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kindlkeller
April 28th, 2014, 05:16 PM
Is the Holocaust a Hoax?
Within five minutes, any intelligent, open-minded person can be convinced that the Holocaust gassings of World War II are a profitable hoax.

Fred A. Leuchter is America's leading specialist on the design and fabrication of execution equipment, including homicidal gas chambers. In 1988, Leuchter scraped samples from the alleged gas chamber walls in Auschwitz, Birkenau and Lublin. Cyanide residue would be clearly evident on all these walls if gassings did occur. To his astonishment, Leuchter found no significant cyanide traces in any one of these rooms.

In 1991, the Polish government repeated these tests to disprove Leuchter's findings, but they as well found no evidence of any gassings ever occurring.

The structural integrity of these "gas chambers" is also extremely faulty. These rooms have ordinary doors and windows which are not hermetically sealed! There are large gaps between the floors and doors. If the Germans had attempted to gas anyone in these rooms, they would have died themselves, as the gas would have leaked and contaminated the entire area. Also, no equipment exists to exhaust the air-gas mixture from these buildings. Nothing was made to introduce or distribute the gas throughout the chambers. There are no provisions to prevent condensation of gas on the walls, floors or ceilings. No exhaust stacks have ever existed.

Though six million Jews supposedly died in the gas chambers, not one body has ever been autopsied and found to have died of gas poisoning. We have been shown piles of bodies from World War II, but most of these persons died of typhus or starvation or Allied bombings and a great many of those were murdered Germans, not Jews. Roughly the equivalent of ten football fields should be packed full of gassed bodies to present as evidence, yet not one body has ever been discovered.

The Germans documented everything in meticulous detail from shrubbery to arbors, but no pre-war or wartime plans or documents exist that detail or even mention any gas chambers for reasons of genocide. All documents ever presented were drawn up AFTER the war.

Even if we threw away all the evidence and accounted for every so-called gas chamber, it would have taken 68 YEARS to accomplish gassing six million Jews!


Denying the conventional thesis regarding the holocaust will get you a prison sentence in Canada and in most of the E.U. including Germany.

But to press this lie on the lips of the German people and to force them to admit to the charge of genocide by gas chamber is an act of pure hatred .and will forever scar the integrity of the proud military traditions of Germany for all time.

Can you prove genocide by gas?

JimJones8934
April 28th, 2014, 05:35 PM
I think every line you have written is entirely false. There is plenty of evidence, including documentation from the Germans, eye-witness accounts from Nazi soldiers, as well as plenty of bodies that have indeed been autopsied. And if it didn't happen, what happened to the 6 million Jews?

kindlkeller
April 28th, 2014, 05:42 PM
I think every line you have written is entirely false. There is plenty of evidence, including documentation from the Germans, eye-witness accounts from Nazi soldiers, as well as plenty of bodies that have indeed been autopsied. And if it didn't happen, what happened to the 6 million Jews?

What happened? same thing that happened to all others that died during the war: they were KILLED by bombs , disease ,bullets ,starvation and so on..But NOT by gas..Unless you have some forensic evidence to the contrary..

JimJones8934
April 28th, 2014, 05:45 PM
What happened? same thing that happened to all others that died during the war: they were KILLED by bombs , disease ,bullets ,starvation and so on..But NOT by gas..Unless you have some forensic evidence to the contrary..

But we know that 6million Jews were forcibly taken from their homes and moved into concentration camps. And there is a great deal of forensic evidence, as well as eye witness accounts and documents from the ever-meticulous Germans. I think you're ignoring the facts here for no real reason and whether all 6m died through gassing or mainly gassing or whatever, the fact remains that 6m died at the hands of the Nazis. The method is really immaterial so I don't know why you're putting so much emphasis on it.

kindlkeller
April 28th, 2014, 05:52 PM
But we know that 6million Jews were forcibly taken from their homes and moved into concentration camps. And there is a great deal of forensic evidence, as well as eye witness accounts and documents from the ever-meticulous Germans. I think you're ignoring the facts here for no real reason and whether all 6m died through gassing or mainly gassing or whatever, the fact remains that 6m died at the hands of the Nazis. The method is really immaterial so I don't know why you're putting so much emphasis on it.

