Welcome guest, is this your first visit? Create Account now to join.
  • Login:

Welcome to the Online Debate Network.

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed.

Results 1 to 8 of 8
  1. #1
    Registered User

    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Santa Barbara, CA
    Posts
    1,252
    Post Thanks / Like

    The Bible opposes interracial marriage

    *note* This thread spawned from What is marriage? - APOK


    OK< Apok, one issue at a time. Had you been church goin' and down in the Bible belt back when those darned liberals up in Washington were tryin' to defy God's word and Let innocent lil' white girls marry out of their God ordained race, you would have heard the following scripture cited:

    God tells us in Acts 17:26 "And He has made from one (blood) every nation of men to dwell on all the face of the earth, and has determined their preappointed times and the boundaries of their dwellings."

    Both in Adam and Eve and Noah and his wife God performed the miracle of placing in them the genes to produce after a few short generations all the various races of man - black, yellow and white, for each to reproduce after their own variety after that. Just as God has created flowers of every kind so too does God love wonderous variety in mankind.

    Ham and Japheth did not intermarry with another race. They were non-white to begin with and married women of their own race.

    We know that Nehemiah broke up marriages between Israelites and Gentiles, presumably claiming that they were never legal to begin with and not a legitimate marriage because they were forbidden to marry Gentiles (Deut 7).

    Deut 32:8 (from the time of Adam God separated the races)

    Acts 17:26 (here is another scripture showing that God segregated the races)

    Gen 6:2, 9

    Gen 11:4-8; 10:5, 25, 32

    Gen 24:3; 26:34-35; 27:46; 28:1, 8-9 (race was obviously the reason for this opposition to such marriages)

    Lev 19:19 (even cattle should not mix)

    Deut 22:9 (even the seeds should not be mixed)

    Deut 7:1-5

    Ezra 9:1-3, 11-12; 10:1-3, 10-11, 16-17, 44 (mixing is condemned)

    Neh 7:64; 10:28-30; 13:1-3, 23-30 (mixing is condemned)

    Ex 23:31-33; 34:16; 33:51-55; Jos13:13; 15:14, 63; 16:10; 17:18; 23:11-13; Jud 1:19-21, 28-36; 2:1-5; 3:5-7; IKings 11:1-2; Prov 2:16; 5:3, 20; 6:24; 7:5; Ps 106:34-35 (these scriptures prove that Israel was told to push out other peoples from Israel?s lands for racial and religious reasons); Ezek 34:11

    Is 5:1-7; Jer 2:19-23; Hos 5:1, 7; Hos 7:8-9

    Num 1:18 (they were concerned about their pedigrees and ancestry. See IChron 2-4 and Gen 14:13).

    Ex 12:38; Num 11:4-5; Neh 13:3; Jer 10:2. See also Jos 23:13; Jude 2:3; Ezek 28:24; Num 33:55

    Ex 1:11; 8:22; Lev 20:24 (Geographical integration in Egypt led to racial discrimination)

    Gen 16:1-3 (Abram sinned by having a concubine); Num 12:1 (IF she was racially and not nationally a Cu****e, Moses sinned and later repented by marrying a White Midianitess)

    Ruth 1:1-5, 12, 15; Matt 1:5; Ruth 3:1-9; 4:13 (combining all these scriptures we find that Naomi?s sons should not have married Canaanites even though they were lighter skinned in those days. Naomi advised her 2 Moabitess daughters-in-law to return to their own kind. She also was trying to pair off people who were ethnically similar). Turn to Num 21:26, 29-35; 2:32-34; Deut 2:34; Jud 11:12-26 (here we have proofs that Israelites conquered Moab at one time). Now turn to Deut 23:3 and Zeph 2:9; Is 25:10 ? there is no way that Ruth was a Moabitess by race, but by geography. For instance, Cliff Richard was an Indian by geography, not by race, as are many other British. See the article The Plain Truth about Ruth near the end of this paper.

    Ex 22:21 (law of treatment of strangers); 23:33 (but they must not live in Israel for any extended period. So, these strangers were to be given temporary refuge and then sent back home. See also Ezek 47:22-23).

