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  1. #1
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    If we are the body

    I'm really very interested to see what some of you christians think about this song. Your interpretations, your impressions, your overall feelings.

    YouTube - casting crowns- if we are the body

    “If We Are The Body”

    It’s crowded in worship today
    As she slips in trying to fade into the faces
    The girl’s teasing laughter is carrying farther than they know
    Farther than they know

    But if we are the body
    Why aren’t His arms reaching?
    Why aren’t His hands healing?
    Why aren’t His words teaching?
    And if we are the body
    Why aren’t His feet going?
    Why is His love not showing them there is a way?
    There is a way

    A traveler is far away from home
    He sheds his coat and quietly sinks into the back row
    The weight of their judgemental glances
    Tells him that his chances are better out on the road

    Jesus payed much too high a price
    For us to pick and choose who should come
    And we are the body of Christ

    Jesus is the way
    There is a song by DC Talk ("What if I Stumble," I think)that opens "The greatest single cause of atheism in the world is christians who acknowledge Jesus with their lips, then walk out the door, and deny Him by their lifestyle. That is what an unbelieving world simply finds unbelievable."

    These two seem to be getting at the same thing. That there is an unwelcoming and hypocritical air to a good number of your brothers and sisters in christ... At least enough that there are songs about them.

    Do you all see and recognize such? How do you explain them and their behavior? How do you think their behavior affects you and non-christian people's perception of you? Do you care? How do you think that the Lamb feels about these people?

    I know that this is wholly subjective and entirely dependant upon each of you, individually. So I'm not looking for the "right" answer or anything.
    "And that, my lord, is how we know the Earth to be banana-shaped." ~ Monty Python


  2. #2
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    Re: If we are the body

    Yes I see it and recognize it. How do I explain it? There is no one reason for this.

    Some are individuals who are best described by the term "Sunday Christians." These are individuals who tend to really give no thought to why they believe or go to church or call themselves Christians. They grew up in a family who went to church and so they go to church. Other than that they never think about Christ.

    Then there are individuals who are quite zealous, but simply don't realize how hypocritical their actions can be.

    Then there are the struggling individuals like me, who know why they believe and strive to live the life, but who get so caught up in all the other crap that we are constantly failing.

    There are more reasons and causes out there than I could possibly cover.

    As far as how this affects non-believers, I think DC Talk says it all in the song you mention. They start the song by claiming that single biggest cause of atheism is the hypocrisy of those who claim to believe. A recent thread by Xanadu Moo asked why people don't believe and most mentioned the hypocritical behavior of Christians. I think if the rest were honest they would mention this as well.

    I don't by into the idea that atheists are in anyway more logical than Christians and that it it the logic that drives most of them. Rather I believe they are driven to atheism primarily through apathy and observation of hypocrisy.

    Yes of course I care, which is why I put forth such an effort to eliminate hypocrisy in my own life.

  3. #3
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    Cool Re: If we are the body

    Quote Originally Posted by ladyphoenix View Post
    I'm really very interested to see what some of you christians think about this song. Your interpretations, your impressions, your overall feelings.

    YouTube - casting crowns- if we are the body



    There is a song by DC Talk ("What if I Stumble," I think)that opens "The greatest single cause of atheism in the world is christians who acknowledge Jesus with their lips, then walk out the door, and deny Him by their lifestyle. That is what an unbelieving world simply finds unbelievable."

    These two seem to be getting at the same thing. That there is an unwelcoming and hypocritical air to a good number of your brothers and sisters in christ... At least enough that there are songs about them.

    1.Do you all see and recognize such? 2.How do you explain them and their behavior? 3.How do you think their behavior affects you and non-christian people's perception of you? 4.Do you care? 5.How do you think that the Lamb feels about these people?

    I know that this is wholly subjective and entirely dependant upon each of you, individually. So I'm not looking for the "right" answer or anything.
    1. Yes I see it all the time
    2.I don't explain anyone, but god will judge them, however i will say, Cause you cant be trying to preach to someone if your out their smoking crack and such, hypocrisy is running rampant nowadays, especially because people misinterpret the bible. some people need to learn that they can be buddy buddy with people, but that in the end, yes what they are saying is going to step on peoples toes, and that the truth must be told, and also they shouldn't sugar coat anything, I've have noticed some people Just opposite of what your saying they love everyone, and thats all fine and well, but you must repent to get into heaven, and of course believe in Christ, but as far as the body, it isn't so healthy right now.
    3. well it makes it hard to help those who need it, (not that i haven't done it)
    4.yes i care
    5. I feel the lamb weeps, because those who were touched by him have strayed

    Heres my question to the Christians out there. How close is according to your beliefs can you get too non Christians before your "sleeping with the enemy" and not being a good member of the body of Christ.
    Nothing will stand against the returning of He who hath died for us and His Father who breathed the breath of life into the dust that created man.
    Humbleness, Love, and loyalty to the word and his message.