There is no dispute over the fact that large numbers of Jews were deported to concentration camps and ghettos, or that many Jews died or were killed during World War II. Revisionist scholars have presented evidence, which "exterminationists" have not been able to refute, showing that there was no German program to exterminate Europe's Jews, and that the estimate of six million Jewish wartime dead is an irresponsible exaggeration.

The Holocaust -- the alleged extermination of some six million Jews (most of them by gassing) -- is a hoax and should be recognized as such by Christians and all informed, honest and truthful men everywhere.

Here are the reasons that have impressed me as particularly persuasive in coming to my own conclusion that the Revisionist view of the Holocaust story is the correct one:

- There is no convincing or substantial evidence for the allegation of mass killings in gas chambers in the wartime German camps. Careful investigation -- in particular that carried out by American engineer Fred Leuchter -- has thoroughly discredited the "gas chamber" extermination claims.

- The most reliable statistics available cannot be reconciled with the legendary "six million" figure. The best evidence indicates that no more than a million, or perhaps a million and a half, European Jews perished from all causes during the war years.

- Neither the major Jewish organizations in the United States, nor the wartime Allied governments, nor the International Red Cross, nor the Vatican acted as if they seriously believed the wartime extermination propaganda.

- Although the German government kept extensive and detailed records of its wartime Jewish policy, not a single document has ever been found which substantiates or even refers to an extermination program or policy. Instead, the voluminous German records confiscated by the Allies at the end of the war clearly show that the German "final solution" program was one of emigration and deportation, not extermination.

- Even prominent Jewish "exterminationist" historians now acknowledge that the stories of gassings and extermination in camps in Germany proper are not true, in spite of the fact that such claims were once seriously made, particularly at the great Nuremberg Trial of 1945-1946.

- The Holocaust story now centers on just six former camps in Poland. The so-called "evidence" presented to prove mass exterminations in these camps is qualitatively no better than the now discredited "evidence" once cited for extermination in the camps in Germany proper.

- Much of the so-called "evidence" presented by "exterminationists" over the years has already been thoroughly discredited. For example, the well-known horrific photographs of piles of corpses taken in camps in western Germany at the end of the war are now acknowledged to be photos of victims of disease and malnutrition who perished as indirect victims of the war in the final weeks and months of the conflict. Also, so-called "confessions" -- such as those of Auschwitz commandant Rudolf Hoss -- have been shown to be untruthful and extracted by torture. Many of the official reports and testimonies presented as "evidence" by the prosecution in the Nuremberg trials have since been shown to be lies.

JimJones8934
April 28th, 2014, 06:17 PM
There is no dispute over the fact that large numbers of Jews were deported to concentration camps and ghettos, or that many Jews died or were killed during World War II. Revisionist scholars have presented evidence, which "exterminationists" have not been able to refute, showing that there was no German program to exterminate Europe's Jews, and that the estimate of six million Jewish wartime dead is an irresponsible exaggeration.

Well, unfortunately, the victors get to write the history. It's the history that we will stick to and a bit of exaggeration here or there, assuming there is any, is the eternal stain that Nazi Germany will have to live with. I think it's a very responsible approach - don't do crappy things to people or suffer the consequences.



The Holocaust -- the alleged extermination of some six million Jews (most of them by gassing) -- is a hoax and should be recognized as such by Christians and all informed, honest and truthful men everywhere.
Well, I'm an atheist so I don't see what being religious has anything to do with this. Besides, there is a great deal of evidence to support the numbers so if they're off they're not off by much.


- There is no convincing or substantial evidence for the allegation of mass killings in gas chambers in the wartime German camps. Careful investigation -- in particular that carried out by American engineer Fred Leuchter -- has thoroughly discredited the "gas chamber" extermination claims.
Well, engineering diagrams, eye-witness accounts and bodies say otherwise. Maybe, it wasn't 6m killed in gas chambers but you're just quibbling over nothing.


- The most reliable statistics available cannot be reconciled with the legendary "six million" figure. The best evidence indicates that no more than a million, or perhaps a million and a half, European Jews perished from all causes during the war years.
All six million have names and are accounted for by the survivors and German records! I have no idea where you're getting your information from!


