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View Full Version : Hitler. One of the greatest oratories to have ever existed?



Overmyhead101
June 13th, 2006, 05:53 PM
Do you think he was? I know he was a physicotic rasict, sexist, homophobic, and egotistical bastard. However, that man could speak! Don"t you think?

Dr. Gonzo
June 13th, 2006, 06:03 PM
Do you think he was? I know he was a physicotic rasict, sexist, homophobic, and egotistical bastard. However, that man could speak! Don"t you think?
I dunno I guess maybe...it's not really that hard to get millions of unemployed people to follow you if you employ them.

Take a look at FDR.

He wasn't even that good of a speaker, but he got millions to follow them. How? By doing the same thing as Hitler...providing them with jobs.

FruitandNut
June 13th, 2006, 08:44 PM
A lot of Hitler's speeches were renowned for their lack of actual substance - particularly those he made during the Nuremberg Rallies - but what he did create was an 'atmosphere' of great things to come for the German (Ayrian) Peoples.

He used 'Blood and Soil' and mythical past glories to unify, and Neitzscherian and Darwinian concepts to 'justify' any observed 'brutality'.


There is an old British Army maxim that holds true for much of Hitler's oratory - "Bullsh*t baffles brains." It is an even older maxim since it is a translation of, "Taurus excreta cerebrum vincit", oft recited among the Roman Legions as they polished their brasses and went about the chores of cleaning and shining.

KevinBrowning
June 13th, 2006, 09:48 PM
Do you think he was? I know he was a physicotic rasict, sexist, homophobic, and egotistical bastard. However, that man could speak! Don"t you think?

I'm not fluent in German, but he certainly appears inspiring, simply from his presentation and sheer emotion. His effect of mass ecstasy on large crowds is well-documented. He was a great propagandist.

Anyway, I agree that he was quite bigoted, but I dispute the claim that he was psychotic. He was a sane man, just very evil and mistaken in his beliefs. Of course he became paranoid and delusional later on, but to excuse him for his actions by labeling him as mentally ill, with little evidence, is sort of a cop-out.

It's a sad fact that men such as Hitler, Stalin and others knowingly ordered these types of atrocities, without being impaired by some mental defect. Human nature is a terrible thing, left to its own devices.

Brittany
June 14th, 2006, 07:50 AM
I think in ways he was kind of a genius.I mean after all he did manage to take over germany.

FruitandNut
June 14th, 2006, 10:36 AM
Britanny - Read up on the things that allowed him to seize power - things like the hard time some of the victorious Allies gave post WWI Germany. The fact that the German Military did not feel defeated. They returned to their homeland in marching columns and with their weapons. Many of the soldiers felt betrayed by the politicians - it was an armistice (cessation of hostilities) rather than a full blown surrender. The Wall Street Crash, the Great Depression, a weak Weimar Government and rampant hyperinflation had Germans craving for strong leadership that promised better things. The Communists tried to take over, but the Right Wing and business interests resisted them. There was open violence in the streets that involved machine guns and even small artillery pieces. Hitler and the National Socialists cynically and opportunistically used the situation to their advantage. At any other time in German history Hitler most likely would have ended up dead in the street or languishing in prison a lot longer than he did.

Overmyhead101
June 14th, 2006, 11:56 AM
I'm not fluent in German, but he certainly appears inspiring, simply from his presentation and sheer emotion. His effect of mass ecstasy on large crowds is well-documented. He was a great propagandist.

Anyway, I agree that he was quite bigoted, but I dispute the claim that he was psychotic. He was a sane man, just very evil and mistaken in his beliefs. Of course he became paranoid and delusional later on, but to excuse him for his actions by labeling him as mentally ill, with little evidence, is sort of a cop-out.

It's a sad fact that men such as Hitler, Stalin and others knowingly ordered these types of atrocities, without being impaired by some mental defect. Human nature is a terrible thing, left to its own devices.
True, he may not have started out insane, but by the end he was.
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I dunno I guess maybe...it's not really that hard to get millions of unemployed people to follow you if you employ them.