    Jer 50:16 (the races will be segregated again in the millennium)

    Gen 12:11; 24:1-4, 14-16; 26:7; 24:29; 49:12; Num 12:10; Gen 28:1-2, 16; Lam 4:7; ISam 16:12; 17:42; Est 2:7; S of Solomon 5:10-11 (this proves Israel was fair-skinned)

    Gen 21:21; 26:34-35; 27:46; 28:6-9; 46:10-12; IChron 2:3-4 (each time that an patriarch married outside of their stock, God mentions it in the Bible)

    Dan 2:43

    Ezek 30:5; Jer 25:20; 50:37; Ps 106:35; Ezra 9:2 (mixing is portrayed in a negative light). See also Is 3:8-9; Ezek 16:1-3

    IChron 2:20, 23, 28, 50 (hur = white)

    Ezek 23:42

    Jud 14:3 (God allowed Samson to intermarry, but used the circumstances to His end. God works in mysterious ways)

    Num 36:6-7 (even the tribes of Israel were not to intermarry)

    Deut 28:43; Lam 5:1-2; Hos 7:4, 8; Prov 5:7-10; Is 2:6; 1:7-8.

    The pulpit lost that one, just as the southern pulpit lost the slavery issue.
    Last edited by Apokalupsis; July 11th, 2004 at 03:19 PM.
    To begin to think is to begin to be undermined.
    Albert Camus, An Absurd Reasoning

    Who knows most, doubts most.
    Robert Browning

  2. #2
    Registered User
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    2,191
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by 3rdPersonPlural
    OK< Apok, one issue at a time. Had you been church goin' and down in the Bible belt back when those darned liberals up in Washington were tryin' to defy God's word and Let innocent lil' white girls marry out of their God ordained race, you would have heard the following scripture cited:

    God tells us in Acts 17:26 "And He has made from one (blood) every nation of men to dwell on all the face of the earth, and has determined their preappointed times and the boundaries of their dwellings."
    If they are of 'one blood' then they are the same, are they not?

    Quote Originally Posted by 3rdPersonPlural
    Both in Adam and Eve and Noah and his wife God performed the miracle of placing in them the genes to produce after a few short generations all the various races of man - black, yellow and white, for each to reproduce after their own variety after that. Just as God has created flowers of every kind so too does God love wondrous variety in mankind.
    Thus again, there are not separation of races.

    Quote Originally Posted by 3rdPersonPlural
    Ham and Japheth did not intermarry with another race. They were non-white to begin with and married women of their own race.
    Ditto.

    Quote Originally Posted by 3rdPersonPlural
    We know that Nehemiah broke up marriages between Israelites and Gentiles, presumably claiming that they were never legal to begin with and not a legitimate marriage because they were forbidden to marry Gentiles (Deut 7).
    Deut 32:8 (from the time of Adam God separated the races)
    My version says
    Deut 32:8
    When the Most High gave the nations their inheritance, when he divided all mankind, He set up boundaries for the peoples according to the number of the sons of Israel.

    Nothing about races, and certainly nothing about prohibitions of inter-marriage based on race.

    Quote Originally Posted by 3rdPersonPlural
    Acts 17:26 (here is another scripture showing that God segregated the races)
    Ah, my version (and I'm going by www.biblegateway.com folks, if you want to check these out) and this says 'nations'.. Nothing about prohibitions of inter-marriage.

    Quote Originally Posted by 3rdPersonPlural
    Gen 6:2, 9
    This actually suggests intermarriage...
    Gen 6:2
    the sons of God saw that the daughters of men were beautiful, and they married any of them they chose.. Nothing about prohibitions of inter-marriage.

    Quote Originally Posted by 3rdPersonPlural
    Gen 11:4-8; 10:5, 25, 32
    Gen 11 is the separation of man by language group. So is Gen 10:5. Nothing about prohibitions of inter-marriage based on race.

