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  1. #1
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    Alcohol causes more violent deaths than guns do

    In the U.S., recent annual statistics show the following rates:

    17,602 - Drunk driving deaths
    (2006 - National Highway Traffic Safety Administration FARS data)

    11,346 - Firearm homicides
    (2005 - FBI, Supplementary Homicide Reports)

    Drunk drivers account for approximately 41% of all automobile fatalities. This means that drunk drivers almost double your chances of dying whenever you go out on the road.

    Shouldn't we be giving just as must attention to reducing drunk driving as we are to monitoring firearms? Drunk driving is more than 50% worse than guns in the number of people it kills. And it's reasonable to estimate that many of those involved in homicides are those involved in crime as a percentage, while the victims of drunk driving involve all demographics. All you have to be is in a car to be targeted. You can stay away from the bad parts of town and not go out at night to reduce the chances of being shot by someone, but there's nowhere to hide to avoid drunk drivers unless you don't come out of your house.

    So then why don't we crack down more on alcohol consumption if it produces more deaths than guns?

    Is it reasonable to put just as much effort into this dilemma as the more visible murder scenarios? Shoot 'em up stories get all the sexy dramatization, but driving while intoxicated is the worse criminal element.

    What should be done to lessen drunk driving? Should preventative measures be taken to control drinking, since so many people can't seem to control themselves?

    Giving people license to drive while intoxicated is not all that different than letting a reckless person out on the street brandishing a gun. What would happen if we suddenly started giving out guns and letting people carry them out in public, and then the murder rate went up 50%? That's where we're at right now with drunk driving.
    anything could be an illusion and we wouldn't know the difference... proof schmoof...

  2. #2
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    Re: Alcohol causes more violent deaths than guns do

    Quote Originally Posted by Xanadu Moo View Post
    What should be done to lessen drunk driving? Should preventative measures be taken to control drinking, since so many people can't seem to control themselves?
    This may sound controversial, but I think we should outlaw drunk driving.

  3. #3
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    Re: Alcohol causes more violent deaths than guns do

    lol Mican. You radical.

    Xan...I see your argument being a bit inconsistent. Alcohol isn't inherently bad, nor are guns. It's the abuse of that causes harm.

    Alcohol is to drunk driving like guns are to gun violence. For your argument to be consistent in getting rid of alcohol, it should also then be the case that we ought to get rid of guns (this, vs focusing on the issues of drunk driving (abuse of alcohol) and gun violence (abuse of guns).

    Also, your stats don't quite add up. For instance, you say that your odds as a driver increase 2-fold in the risk of fatalities, due to drunk drivers. However, the stats merely state X amt of fatalities...this undoubtedly includes the drunk drivers themselves. How many of these accidents result in the fatalities of just the drunk drivers?

    I understand where you are trying to take the argument, I just see a few flaws in it that need to be worked out first.
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  4. #4
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    Re: Alcohol causes more violent deaths than guns do

    I do know that penalties for DUI are a lot more severe than thay used to be. My ex got 5 years for his 6th DUI, and he will be getting out next year. He can't ever have a license again. They do have specially designed cars that the driver has to blow in to determine blood alcohol content. The car will not start if the person is legally drunk.
    Also, there are other types of deaths related to alcohol, such as domestic violence. About half of the people in prison for violent crimes, were drunk when committing those crimes.


    _________________________________ Post Merged _________________________________


    We all know that alcohol is regulated by the federal gov't. There are regulations, as far as who can purchase it. ( Age 21 in most states) There are also certain regulations on the sale of firearms. (Background check, license to carry, etc.)
    However there will always be individuals who seek to obtain guns, and alcohol, by illegal means. Alcohol is a legal drug, and it continues to be legal in spite of all the death and destruction it causes.
    Last edited by Scarlett44; September 18th, 2007 at 12:18 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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  5. #5
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    Re: Alcohol causes more violent deaths than guns do

    If I was a drunken cowboy ... would I get the death penalty? Ananova - Drunken cowboy arrested=

    Smoking is banned in public places - as far as I know, drinking is too. Leave the drinkers alone - the police need something to do late at night.
    While laughing at others stupidity, you may want to contemplate your own comedic talents. (link)
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  6. #6
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    Re: Alcohol causes more violent deaths than guns do

    While I think that drunk driving is the culprit here more so than alcohol in and of itself, I do find it interesting that atheists here decry religion because it is the source of so much death (even though a specific minority within religion is responsible for it all) but alcohol related car accidents have killed more Americans than all the wars the United States has participated in since its founding combined. Now, alcohol does not only kill when a specific minority of drinkers consumes it. It does not kill when it has dictatorial power. It does not kill when it has an enemy. Alcohol can turn any consumer in this country into a killer any time they drive, and yet it will no doubt be defended while those defenders continue to blame religion as a whole for the heartache and death caused by such a tiny and extreme minority. It's a good thing those atheists who do that are such critical thinking and unbiased examples for the rest of us.