    BF55.....

  4. #4
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    Re: If we are the body

    Society is becoming more secular nowadays; churches are losing their stature in society and fundamentalist Christians are becoming earnestly concerned. So many people purport to be Christians and live lifestyles worse than those of atheists - it's a trend that is eroding the integrity of the church as a whole.

    Incidentally, I love that song.
    [CENTER]-=] Starcreator [=-

  5. #5
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    Re: If we are the body

    ladyphoenix - Those 'Sunday Christians' and those who try to live the message and example of Jesus can be easily identified/separated - King James Bible version:
    'Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?' - Matt 7:16

    If by my words and actions I do not set a Christian example (love), then, 'Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.' - 1 Corithians 13:1
    Or as we say more forthrightly here in Yorkshire, 'He's all mouth and no trousers'.
    "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." - Anais Nin.
    Emitte lucem et veritatem - Send out light and truth.
    'Fere libenter homines id quod volunt credunt' - Julius Caesar (rough translation, 'Men will think what they want to think')
    Kill my boss? Do I dare live out the American dream? - Homer Simpson.

  6. #6
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    Re: If we are the body

    i have heard the song, in fact it is a christian song, its saying that we need to be betetr axamp-les mbecuase everyone thinks that christians are stubborn, poushy ectectra, we dont mean to be that way..if christian acted the way the Bible told mthem too, the wolrd would like them, but i admit were not perfect.
    You rock my world.

  7. #7
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    Re: If we are the body

    That there is an unwelcoming and hypocritical air to a good number of your brothers and sisters in christ... At least enough that there are songs about them.
    Hypocrisy has troubled people since time immemorial. Jesus talked about hypocrites as well.

    The problem is that there's a disconnect between Christianity's standards and the state of our souls. The hypocrisy stems from trying to adapt Christ's standards as your own while still being a sinful person. Hypocrisy is pretty much a given. The question is how we deal with it; if we soften our hearts, so to speak, and remain open to criticism, we can perceive our flaws and work on them with God's help.

    The problem comes when people aren't willing to address their flaws, when people think that they've attained righteousness. They then make the impertinent assumption that they're no longer just talking about Jesus's life, they're living it. They turn a blind eye to their own lives and look only at others.

    And by "they", I mean "we".


    The unwelcoming atmosphere stems from this hypocrisy: how can you be a part of a community of sinners if you don't view yourself as one?

    These problems--inward blindness and rejection of community--need to be addressed. However, the solution is not to simply say "all behavior is acceptable, we don't judge here". We have to rebuke our brothers and sisters when they fall into sin, but we do so with love and compassion. If we fail to rebuke them, we do them a disservice by allowing them to continue in sin. Before you get too riled up about having the audacity to fight your battles for you, think of it as keeping your alcoholic brother or sister from getting drunk.
    If I am capable of grasping God objectively, I do not believe, but precisely because I cannot do this I must believe. - Soren Kierkegaard
    **** you, I won't do what you tell me

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  8. #8
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    Re: If we are the body

    Quote Originally Posted by amymariah View Post
    i have heard the song, in fact it is a christian song, its saying that we need to be betetr axamp-les mbecuase everyone thinks that christians are stubborn, poushy ectectra, we dont mean to be that way..if christian acted the way the Bible told mthem too, the wolrd would like them, but i admit were not perfect.
    This thread has many purposes. The first is to show that I am cultured enough to be familiar with contemporary christian music. The second is to ask christians to evaluate the behaviors of their peers, and talk about them. The last thing is to help me (and hopefully other atheists) a better understanding and closer relationship with the board theists.

    So yes, I'm well aware, thank you.
    "And that, my lord, is how we know the Earth to be banana-shaped." ~ Monty Python


  9. #9
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    Re: If we are the body

    I have not heard DC Talk in years, for that matter Amy Grant, Newsboys, and or Stryper!


    Anyhow great thread- and great questions.

  10. #10
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    Re: If we are the body

    Yes, unfortunately I do see this behavior quite often.

    I can't explain it very well, except to point out that most people in society today want instant gratification, and if they have to work at something that requires patience and faith, a lot of times they just don't bother.

    By saying this, I'm referring to Christians who started out with enthusiasm and strength, but stopped growing as a Christian, because it required too much work, and more sacrifice than they thought.

    This is does not represent all Christians, but many of us are guilty of it.

    I think that kind of attitude does affect society's opinion of us, because they see all the of the extreme "hellfire and brimstone" sects of Christianity, and then they see some of us acting very "holier than thou", and I guess
    it's very confusing
    for them.

    Yes, I care very much what others think of Christians.