    Quote Originally Posted by 3rdPersonPlural
    Gen 24:3
    Gen 24:3 I want you to swear by the LORD , the God of heaven and the God of earth, that you will not get a wife for my son from the daughters of the Canaanites, among whom I am living, 4 but will go to my country and my own relatives and get a wife for my son Isaac."

    I hope you have a point with this. Nothing about prohibitions of inter-marriage based on race.

    Quote Originally Posted by 3rdPersonPlural
    26:34-35
    Gen 26:34 When Esau was forty years old, he married Judith daughter of Beeri the Hittite, and also Basemath daughter of Elon the Hittite.
    35 They were a source of grief to Isaac and Rebekah.

    Is this going somewhere? So far you've spouted a heap of Bible verses and nothing in them has anything to do with prohibitions of inter-marriage based on race.

    Quote Originally Posted by 3rdPersonPlural
    Gen 27:46
    Gen 27: 46 Then Rebekah said to Isaac, "I'm disgusted with living because of these Hittite women. If Jacob takes a wife from among the women of this land, from Hittite women like these, my life will not be worth living."

    This in fact shows a real possibility of cross-cultural marriages. Nothing about prohibitions of inter-marriage based on race.

    Quote Originally Posted by 3rdPersonPlural
    Gen 28:1
    Finally, something to do with prohibition of marriage! The text says...
    Gen 28: 1 So Isaac called for Jacob and blessed him and commanded him: "Do not marry a Canaanite woman.
    2 Go at once to Paddan Aram, to the house of your mother's father Bethuel. Take a wife for yourself there, from among the daughters of Laban, your mother's brother.

    How is this a general prohibition against 'inter-racial' marriages; considering that the Canaanites were descendant of Ham and thence Noah, and therefore shared common descent with the Jews who are also descendant of Noah?

    Quote Originally Posted by 3rdPersonPlural
    Lev 19:19 (even cattle should not mix)
    Rather than respond to this (irrelevant though it is as it doesn't even refer to the same species) do you have any specific verses that prohibit marriage based on race. I've just spent a good deal of time going through each of the verses you cited as proofs and so far they are 100% irrelevant to your case.
    Montalban has left this forum

  3. #3
    ODN Community Regular

    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Sheffield, S.Yorks., UK
    Posts
    8,862
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by 3rdPersonPlural
    *note* This thread spawned from What is marriage? - APOK


    OK< Apok, one issue at a time. Had you been church goin' and down in the Bible belt back when those darned liberals up in Washington were tryin' to defy God's word and Let innocent lil' white girls marry out of their God ordained race, you would have heard the following scripture cited:

    God tells us in Acts 17:26 "And He has made from one (blood) every nation of men to dwell on all the face of the earth, and has determined their preappointed times and the boundaries of their dwellings."

    Both in Adam and Eve and Noah and his wife God performed the miracle of placing in them the genes to produce after a few short generations all the various races of man - black, yellow and white, for each to reproduce after their own variety after that. Just as God has created flowers of every kind so too does God love wonderous variety in mankind.

    Ham and Japheth did not intermarry with another race. They were non-white to begin with and married women of their own race.

    We know that Nehemiah broke up marriages between Israelites and Gentiles, presumably claiming that they were never legal to begin with and not a legitimate marriage because they were forbidden to marry Gentiles (Deut 7).

    Deut 32:8 (from the time of Adam God separated the races)

    Acts 17:26 (here is another scripture showing that God segregated the races)

    Gen 6:2, 9

    Gen 11:4-8; 10:5, 25, 32

    Gen 24:3; 26:34-35; 27:46; 28:1, 8-9 (race was obviously the reason for this opposition to such marriages)

    Lev 19:19 (even cattle should not mix)

    Deut 22:9 (even the seeds should not be mixed)

    Deut 7:1-5

    Ezra 9:1-3, 11-12; 10:1-3, 10-11, 16-17, 44 (mixing is condemned)

    Neh 7:64; 10:28-30; 13:1-3, 23-30 (mixing is condemned)

    Ex 23:31-33; 34:16; 33:51-55; Jos13:13; 15:14, 63; 16:10; 17:18; 23:11-13; Jud 1:19-21, 28-36; 2:1-5; 3:5-7; IKings 11:1-2; Prov 2:16; 5:3, 20; 6:24; 7:5; Ps 106:34-35 (these scriptures prove that Israel was told to push out other peoples from Israel?s lands for racial and religious reasons); Ezek 34:11

    Is 5:1-7; Jer 2:19-23; Hos 5:1, 7; Hos 7:8-9

    Num 1:18 (they were concerned about their pedigrees and ancestry. See IChron 2-4 and Gen 14:13).

