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  1. Re: Antifa and BLM are Terrorist Organizations

    Well, actually that is what the word acquitted means. But I assume you mean that in a more objective sense, IE what would we say if we had perfect knowledge?

    Regardless, they were charged as you...
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    Re: Slavery and the bible as a moral guide

    My pleasure, you've offered some positions I hadn't considered and am glad you entered the thread.



    I think this is a variant of the problem of evil. If God is good, why do we see evil or...
  3. Thread: ODN Changes

    by Squatch347
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    Re: ODN Changes

    I wanted to point out that I shared the exact same concern Galendir has. There is a hedge that Apok was willing to grant me. I downloaded many of my threads just so I would have the specific...
  4. Re: Antifa and BLM are Terrorist Organizations

    No, though as the article notes, these conspiracy charges are often used intentionally by DOJ in domestic terrorism trials.



    Well given that conviction is the adjudication of the charges that...
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    Re: Slavery and the bible as a moral guide

    I meant no disrespect, the point I initially responded to was a fundamental premise, so tackling it alone made more sense, imo, than addressing points that later would change if this premise was in...
  6. Re: Antifa and BLM are Terrorist Organizations

    Just a factual insertion, this trial had the same charges used against other Domestic Terrorists including a few ecoterrorists. The Jury returned a Not Guity verdict on 6 counts.
    ...
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    Re: Sigh ...

    This really does clarify what you are attempting to get across. I believe you are using the word "mandate" in a non-standard way (more on that in a second), which also explains why you have...
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    Re: Slavery and the bible as a moral guide

    Let's start here because this is where the moral question lies. You are a soldier, you've just defeated an enemy army and come upon a village with a young girl whose father and brothers are now...
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    Re: Slavery and the bible as a moral guide

    I understand, thank you for letting me know.



    Sure. 2 is the better explanation I think to what you are asking.

    1) The simplist explanation is that it is claim the OP added without...
  10. Re: Increasing the Minimum Wage hurts those most vulnerable in our society.

    To add to the evidentiary support for this OP, a couple of new studies have come out over the last few months that are relatively novel, one because it was the official government study with...
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    Re: Slavery and the bible as a moral guide

    This response, and the one below it are simply “nu-uh” claims. Simply reasserting a claim and ignoring the rebuttal doesn’t constitute a response. Do you have any relevant data to add?


    You...
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    Re: Slavery and the bible as a moral guide

    So any number of people coming together and dealing with morality outside of a religious system constitutes our shared moral system? So when NAMBLA came together and discussed and concluded that...
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    Re: Slavery and the bible as a moral guide

    Not exactly. I said that under a Deontological ethics system there would likely be a rule like "don't lie." Breaking that rule would generally be an immoral act.

    There would also likely be a...
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    Re: Slavery and the bible as a moral guide

    Not exactly, I was saying that a deontologist or someone who holds a deontological moral code (IE rules not outcome based) would hold that lying is wrong (the rule). As is letting a murderer murder...
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    Re: Slavery and the bible as a moral guide

    Well, I would imagine that Deontologists would agree that the action is not morally problematic because of the circumstances, but that that doesn't make the underlying action moral. And all of this...
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    Re: Slavery and the bible as a moral guide

    That's exactly the point. The immoral act of lying (I think we can all agree that lying isn't morally neutral) leads to moral result, because it is the least immoral act available to you in that...
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    Re: Slavery and the bible as a moral guide

    I want to start off exploring more about what you mean when you say there is a “secular moral code” and how you know what that code is. You indicated that you knew that “we” (who exactly do you mean...
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    Re: Slavery and the bible as a moral guide

    First, let me applaud your improved use of hermeneutics. However, you’ve made a slight error here. The original text is in Hebrew, not Greek. Translating from Greek, an indo-european language into...
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    Re: Slavery and the bible as a moral guide

    I would suggest you need to apply more rigorous hermeneutics to your readings. The Verses mentioned allow for lifetime ownership, they do not mandate it. Hence the term “May.” May means a...
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    Re: Slavery and the bible as a moral guide

    Well, that does seem to be your position, however, it doesn't appear that you've taken much effort to define the term in the Biblical context. You are appealing to chattel slavery, involuntary, life...
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    Re: Slavery and the bible as a moral guide

    Setting aside MT's correct point that your definition of slavery does not match the Bible's definition, from where do you draw this conclusion? You seem to be appealing to some other moral code here,...
  22. Re: Increasing the Minimum Wage hurts those most vulnerable in our society.

    This study was commissioned by the city council and has one of the most robust access to data procedures yet encountered.
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    Re: The Living Wage and Moral Obligation

    You explain your premise as subjective. That is what a subjective premise means, that it relates to you. You see it as a problem, not that it is an objective problem, right?

    And the conclusion...
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    Re: The Living Wage and Moral Obligation

    And if the argument here was "someone thinks it is a moral problem that people make less than a living wage" we'd be fine (well except that it is in a debate forum). But the problem is that that...
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    Re: The Living Wage and Moral Obligation

    If the premises are all subjective and the conclusion subjective, this isn't an argument, its just an explanation of your personal opinion. Your entire OP, in that scenario, changes from defending...
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    Re: The Living Wage and Moral Obligation

    Well you initially entered the argument into a thread on the MW, which is what that argument is, and put forward that the MW is not enough to support an "acceptable life style." But be that as it...
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    Re: The Living Wage and Moral Obligation

    Exactly! The argument as offered does not follow (requiring additional premises is the definition of not following).

    In order to tie an objective statement that is true regardless of who is...
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    Re: The Living Wage and Moral Obligation

    The is/ought difference is not the relevant factor in a subjective vs. objective claim. What you are defining here is the difference between a claim and an opinion.

    It doesn't matter if the...
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    Re: Increasing the Minimum Wage hurts those most vulnerable in our society.

    Fine, then your conclusion doesn't follow. If the premises are subjective, there is no connection to derive that the conclusion should apply objectively.

    For example:

    P1) Steve is allergic...
  30. Thread: Hello!

    by Squatch347
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    Re: Hello!

    Hi Sovietchild, now that you've made a few posts, are you still only able to see a few threads?
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