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  1. #1
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    How Subtle is Subtle? Can Mods Decide?

    Re the so-called spam, here's a question: how can we trust a mod to understand a post and not treat it as so-called spam?
    ~ le prime di di mont la vacja no fas formadi ~

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    Re: How Subtle is Subtle? Can Mods Decide?

    ... and sjjs was next to be banned...

  3. #3
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    Re: How Subtle is Subtle? Can Mods Decide?

    He's not calling out a specific member/moderator... I don't think he'll be banned... YET!
    "And that, my lord, is how we know the Earth to be banana-shaped." ~ Monty Python


  4. #4
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    Re: How Subtle is Subtle? Can Mods Decide?

    Quote Originally Posted by sjjs View Post
    Re the so-called spam, here's a question: how can we trust a mod to understand a post and not treat it as so-called spam?
    Kentucky Fried Christ, man.

    What part of:

    Spamming - Posting irrelevant or meaningless posts or statements in a thread or as a thread is not allowed. The purpose of the discussion boards are to allow for intelligent discourse and debate. Wasting time/posts by spamming (creating meaningless statements or posts) is counter-productive. While a lesser-offense than "trolling", it is still an offense. Please refrain from doing so.

    don't you understand?

    You posted a one word post. It was meaningless and served no purpose to further the discussion.

    You say it wasn't spam. Tell me how it furthered the discourse of the thread.
    But in your hearts revere Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect, keeping a clear conscience, so that those who speak maliciously against your good behavior in Christ may be ashamed of their slander.
    1 Peter 3:15-16

  5. #5
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    Re: How Subtle is Subtle? Can Mods Decide?

    For the record, I advised sjjs to come to the Site Feedback forum to plead his case. Don't be too hard on him, he's only doing what I suggested.

    For those who do not know...here is what happened...

    He replies to this post made by squatch: http://www.onlinedebate.net/forums/g...tml#post252394

    Here is the post order:
    Hyde: It's not hard to throw a knife accurately. I can do it now and I've had no training.

    Trendem: To throw it accurately and KILL? Have you even tried killing someone with a throwing knife, Hyde? I'm guessing not.

    I am getting increasingly amused by your attempts at arguing that knives are more lethal than guns. If they are, then why the need for guns at all? Why isn't everyone using knives? Why are you against gun control? Obviously guns are more lethal than knives both at close quarters and at range, so stop arguing the absurd.


    Squatch: Have you ever shot someone Trendem? They don't just fall down. Bullets do a lot less damage than you might think. a knife wound is usually much more damaging than a bullet.

    Range is the only issue, and most shootings in a city enviroment take place at less than 25 feet. So range is not the issue it might seem.


    sjjs: Priceless.
    The post was removed, a pm was sent to sjjs letting him know. No warning, no infraction, no "unofficial warning".

    sjjs objected and said:

    Quote Originally Posted by sjjs
    Your definition of spamming says "Posting irrelevant or meaningless posts" but, as I pointed out to the mod, if anyone stopped to think about it the post I made was not meaningless. Subtle? Yes. Too subtle for some members of this forum? Obviously.

    Just because the mod failed to see the meaning in the post doesn't mean it's meaningless to people who can see the implications.
    Because I too failed to see any meaning, I asked sjjs what specifically, was the meaning. His response:

    Quote Originally Posted by sjjs
    Simple.

    It's irony. It suggests that the quoted statement was so utterly frightful and ridiculous that it belied comment.
    It is of the staff's position, that sjjs' post failed to do that. Further sjjs, you misuse the word "belie".

    be·lie /bɪˈlaɪ/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[bi-lahy] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation –verb (used with object), -lied, -ly·ing.
    1.to show to be false; contradict: His trembling hands belied his calm voice.
    2.to misrepresent: The newspaper belied the facts.
    3.to act unworthily according to the standards of (a tradition, one's ancestry, one's faith, etc.).
    4.Archaic. to lie about; slander.

    In summary, your post sjjs, added absolutely nothing to an ongoing, rather serious discussion that contained many well thought out posts including many sources posted by many participants.

    If you didn't have anything to add that was meaningful and/or could add to the debate, it shouldn't be posted. This is a debate board, not a "mock, poke fun of board". If Squatch's comment is so absurd, then show it to be. "Priceless", does not make a claim, support your position, or refute Squatch's position in the least. And that is precisely what is expected to be done in a discussion of that nature.
    -=]Apokalupsis[=-
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    I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. - Thomas Jefferson




  6. #6
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    Re: How Subtle is Subtle? Can Mods Decide?

    Save the one word remarks for reps
    While laughing at others stupidity, you may want to contemplate your own comedic talents. (link)
    Disclaimer: This information is being provided for informational, educational, and entertainment purposes only.