    Ex 12:38; Num 11:4-5; Neh 13:3; Jer 10:2. See also Jos 23:13; Jude 2:3; Ezek 28:24; Num 33:55

    Ex 1:11; 8:22; Lev 20:24 (Geographical integration in Egypt led to racial discrimination)

    Gen 16:1-3 (Abram sinned by having a concubine); Num 12:1 (IF she was racially and not nationally a Cu****e, Moses sinned and later repented by marrying a White Midianitess)

    Ruth 1:1-5, 12, 15; Matt 1:5; Ruth 3:1-9; 4:13 (combining all these scriptures we find that Naomi?s sons should not have married Canaanites even though they were lighter skinned in those days. Naomi advised her 2 Moabitess daughters-in-law to return to their own kind. She also was trying to pair off people who were ethnically similar). Turn to Num 21:26, 29-35; 2:32-34; Deut 2:34; Jud 11:12-26 (here we have proofs that Israelites conquered Moab at one time). Now turn to Deut 23:3 and Zeph 2:9; Is 25:10 ? there is no way that Ruth was a Moabitess by race, but by geography. For instance, Cliff Richard was an Indian by geography, not by race, as are many other British. See the article The Plain Truth about Ruth near the end of this paper.
    Ex 22:21 (law of treatment of strangers); 23:33 (but they must not live in Israel for any extended period. So, these strangers were to be given temporary refuge and then sent back home. See also Ezek 47:22-23).
    Jer 50:16 (the races will be segregated again in the millennium)
    Gen 12:11; 24:1-4, 14-16; 26:7; 24:29; 49:12; Num 12:10; Gen 28:1-2, 16; Lam 4:7; ISam 16:12; 17:42; Est 2:7; S of Solomon 5:10-11 (this proves Israel was fair-skinned)
    Gen 21:21; 26:34-35; 27:46; 28:6-9; 46:10-12; IChron 2:3-4 (each time that an patriarch married outside of their stock, God mentions it in the Bible)
    Dan 2:43
    Ezek 30:5; Jer 25:20; 50:37; Ps 106:35; Ezra 9:2 (mixing is portrayed in a negative light). See also Is 3:8-9; Ezek 16:1-3
    IChron 2:20, 23, 28, 50 (hur = white)
    Ezek 23:42
    Jud 14:3 (God allowed Samson to intermarry, but used the circumstances to His end. God works in mysterious ways)
    Num 36:6-7 (even the tribes of Israel were not to intermarry)
    Deut 28:43; Lam 5:1-2; Hos 7:4, 8; Prov 5:7-10; Is 2:6; 1:7-8.
    The pulpit lost that one, just as the southern pulpit lost the slavery issue.
    What you largely have here is not the 'Word of God', so much as Old Testiment Jewish scolors, interpreting in their way and for their cultural purpose, the different looks and ways of people living in other lands. They wanted to maintain their own looks and traditions and so incorporated their feelings and fears into the Holy Scriptures for added impact and legitimacy.

    ps. Personally, the only concerns I would have about either of my sons marrying a 'coloured' lady, would be the bigotry and prejudice that they and any of their offspring may have to face.
    "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." - Anais Nin.
    Emitte lucem et veritatem - Send out light and truth.
    'Fere libenter homines id quod volunt credunt' - Julius Caesar (rough translation, 'Men will think what they want to think')
    Kill my boss? Do I dare live out the American dream? - Homer Simpson.