- Neither the major Jewish organizations in the United States, nor the wartime Allied governments, nor the International Red Cross, nor the Vatican acted as if they seriously believed the wartime extermination propaganda.
This is true: nobody believed that such horrors could be perpetrated. But then nobody expected to take eugenics that seriously either! It's called being wrong about how horrible humans can be to each other. I don't think we'll be making that mistake again.


- Although the German government kept extensive and detailed records of its wartime Jewish policy, not a single document has ever been found which substantiates or even refers to an extermination program or policy. Instead, the voluminous German records confiscated by the Allies at the end of the war clearly show that the German "final solution" program was one of emigration and deportation, not extermination.

And other documents showing that extermination was a solution are being ignored by your good self.


- Even prominent Jewish "exterminationist" historians now acknowledge that the stories of gassings and extermination in camps in Germany proper are not true, in spite of the fact that such claims were once seriously made, particularly at the great Nuremberg Trial of 1945-1946.
Oh noes, some Nazis died innocent of having committed crimes. Why is it that I don't care?


- The Holocaust story now centers on just six former camps in Poland. The so-called "evidence" presented to prove mass exterminations in these camps is qualitatively no better than the now discredited "evidence" once cited for extermination in the camps in Germany proper.
Well, that's a shame nobody believes this so-called 'evidence'. To what end do you expect this denial to reach?



- Much of the so-called "evidence" presented by "exterminationists" over the years has already been thoroughly discredited. For example, the well-known horrific photographs of piles of corpses taken in camps in western Germany at the end of the war are now acknowledged to be photos of victims of disease and malnutrition who perished as indirect victims of the war in the final weeks and months of the conflict. Also, so-called "confessions" -- such as those of Auschwitz commandant Rudolf Hoss -- have been shown to be untruthful and extracted by torture. Many of the official reports and testimonies presented as "evidence" by the prosecution in the Nuremberg trials have since been shown to be lies.
Well, then they shouldn't have lied. Sounds to me as if they deserved to die if they perpetuated the terrible lie of the gassings - leading people astray. Nevertheless, there are other corroborating evidence to support the use of gas chambers. Your denials here may bear out the stories on the small, but the evidence for it having happened is large and well distributed. You are taking a couple of small examples of honest mistakes and exaggerating them to prove your point. But all they prove is that you are ignoring overwhelming evidence in favor of a couple of small stories.

MindTrap028
April 28th, 2014, 06:59 PM
One of the things they say to do is examine the alternate "conspiracies".
For example, is it more reasonable to think that the surviving Jews with tattooed proof of their eye witness nature, are making up stories?
It is certainly one thing for a few gov officials to falsify or destroy evidence, but coordinating hundreds of thousands of Jewish "eye witness" testimony has got to be harder than that.. yes?


@ Lindkeller..
You are providing a lot of bullet point talking points, but you really need to be providing a bit more substantial evidence.




At the Auschwitz I camp there were only 6 crematory ovens. At the hospital in Auschwitz II there are 46 single cremators. In the Lubin camp there were only 6. THAT'S ALL! In these three camps 3 to 4 million Jews were supposed to have been exterminated and their bodies cremated. Furthermore, these cremation ovens were very small with only 18' doors and required from 4 to 6 hours to burn each body using a large amount of coal. Cremation was used in the camps for those who passed away in order to prevent epidemics. No large supplies of coal were ever stored at the camps for cremations. A VERY INTERESTING NOTE appears only in the German edition of William L. Shirer's book, "The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich." It seems the Didler-Werke Company, which built the crematory ovens, sued Shirer who previously wrote that millions of people were gassed and then burned in this company's ovens. In an out-of-court settlement of the suit Shirer agreed to add the following footnote on page 972 of the German edition: "The Didler-Werke have raised objection to the name of their firm appearing in the chapter concerning the extermination camps. Dr. S. Trastel, a professor of engineering in a statement of August 1961 established that the measurements are those which are standard for a crematory oven of not very modern design intended for small cemeteries and would be unsuitable for mass burning." WHY IS THIS DELETED FROM THE ENGLISH EDITION???