  7. #7
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    Re: Alcohol causes more violent deaths than guns do

    Quote Originally Posted by maklelan View Post
    While I think that drunk driving is the culprit here more so than alcohol in and of itself, I do find it interesting that atheists here decry religion because it is the source of so much death (even though a specific minority within religion is responsible for it all) but alcohol related car accidents have killed more Americans than all the wars the United States has participated in since its founding combined. Now, alcohol does not only kill when a specific minority of drinkers consumes it. It does not kill when it has dictatorial power. It does not kill when it has an enemy. Alcohol can turn any consumer in this country into a killer any time they drive, and yet it will no doubt be defended while those defenders continue to blame religion as a whole for the heartache and death caused by such a tiny and extreme minority. It's a good thing those atheists who do that are such critical thinking and unbiased examples for the rest of us.
    As far as I know, athiests are just as intolerant of drunk driving as anyone else.

  8. #8
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    Re: Alcohol causes more violent deaths than guns do

    Quote Originally Posted by maklelan View Post
    While I think that drunk driving is the culprit here more so than alcohol in and of itself, I do find it interesting that atheists here decry religion because it is the source of so much death (even though a specific minority within religion is responsible for it all) but alcohol related car accidents have killed more Americans than all the wars the United States has participated in since its founding combined. Now, alcohol does not only kill when a specific minority of drinkers consumes it. It does not kill when it has dictatorial power. It does not kill when it has an enemy. Alcohol can turn any consumer in this country into a killer any time they drive, and yet it will no doubt be defended while those defenders continue to blame religion as a whole for the heartache and death caused by such a tiny and extreme minority. It's a good thing those atheists who do that are such critical thinking and unbiased examples for the rest of us.
    The response to this, is that the consumer of alcohol has a choice. So it's only fair to compare apples to apples. How many victims of drunk driving are there (not including the actual consumers themselves, which most stats do include)?
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  9. #9
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    Re: Alcohol causes more violent deaths than guns do

    Quote Originally Posted by mican333 View Post
    As far as I know, athiests are just as intolerant of drunk driving as anyone else.
    You're going to get them in a hissy fit if you don't spell atheist correctly - did you misspell it on purpose?

    On the subject of religious intolerance to drinking vs atheist intolerance to drinking, I would say that religious intolerance (to drinking) is much more vocal. We have religious groups here that provide free rides home for the weekend bar croud - they even have a spare driver to drive your car. Atheists don't do that. For some reason I get the feeling that atheists are more vocal when it comes to gun rights - I might be wrong though.

    I still think that gun violence is more scary and sensational when portrayed in the media - no matter what the statistics say. Both drinking related deaths and gun deaths are equally violent because they both cause death. I think I'd rather die in a car crash though - that way I could get some free narcotics before I die
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  10. #10
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    Re: Alcohol causes more violent deaths than guns do

    Quote Originally Posted by maklelan View Post
    ...but alcohol related car accidents have killed more Americans than all the wars the United States has participated in...
    But American have killed more foreign civilians by shooting or bombing them than by giving them alcohol

    By the way, how many people have died from tobacco in the states? My guess is that it's killed more people than ALL the above stats.
    ~ le prime di di mont la vacja no fas formadi ~

  11. #11
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    Re: Alcohol causes more violent deaths than guns do

    Punishment, bans, rehab and education need to be sensibly used in a mutually supportive role. Much like is the case for coming down hard on guns, it will not eradicate the problem, but it will certainly significantly reduce deaths and injuries.

    ps. Worldwide it is thought that female mosquitoes have been instrumental in the deaths of about half of all homo sapiens throughout their history. After about 1950 mosquito related deaths have reduced. That is approximated to about 43-45 billion deaths in total since the dawn of our history. Mosquitoes carry more than a hundred potentially fatal diseases, including malaria, yellow fever, dengue fever, encephalitis, filariasis, and elephantiasis. Even today mosquitoes are involved in the death of one person every twelve seconds (on average).
    Publication: Mosquitoes
    Last edited by FruitandNut; September 18th, 2007 at 10:52 PM. Reason: Forgot the all important reference.
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  12. #12
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    Re: Alcohol causes more violent deaths than guns do

    Every year, tobacco related deaths in the U.S. number about 300,000 to 320,000.
    Deaths from drunk driving number about 100,000-200,000. Interestingly, deaths from all illegal drugs combined, equal about 6000-7000. ( I could find the link to these stats, but now I can't remember it, lol!) So, we can ascertain from these numbers that we have legalized the two most lethal substances! (Imagine that!)
    Last edited by Scarlett44; September 19th, 2007 at 03:23 AM. Reason: add text
    "As long as I have a voice, I will speak for those who have none".