  4. #4
    ODN Community Regular

    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    6,893
    Post Thanks / Like
    Israel is unique. From the very begginning God set them apart in order to fulfill his plans. It was essential that Israel remain pure. But all of this is history and does not mean that the Bible is against interracial marriage.
    I typically cite original research papers and reviews that are available only to a personal or institutional subscriptional. If you wish a PDF copy of the papers I cite, send me a request.

  5. #5
    ODN Community Regular

    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Sheffield, S.Yorks., UK
    Posts
    8,862
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: The Bible opposes interracial marriage

    It was not essentail that Israel be totally exclusive, if God was looking over them, any one brought into their fold would be prevented from succeeding in any kind of subversion.
    ' .... a people set apart???????????'
    "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." - Anais Nin.
    Emitte lucem et veritatem - Send out light and truth.
    'Fere libenter homines id quod volunt credunt' - Julius Caesar (rough translation, 'Men will think what they want to think')
    Kill my boss? Do I dare live out the American dream? - Homer Simpson.

  6. #6
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    san francisco, CA
    Posts
    315
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: The Bible opposes interracial marriage

    separation between israelis and gentiles was based on differences in beliefs not ethnicity or race.
    it's like u saying i'll never marry a republican(i wouldn't too by the way).
    Last edited by mask; July 31st, 2004 at 06:37 PM.
    do not believe in something because u heard it , do not believe in something because it is talked about and rumored by many, do not believe in something because u found it written in ur holy books, do not believe in something merely on the authority of ur teachers and elderly but after observation and analysis if u find something that agrees with logic and is conductive to the good and benefit of one and all then believe in it and live up to it
    buddha

  7. #7
    Registered User

    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Santa Barbara, CA
    Posts
    1,252
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: The Bible opposes interracial marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Montalban
    Rather than respond to this (irrelevant though it is as it doesn't even refer to the same species) do you have any specific verses that prohibit marriage based on race. I've just spent a good deal of time going through each of the verses you cited as proofs and so far they are 100% irrelevant to your case.
    Thankfully, I am not a Southern Fundamentalist Christian circa 1960 or I'd post something fiery accusing you of misreading the clarion word of God.

    The scripture I referenced in post 1 was apparently cited by those good and committed Christians back then to prove God's opposition to interracial marriage. That you can examine those same passages through the prism of a 21st century Australian Christian and reach a completely different answer substantiates my point that the Bible can be, and has been, used to argue both sides of practically any issue.
    To begin to think is to begin to be undermined.
    Albert Camus, An Absurd Reasoning

    Who knows most, doubts most.
    Robert Browning

  8. #8
    Registered User

    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Pray for our troops
    Posts
    5,340
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: The Bible opposes interracial marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by 3rdPersonPlural
    *note* This thread spawned from What is marriage? - APOK


    OK< Apok, one issue at a time. Had you been church goin' and down in the Bible belt back when those darned liberals up in Washington were tryin' to defy God's word and Let innocent lil' white girls marry out of their God ordained race, you would have heard the following scripture cited:

    God tells us in Acts 17:26 "And He has made from one (blood) every nation of men to dwell on all the face of the earth, and has determined their preappointed times and the boundaries of their dwellings."

    Both in Adam and Eve and Noah and his wife God performed the miracle of placing in them the genes to produce after a few short generations all the various races of man - black, yellow and white, for each to reproduce after their own variety after that. Just as God has created flowers of every kind so too does God love wonderous variety in mankind.

    Ham and Japheth did not intermarry with another race. They were non-white to begin with and married women of their own race.

    We know that Nehemiah broke up marriages between Israelites and Gentiles, presumably claiming that they were never legal to begin with and not a legitimate marriage because they were forbidden to marry Gentiles (Deut 7).

