Welcome guest, is this your first visit? Create Account now to join.
  • Login:

Welcome to the Online Debate Network.

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed.

Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 27
  1. #1
    Registered User
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    180
    Post Thanks / Like

    Having Sex With A Relative

    What would happen if you asked your Rabbi, Priest, Pastor etc. if it was a sin to sleep with your daughter or cousin? My guess is that you would get a resounding YES! If that is the case then please explain all of the inbreeding that went on in the bible. For example, Cain and Abel, along with three sisters, (who I don't know the names of), had to have had sex in order for us to even be here at all. And that is just the beginning of the book, it gets more sordid. Then you have Lot doing the "Wild Thang" with his daughters in a cave. And I am sure that there are more examples. Is this biblical contradiction? You decide.
    "If you can not battle words with words and only words, your message is inferior." -Me, just a few minutes ago

  2. #2
    Administrator

    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Fairfax, VA
    Posts
    9,565
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Having Sex With A Relative

    Well just for accuracies sake, Lot's daughters are condemned by the bible for their actions, just as Noah's son is.
    "Suffering lies not with inequality, but with dependence." -Voltaire
    "Fallacies do not cease to be fallacies because they become fashions.” -G.K. Chesterton
    Also, if you think I've overlooked your post please shoot me a PM, I'm not intentionally ignoring you.


  3. #3
    ODN Community Regular

    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    7,671
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Having Sex With A Relative

    Quote Originally Posted by Vercingetorix View Post
    Is this biblical contradiction? You decide.
    No it's not. The bible wasn't invented yet when that happened. How can you contradict something that didn't exist yet?

    I really don't think the bible stopped inbreeding - that came about through trial and error.

    P.S. I added a joke to my signature in honor of this thread.
    Last edited by Snoop; August 6th, 2007 at 06:59 PM.
    While laughing at others stupidity, you may want to contemplate your own comedic talents. (link)
    Disclaimer: This information is being provided for informational, educational, and entertainment purposes only.

  4. #4
    ODN Community Regular

    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Pacific NW (for now)
    Posts
    1,476
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Having Sex With A Relative

    Just curious because I honestly don't know. Does the Bible say having sex with a relative is wrong? Quote please.

    Contrariwise, if it was so, it might be; and if it were so, it would be; but as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic.

  5. #5
    Registered User

    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Underneath the mountains
    Posts
    313
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Having Sex With A Relative

    Quote Originally Posted by Vercingetorix View Post
    What would happen if you asked your Rabbi, Priest, Pastor etc. if it was a sin to sleep with your daughter or cousin? My guess is that you would get a resounding YES! If that is the case then please explain all of the inbreeding that went on in the bible. For example, Cain and Abel, along with three sisters, (who I don't know the names of), had to have had sex in order for us to even be here at all. And that is just the beginning of the book, it gets more sordid. Then you have Lot doing the "Wild Thang" with his daughters in a cave. And I am sure that there are more examples. Is this biblical contradiction? You decide.
    On the cousin...it depends where, when, and what culture you live in. In our society, though we have ideas of mutated children and hold a general distaste for it 26 states allow cousins to marry and is the only western country to have restrictions at all. It's also estimated that 20 percent of all couples worldwide are first cousins. But if you're speaking of just sleeping with your cousin, no ring on the finger sort of thing...then yeah, most would call it sin (ie. fornication). And between siblings (full siblings especially) it's incest 101 for most societies now and unusual as acceptable in historical societies.


    As for Cain and Able, I'm still out there on whether they were the only hominids walking around (not the average Christian). But this is an easy case of neccesity if they were. With billion of people walking the face of this earth now, ya can't hold that excuse any longer.

    With luv,
    BD
    Last edited by BlueDreams; August 6th, 2007 at 07:23 PM.
    We do not see things as they are, we see things as we are.

  6. #6
    Registered User
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    180
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Having Sex With A Relative

    Quote Originally Posted by Snoop View Post
    No it's not. The bible wasn't invented yet when that happened. How can you contradict something that didn't exist yet?

    I really don't think the bible stopped inbreeding - that came about through trial and error.

    P.S. I added a joke to my signature in honor of this thread.
    LoL. Nice one Snoop.
    "If you can not battle words with words and only words, your message is inferior." -Me, just a few minutes ago

  7. #7
    ODN Community Regular

    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    With my Angel in Aurora
    Posts
    5,628
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Having Sex With A Relative

    Quote Originally Posted by Vercingetorix View Post
    For example, Cain and Abel, along with three sisters, (who I don't know the names of), had to have had sex in order for us to even be here at all. And that is just the beginning of the book, it gets more sordid. Then you have Lot doing the "Wild Thang" with his daughters in a cave. And I am sure that there are more examples. Is this biblical contradiction? You decide.
    Lot's act was recorded as a matter of history. See more here: Christian Courier: Biblical Conflict over Incest. When the family tree is just a trunk.