Take a look at FDR.

He wasn't even that good of a speaker, but he got millions to follow them. How? By doing the same thing as Hitler...providing them with jobs.
True, but what hitler did, was he also provided hope for a depressed nation. He was more or less a hero in the germans eyes unlike FDR

Dr. Gonzo
June 14th, 2006, 12:11 PM
True, but what hitler did, was he also provided hope for a depressed nation. He was more or less a hero in the germans eyes unlike FDR
He DID provide hope for the nation, albeit through global domination and perpetual employment. I'm not really sure what you are saying.

Overmyhead101
June 14th, 2006, 12:14 PM
He DID provide hope for the nation, albeit through global domination and perpetual employment. I'm not really sure what you are saying.
I am saying that FDR was unliked by more americans then Hitler was unliked by germans. Kinda like a poupularity contest.
Hitler ( Fake numbers) 89%
FDR ( fake numbers) 75%
Do you get it now?

Dr. Gonzo
June 14th, 2006, 12:42 PM
I am saying that FDR was unliked by more americans then Hitler was unliked by germans. Kinda like a poupularity contest.
Hitler ( Fake numbers) 89%
FDR ( fake numbers) 75%
Do you get it now?
Well the only people in America who hated FDR were the people who supported freedom and liberty. I would guess that there were a whole bunch of Jews who didn't like Hitler.

Also it is strange to note how both of these despots had such high approval ratings.

Dr.Jackle
June 14th, 2006, 12:48 PM
Well the only people in America who hated FDR were the people who supported freedom and liberty. I would guess that there were a whole bunch of Jews who didn't like Hitler.

Also it is strange to note how both of these despots had such high approval ratings.
Lol, yeah i don;t think the numbers where that high.

Dr. Gonzo
June 14th, 2006, 12:55 PM
Lol, yeah i don;t think the numbers where that high.
Actually the unfortunate thing is that they WERE really high...especially during the New Deal and Germany's equivalent programs.

Dr.Jackle
June 14th, 2006, 12:57 PM
Actually the unfortunate thing is that they WERE really high.
Really? That is unfortunate.....:dunno:

Dr. Gonzo
June 14th, 2006, 03:43 PM
Really? That is unfortunate.....:dunno:
Yup...it is. Amazing how quick people are to support such absurd promises as "creating wealth through government".

Neither or them were particularly brilliant speakers...it doesn't take much to convince a starving person that bread is good.

Dr.Jackle
June 14th, 2006, 03:45 PM
doesn't take much to convince a starving person that bread is good.
Wow, Good argument . I would like to see what they say, wouldn't you?
[ Bread=good] oh yes that is the new slogan of hitler and fdr

Merlin
June 14th, 2006, 06:36 PM
I've never seen a video of his oratory (on my to do list). But from second hand information I know Hitler as an almost hypnotic sloganizer, whose speechs while lacking sound ideas, were especialy apealing to people the worship the past

On the other hand he was appealing to a recently beaten country whose leaders had pulled out weeks before utter devastation, Thus they were "stabbed in the back". They were poor and he promised a glorious future. He protected them from the mysterious, evil Socialist.

He was the wrong person at the wrong time.

FruitandNut
June 15th, 2006, 08:35 AM
Merlin - I recommend you view - Leni Riefenstahl's - Triumph des Willens (Triumph of the Will), 1935

It is a masterpiece of propaganda based on the Nuremberg Rallies and features some of Hitler's speeches. What is also noticable is the 'air of expectation' that comes across in her film; it is as though the crowds, Hitler Youth and the soldiers are awaiting their 'Messiah' to arrive. Most university and public libraries have a copy or two on video or DVD.

http://www.riefenstahl.org/director/1935/


Leni Riefenstahl was a diehard unrepentant Nazi until the day she died.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leni_Riefenstahl

Dr.Jackle
June 15th, 2006, 09:45 AM
Either way you put it, He could persuaythe nation.

