Reality vs. The Mentally Ill

[KneeLess]

Finally, I have a decent intellectual conversation, a nice vacation from the normal pedestrian conversation. I asked a good comrade of mine, "Is reality subjective?" This, bien sur, opens up a storm of controvesy, of which, none can be proven or disproven. Fun. I believe there are two main possibilities in this unsolveable mystery: One static and never changing reality, or multiple, even infinite realities. In my opinion, I believe the latter holds the most water. But please even though I mention the Christian Church, try to keep this discussion mainly secular.

1. One Reality. The one reality theory is an interesting one, it requires a, how do I say this, a Christian mind. Now let me explain that. I say Christian mind as the method that the Church teaches: this is how it happened, this is how it is, there is no alternative, everyone else is wrong. (I am not bashing the church in anyway, I am a member myself.) For the one static, what "sane" people see, feel, and think is reality, i.e., there is a general unspoken consensus on what it is. If you do not see what the consensus defines, then you are insane. For example, let's say the consensus is the current one in our world (if you don't know what that is, commit yourself to your local insane asylum), and what you see is that everyone is infact shapeshifting monsters out to kill you because you know that they are shapeshifting monsters. People wouldn't understand you, you would speak constant gibberish, if you will, and you would be committed to your local institution for the mental. You are insane, and that is "improper". One reality, one truth.

2. Multiple Realities. The multiple reality theory is more kind to the, if I may, mentally unstable. It simply says that reality is what you create for yourself. If you think that everyone is a shapeshifting monster out to get you, then, it's true. They are. It's your reality. Still there is still the main consensus reality, and every other reality is based off of that. It does not include say, realities that are based in different dimensions (because we have never experienced that, so one might say that realities are based off of experience). This theory also institutes a level of fear, myself included. Let me explain. You, as you are right now, may just be a simple pipedream of a insane man in a insane aslyum. Everything you have ever done, accomplished, just doesn't exist, it was only a dream. Scary, no? Because really, if you believe that what you see, feel, and hear is real, then it is, right?

Any other thoughts on this?

[Apokalupsis]

#2 is like the Matrix "reality" then?

[KneeLess]

#2 is like the Matrix "reality" then?
No, maybe I spoke my point unclearly. Basically the second theory is saying that there is the general reality, what most people see, and then there are an infinite number of sub-realities, existing in cults, brainwashing, where the world around you isn't the same world everyone else lives in. Kind of like the joke, "I'm here on Earth, where are you?" Maybe kind of like Nightmare on Elm St. 1? So it's saying that people who are insane, aren't really insane, just living in a different reality. I guess the matrix would be the majority of the reality, then be the general one and the actual reality is a smaller one. But I'm not talking about virtual reality or drugs in any way. But I guess prolonged drug use could make someone view the world in a different reality. It's quite hard to explain this point, as you can see. But I hope you can grasp my idea.

[Withnail]

I'm not sure if I totally get what you are saying.

Both of your options seem to deal with how we as humans interpret reality.

In your "One Reality" option I would substitute our ability to understand reality through Science, and not some absolute Dogma. For instance, there is one true reality that we try and interpret through human senses and understanding, that we struggle to agree upon. Perhaps here we could use the adage of the blind men and the elephant.

Your "multiple realities", where each individual interprets their own reality, is what the Human experience is, but not reality. That is a truly frightening thought about "losing your grip" on reality. Schizophrenics, for instance, do have there own reality. To them it is real, hearing voices, seeing things, all real. In school I'd worry myself about developing Schizophrenia. The confusion, the fear being the only clues that something isn't right.

Regardless, different humans see reality and interpret things differently. It's all filtered through our human mind. That doesn't change reality necessarily.

[KneeLess]

Regardless, different humans see reality and interpret things differently. It's all filtered through our human mind. That doesn't change reality necessarily.

