PDA

View Full Version : 350lb man killed...who is responsible?



Apokalupsis
December 3rd, 2003, 07:02 PM
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,104721,00.html


The death of a 350-pound black man who was clubbed by police in a videotaped beating was caused primarily by the struggle that ensued after the suspect lunged and swung at the officers, the coroner said Wednesday in a case that has heightened racial tensions.

Much of the media as well as special interest groups are claiming that Nathaniel Jones' death was caused by police brutality, especially since the coronor stated the death was to be classified as a homicide.

What we don't see on the mainstream media footage, is Jones charging police officers, locking one of them in a headlock. He was on PCP, which of course is one of a cop's worst nightmare scenerios since PCP gives the user a boost of strength and rage due to the lack of the sense of pain that may be felt.

I think it's quite clear that this is NOT an issue of police brutality and that this guy got beat as he did because he resisted, even attacked the police officers. He was higher than 10 hippies, pissed off, aggressive, had high blood pressure, incredibly overweight...

Are the police to be blamed for this? Did they use excessive force? Or is this just another case of the "race card" being thrown out there w/o justification?

Jordan
December 3rd, 2003, 07:33 PM
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,104721,00.html

Much of the media as well as special interest groups are claiming that Nathaniel Jones' death was caused by police brutality, especially since the coronor stated the death was to be classified as a homicide.

What we don't see on the mainstream media footage, is Jones charging police officers, locking one of them in a headlock. He was on PCP, which of course is one of a cop's worst nightmare scenerios since PCP gives the user a boost of strength and rage due to the lack of the sense of pain that may be felt.

I think it's quite clear that this is NOT an issue of police brutality and that this guy got beat as he did because he resisted, even attacked the police officers. He was higher than 10 hippies, pissed off, aggressive, had high blood pressure, incredibly overweight...

Are the police to be blamed for this? Did they use excessive force? Or is this just another case of the "race card" being thrown out there w/o justification?

I agree, he provoked the beating. My mom who is an oncology nurse gave her opinion on the story, for someone who has high blood pressure (such as himself) the last thing you would want to do is take cocaine because according to her it drastically raises your blood pressure, resulting in the enlarged heart.

With cocaine also, they say you can have super-normal strength, sort of like what happens when your body goes into "fight or flight" mode when your in danger, the man despite the beatings continued to get up and fight, from the video it looked like he could not stay down.

Homestar Runner
December 4th, 2003, 05:41 AM
Not police brutality at all. If they is someone that is endangering your life, and they weigh 350 pounds and don't feel pain, you have a lot of trouble on your hands. That fact that he weighed 350 pounds and was taking a stimulant seems to me that the cops had the right to use ALL force neccesary force to take him down. Now, this doesn't mean they should have killed him, but I do not believe that they killed him anyways. When they get the autopsy back they'll probably find some kind of blood clot or anyurism that killed him.

Booger
December 4th, 2003, 10:16 AM
Are the police to be blamed for this? Did they use excessive force? Or is this just another case of the "race card" being thrown out there w/o justification?

There are many more facts to come about this incident that will (and already have) raised serious questions about the police officers' actions. First, the coroner ruled that the death was not caused by drug use, hypertension, etc.; rather, his death was classified as a homicide. Second, the police officers failed to recognize and analyze the situation critically. Among other things, they continually insisted that a 350 pound fat man put his arms behind his back, which, by all accounts, is next to impossible without assistance. In addition, the police officers recognized that he was suffering from some sort of mental problem but failed to react to the situation accordingly. Third, although police officers have the right to defend against an assailant by utlizing their training with a nightstick, they also have a duty to protect the welfare of those in custody. As we know, the police officers failed to render CPR to the suspect after they realized he stopped breathing and stood around doing nothing, other than to call the paramedics back to the scene, which took almost 2 minutes (also, if you view the tape carefully, you see the police officers all standing around his lifeless body and a couple of them are laughing). Had the police officers immediately rendered CPR, he may still be alive. That, in itself, is enough to assign blame to the police officers. I do believe, however, that the actual force used to subdue him was appropriate and within the boundaries of permissible use of force. It's their actions before and after the beatings that raise serious questions as to the police department's actions with respect to dealing with black suspects that causes such outrage.

I'm outraged by this, I have to admit. Not because the police officers were using force against a person that was certainly using force against them, but because (1) due to my biases and personal experience with cops (and in the interests of full disclosure will admit that I pretty much uniformly despise cops) lead me to believe that Jones' actions were provoked and that they could have, but didn't handle the situation in an appropriate manner and (2) did not render aid to a suspect in their custody which could have saved his life.