  7. #7
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    Re: How Subtle is Subtle? Can Mods Decide?

    Snoop is right. "Priceless" would have made a meaningful rep comment.

  8. #8
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    Re: How Subtle is Subtle? Can Mods Decide?

    Quote Originally Posted by Apokalupsis View Post
    Further sjjs, you misuse the word "belie".

    be·lie /bɪˈlaɪ/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[bi-lahy] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation –verb (used with object), -lied, -ly·ing.
    1.to show to be false; contradict: His trembling hands belied his calm voice.
    2.to misrepresent: The newspaper belied the facts.
    3.to act unworthily according to the standards of (a tradition, one's ancestry, one's faith, etc.).
    4.Archaic. to lie about; slander.
    Check fully before posting. Chambers Dictionary (that's a real one, not an online one) has

    belie - fail to fulfill or justify
    It's derived from Shakespearean usage.
    ~ le prime di di mont la vacja no fas formadi ~

  9. #9
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    Re: How Subtle is Subtle? Can Mods Decide?

    Quote Originally Posted by Apokalupsis View Post
    Further sjjs, you misuse the word "belie".

    to act unworthily according to the standards of (a tradition, one's ancestry, one's faith, etc.).
    I don't understand how his usage doesn't fit at least this definition...

    Quote Originally Posted by sjjs
    Simple.

    It's irony. It suggests that the quoted statement was so utterly frightful and ridiculous that it belied comment.
    Seems to me that it would be that "the quoted statement was so utterly frightful and ridiculous that it [acted unworthily according to the standards of] comment." Of course, one may argue that his standards for commenting on a post may differ from yours or mine, but I can see how this would work. Honestly, from my contextual understanding of the word, I didn't even question it's dictionary definition until you brought it up. I still don't see how a word synonymous with "unworthy," and is also the antonym of "deserving" wouldn't work exactly as it was used even totally disregarding the definition he provided... Perhaps if he had said "commenting" that might have made a difference to you?

    Not to derail the thread or anything... I do think, SJJS, that you should have kept that remark to rep. Though I have a hard time doing such myself at times.
    "And that, my lord, is how we know the Earth to be banana-shaped." ~ Monty Python


  10. #10
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    Re: How Subtle is Subtle? Can Mods Decide?

    REGARDLESS of opinions of proper grammar, a 1 word post is always unacceptable as an argument (interesting to see that after the verbose, detailed explanation, all that is focused upon is the claim of an irrelevant word usage). Provide a cogent argument, not a snide remark.
    -=]Apokalupsis[=-
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  11. #11
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    Re: How Subtle is Subtle? Can Mods Decide?

    Quote Originally Posted by Apokalupsis View Post
    REGARDLESS of opinions of proper grammar, a 1 word post is always unacceptable as an argument (interesting to see that after the verbose, detailed explanation, all that is focused upon is the claim of an irrelevant word usage). Provide a cogent argument, not a snide remark.
    Here's a scenario:

    A writes Abortion is wrong.

    B writes Why?

    This, under your rules, would be unacceptable. However, a verbose argument (containing far too many words than is necessary by its own definition) would be acceptable. Curious that quantity appears to count for more than quality.

    Finally, for a response to your comments in your previous post which I ignored, see my previous posts.
    ~ le prime di di mont la vacja no fas formadi ~

  12. #12
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    Re: How Subtle is Subtle? Can Mods Decide?

    Quote Originally Posted by sjjs View Post
    Here's a scenario:

    A writes Abortion is wrong.

    B writes Why?

    This, under your rules, would be unacceptable. However, a verbose argument (containing far too many words than is necessary by its own definition) would be acceptable. Curious that quantity appears to count for more than quality.

    Finally, for a response to your comments in your previous post which I ignored, see my previous posts.
    Per the updated rules, both are wrong and the above should never happen. The reason both are wrong is because "Abortion is wrong" with no defense leads to "No it isn't" and the discussion goes nowhere. A simple one-word reply such as "Why" I don't even think is capable of being posted (do we still have a ten character minimum?).

    But it's not that quantity takes precedence over quality. Your post had no actual quality. It was a "subtlety" geared, by your own admission, towards the attention of visitors to the site. As it wasn't geared towards furthering the discussion, lacked anything of substance to contribute to the progression of the thread, it was spam.
    But in your hearts revere Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect, keeping a clear conscience, so that those who speak maliciously against your good behavior in Christ may be ashamed of their slander.
    1 Peter 3:15-16

  13. #13
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    Re: How Subtle is Subtle? Can Mods Decide?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Hyde View Post
    Your post had no actual quality.
    Opinion only. Can you back this up with hard facts as you require others to do, for example if they were talking about abortion being wrong.
    ~ le prime di di mont la vacja no fas formadi ~

  14. #14
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    Re: How Subtle is Subtle? Can Mods Decide?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Hyde View Post
    As it wasn't geared towards furthering the discussion, lacked anything of substance to contribute to the progression of the thread, it was spam.