On the question of cremating 6,000,000 people—this would leave 15,000 tons of ashes! Such gigantic piles of ashes created over the short 2 1/2 year period the holocaust supposedly took place would have been very difficult to dispose of. No one has ever come forward to report seeing such huge piles of tons of ashes. It was not until 1960 that the Soviets opened the Auschwitz camp to tourists and independent investigators. No gas chamber could be found. The official answer was that it was "taken to another camp for gassings and then later went into oblivion!
http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/wasthere.htm

Here the logistical issue of burning is brought up.

I've seen more detailed math calculations.. but couldn't find a link to them.

----
In regards to the claim that no gas residue was found.


Deniers have sought to capitalize on Leuchter's errors and ignorance of Auschwitz. They can do this because many people don't have the technical expertise on these issues to challenge Leuchter's credibility. However, in 1994 the Institute for Forensic Research in Cracow, Poland undertook a comprehensive examination of the structures identified by numerous eye witnesses as homicidal gas chambers. The Institute found traces of hydrocyanic acid in the six structures it tested. These were the remains of five crematoria and an execution block. Most disturbing for deniers is that the Institute found the greatest concentration of poison gas in the samples it tested from Crematorium II. Six of its seven samples tested positive. [7] By contrast, Leuchter claimed that he could not find any hydrocyanic acid in this structure. [8] This proved that Leuchter was either totally incompetent at best or dishonest at worst. The Institute's findings in Crematorium II also substantiated an earlier observation by denier critic Jean Claude Pressac, who viewed a tape of Leuchter's sample gathering, that Leuchter had purposely avoided those areas of Crematorium II which would yield positive results. [9] It may be relevant here that the Institute had the ability to take samples from places likely to collect residue, whereas even had Leuchter been honest, he could not do so as his collecting was done illegally because he lacked permission to gather samples.
http://www.holocaust-history.org/auschwitz/body-disposal/

Ibelsd
April 28th, 2014, 11:47 PM
Is the Holocaust a Hoax?
Within five minutes, any intelligent, open-minded person can be convinced that the Holocaust gassings of World War II are a profitable hoax.

Fred A. Leuchter is America's leading specialist on the design and fabrication of execution equipment, including homicidal gas chambers. In 1988, Leuchter scraped samples from the alleged gas chamber walls in Auschwitz, Birkenau and Lublin. Cyanide residue would be clearly evident on all these walls if gassings did occur. To his astonishment, Leuchter found no significant cyanide traces in any one of these rooms.

In 1991, the Polish government repeated these tests to disprove Leuchter's findings, but they as well found no evidence of any gassings ever occurring.

The structural integrity of these "gas chambers" is also extremely faulty. These rooms have ordinary doors and windows which are not hermetically sealed! There are large gaps between the floors and doors. If the Germans had attempted to gas anyone in these rooms, they would have died themselves, as the gas would have leaked and contaminated the entire area. Also, no equipment exists to exhaust the air-gas mixture from these buildings. Nothing was made to introduce or distribute the gas throughout the chambers. There are no provisions to prevent condensation of gas on the walls, floors or ceilings. No exhaust stacks have ever existed.

Though six million Jews supposedly died in the gas chambers, not one body has ever been autopsied and found to have died of gas poisoning. We have been shown piles of bodies from World War II, but most of these persons died of typhus or starvation or Allied bombings and a great many of those were murdered Germans, not Jews. Roughly the equivalent of ten football fields should be packed full of gassed bodies to present as evidence, yet not one body has ever been discovered.

The Germans documented everything in meticulous detail from shrubbery to arbors, but no pre-war or wartime plans or documents exist that detail or even mention any gas chambers for reasons of genocide. All documents ever presented were drawn up AFTER the war.

Even if we threw away all the evidence and accounted for every so-called gas chamber, it would have taken 68 YEARS to accomplish gassing six million Jews!


Denying the conventional thesis regarding the holocaust will get you a prison sentence in Canada and in most of the E.U. including Germany.

But to press this lie on the lips of the German people and to force them to admit to the charge of genocide by gas chamber is an act of pure hatred .and will forever scar the integrity of the proud military traditions of Germany for all time.

Can you prove genocide by gas?