Blood Lull
June 15th, 2006, 03:15 PM
It is thought by some that Hitler used high frequency sounds emitted by speakers that were too high to hear as a tool to spark and excite listeners.

Dr. Gonzo
June 15th, 2006, 03:24 PM
It is thought by some that Hitler used high frequency sounds emitted by speakers that were too high to hear as a tool to spark and excite listeners.
Do you have any proof of this?...cause that would be pretty interesting.

Dr.Jackle
June 15th, 2006, 04:54 PM
It is thought by some that Hitler used high frequency sounds emitted by speakers that were too high to hear as a tool to spark and excite listeners.
Where is your proof?

Merlin
June 15th, 2006, 07:21 PM
Intriguing idea, but i believe psychology was in it's infant years back then, it was also considered a Jewish science.
Fruitandnut:Thanks for the recommendation,but my darn small town library doesnt carry it or anything like it

tinkerbell
June 15th, 2006, 11:44 PM
I know many of the Germans were actually unaware of what was happening to the Jews during that time.

FruitandNut
June 16th, 2006, 12:28 AM
Intriguing idea, but i believe psychology was in it's infant years back then, it was also considered a Jewish science.
Fruitandnut:Thanks for the recommendation,but my darn small town library doesnt carry it or anything like it

Doesn't your library have an inter-library request arrangement. Over here in the UK for a small fee we can request a search/borrowing of books and other items that will then be sent to your library for you to borrow. This includes access to the British Library sites.

mog
June 16th, 2006, 01:28 AM
I know many of the Germans were actually unaware of what was happening to the Jews during that time.

They might not have been aware that mass executions had started as the war began, but the overtly anti-Jew laws passed throughout the '30s could not have escaped notice. Hitler had indeed persuaded the majority of Germans that Jews were not worthy of citizenship and had no rights.


Neither or them were particularly brilliant speakers...it doesn't take much to convince a starving person that bread is good.
Or watermelon.

http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/834/thumbhitlerwatermelon0zp.gif

tinkerbell
June 16th, 2006, 07:16 AM
They might not have been aware that mass executions


Yeah, many were VERY unaware of the murders and suffering endured my the Jews. My father was a POW in a German prison camp. They had people there that had been at the camps. He said when they would tell the stories of what was happening at the camps the Germans would cry. That so many just had no clue.

Ibelsd
June 16th, 2006, 11:47 AM
I am saying that FDR was unliked by more americans then Hitler was unliked by germans. Kinda like a poupularity contest.
Hitler ( Fake numbers) 89%
FDR ( fake numbers) 75%
Do you get it now?

1. You must support this claim. I understand you are estimating, but the claim that Hitler had a higher approval than FDR should be supported.
2. While you attempt to do this, keep in mind:
a. Hitler imposed a dictatorship and poll numbers may not be reliable.
b. When the poll was taken may also make quite a difference. (i.e. how
would the folks of Dresden polled before and after their city went up
in flames)?

Dr.Jackle
June 16th, 2006, 02:45 PM
1. You must support this claim. I understand you are estimating, but the claim that Hitler had a higher approval than FDR should be supported.
2. While you attempt to do this, keep in mind:
a. Hitler imposed a dictatorship and poll numbers may not be reliable.
b. When the poll was taken may also make quite a difference. (i.e. how
would the folks of Dresden polled before and after their city went up
in flames)?
It was a fake poll. Didn't you read that?

FruitandNut
June 16th, 2006, 02:56 PM
Yeah, many were VERY unaware of the murders and suffering endured my the Jews. My father was a POW in a German prison camp. They had people there that had been at the camps. He said when they would tell the stories of what was happening at the camps the Germans would cry. That so many just had no clue.


tinks - A huge number of Germans became aware of what was going on as the war progressed. Many of the soldiers had seen what was going on, or had actually been involved. The people living in the neighbourhood of the concentration camps could smell what was coming out of the cremetoria chimmneys. Most were afraid to question, or were in denial.