    I think our Saviour is very sad about the example some of us are presenting, but as always, will be forgiving if we come to Him with a contrite heart.
    "As long as I have a voice, I will speak for those who have none".

  11. #11
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    Re: If we are the body

    I think our Saviour is very sad about the example some of us are presenting, but as always, will be forgiving if we come to Him with a contrite heart.
    I don't think that's fair. I think our Savior is very sad about the example all of us are presenting. All have sinned; there isn't some small, select group of Christians that have it exactly right.
    If I am capable of grasping God objectively, I do not believe, but precisely because I cannot do this I must believe. - Soren Kierkegaard
    **** you, I won't do what you tell me

    HOLY CRAP MY BLOG IS AWESOME

  12. #12
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    Re: If we are the body

    Lady.. it is a very good thread. This is what I think.

    Once upon a time..
    A preacher.. (While preaching) took a 100 dollar bill from his wallet. He walked to the front row, and said to the first person.. "This is your $100" ... Then to the next person and said "This is your $100" he said this to every person in that row. (I'm guessing a small church) He then returned to the stage, and told everyone how surprised he was that no one believed him. Everyone he presented the money to, said with their mouths.. "Yes preacher that's mine" .. but no one actually took the money.
    He said, if you really believed me.. then you would have taken it from me.

    So the reason "Christians" act different than proclaimed beliefs .. is because they do not really believe. If there is one thing I have learned in life, it is that people act the way they believe. I know I struggle with this in my own life.
    I apologize to anyone waiting on a response from me. I am experiencing a time warp, suddenly their are not enough hours in a day. As soon as I find a replacement part to my flux capacitor regulator, time should resume it's normal flow.

  13. #13
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    Re: If we are the body

    Good point, MindTrap. The Bible says (I paraphrase poorly from memory) that not all who say "Lord, Lord" will find their name written in the book of life.

    If there is one thing I have learned in life, it is that people act the way they believe.

    It was the American school of Pragmatism that came to the same conclusion Perhaps they would have done well to read the Bible: "Out of the fullness of the heart, the mouth speaks."
    If I am capable of grasping God objectively, I do not believe, but precisely because I cannot do this I must believe. - Soren Kierkegaard
    **** you, I won't do what you tell me

    HOLY CRAP MY BLOG IS AWESOME

  14. #14
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    Re: If we are the body

    Quote Originally Posted by ladyphoenix View Post
    This thread has many purposes. The first is to show that I am cultured enough to be familiar with contemporary christian music. The second is to ask christians to evaluate the behaviors of their peers, and talk about them. The last thing is to help me (and hopefully other atheists) a better understanding and closer relationship with the board theists.

    So yes, I'm well aware, thank you.
    well aware of what? im confused. I understand that you expected for christians to evaluate themselves, that what the song itself is before.
    You rock my world.

  15. #15
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    Re: If we are the body

    I apologize, I should have quoted your rep. In two different instances you tell me that I'm referring to christian songs. My point is that I know that or I wouldn't have started the thread in the manner I did.
    "And that, my lord, is how we know the Earth to be banana-shaped." ~ Monty Python


  16. #16
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    Re: If we are the body

    Chad said basically everything I wanted to say.....but there are somethings I'll add.

    Do you all see and recognize such? How do you explain them and their behavior? How do you think their behavior affects you and non-christian people's perception of you? Do you care? How do you think that the Lamb feels about these people?
    I do see this quite often. But, I think a contributor to this could be how people misinterpret thier Bibles. Some people read God's word and twist it in their own minds to conform it to what they want it to mean. That way, they get to live thier lives the way they want to, without excuses, but, rather falsely, attributing it to their beliefs and God's own wants.

    the sad thing is, while there are Christians that follow the truth and try hard to live the right way and actually be the people God wants them to be, they are overlooked. It's easier to focus on those that are doing wrong....because they are usually the ones that are more outspoken and loud. They go about preaching the wrong things, and become targets for those unbelievers. That's why so often, you hear people say...."I won't go to church, because it's full of hypocrites."

    It hurts that non believer's have to work so hard to sift through the church to find out what REAL Christians are and what the true word is.

    I think God looks down sometimes and shakes His head. We tend to look and search for our "comfort zones". We're scared to step out of them. Sure, we'll applaud those that stand up for faith, like the girl in Columbine who wasn't afraid to admit her belief. But, would we do the same? We don't go door to door preaching the word, we don't reach out to those in tattered clothes at church, and we don't travel to countries where Christianity is opposed because we worry what people think. That we might be pointed out.....that we might stand out for doing what is right and be critized.
    I can only be who He allows me to be, I can only stand where He places me. 1Peter 5:6
    The true man wants two things: danger and play. For that reason he wants woman, as the most dangerous plaything. ---Friedrich Nietzsche

 

 

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