Well your prime witness is a self-admitted fraud
"Leuchter has said he is not an engineer and misled people about his expertise"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_A._Leuchter

So, I think you'll have to throw away the evidence because it is based on an admitted fraud. On top of it all, plagiarism is not permitted here at ODN.
http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/holohoax.htm

If you wish to quote a source, then provide the link. Copying an article as your entire post is intellectually dishonest.

Frankly, your obsession with Jewish people is beyond irrational.

kindlkeller
April 29th, 2014, 02:50 PM
"Frankly, your obsession with Jewish people is beyond irrational. "

O.K. I got the warning about quoting material,fair enough. not a prob.

BS96
June 15th, 2014, 10:27 AM
I think the central flaw in holocaust denial is the very objective. Why would anti-Semitics CHOOSE to deny the holocaust? Surely the event was very much in line with their racial and social ideology and they would thus support it. Do you agree?

Squatch347
June 29th, 2014, 08:20 AM
Presumably for the same reason they deny the historicity of ancient Israel, the more they can remove the Jewish people from a historical context, the more easily they fit into the conspiracy context often favored.

Liveline
July 10th, 2014, 11:29 PM
Logically speaking...6 million Jews? In groups...gassed in a matter of three-four years? How many gas chambers were there? Of course there is always the question if history class was exaggerating it. I've heard that the good guy bad guy story replayed could up the number a bit. Who said: "We will gas the Jews, and burn them." I seek some kind of quote here.

Squatch347
July 14th, 2014, 05:32 AM
Logically speaking...6 million Jews? In groups...gassed in a matter of three-four years? How many gas chambers were there? Of course there is always the question if history class was exaggerating it. I've heard that the good guy bad guy story replayed could up the number a bit. Who said: "We will gas the Jews, and burn them." I seek some kind of quote here.

Why is "6 million" so unreasonable in your mind? More Ukranians were killed by the Russians in a shorter period. Rwandans were killed at a faster rate during their genocide (though the total numbers were lower). Given the large infrastructure the Nazi's dedicated to this purpose 6 million is actually a bit low. If they had actually adhered to simple killing it would have been higher, but they often worked Jews for months or years, which increased their chance of liberation.

I would point you to more recent research that showed the infrastructure behind the holocaust was actually much larger than initially expected. Researchers have always thought the total number of ghettos and camps was around 7000, but more recent work showed quite a few temporary camps and smaller neighborhood ghettos responsible for "quick liquidation." The total number now stands closer to 42,000. http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/new-estimated-size-holocaust-apparatus-study-article-1.1277839

As for your request for evidence concerning the Nazi desire to initiate the "Final Solution" that is actually pretty well documented. If you would like the full on academic treatment of the development of this policy I would point you to: [B]Browning, Christopher R. (2004). The Origins of the Final Solution : The Evolution of Nazi Jewish Policy, September 1939 – March 1942. Comprehensive History of the Holocaust. Lincoln: University of Nebraska Press. ISBN 0-8032-1327-1.

If you would like something a bit less rigorous, I would point out that this is actually two phased decisions. Phase one was part of Operation Barbarossa, in which SS units (known as Einsatzgruppen) were attached to German formations on "independent duty" and which followed advancing panzer forces to eliminate local Jewish populations now in German territory. "Panzer Battles" (great book) discusses this from a German staff officer's point of view during the war.

A problem arose following the invasion as German military staff began complaining of the massive manpower drain these independent SS units were taking on German line formations. The draw of material and soldiers (which the SS got the top crop of and priority on resupply for both categories) was becoming critical to future German actions against increasing Soviet formations.

As a result, several conferences were held as working groups on the "Jewish Question." Reichsführer-SS Heinrich Himmler was one of the main architects of the details of the plan. Hitler seems to have bought off quite early on the idea of camps and so several different underlings vied for the final adopted plan as part of their attempts to get deeper into the inner circle.

This power struggle led the high command to convene the Wannsee Conference for which we have quite a bit of historical evidence, which planned the administrative details and assigned responsibilities. It produced a protocol (a copy of which was captured by the Allies at the end of the war), the full text of which can be found here (http://www.writing.upenn.edu/~afilreis/Holocaust/wansee-transcript.html) and which shows a clear agreement between different administrative units within the government to move forward on the development of camps and extermination procedures.