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View Full Version : "Civil War" or "Sectarian Conflict"



manise
November 24th, 2006, 12:20 PM
Yesterday, Sunni Iraqis killed over 200 Shiite Iraqis in Baghdad.

Today, Shiite Iraqis seeking revenge burned alive scores of Sunni worshipers in a Baghdad mosque, and launched other attacks around the city.

The city remains in lock down tonight.

Can we agree that Iraq is in a civil war now, or is the politically correct "sectarian conflict" still the operative term at ODN?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15873863/

Snoop
November 24th, 2006, 12:53 PM
Call it what you like - it's a failure no matter how you slice it.

Dr. Gonzo
November 24th, 2006, 01:14 PM
Manise...you're such a liberal *****....

Everyone knows that its a freedom bloodbath.

Yuruusan
November 24th, 2006, 03:20 PM
Manise...you're such a liberal *****....

Everyone knows that its a freedom bloodbath.

AHahahaaha gonzo rocks.
wheres kevin, kevin give us your analysis of this situation. kevin can one up ANYONE with his rumsfeldian way of thinking

3rdPersonPlural
November 24th, 2006, 04:28 PM
So what can we do? Leave? Slink off with our tails between our legs and our visions of a new world order disappearing over the Iraqi horizon?

Democracy requires a capacity to trust the opposition and to compromise, as well as the rule of law. If we keep troops there long enough so that we can kill everyone who is either untrustworthy or distrusting, then there will be peace and installing the rule of law will be easy and THEN what? We will have victory! There will be a flourishing democracy of 100 or so true Iraqi citizens with that thousand mile stare and we will beneficently manage their oil reserves by pumping and consuming it for them!

More importantly, without a noble cause to galvanize the American people, America will slip into the malaise of liberalism and tolerance and our youth will fear nothing but a tedious Saturday night and then we will be over run by all those disenfranchised foreigners convinced that they can work harder and contribute more.

KevinBrowning
November 24th, 2006, 11:31 PM
I don't think the term civil war is inaccurate at this point. But is it really surprising? Democracy does not happen overnight.

manise
November 25th, 2006, 07:10 AM
I don't think the term civil war is inaccurate at this point. But is it really surprising? Democracy does not happen overnight.Actually, it's not surprising, especially after reading the 2002 pre-war CIA intelligence estimate that gave "civil war" as a worst case scenario for our invasion.

Civil wars, like democracy, don't happen overnight either. They need sparks and stoking and lots of kindling.

Dr. Gonzo
November 25th, 2006, 07:45 AM
Actually, it's not surprising, especially after reading the 2002 pre-war CIA intelligence estimate that gave "civil war" as a worst case scenario for our invasion.

Okay once again you are inserting unfounded premises into your arguments. First of all you are assuming that Bush not only CAN read but DID read the pre-war intelligence data.

When liberals get angry at neocons for being ignorant and moronic it is their fault for thinking that presidents and leaders should be able to think coherently.

Manise...you'll be much happier if you stop holding Bush and other neocons to the same standards as you would hold a rationally thinking 16 year old, but instead hold them on intellectual par with mentally retarded five year olds...aim low and you won't be disappointed.

mog
November 25th, 2006, 02:57 PM
It remains arguable, although still irrelevent in my opinion. Iraq still has a democratically elected government that includes representation from all the major ethnic groups, and which apparently still has the power to lock-down a city after a surge of violence.

manise
November 25th, 2006, 03:11 PM
It remains arguable, although still irrelevent in my opinion. Iraq still has a democratically elected government that includes representation from all the major ethnic groups, and which apparently still has the power to lock-down a city after a surge of violence.The attacks continued today despite the lockdown. Shiite death squads burned Sunnis alive. The situation is deteriorating by the day. Cheney rushed to Saudi Arabia yesterday for emergency consultations. They want the Saudis to intercede on our behalf with the Sunnis. A little late in the game, don't you think?

It's not just semantics. The 2002 CIA Intelligence Estimate predicted a civil war. That pre-war report did not dissuade The Decider from doing the dirty deed.

We will eat this sh*t sandwich earlier than many people thought possible, even myself. Not even Vietnam deteriorated this rapidly--just 3 years into the war.

Stealth
December 5th, 2006, 01:18 PM
Civil War requires a society. Since Iraq is not a society, it can not be in a state of civil war. It is sectarian violence.

However if we are using the terms only to refer to the level of violence we mean, civil war would be best, since it calls to mind a greater level of violence than the former term.