    Deut 32:8 (from the time of Adam God separated the races)

    Acts 17:26 (here is another scripture showing that God segregated the races)

    Gen 6:2, 9

    Gen 11:4-8; 10:5, 25, 32

    Gen 24:3; 26:34-35; 27:46; 28:1, 8-9 (race was obviously the reason for this opposition to such marriages)

    Lev 19:19 (even cattle should not mix)

    Deut 22:9 (even the seeds should not be mixed)

    Deut 7:1-5

    Ezra 9:1-3, 11-12; 10:1-3, 10-11, 16-17, 44 (mixing is condemned)

    Neh 7:64; 10:28-30; 13:1-3, 23-30 (mixing is condemned)

    Ex 23:31-33; 34:16; 33:51-55; Jos13:13; 15:14, 63; 16:10; 17:18; 23:11-13; Jud 1:19-21, 28-36; 2:1-5; 3:5-7; IKings 11:1-2; Prov 2:16; 5:3, 20; 6:24; 7:5; Ps 106:34-35 (these scriptures prove that Israel was told to push out other peoples from Israel?s lands for racial and religious reasons); Ezek 34:11

    Is 5:1-7; Jer 2:19-23; Hos 5:1, 7; Hos 7:8-9

    Num 1:18 (they were concerned about their pedigrees and ancestry. See IChron 2-4 and Gen 14:13).

    Ex 12:38; Num 11:4-5; Neh 13:3; Jer 10:2. See also Jos 23:13; Jude 2:3; Ezek 28:24; Num 33:55

    Ex 1:11; 8:22; Lev 20:24 (Geographical integration in Egypt led to racial discrimination)

    Gen 16:1-3 (Abram sinned by having a concubine); Num 12:1 (IF she was racially and not nationally a Cu****e, Moses sinned and later repented by marrying a White Midianitess)

    Ruth 1:1-5, 12, 15; Matt 1:5; Ruth 3:1-9; 4:13 (combining all these scriptures we find that Naomi?s sons should not have married Canaanites even though they were lighter skinned in those days. Naomi advised her 2 Moabitess daughters-in-law to return to their own kind. She also was trying to pair off people who were ethnically similar). Turn to Num 21:26, 29-35; 2:32-34; Deut 2:34; Jud 11:12-26 (here we have proofs that Israelites conquered Moab at one time). Now turn to Deut 23:3 and Zeph 2:9; Is 25:10 ? there is no way that Ruth was a Moabitess by race, but by geography. For instance, Cliff Richard was an Indian by geography, not by race, as are many other British. See the article The Plain Truth about Ruth near the end of this paper.

    Ex 22:21 (law of treatment of strangers); 23:33 (but they must not live in Israel for any extended period. So, these strangers were to be given temporary refuge and then sent back home. See also Ezek 47:22-23).

    Jer 50:16 (the races will be segregated again in the millennium)

    Gen 12:11; 24:1-4, 14-16; 26:7; 24:29; 49:12; Num 12:10; Gen 28:1-2, 16; Lam 4:7; ISam 16:12; 17:42; Est 2:7; S of Solomon 5:10-11 (this proves Israel was fair-skinned)

    Gen 21:21; 26:34-35; 27:46; 28:6-9; 46:10-12; IChron 2:3-4 (each time that an patriarch married outside of their stock, God mentions it in the Bible)

    Dan 2:43

    Ezek 30:5; Jer 25:20; 50:37; Ps 106:35; Ezra 9:2 (mixing is portrayed in a negative light). See also Is 3:8-9; Ezek 16:1-3

    IChron 2:20, 23, 28, 50 (hur = white)

    Ezek 23:42

    Jud 14:3 (God allowed Samson to intermarry, but used the circumstances to His end. God works in mysterious ways)

    Num 36:6-7 (even the tribes of Israel were not to intermarry)

    Deut 28:43; Lam 5:1-2; Hos 7:4, 8; Prov 5:7-10; Is 2:6; 1:7-8.

    The pulpit lost that one, just as the southern pulpit lost the slavery issue.
    Man many Old Testament Jewish refernces and one reference to a NEw Testament verse which is at best -- vague.

    It isa dangerous thing when Christians base a belief system on one or two verse vague New Testament verses. That is how we got Mormonism, he folks down South who drink poison and handle rattle sankes and various doomsday cults....

    The Old Testament also tells how people should treat their slaves and those references were used to justify slavery.

    Personally, I will be much more concerned about the faith and character of my children's chosen spouses than their skin color.

 

 

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •