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  1. Replies
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    Re: Secular Morality vs. Non-Secular Morality

    Not even close. A person goes to trial for murder, is convicted then later over turned in subsequent trial.
    That process has nothing to do with if murder is legal or not, it has to do with if the...
  2. Re: Does an "unemployment problem" ever actually exist?

    Yea I think I see your distinction and I agree with it. Not having work is not a problem, not having access to things we need is the problem.
    .. hence the star trek tie in.
  3. Re: Does an "unemployment problem" ever actually exist?

    The problem that comes to mind for me, is that assuming everyone had one.. who is going to come fix mine when it breaks?
    What do we do with all the trash?... who is going to pick that up?

    And...
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    Re: Secular Morality vs. Non-Secular Morality

    Not that I'm aware of. Especially in regards to morality.


    I don't see how. Laws and legality is a "fact" that can change.
    It is incontrovertibly a fact that today it is illegal to do XYZ.
    ...
  5. Re: Does an "unemployment problem" ever actually exist?

    I don't think this is just a semantic point you are making.

    First the point of a job is to earn money, and the point of money is to do what one wants to do. Retirement is basically having enough ...
  6. Re: Increasing the Minimum Wage hurts those most vulnerable in our society.

    Frank Apisa.. I think the general response to your assertion is that more jobs are created by technology. For example, most people had to farm, but when tec freed people from the farming jobs...
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    Re: Secular Morality vs. Non-Secular Morality

    My point is that no society does that, or can.
    Such that criminals are charged as though the crime is incontrovertibly illegal. Sure it may later become legal, but then it forwarded so...
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    Re: Secular Morality vs. Non-Secular Morality

    Well, I agree we apparently have different understandings of the meaning of Dogmatic. I think however that you have not "shown" or "explained" you have simply stated that there is some distinction I...
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    Re: Are ODN "atheists" theophobiacs?

    I don't see how that effects my point. Mine is about the incoherence of neutrality on this issue.



    Indeed, but that is not neutrality.
    You may be open to change, but your not neutral.
    ...
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    Re: Are ODN "atheists" theophobiacs?

    But I can live my life consistently with not knowing the number of Jelly beans and not having an opinion on it. That is what my argument centered around. The fact that a person can't live their lives...
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    Re: Is the Trump presidency that bad?

    The oil spill did not make the moratorium, Obama did, and it is that action that put people out of work.
    So, I am blaming him for HOW he cleaned it up, and the fact that it put people (specifically...
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    Re: Secular Morality vs. Non-Secular Morality

    Frankly there is no such thing as a society that has no dogmatic influences present. Even societies that throw off on dogmatic influence is only trading it for another. It is not even a logical...
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    Re: Is the Trump presidency that bad?

    So, I have had the pleasure of not watching just about any "news" since the election. Really, really little the last few months.
    Everything seems fine. Obama put me personally out of work for...
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    Re: Are ODN "atheists" theophobiacs?

    There is a bank account with a million dollars.
    What do you think the options are for my beliefs as far as my ownership of that account?

    Do you think I can say, "I don't believe it is mine, but...
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    Re: Are ODN "atheists" theophobiacs?

    That sounds like faith.


    Well, your describing an attitude, and a logic that isn't necessarily inferred from the data. The attitude you are describing is more in line with allowing someone else...
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    Re: Are ODN "atheists" theophobiacs?

    But they won't try things they don't believe in to some level. They pray to God and not something else for a reason, and that reason is belief.
    So it stands as evidence that they deny a belief they...
  17. Re: Mind Trapped by - Police vs Citizens - Reaching for a gun?

    I think on the most practical level, if I got exactly what I ask for. All we are talking about is police changing their verbiage.
    In other words instead of saying "he reached for his waist, so I...
  18. Re: Mind Trapped by - Police vs Citizens - Reaching for a gun?

    The main point is that realty must line up for citizens, where as for police they are not held to reality, only their own fears and thoughts matter.
    Of course civilians are not given their...
  19. Re: Mind Trapped by - Police vs Citizens - Reaching for a gun?

    IBELSD -
    So, there are a few things. First i agree with you that there were a lot of things wrong and a lot of broken links. however, I think you have some facts wrong about the incident. There...
  20. Re: Mind Trapped by - Police vs Citizens - Reaching for a gun?

    The event in the hallway, is actually an example of how the police did a lot of things right. I mean, the man was shot 5xs, and that was the direct result of an officer using a fully automatic rifle....
  21. Re: Mind Trapped by - Police vs Citizens - Reaching for a gun?

    https://www.yahoo.com/gma/la-man-arrested-over-swatting-incident-led-police-072205194--abc-news-topstories.html

    Here is another story, where an officer shot and killed an unarmed suspect, based on...
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    Re: Secular Morality vs. Non-Secular Morality

    I was talking about in your specific model. It does not address how it is a applied to the minority. Specifically in a non dogmatic way.


    Well, that is a problem because your OP requires such a...
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    Re: Secular Morality vs. Non-Secular Morality

    What about when people don't agree. specifically the minority.



    Two things. First, I have seen religion do this in regards to us law. So religion is not inherently opposed to this.
    Second, you...
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    Re: Secular Morality vs. Non-Secular Morality

    Is that forwarded dogmatically?


    So then SM can't be enforced at all?


    the end result seems the same. Be it by democratic agreement by the majority onto the minority, or by dictatorship....
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    Re: Secular Morality vs. Non-Secular Morality

    As I generally consider my gov to be based on moral principles of a Dogmatic religious base, I don't see how that supports your point.
    I see the ideology of communism as an official form of...
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    Re: Secular Morality vs. Non-Secular Morality

    Yes, and I said I was willing to accept that the counter examples don't fall into SM as you have defined it.
    My objection has moved then to the second point.



    No, I can't think of any....
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    Re: Secular Morality vs. Non-Secular Morality

    Again, how is the op not dogmatic in regards to SM?


    First I'm completely willing to accept your rejection of the counter example I gave. My problem is that I don't see the OP as then internally...
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    Re: Secular Morality vs. Non-Secular Morality

    They were not Religious atrocities, they were "state" atrocities. Atrocities done in the name of the state, not in the name of a religion.
    So it doesn't fall under RM.

    Or else SM doen't exist...
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    Re: Secular Morality vs. Non-Secular Morality

    I would object to 4.
    - SM conflict resolution is based on skeptical inquiry. ..etc.

    I would say that the millions of dead people from the conquest driven secular social morals of socialists...
  30. Mind Trapped by - Police vs Citizens - Reaching for a gun?

    --The incident---
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYRRSdjdcbo
    The above video is the body cam from the officer who shot and killed Daniel Shaver.

    The basics are, swat responded to a call,...
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