    What makes you and the other mods gods of diction and such?


    Please


    Occasionally being wrong is ok, and you and Apok are very wrong here.
    No reason to be dicks to him for asking a question. THAT IS WHAT SITE FEEDBACK IS for right?

    Or wrong?

    However 3 things will happen here,
    Syl will back you both up (guaranteed TRUTH be damned)
    Someone (most likely me or sjjs will receive a warning and or temporary banning)
    Both you and Apok will claim superiority where it is obvious you have none!

    Again, its ok to be wrong.
    Last edited by wanxtrmBANNED; October 10th, 2007 at 10:21 AM.

  15. #15
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    Re: How Subtle is Subtle? Can Mods Decide?

    Quote Originally Posted by LP in rep
    ladyphoenix disagrees: Interesting to see that you're the one who was all bent out of shape about the usage of the word. Not that I disagree with the deleting of the original offending post... but seriously, Apok. You are the one who started correcting grammar here.
    The grammar issue is an irrelevant point. Let's say it does fit. Now what? Does it justify the spam? Absolutely not! It's absurd to focus on that which does not matter. Note, I said focus.

    Please focus on what matters LP. Nitpicking the far less important points isn't productive in the least.


    _________________________________ Post Merged _________________________________


    Quote Originally Posted by sjjs View Post
    Here's a scenario:

    A writes Abortion is wrong.

    B writes Why?

    This, under your rules, would be unacceptable. However, a verbose argument (containing far too many words than is necessary by its own definition) would be acceptable. Curious that quantity appears to count for more than quality.
    Not at all. Asking a question is not a replacement for an argument, it's inquiry or clarification. You yourself have admitted that your 1 word response, is a replacement for an argument. That's where the problem lies. It isn't.

    Finally, for a response to your comments in your previous post which I ignored, see my previous posts.
    Good. Then go back to my response. You'll find where I explain how your original comments are in error. That's how discussion works sjjs...one person says A, then another says B. You going back and repeating A, when it's already been addressed is isn't productive discourse.
    Last edited by Apokalupsis; October 10th, 2007 at 11:01 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
    -=]Apokalupsis[=-
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  16. #16
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    Re: How Subtle is Subtle? Can Mods Decide?

    Quote Originally Posted by Apokalupsis View Post
    The grammar issue is an irrelevant point. Let's say it does fit. Now what? Does it justify the spam? Absolutely not! It's absurd to focus on that which does not matter. Note, I said focus.

    Please focus on what matters LP. Nitpicking the far less important points isn't productive in the least.
    No, Apok, you tried to make him look like an ass by pointing out something trivial, and you were wrong. You shifted the focus. I do now and have always agreed with the deletion of his original post and the suggestion that such should be left for rep. I have stated that, almost ad nauseum. I just don't appreciate the condecending nature of your picking out some wild grammatical error, that wasn't even an error, and then getting pissy when I pointed out you were wrong. It was big enough of a point for you to bring it up, it was big enough to be corrected.
    "And that, my lord, is how we know the Earth to be banana-shaped." ~ Monty Python


  17. #17
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    Re: How Subtle is Subtle? Can Mods Decide?

    Quote Originally Posted by sjjs View Post
    Opinion only. Can you back this up with hard facts as you require others to do, for example if they were talking about abortion being wrong.
    Unnecessary. The ultimate decision comes down to the staff's understanding of our policy as set forth by the staff and myself. I've also said from day 1 here, that often times the judgement is subjective. It's absolutely impossible for there always to be an objective standard in every case reviewed. It cannot be done. Thus, the staff makes a decision to the best of their ability as they understand MY goals (that they themselves almost always share and agree with) for this community.

    In short, I don't want spam, nor do they. Your post "Priceless", was spam and as it's been explained by everyone who understands ODN's policies and goals, it is better suited for a rep, not a post.

    Quote Originally Posted by wannaextreme View Post
    What makes you and the other mods gods of diction and such?
    Their training, their understanding of MY goals for ODN. I don't want spam. Never in the history of ODN, has it been acceptable or encouraged behavior, to give 1 word arguments wanna. You are confused with another community or something because you've been here long enough to know that.

    It's one thing to disagree with an existing policy, it's another to pretend it isn't the existing policy. If you want to change an existing policy, fine, make a case for it. But you aren't attempting to do that. Instead, you are arguing that the decision is against policy. It isn't. WE WROTE IT for cryin' out loud.