Turtleflipper
June 16th, 2006, 03:38 PM
tinks - A huge number of Germans became aware of what was going on as the war progressed. Many of the soldiers had seen what was going on, or had actually been involved. The people living in the neighbourhood of the concentration camps could smell what was coming out of the cremetoria chimmneys. Most were afraid to question, or were in denial.

But I don't think they could have possibly know the extent. It defies imagination. The sites and sounds of war were common, so the greman people wouldn't be too moved by a few hundred POWs getting offed. To say they knew what was going on, i believe, is extreme. Nothing like the holocaust had ever happened in the entire history of humanity.

Comparmentalization can do wonders to hide the scope of an atrocity.

Dr.Jackle
June 16th, 2006, 03:40 PM
But I don't think they could have possibly know the extent. It defies imagination. The sites and sounds of war were common, so the greman people wouldn't be too moved by a few hundred POWs getting offed. To say they knew what was going on, i believe, is extreme. Nothing like the holocaust had ever happened in the entire history of humanity.

Comparmentalization can do wonders to hide the scope of an atrocity.
Completely un-true. The " cleansing" BEGAN in germany.I would think they would notice their jewish citizens just going poof.

Turtleflipper
June 16th, 2006, 03:42 PM
Completely un-true. The " cleansing" BEGAN in germany.I would think they would notice their jewish citizens just going poof.

They didn't just go poof. They were sent to ghettos. Then a few thousand were deported. Likely the German citizenery thought the same about the rest of them.

Dr.Jackle
June 16th, 2006, 03:47 PM
They didn't just go poof. They were sent to ghettos. Then a few thousand were deported. Likely the German citizenery thought the same about the rest of them.
Okay, but what you where saying is that the didn't know what was happening, yet they did. They saw the conditions of the ghettos and the trains full of people being dragged into the country side of germany.

Turtleflipper
June 16th, 2006, 03:50 PM
Okay, but what you where saying is that the didn't know what was happening, yet they did. They saw the conditions of the ghettos and the trains full of people being dragged into the country side of germany.

The german majority believed they deserved the ghettoes. The propoganda had the entire population envious of Jewish affluence. Remember, Hitler painted the jews as the cause of all problems.

And the trains could be said to be going to deportation.

Dr.Jackle
June 16th, 2006, 04:49 PM
And the trains could be said to be going to deportation.
All the way across the nation?

Turtleflipper
June 16th, 2006, 04:53 PM
All the way across the nation?

Before airlines, how else do you get millions of people out of the heartland and into other countries?

Dr.Jackle
June 16th, 2006, 04:54 PM
Before airlines, how else do you get millions of people out of the heartland and into other countries?
Hehehehe i can think of some odd ways.

Ibelsd
June 19th, 2006, 08:13 AM
It was a fake poll. Didn't you read that?



1. You must support this claim. I understand you are estimating, but the claim that Hitler had a higher approval than FDR should be supported.

You were making a claim, weren't you? It was a fake poll, but you were making an argument based around it

Dr.Jackle
June 19th, 2006, 09:50 AM
You were making a claim, weren't you? It was a fake poll, but you were making an argument based around it
It wasn't my argument I AM NOT OVERMYHEAD!!!!!!!! for the last time! :)

Ibelsd
June 19th, 2006, 01:27 PM
It wasn't my argument I AM NOT OVERMYHEAD!!!!!!!! for the last time! :)

Yes, that is true. Why, then, did you make the rebuttal as though you were him? lol.

cat's meow
July 4th, 2006, 10:25 PM
Britanny - Read up on the things that allowed him to seize power - things like the hard time some of the victorious Allies gave post WWI Germany. The fact that the German Military did not feel defeated. They returned to their homeland in marching columns and with their weapons. Many of the soldiers felt betrayed by the politicians - it was an armistice (cessation of hostilities) rather than a full blown surrender. The Wall Street Crash, the Great Depression, a weak Weimar Government and rampant hyperinflation had Germans craving for strong leadership that promised better things. The Communists tried to take over, but the Right Wing and business interests resisted them. There was open violence in the streets that involved machine guns and even small artillery pieces. Hitler and the National Socialists cynically and opportunistically used the situation to their advantage. At any other time in German history Hitler most likely would have ended up dead in the street or languishing in prison a lot longer than he did.

