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Spartacus
February 18th, 2006, 06:31 PM
OKay -- so now there is $1 million bounty on the head of the cartoonist who drew the offensive cartoons. Apparently the Mullah who put out the contract did not know there were in fact 12 cartoonists who drew the offending images.

Muslims here in the West, at a conference in Suburban Chicago today, say we here do not understand the revernce they have for their prophet or we would understand.

This position beautifully illustrates the vast chasm between us.

1.) No holy person in the west would remain well respected for long if they put out a hit on anyone -- let alone a cartoonist.

2.) The Muslims are wrong because Christians in the West understand very well what is involved. We were outraged when an "artist" displayed a holy crucifix in urine. The vast difference though is although Christians in the west might "feel" like they want to kill the offender and his supporters, they in no way would ever condone such actions.

3.) Islam though endorses killing. Christianity does not.

4.) The vast majority of Muslims are decades and even centuries behind the West not only in technology, education, and literacy -- but also -- sadly in some basic concepts of universal rights humans have on this planet.

I fear this chasm will never be filled...or if it is to be filled, it will require the corpses of countless people for decades to come -- no matter what the US does or does not do. What liberals fail to realize is that if the US were to pull out of the Middle East entirely tomorrow -- the muslims would celebrate the next day -- and then commence their plans for how to continue to kill infidels in the West on the day after their big party. It would be only moments before they found some perceived offense worthy of killing and dying for.

Where are the liberals tio denounce these "clerics"? Are they afraid they will end up on the hit list? Well here's some news -- we are all already on their hit list. Everyone in the West has a price on their head, whether they are in New York, Madrid, London, Denmark or anywhere where freedom of speach is seen as a basic human right and women have equal rights under he law.

The current war is not just a war on terrorism. It is a war against fundamental, reactionary muslims. It is a war against intolerance. It is a war to establish and insure a universal ideal of basic human rights. Chief among these is the ability to speak freely without having a "cleric" put a contract on your head, and a woman not being viewed as "property" or a 2nd class citizen.

The world today is too small and technology too powerful for us to abandon what we have begun to do. We no longer have the option of hiding behind two vast oceans.

FruitandNut
February 18th, 2006, 11:12 PM
Spart - There were newspaper headlines here in the UK yesterday to the effect that 'we' are facing 50 years of terrorism. I would suggest that this is if anything an optimistic summary of the situation.

For Islam to change it must see Mohammed for what he really was, and to do that they must look at the early 'satanic' abrogated texts alongside of all the other stuff. For Islam to do this would not so much cause it to change as to disintergrate. That is precisely what the more progressive clerics are most fearful of and the fundamentalist clerics would never countinence.

Snoop
February 19th, 2006, 10:24 AM
Cartoonists work under contract all the time - what's the problem here? Revise their contracts to include "No religious slander allowed".

from <CITE>The Peg-Board</CITE>, the newsletter of the Motion Picture Screen Cartoonists and Affiliated Optical Electronic and Graphic Arts, Local 839 IATSE.

Now is the time for all good union members ...

<CITE>to help write and negotiate their next contract</CITE>


Negotiations are due to begin within the next few months on a new collective bargaining agreement, replacing the current contract that expires at midnight on October 31. The membership meeting on May 28 will focus on determining what demands should be included in the new contract, and soliciting volunteer members to serve on the Negotiating Committee.

President Tom Sito and Business Representative Steve Hulett have pledged to continue the strategy that has succeeded in recent negotiations -- that of letting the working members themselves negotiate their own contract. Therefore, members will be present and actively participating in all contract negotiation sessions. Any active member in good standing is eligible for participation in the Negotiating Committee.

Since there is no animation equivalent to the A. M. P. T. P., the producers' association that collectively bargains on behalf of management with the live-action unions, it remains to be seen exactly what form this year's talks will take. Most likely there will be a combination of joint-employer sessions and talks with individual employers, with the union's Negotiating Committee configured to meet circumstances as they arise.

Given the current boom times in animation, it might seem the best of all possible times to negotiate for better terms and conditions in a screen cartoonists' contract. But as our topsy-turvy 1993 talks proved, even in boom times management may prove loath to abandon their seemingly limitless (and shameless) search for union givebacks. The union negotiators need to be flexible, but ready for whatever management tries to dish out.

Local 839 stands ready and willing to bargain in good faith to reach agreement on the document that gives us our strength and purpose -- the union contract.

http://www.mpsc839.org/_Pegboard/Pegboard_h/_PB_1996/PBDG9605.HTM

Spartacus
February 19th, 2006, 01:08 PM
Cartoonists work under contract all the time - what's the problem here? Revise their contracts to include "No religious slander allowed".

from <CITE>The Peg-Board</CITE>, the newsletter of the Motion Picture Screen Cartoonists and Affiliated Optical Electronic and Graphic Arts, Local 839 IATSE.

Now is the time for all good union members ...

<CITE>to help write and negotiate their next contract</CITE>


Negotiations are due to begin within the next few months on a new collective bargaining agreement, replacing the current contract that expires at midnight on October 31. The membership meeting on May 28 will focus on determining what demands should be included in the new contract, and soliciting volunteer members to serve on the Negotiating Committee.

President Tom Sito and Business Representative Steve Hulett have pledged to continue the strategy that has succeeded in recent negotiations -- that of letting the working members themselves negotiate their own contract. Therefore, members will be present and actively participating in all contract negotiation sessions. Any active member in good standing is eligible for participation in the Negotiating Committee.

Since there is no animation equivalent to the A. M. P. T. P., the producers' association that collectively bargains on behalf of management with the live-action unions, it remains to be seen exactly what form this year's talks will take. Most likely there will be a combination of joint-employer sessions and talks with individual employers, with the union's Negotiating Committee configured to meet circumstances as they arise.

Given the current boom times in animation, it might seem the best of all possible times to negotiate for better terms and conditions in a screen cartoonists' contract. But as our topsy-turvy 1993 talks proved, even in boom times management may prove loath to abandon their seemingly limitless (and shameless) search for union givebacks. The union negotiators need to be flexible, but ready for whatever management tries to dish out.

Local 839 stands ready and willing to bargain in good faith to reach agreement on the document that gives us our strength and purpose -- the union contract.

http://www.mpsc839.org/_Pegboard/Pegboard_h/_PB_1996/PBDG9605.HTM


What is this -- an awful attempt at sarcastic humor?

Snoop
February 19th, 2006, 01:13 PM
What is this -- an awful attempt at sarcastic humor?No - I was serious (it was a play on words). If a contract is written with that provision (no religious slander), then firing a cartoonist would be proper and legal. The same contract can be used for editors. In your own words: "The current war is not just a war on terrorism. It is a war against fundamental, reactionary muslims. It is a war against intolerance." If you chose to be intolerant - that is your choice.

How ironic is it that when I try to be serious, I am mistaken for being sarcastic, and when I am being sarcastic, I'm taken seriously?

Contracting for a hit on cartoonists is criminal - there is no debating that.