You see I wrote that a long time ago, I extracted it from a log, and I didn't revise my words, a bad decision. But what I'm saying is personal reality, as in everyone has their slightly own different reality. Some are worse than others, and some so much, that they are unfit for society, hence the mentally ill. But reality is merely defined as truth, and what is truth? Being factual? To whom? I guess one could say the majority. So, I guess I can surmise that there is the main reality, and people within that reality differ slightly, but still functionally fit according to it. And everyone who isn't, may not know that they are insane, the world has changed around them. Maybe they haven't changed at all, in a philosophical sense, but of course they have in a psycholigal sense. This remains a very hard concept to fully describe, so let me try once more.

Let's take Tito for example. Tito is a normal human, nothing really deviant or anything. He now is part of the main reality. But then for some unknown reason, he starts to hear things, see things he doesn't understand. People start talking in different voices, many things are disproportionated, and he doesn't quite understand what's going on. To him, he still thinks the same and acts the same way, but to other people he is a nutjob. He is in his own reality. To the people in the main reality, Tito is unfit for society and placed in an insane aslyum. Maybe he's not crazy, just his body's dischiphering of the information, differently. Therefore to him, everyone else is crazy, and we think he is. I think that's the best I can explain it.

[Withnail]

But reality is merely defined as truth, and what is truth? Being factual? To whom? I guess one could say the majority.


There is no reality by consensus. Or at least there shouldn't be. Your question of "what is reality" is a great and basic philisophical question and I'm really not prepared to address it.

Think of the major events of the world. We only really know about them through the news, a sort of filter that we believe in. How do we know that these events are real?

I'm not sure if that's it. I willl argue that anyone or any group who claim's to firmly grasp reality should be viewed suspiciously. If anyone claims to have all the answers than they have ulterior motives. Life is a big quest, a big question. The joy is in the seeking. Or something.

[KneeLess]

There is no reality by consensus. Or at least there shouldn't be. Your question of "what is reality" is a great and basic philisophical question and I'm really not prepared to address it.

Think of the major events of the world. We only really know about them through the news, a sort of filter that we believe in. How do we know that these events are real?

I'm not sure if that's it. I willl argue that anyone or any group who claim's to firmly grasp reality should be viewed suspiciously. If anyone claims to have all the answers than they have ulterior motives. Life is a big quest, a big question. The joy is in the seeking. Or something.
Well said. But what I'm talking about is more of a personal generic reality then a worldwide generic reality. It's more like an island. On this island there are five people. Of those five people, one is having problems. The normal island life isn't what it used to be. He's seeing things, Gizmo popping up every now and again, and whenever he tries to talk to the other four, they don't know what he's talking about. His mind is slowly slipping into something that noone understands, not even him. Now he's in Bedrock, living as Barney, best friend of Fred. To him, everything is now fine in Bedrock. The other four people are scattered about the characters in the Flinstones and he converses with them all the time. The other four people know for a fact that he's crazy. Now the four people are the general reality, the consensus. Barney (the odd one out) is the "insane" one. But is he insane? Or just in a different reality that's perfectly veritable? This can also be applied to the real world, but not in the way you spoke of Withnail. I'm saying that a "sane" person is part of the generic reality, while an insane one has his own.

[FruitandNut]

There is but one reality, but there are many interpretations. As Pontius Pilatus put it to Jesus, "What is truth"?

We all have some slant on reality with some definitions being perhaps more obtuse than others. All of us are subject to our genetic makeup and our 'experiences' in this respect.

Even, so called 'madness' is part of the same reality; subject to the same law of cause and effect.

What is 'madness' anyway if not an interpretation of cultural perception? We Brits are several times more likely to be diagnosed as 'schizophrenic' if we are on Uncle Sam's side of The Pond than our own!!!!!!

There is nothing more frightening to behold than to see or hear a person who 'feels' (an irrationality anyway) certain that they have a grasp on all the facts and are therefore (English English) shielded by truth and reality from any meaningful and rational challenge.