Yes, read, Read, READ...

His writing (the actual text of speeches) made little sense most of the time and many Germans who were interviewed after the war (WWII) noted Hitler took 5-10 minutes to even 'warm up' during a speech, sort of aimlessly wandering; clips that you see of him are very flattering. Most recently somone noted that , "to distinguish Hitler's speeches from other speakers is to find the worst grammar used of the two." This is NOT a good speaker. The above text is perfect to consider and the German people were desperate for a leader. A great American hero of that time, Charles Lindburgh even had some misleading views on Hitler after seeing AH speak. Lindberg provided Americans with a portrait of the European war that differed substantially from the one conceived by the Roosevelt administration; CL was traveling in Europe from 1935-39 and offered a view that was almost favorable of Hitler.

In his book The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich, William L. Shirer wrote,
A foreigner, no matter how anti-Nazi, could come to Germany [from 1933 to 1937] and see and study what he liked — with the exception of the concentration camps and, as in all countries, the military installations. And many did. And many returned who if they were not converted were at least rendered tolerant of the “new Germany” and believed that they had seen, as they said, “positive achievements.” Even a man as perspicacious as Lloyd George, who had led England to victory over Germany in 1918, and who in that year had campaigned with an election slogan of “Hang the Kaiser,” could visit Hitler at Obersalzberg in 1936 and go away enchanted with the Fuehrer and praise him publicly as “a great man” who had the vision and the will to solve a modern nation’s social problems — above all, unemployment.



NUREMBERG

SPEECH OF SEPTEMBER 6, 1938, Adolf Hitler
THE proof of the endowment of a true artist is always to be found in the fact that his work of art expresses the general will of a period. Perhaps that is most clearly shown in architecture.... The religious mystical world of the Christian Middle Ages, turning inwards upon itself, found forms of expression which were possible only for that world - for that world alone could they be of service. A Gothic stadium is as unthinkable as a Romanesque railway station or a Byzantine market hall. The way in which the artist of the Middle Ages, of the beginnings of the modern world, found the artistic solution for the buildings which he was commissioned to create is in the highest degree striking and admirable. That way, however, is no evidence that the conception of the content of life held by the folk of his day was in itself either absolutely right or absolutely wrong; it is evidence only that works of art have rightly mirrored the inner mind of a past age. It is therefore quite comprehensible that insofar as the attempt is made to carry on the life of that past age, those who search for solutions of artistic problems can still seek and find there fruitful suggestions. Thus one can easily imagine that, for instance, in the sphere of religion men will always work backwards to the form-language of a period in which Christianity in its view of the world appeared to meet every need. On the other hand, at the present moment the expression of a new view of the world which is determined by the conception of race will return to those ages which in the past have already possessed a similar freedom of the spirit, of the will, and of the mind. Thus, naturally, the manifestation in art of a European conception of the State will not be possible through civilizations, as, for example, the civilization of the Far East, which - because foreign to us - have no message for our day, but will rather be influenced in a thousand ways through the evidences and memories of that mighty imperial Power of antiquity which, although in fact destroyed fifteen hundred years ago, still as an ideal force lives on and works on in the imaginations of men. The more nearly the modern State approaches to the imperial idea of the ancient World-Power, so more and more will the general character of that civilization be manifested in its influence upon the formation of the style of our own day.

