one
3. Refer to opponents by their name (or an obvious nickname) rather than "You" or the like
4. Composing my posts in an outside editor then pasting and marking them up on ODN's editor

Here is my first such effort - (and in this debate MindTrap is going to be trying something similar in his posts)
http://www.onlinedebate.net/forums/showthread.php/25107-The-second-magic-tree-and-God-the-unloving-liar?p=496558&viewfull=1#post496558

I can foresee some problems that may come up in this technique so I am interested in feedback as I do this on whether people like the style either as readers or debaters.

Dionysus
June 12th, 2012, 01:51 PM
So, I noticed that I was getting testy in debates where there were ever expanding sets of back and forth statements. I tend to be verbose and I tend to have something to say about nearly everything and the central issues often got lost in the ever expanding forest of individual points.TY


So I am trying to adopt a new style, at least temporarily.Cool!


The goals are thus
1. Make debates more concise and easy to readGood idea.


2. Lessen my personal sense of frustration when postingGreat.


3. Lessen the personal tone of responsesYES!


4. Create better formed argumentsINDEED Smithers!


5. Create shorter postsYeah!


My technique is thus
1. Do not directly quote my opponents posts except in rare occasionsTRUTH!


2. Keep all comments along one line of argument together in a post and label them in some fashion if there is more than oneTotally doable.


3. Refer to opponents by their name (or an obvious nickname) rather than "You" or the likeYes, makes sense.


4. Composing my posts in an outside editor then pasting and marking them up on ODN's editorOh yeah.


Here is my first such effort - (and in this debate MindTrap is going to be trying something similar in his posts)
http://www.onlinedebate.net/forums/showthread.php/25107-The-second-magic-tree-and-God-the-unloving-liar?p=496558&viewfull=1#post496558

I can foresee some problems that may come up in this technique so I am interested in feedback as I do this on whether people like the style either as readers or debaters.I think it's a great idea.


http://cdn.head-fi.org/1/1c/1cd234e6_half-trollface.jpeg

Apokalupsis
June 12th, 2012, 02:04 PM
I think it's interesting. I do think at times you'll have to make a direct quote however, I'm not entirely sure how you can get around that, however you did say you would leave it open to doing so in rare instances.

Overall I think it's a good attempt in the way we engage one another. I'll follow along and see how well it works (by seeing if a) it can be maintained and b) you actually enjoy the change).

Dionysus
June 12th, 2012, 02:49 PM
All BS aside, I think one of the biggest difficulties in minimizing quoting will be the perception that some points are being avoided/ignored. I wonder if some of the new forum tools could be used to keep something of a tally of points to be addressed in a table or something? Or maybe like references are collected at the bottom of an essay?

I don't want to complicate the idea though, which is a good one; just throwing some thoughts out there.

eye4magic
June 12th, 2012, 03:17 PM
I can foresee some problems that may come up in this technique so I am interested in feedback as I do this on whether people like the style either as readers or debaters.

I think the effort and reflection to experiment from an already excellent debater, is splendid and commendable.

Squatch347
June 14th, 2012, 06:17 AM
Having now seen it in action, I think it would be helpful to dispense with the quotation rule. As a respondent it isn't clear to me who you are referring to or what point you are dealing with.

Sigfried
June 14th, 2012, 06:41 AM
Thanks for the responses.

I agree that keeping signposted is one of the challenges I'll need to figure out.

Also I'm concerned about people feeling I am straw manning when I paraphrase their arguments as I understand them.

Dionysus
June 14th, 2012, 06:44 AM
To Sigfried

Sig has suggested that he'll work to figure out a way to make who he's responding to more conspicuous given his experimental style of posting. I bet this, or something like it, just might work.

chadn737
June 14th, 2012, 07:28 AM
So far I dig it all except the use of the third person. It really throws me off.

Dionysus
June 14th, 2012, 07:35 AM
To Chad

Chad is thrown off by the usage of third person. I suggest that Chad stop being a whiner and simply suck it up.


http://images.uncyc.org/commons/thumb/6/69/Trollface_side.png/120px-Trollface_side.png

Sigfried
June 19th, 2012, 09:53 AM
What I have learned so far....

1. Dio is funny

2. I feel happier posting in this way. It feels more thoughtful and measured.

3. Fewer people reply to my new format. It may be they don't realize its a response without quotes (so I often lead with the name of the person I am responding too now). There may be other reasons but I am not certain. It may be my arguments are harder to refute, either in their reasoning or because of the format. It may be the less personal nature just insights less of a feeling of challenge which demotivates response. On one hand it makes me wonder if other people are bothering to read them, on the other it sometimes gives me the satisfaction of making a definitive and unchallenged statement in a debate.

Not sure about...

1. Whether they are easier or more enjoyable to read or not.