  13. #13
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    Re: Alcohol causes more violent deaths than guns do

    One thing to consider is that in most cases guns do not CAUSE the death, the person wielding the gun did. I mean if Joe decides to kill Fred, he has a variety of methods at hand and if he uses a knife, poison, car, or some other means to kill, Fred is still dead.

    Joe was the cause of Fred's death, not the gun. Of course Joe will likely be more succesful in trying to kill Fred using a gun than most other means he could employ.

    And I would certainly put more blame on the gun in the case of accidental death.

    But the thing to remember is that many, perhaps most, of the people who die from gunshots would be dead if a gun was not used against them.

  14. #14
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    Re: Alcohol causes more violent deaths than guns do

    Here's a thought-I wonder what the statistics are for people who were shot and killed by a drunk person?
    Last edited by Scarlett44; September 19th, 2007 at 07:16 AM. Reason: add text
    "As long as I have a voice, I will speak for those who have none".

  15. #15
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    Re: Alcohol causes more violent deaths than guns do

    Quote Originally Posted by mican333 View Post
    As far as I know, athiests are just as intolerant of drunk driving as anyone else.
    But they are tolerant of alcohol, even though it is more directly related to more deaths than religion.

  16. #16
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    Re: Alcohol causes more violent deaths than guns do

    Quote Originally Posted by maklelan View Post
    But they are tolerant of alcohol, even though it is more directly related to more deaths than religion.
    And most religious people are likewise tolerant of alcohol. And they are also tolerant of tobacco, which kills even more people.

  17. #17
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    Re: Alcohol causes more violent deaths than guns do

    Quote Originally Posted by Apokalupsis View Post
    The response to this, is that the consumer of alcohol has a choice. So it's only fair to compare apples to apples.
    1) And religious zealots don't have a choice?

    2) Have you ever been a witness to severe alcoholism?

    Bottom line is that alcohol is directly related to far more deaths than religion year after year. Why is religion as a whole condemned, but alcohol is defended?


    _________________________________ Post Merged _________________________________


    Quote Originally Posted by mican333 View Post
    And most religious people are likewise tolerant of alcohol. And they are also tolerant of tobacco, which kills even more people.
    My religion decries the use of both, so your objection doesn't apply to me, right?


    _________________________________ Post Merged _________________________________


    Quote Originally Posted by sjjs View Post
    But American have killed more foreign civilians by shooting or bombing them than by giving them alcohol
    What does this have to do with alcohol and religious violence?

    Quote Originally Posted by sjjs View Post
    By the way, how many people have died from tobacco in the states? My guess is that it's killed more people than ALL the above stats.
    My religion condemns the consumption of both.
    Last edited by maklelan; September 19th, 2007 at 07:23 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

  18. #18
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    Re: Alcohol causes more violent deaths than guns do

    Quote Originally Posted by maklelan View Post
    What does this have to do with alcohol and religious violence?
    Puts things in perspective old chap.

    Quote Originally Posted by maklelan View Post
    My religion condemns the consumption of both.
    Alcohol IS my religion!
    ~ le prime di di mont la vacja no fas formadi ~

  19. #19
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    Re: Alcohol causes more violent deaths than guns do

    Quote Originally Posted by maklelan View Post
    My religion decries the use of both, so your objection doesn't apply to me, right?
    I suppose not. But it does apply to MOST religious people, so your criticism about athiests likewise applies to most religious people.

    And your original criticism has several flaws:

    1. There is a difference between murdering others and killing yourself though unwise choices (which would describe most, although not all, alcohol-related deaths). So it is not inconsistent to decry murder in the name of religion and not be so adamant about people accidentally killing themselves (be it through accidents or over-indulgance). It is apples and oranges.

    2. And as I said, atheists have not displayed less tolerance for drinking-driving deaths than other people.

    Your religion is apparently against drinking - period. So that would mean that it's likewise against drinking that doesn't people in any significant way (like having a glass of wine with your dinner). So that does not display a greater intolerance for drinking and driving than others but just a greater intolerance for drinking in general.

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    Re: Alcohol causes more violent deaths than guns do

    Quote Originally Posted by maklelan View Post
    1) And religious zealots don't have a choice?
    Like I said compare apples to apples. How many people have religious zealots killed?

    2) Have you ever been a witness to severe alcoholism?
    Yes actually. It destroyed a family member's life and affected the entire family as a result.

    Bottom line is that alcohol is directly related to far more deaths than religion year after year. Why is religion as a whole condemned, but alcohol is defended?
    Please support the assertion that alcohol is directly related to far more deaths than religion. Again, we aren't talking about self-sustained.

    Note: I'm not necessarily disagreeing or agreeing with your assertion. I just think it's faulty argumentation and is in definite need of support.
    Last edited by Apokalupsis; September 19th, 2007 at 10:37 AM.
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