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So it is your claim that the founding fathers made the distinction between "humans" and "people/persons"?




I specifically asked you to defend your claim about the constitution without using...

agic;568020]Just because something is difficult doesn’t mean it can’t be realized. Again, consider that the more awareness we can discover, the more self evident truth becomes to us.
[/QUOTE]

I...

It isn't necessarily moral to kill some one to prevent a rape, though it probably could be moral in a given circumstance.



I didn't say it was a moral act.



You don't, it doesn't vary...

Given the limited information offered, it could be a moral action, however, there could certainly be circumstances I am unaware of that would make it immoral.



Look closer, I said "the way you...

From the quote you were responding to, it indeed looked as if this was what your position boiled down to.



and again, to quote me:
I believe I said can, not must.
"Either way, emotions do...

Oh, well then, when you put it that way, we should base laws on life/death decisions on emotions...…...



Um ya, 3/4 of the way down a long post starting in the middle of a paragraph.
Problem...

This is why I commonly use more than one word when describing the idea I am trying to get across as I have no interest in semantic debate.



In a discussion about abortion common sense leans...

The way you describe it, I'm not sure there is a truth that is universal, and if there was it could quite easily be unknowable???



The human mind as a "sense" is a pretty unique perspective and...

A majority would make considerable more sense but I don't see it as a requirement.
Also, He used numerous methods in the past. Now the only method left is the Bible and no way of knowing it is the...

For this conversation it amounts to the same thing.



I understood. Emotion is an unstable foundation for the many reasons already submitted. You have also agreed that it is not a basis for a...

You are a breath of fresh air in an otherwise smoky room :)

---------- Post added at 03:55 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:20 PM ----------



This scenario could make it quite difficult...

Please show me in the US constitution where it speaks of a fetus rights or lack there of.

(Not the 1973 SCOTUS interpretation of the constitution or any other interpretation for that matter.)
...

Here is a significant difference between us.

When a person is an ass to someone and they are an ass back, it seems all that has happened is they have let themselves be lowered to the level of an...

Well then, prepare to stand corrected again...

Actually I supported it with two links, but as those cases seem to have left you less than impressed let us see what the gov't actually has to say on...

Hmm, same things I been sayin....just sayin...



If objective morals do not exist it would be hard to make a blanket statement like:
"X is necessarily immoral always"

A simple majority sounds preferable state. A variety of methods makes sense as we are dealing with variety of people.



I was kidding, you should know I am skeptical of gov't involving...

;)



Except in my case on occasions...




Ok.

Yes, our legal system can be quite convoluted...




How does this relieve someone of their bodily autonomy as in it's ok to kill them?
This criteria applies to other groups as well....

You say you "get that" but you obviously do not, so I will try again :)

I see no reason to accept objective morals exist currently, so it appears to me we are left with subjective morals. That...

I, like everyone, want to be right. However, I am quite sure that there are things I believe that are correct that are not. I actively search out these beliefs, so if you can, I would actually...

We are discussing the legality of abortion, you can't use abortion being legal as support for why abortion is legal....
tiresome




This is sooooooooooo not true.
The gov't makes all kinds of...

I will just address the main points of your post:

So an abortion can not be murder because the gov't shouldn't legally know it's taking place?
Correct?

---------- Post added at 02:07 PM...

I showed it is inconsistent and incorrect.

Mican, I am much more interested in a well reasoned post than how fast that response is.




non sequitur

I have three aquariums (mostly cichlids), this is fun but not true...



Actually I embrace it (as evidenced by the lil smile faces when it happens should you happen to notice).
In fact, every...

Indeed, things certainly do not have to be real to affect our world view dramatically!




I definitely do not understand???

I thought had been proposing the soul and the mind are one?

At the risk of being redundant, since I have shown the folly and inconsistency of this position, it is an important point probably worth repeating.

When a pregnant woman gets murdered, the...

Perhaps in the other thread may fit better, but ok, we can discuss it where/when ever.



My original comment was more like the criteria you had provided was arbitrary.
I'm curious why (in this...

Sorry you feel this way. I thought we had made some progress and I still sense some room left to go, but I am out of time tonight.

I will get to the rest of this post shortly and endeavor to keep...

Basing decisions on "emotion" is indeed:
"random, unguided, and without reason"

as such, those decisions will change as the emotions change...





Ok

1. As long as this "bodily autonomy and self-determination" doesn't involve the needless killing of a human I'm good with it.
2. The bodily autonomy that matters is the right to life for that life...