This first paragragh rambles and makes little sense...he is saying a lot of words to baffle people and then hits them later with GERMANY, OVERALL! KILL THE JEWISH SCURGE! WE MUST TAKE THE LANDS THAT ARE RIGHTFULLY OURS! These are very bold statements and he is masterfull at DOUBLE AND TRIPLESPEAK to warm them up.

As Jim Jones put it...I have told you that I am God and you know I am...the Kool-aid tastes fine, have a drink.

Dayve
July 5th, 2006, 09:17 AM
Hitler was a great orator, possibly one of the best ever. I don't speak German yet i feel a tingly rush of adrenaline when i watch his speeches on the History/Discovery channel... So there has to be something to it. Before he came to power Germany was basically a third world country... A few years after he came to power Germany was once again strong like it was before WWI and jobs were plentyful... Imagine you are a German living in that time.. You wouldn't look up to this man too?

Lets just imagine that a man comes to power in Africa, a totally divided, poor, starving nation, unites the people, gets everyone a job, develops an economy and a military, makes the country worth something... You wouldn't look up to him too?

On the holocaust - Many Germans knew it was happening. Aside from rumours, the occasional soldier would return home on leave and tell people what he had seen... These would then be spread around as rumours... People living close to camps in Germans would see suspicious things, Russian villagers would see mass executions in broad daylight as they happened close to their houses, Polish citizens would see the conditions inside the ghettos, people laying dead in the street from starvation... I've seen a documentery, i forget what it was called, and in it, an old woman tells how she was stood in the street talking to her neighbours about how Hitler is leading Germany into destruction and how they are sending thousands of jews to camps designed specifically for killing them... And she says how the neighbours told her to be quiet otherwise someone would report her and she will too end up in one of these camps.

The German people knew... Mostly.

Archemike
October 10th, 2006, 05:48 PM
The reason his speaches were so effective you ask?
He had a gun pointed at you if you didn't cheer and follow...

I always told myself, Imagine the power of Hitler with the Benevolence of, say, St. Thomas Aquinas... ||

FruitandNut
October 15th, 2006, 10:01 AM
His speeches were often rambling, it was the settings and the 'theatre' that were impressive; you just need to see the film 'Triumph of the Will' to appreciate that.

Pasipo
October 17th, 2006, 02:54 PM
I didn't read the whole thread, but Overmyhead is right in that historically, Hitler is considered to be one of the greatest speakers ever. They call him the silver tongued devil, and other such titles. There is one reason that might give clue, and brings light to his "warm ups", he was heavily addicted to amphetamines and was injected with them several times a day including when he woke up and before his speeches. His personal physician's papers, along with papers from others close to Hitler, talk about his addiction and what it did to him. Watch for it on the History channel, they have a special about it they play sometimes.

Snoop
January 13th, 2007, 10:00 AM
This supports the OP - he sure could rap:

Hitler Rap - CollegeHumor video (http://www.collegehumor.com/video:248327)

:grin:
LOL
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I wonder if Hitler would have had the same appeal without the bad moustache?

FruitandNut
January 13th, 2007, 10:42 AM
I always thought his moustache, strutting and gesticulating made him look a bit ridiculous.

Have any of you seen the Canadian edit of the Nuremberg Rallies -it is a hoot; when Goebells saw it he had a tantrum - well Germans often have a problem with humour!

Clips from this film (ref: to 'Triumph of the Will') were used in an Allied propaganda short (reportedly the work of a Canadian film editor) set to the British dance tune, "The Lambeth Walk". The legions of marching soldiers, as well as Hitler giving his Nazi salute, were made to look like wind-up dolls, dancing to the music. (Complete with slow and quicktime forward and backwards stuccato marching and saluting with some 'German' voice bits.) Nazi propaganda chief Josef Goebbels is reported to have seen a copy of the short film and was outraged beyond reason, leaving his screening room kicking chairs and screaming profanities.

Here is a vid clip site with a bit on, do a search using 'Nazis Do the Lambeth Walk, 7th January 1942'
History - VideoJug (http://www.videojug.com/category/history)