    Please


    Occasionally being wrong is ok, and you and Apok are very wrong here.
    1) No one said it wasn't ok to be wrong. Strawman.
    2) The staff decision is in compliance with ODN's objectives and rules. Thus, what would make you and sjjs in error.

    Never in the history of ODN has it been acceptable to post a 1 word argument. You have us confused with another community.

    No reason to be dicks to him for asking a question. THAT IS WHAT SITE FEEDBACK IS for right?
    ...wtf? Where is anyone being a dick wanna? Good grief, that's just absurd. You mean because we happen to disagree, we are dicks? That's rather silly don't you think?

    However 3 things will happen here,
    Syl will back you both up (guaranteed TRUTH be damned)
    Someone (most likely me or sjjs will receive a warning and or temporary banning)
    Both you and Apok will claim superiority where it is obvious you have none!
    Actually, I have all the authority that is necessary to make a judgment call. I myself would have done the same exact thing and I wouldn't need a second opinion to validate my decision. This policy has been effect since we opened our doors wanna. Again, you have us confused with another community...one that apparently doesn't have a spam policy.

    Again, its ok to be wrong.
    I truly wish you'd listen to your own advice.
    -=]Apokalupsis[=-
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    I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. - Thomas Jefferson




  18. #18
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    Re: How Subtle is Subtle? Can Mods Decide?

    Quote Originally Posted by Apokalupsis View Post
    The grammar issue is an irrelevant point. Let's say it does fit. Now what? Does it justify the spam? Absolutely not! It's absurd to focus on that which does not matter. Note, I said focus.

    Please focus on what matters LP. Nitpicking the far less important points isn't productive in the least.
    .
    So site feedback is not for that?

    Btw who is really nitpicking here.

    Asking a question in site feedback and receiving haranguing (is this too big a word?) bad (there we go) responses from administrators is what is wrong, and non productive.

  19. #19
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    Re: How Subtle is Subtle? Can Mods Decide?

    Quote Originally Posted by ladyphoenix View Post
    No, Apok, you tried to make him look like an ass by pointing out something trivial, and you were wrong. You shifted the focus. I do now and have always agreed with the deletion of his original post and the suggestion that such should be left for rep. I have stated that, almost ad nauseum. I just don't appreciate the condecending nature of your picking out some wild grammatical error, that wasn't even an error, and then getting pissy when I pointed out you were wrong. It was big enough of a point for you to bring it up, it was big enough to be corrected.
    I didn't get pissy about the correction LP. I made a comment that despite a verbose explanation of the policy and decision...all that was responded to was a moot point. It does not matter if it was grammatically correct or not. The ISSUE is whether or not the post was spam...it was. Using proper grammar doesn't change that. Your focus, was definitely on the grammar issue. sjjs didn't even bother with the explanation and instead, went to the grammar issue, as if that made up for what matter...incorrect posting in this community.

    That was 2 posts after mine, that FOCUSED on the non-essential. 1 post didn't even address the essential. Your's touched on it.

    Thus, my observation that what mattered wasn't being focused on and what didn't matter was, stands.


    _________________________________ Post Merged _________________________________


    Quote Originally Posted by wannaextreme View Post
    So site feedback is not for that?
    No. See the op for what Site Feedback is for. The Site Feedback has never been for ignoring pertinent issues in the op and instead, focusing on that which is irrelevant wanna. Never.

    Btw who is really nitpicking here.

    Asking a question in site feedback and receiving haranguing (is this too big a word?) bad (there we go) responses from administrators is what is wrong, and non productive.
    Again, more accusations and 100% failure to support them. You are batting 100 there in that department.
    Last edited by Apokalupsis; October 10th, 2007 at 11:29 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
    -=]Apokalupsis[=-
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  20. #20
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    Re: How Subtle is Subtle? Can Mods Decide?

    I rest my case, feedback is assumed to be for FAIR feedback not snide and petty comments by adults in a position of leadership. Your pettiness is showing through yet again APok, Double Standards!


    _________________________________ Post Merged _________________________________


    How is the following snide, rude, and disrespectful?

    Please EXPLAIN.

    So site feedback is not for that?

    Btw who is really nitpicking here.

    Asking a question in site feedback and receiving haranguing (is this too big a word?) bad (there we go) responses from administrators is what is wrong, and non productive.




    Apokalupsis disagrees: For unnecessary and unwarranted snide, rude, disrespectful remarks.


    It is necessary, tyranny only works when those that realize it for what it is do nothing!
    Snide? Seriously get an education do you even know what snide means? What I am saying now is snide! lol
    Rude, and what you did to a newbie (that was using proper channels is what?)
    Disrespectful? One must have respect and or earn it to be disrespected, you should really apologize for being an ass Apok.

    However you wont, because you are never wrong.
    Last edited by wanxtrmBANNED; October 10th, 2007 at 11:39 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

 

 
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