    The regulations of the Law of Moses were binding only upon those to whom it was given at the time, and subsequently upon all who lived under that law until its abolition (at the death of Christ—Romans 7:1ff; Ephesians 2:11ff; Colossians 2:13-17). Even in our legal system there is recognition of the ex post facto principle, namely that one is not amenable to the consequences of a law passed after the commission of a certain act. The people of the Patriarchal Period, therefore, were not under the specific regulations of the Mosaic Code. They were obligated to universal moral principles, but not to the intricate details of some of the Mosaic regulations which came later. Note this comment from Professor Walter Kaiser.


    From Christian Courier source above.

    Also, with Cain and Abel, it's important to understand just what happened there. Abel never had children (to my knowledge). He was killed by Cain, who was banished as a result. Cain was exiled and started a city elsewhere without contact or communicae in any form with his former family.

    Quote Originally Posted by AliceLiddell View Post
    Just curious because I honestly don't know. Does the Bible say having sex with a relative is wrong? Quote please.
    Leviticus 20:11-17

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Dreams
    As for Cain and Abel, I'm still out there on whether they were the only hominids walking around
    I'm skeptical of the "Adam and Eve, Cain and Abel only" theory myself. Cain was exiled. He started a city far away. If Adam and Eve's family were the only ones at the time, how could Cain start a City?
    But in your hearts revere Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect, keeping a clear conscience, so that those who speak maliciously against your good behavior in Christ may be ashamed of their slander.
    1 Peter 3:15-16

  8. #8
    Registered User
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    180
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Having Sex With A Relative

    I must admit, I didn't read the rules before starting and probably did it incorrectly. I seen the words "bible" and "contradictions" and started to salivate.

    I was more attempting to tie the contradictions in the bible to today's society. such as the story of Jesus and the "moneychangers" you find in both the Synoptic Gospels and in the Gospel of John. Or, loving your enemies (Luke 6:27-36). Next time I will read the rules before proceeding on a post.
    Last edited by Vercingetorix; August 6th, 2007 at 10:59 PM.
    "If you can not battle words with words and only words, your message is inferior." -Me, just a few minutes ago

  9. #9
    ODN Community Regular

    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Sheffield, S.Yorks., UK
    Posts
    8,862
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Having Sex With A Relative

    Quote Originally Posted by Vercingetorix View Post
    What would happen if you asked your Rabbi, Priest, Pastor etc. if it was a sin to sleep with your daughter or cousin? My guess is that you would get a resounding YES! If that is the case then please explain all of the inbreeding that went on in the bible. For example, Cain and Abel, along with three sisters, (who I don't know the names of), had to have had sex in order for us to even be here at all. And that is just the beginning of the book, it gets more sordid. Then you have Lot doing the "Wild Thang" with his daughters in a cave. And I am sure that there are more examples. Is this biblical contradiction? You decide.
    Since I personally view the Adam and Eve, and Noah stories as more parable than literal fact, I have no problem with said technicalities. Then I don't believe in the literally expressed height of Adam either. In the Torah his height is allegorical - that in intellectual terms humanity stood head and shoulders above the rest of the animal kingdom - not a literal 60 cubits, which would make him at least 90ft tall and cause a few physiological and engineering problems, as well as feeding ones. The Qur'an, bless it, has lifted such things and made them literal.

    Scientifically/genetically there could have been no one Adam and no one Eve, since inbreeding would have caused a genetic 'bottleneck' from which homo sapiens could not emerge. There needed to be numbers of 'Adam and Eves' emerging from proto-humanity at about the same time, and from different groups/populations.

    Mitochondrial Eve - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    From Qur'anic texts:
    Bukhari
    According to the Sahih Bukhari, Adam was created about thirty meters in height. Since then the stature of human beings is being diminished continuously. (8:74:246)
    (This, despite scientific records showing that improvements in diet have led to increases in average heights since cave/hunter-gatherer days.)
    "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." - Anais Nin.
    Emitte lucem et veritatem - Send out light and truth.
    'Fere libenter homines id quod volunt credunt' - Julius Caesar (rough translation, 'Men will think what they want to think')
    Kill my boss? Do I dare live out the American dream? - Homer Simpson.

  10. #10
    Registered User

    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    9,470
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Having Sex With A Relative

    Lots of murders are recorded in the Bible, and it says you shall not murder. Is that a contradiction? No. That's the is-ought fallacy.

  11. #11
    Registered User
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    180
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Having Sex With A Relative

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinBrowning View Post
    Lots of murders are recorded in the Bible, and it says you shall not murder. Is that a contradiction? No. That's the is-ought fallacy.
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but, isn't it "Thou shall not kill"?
    "If you can not battle words with words and only words, your message is inferior." -Me, just a few minutes ago

  12. #12
    Registered User

    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    9,470
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Having Sex With A Relative

    Quote Originally Posted by Vercingetorix View Post
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but, isn't it "Thou shall not kill"?
    Today murder is considered the more accurate translation. Our knowledge of ancient Hebrew has grown since the King James Version. Obviously, God commanded the Hebrews to kill people on several occasions.