And...with respect to the "race" card, it is unbelievably naive to posit that police brutality against black people is nothing more than sham made up by those who would nefariously use the "race" card to their advantage. Police brutality and just general disrespect towards African Americans is real, dangerous, and sad. Let's not forget, since 1995, Cincy police have killed 15 people...all of whom were black. "The fact that African-Americans are over-represented is not surprising," said Professor David Harris of the University of Toledo College of Law. "There are more contacts between African-Americans and law enforcement on a per capita basis than there are between police and whites, when we're talking about an officer-initiated contact. That's going to translate into more potential for this kind of conflict." The issue of race in police shootings and racial profiling has been raised across the country, most recently in Cincinnati where Timothy Thomas, 19, was killed April 7 while fleeing officers trying to arrest him on 14 minor warrants.

Apokalupsis
December 4th, 2003, 11:01 AM
If it is true that a) police provoked him, and/or b) they did not try to save his life when they should have...then yes, they should be held accountable. I think this is unarguable. However, as of now, I don't see this being the case.

Also, the homicide was chosen as the form of death because there was no other category that was applicable. It was not suicide nor natural.

I do believe that the beatings contributed to the death. But this is different than saying they are responsible and the officers should be held accountable as a result.

It would be like someone with a stroke, a poor heart, very high blood pressure, only able to lift 20 lbs, wanting to get into a fight with Mike Tyson. It only takes a tap by Mike to do serious damage do this guy. While this tap would have been the "catalyst", it is ONLY the catalyst due to the other variables (stroke, heart, hypertension, weakness, choice to provoke Mike).

Jones was no weakling. He was a serious threat...AND he attacked police officers. Always a no-no.

Also, the race-card is applicable here I believe. By default, it seems that any occurance with a minority and the police, the police have to be racist in motivation. The facts of Jones lunging and knocking a cop back, resisting arrest, being high, have coke and 3 laced cigs in the car doesn't matter...he's black, there were cops...therefore, racism is in play.

While racism can always be a factor, it should not by default, be concluded that it is.

Swedish
December 19th, 2003, 01:16 PM
Does is always have to be all about White Police Brutality to Black people? I have never heard of a White person beating a minority of a different race, or a Black cops beating a white person, ect ect ect. If I am wrong, please show me another "similar yet different" case.

I'm thinking this is a bias in the media and Black Activists itself, cause police brutality to specifically Black people is always a hot topic. When have I heard that Black people shot a white man to death (or a similar incident where the minority dishes the cruelty) recieve as much a hype as this?

Andrew
January 11th, 2004, 06:02 PM
This is what i think that guy was pcp and the cops had no choice but to defand them selfs.k

RTShatto
January 11th, 2004, 07:42 PM
Does is always have to be all about White Police Brutality to Black people? I have never heard of a White person beating a minority of a different race, or a Black cops beating a white person, ect ect ect. If I am wrong, please show me another "similar yet different" case.

I'm thinking this is a bias in the media and Black Activists itself, cause police brutality to specifically Black people is always a hot topic. When have I heard that Black people shot a white man to death (or a similar incident where the minority dishes the cruelty) recieve as much a hype as this?Well actualy if you live in Southern California, most likely in the run down areas of L.A. and its neighboring cities, you might actually see cops doing things that arent necesary.

And its not always black people who get harrased, but then again it works both ways, theres paranoia, and some cops dont like to get messed with every time they get called down to investigate a disturbance only to be yelled at for doing his/her job.

Ive heard of multiple cases involving "police brutality" in my area, I think the hot topic about a year and a half ago was about this cop who hand-cuffed this 15 year old black kid and slammed his face into the car. I mean this kid was hand-cuffed...and it was filmed, but the cop claims that the black kid grabbed his nuts, but the camera doesnt show that because the car is in the way.

Some kids even brag about having confrontations with the cops, its like some kind of innitiation into something really stupid for them...

FruitandNut
April 2nd, 2004, 11:21 PM
Who is responsible - well perhaps to an extent the guy himself. But there is the culture of MacDonalds, KFC, Coke etc. to consider. So many fast foods in this fast world are stuffed full of cheap and unhealthy fillers.
Perhaps the market, oh, and politicians, and advertising, and peer group pressures, and pressures at work, and pressures at home, and maybe a dysfunctional childhood, may also enter into the equation? Perhaps our version of consumerist society is overdue a rewrite?

Oh, and perhaps the police arn't taught how to arrest 350ibs of quivering citizen in their Academies. With the increasing incidence of obesity in western society, something clearly needs addressing.