  13. #13
    Registered User
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    180
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Having Sex With A Relative

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinBrowning View Post
    Today murder is considered the more accurate translation. Our knowledge of ancient Hebrew has grown since the King James Version. Obviously, God commanded the Hebrews to kill people on several occasions.
    So, is that another amendment to the bible? It would not be the first. The King James version is an ammendment itself. Is it not heresy to deviate from the Old Testament. I am not a religious scholar, or a religious person for that matter. So, I can't say for sure. It just seems like the bible(s) are twisted and misinterpreted to suit an agenda.
    "If you can not battle words with words and only words, your message is inferior." -Me, just a few minutes ago

  14. #14
    Registered User

    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    9,470
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Having Sex With A Relative

    Quote Originally Posted by Vercingetorix View Post
    So, is that another amendment to the bible? It would not be the first. The King James version is an ammendment itself. Is it not heresy to deviate from the Old Testament. I am not a religious scholar, or a religious person for that matter. So, I can't say for sure. It just seems like the bible(s) are twisted and misinterpreted to suit an agenda.
    Translations are imperfect, but not amendments. Amendments are intentional substantial changes to something. Although some details or sometimes even important contextual meanings may be lost in translation, it is unintentional.

    Although many people have twisted the Bible to suit their agenda, that must be blamed on the people themselves, and not on the Bible itself.

  15. #15
    Administrator

    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Fairfax, VA
    Posts
    9,565
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Having Sex With A Relative

    Quote Originally Posted by Vercingetorix View Post
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but, isn't it "Thou shall not kill"?
    Actually thats a mistranslation. BibleGateway.com: Search for a Bible passage in over 35 languages and 50 versions.
    The hebrew means murder, which is not the same thing as kill.
    "Suffering lies not with inequality, but with dependence." -Voltaire
    "Fallacies do not cease to be fallacies because they become fashions.” -G.K. Chesterton
    Also, if you think I've overlooked your post please shoot me a PM, I'm not intentionally ignoring you.


  16. #16
    ODN Community Regular

    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Pacific NW (for now)
    Posts
    1,476
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Having Sex With A Relative

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Hyde View Post
    Thank you, Hyde.

    Contrariwise, if it was so, it might be; and if it were so, it would be; but as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic.

  17. #17
    ODN Community Regular

    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    651
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Having Sex With A Relative

    but the fisrt people were perfect, so in breeding wouldnt hurt the genese at all am i right?
    Nothing will stand against the returning of He who hath died for us and His Father who breathed the breath of life into the dust that created man.
    Humbleness, Love, and loyalty to the word and his message.

    BF55.....

  18. #18
    I've been given a "timeout"

    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Who are you? Why are you asking me this?
    Posts
    4,064
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Having Sex With A Relative

    Quote Originally Posted by Bf55 View Post
    but the fisrt people were perfect, so in breeding wouldnt hurt the genese at all am i right?
    No. From what I've gathered inbreeding wouldn't hurt most people on the first time, but by the second, third, or fourth generations, thats when severe problems start arising.

  19. #19
    ODN Community Regular

    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    651
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Having Sex With A Relative

    Quote Originally Posted by Turtleflipper View Post
    No. From what I've gathered inbreeding wouldn't hurt most people on the first time, but by the second, third, or fourth generations, thats when severe problems start arising.
    not if up to the third gen they were prefect then 3rd or 4th cousins made kids
    Nothing will stand against the returning of He who hath died for us and His Father who breathed the breath of life into the dust that created man.
    Humbleness, Love, and loyalty to the word and his message.

    BF55.....

  20. #20
    ODN Community Regular

    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Sheffield, S.Yorks., UK
    Posts
    8,862
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Having Sex With A Relative

    Quote Originally Posted by Bf55 View Post
    not if up to the third gen they were prefect then 3rd or 4th cousins made kids
    You still have a choke point - all genes are of only an original pair - there is insubstantial time to create/evolve new genetic codes, other than simple variations of 'Adam and Eve's' original ones. There would be no 'hybrid vigour' effect.
    "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." - Anais Nin.
    Emitte lucem et veritatem - Send out light and truth.
    'Fere libenter homines id quod volunt credunt' - Julius Caesar (rough translation, 'Men will think what they want to think')
    Kill my boss? Do I dare live out the American dream? - Homer Simpson.

 

 
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Absolute Truth
    By DeviantNorm in forum Philosophical Debates
    Replies: 342
    Last Post: February 15th, 2008, 08:51 AM
  2. Replies: 194
    Last Post: May 22nd, 2006, 06:45 AM
  3. Is homosexuality real sex or pseudo-sex?
    By Xanadu Moo in forum Social Issues
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: October 27th, 2005, 09:59 PM
  4. sex questions
    By CC in forum ODN Polls
    Replies: 78
    Last Post: November 18th, 2004, 03:44 PM

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •