Welcome guest, is this your first visit? Create Account now to join.
  • Login:

Welcome to the Online Debate Network.

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed.

Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 4 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 79
  1. #1
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    170
    Post Thanks / Like

    A question to atheists...

    If you had the power to do so, would you eliminate religion from the planet,and if so, why?

    In addition to the original question, what would you do to fill the void of religion in people's lives?

  2. #2
    Registered User

    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    9,470
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: A question to atheists...

    Quote Originally Posted by supercodes View Post
    If you had the power to do so, would you eliminate religion from the planet,and if so, why?
    Hopefully no one would be that foolish, considering the test cases of Stalinist USSR and Mao-era People's Republic of China.

  3. #3
    I've been given a "timeout"

    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Who are you? Why are you asking me this?
    Posts
    4,064
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: A question to atheists...

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinBrowning View Post
    Hopefully no one would be that foolish, considering the test cases of Stalinist USSR and Mao-era People's Republic of China.
    Ya know Hitler had sex? Therefore, sex is evil and leads to holocausts

  4. #4
    ODN Community Regular

    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    4,156
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: A question to atheists...

    If morality could be preserved without superstitious fear, then I would favour it. We have plenty of evidence that atheists are just as moral as theists by common moral standards in the context of the modern US (where prison rates are lower, per capita, among atheists than the religious), but we have to keep in mind that at this time, professed atheism is still only common among a certain educated elite. I'm not sure how functional atheism would be if universalized across their diverse population. I am guessing, based on the fact that America is becoming more and more secular and I haven't seen a decline in morality, that it would result in a society based on morality without faith. This hypothesis is well-supported among a number of European nations with high rates of atheism.

    Kevin's comment hardly merits addressing, as it implies an unsubstantiated causal link between the absence of religion and the presence of widespread atrocities. Indeed, in Sweden (where 85% of the population is composed of atheists) there is a crime rate considerably lower than that of the US.
    [CENTER]-=] Starcreator [=-

  5. #5
    ODN Community Regular

    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    I'm lost
    Posts
    3,026
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: A question to atheists...

    No, people have the right to believe whichever way they want to believe no matter how pathetic I may think it is.

    I think it is cute that kids believe in the toothfairy and santa claus, even though they are fake...

    Some people just need an imaginary being to teach morals to them. Without that, some people will not have morals (as some people on ODN have claimed without religion you do not have morals).

    But no, I would want the ability to believe how I believe, and I would not try to elimante a religion like the Christians has tried to do to...
    Show me the government that does not infringe upon anyone's rights, and I will no longer call myself an anarchist.~Jacob Halbrooks
    "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.~Benjamin Franklin
    "Go big or Go home"~ LoLo Bean

  6. #6
    Registered User
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    51
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: A question to atheists...

    Quote Originally Posted by Just Me View Post
    I think it is cute that kids believe in the toothfairy and santa claus, even though they are fake...
    Oh come on. Please do not relate the belief in god to believing in the toothfairy or santa clause.

    Some people just need an imaginary being to teach morals to them. Without that, some people will not have morals (as some people on ODN have claimed without religion you do not have morals).
    I agree with this though. Many people do need a higher being to hold on to, and to show them how to be a good person. I have a deep belief in god (no, that does not mean I think you will burn in hell for not holding the same belief) but I think I would be a good person without god in my life as well.

    The only reason I see for an atheist to wish to remove religion from the world is just to have everyone agree with them. I mean, sure, you could site all the wars and fights that have been commited over religion, but I have enough faith in humanity to believe that even without religion, we are creative enough to find something else to kill eachother over.
    There are 10 types of people in the world, those who know binary and those who don't.

  7. #7
    Registered User

    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    9,470
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: A question to atheists...

    Quote Originally Posted by starcreator View Post
    Indeed, in Sweden (where 85% of the population is composed of atheists) there is a crime rate considerably lower than that of the US.
    The question concerned the forcible elimination of religion, not the freely-chosen religious apathy of a country's majority, while a significant religious minority are allowed to retain their rights. As for Sweden's crime rate being lower, it probably is related to the fact that fewer things are illegal. If you mean only violent crime, granted, but the fact that America has a more diverse population, which causes social strain, must not be ignored.

  8. #8
    ODN Community Regular

    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    I'm lost
    Posts
    3,026
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: A question to atheists...

    Quote Originally Posted by Beakerr View Post
    Oh come on. Please do not relate the belief in god to believing in the toothfairy or santa clause.
    Why not? Because YOU think they are not REAL?

    Point being, I think God is fake aswell
    Show me the government that does not infringe upon anyone's rights, and I will no longer call myself an anarchist.~Jacob Halbrooks
    "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.~Benjamin Franklin
    "Go big or Go home"~ LoLo Bean

  9. #9
    I've been given a "timeout"

    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Who are you? Why are you asking me this?
    Posts
    4,064
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: A question to atheists...

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinBrowning View Post
    The question concerned the forcible elimination of religion, not the freely-chosen religious apathy of a country's majority, while a significant religious minority are allowed to retain their rights. As for Sweden's crime rate being lower, it probably is related to the fact that fewer things are illegal. If you mean only violent crime, granted, but the fact that America has a more diverse population, which causes social strain, must not be ignored.
    No, you simply interpreted it as such. But the point remains, you've not demonstrated anything beyond a casual link between ideological atheism of the state and the crimes of the nations you listed.
    Further, unless all of the crime is being commited along racial lines, or certian racial groups are being disadvantaged (which I somehow doubt you'd be believing) into a life of crime, how does the more diverse makeup of the states mitigate the observation?

  10. #10
    ODN's Crotchety Old Man

    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Location, Location
    Posts
    9,552
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: A question to atheists...

    Quote Originally Posted by supercodes View Post
    If you had the power to do so, would you eliminate religion from the planet,and if so, why?

    In addition to the original question, what would you do to fill the void of religion in people's lives?
    To answer both your questions as best as I can, I donít know that Iíd want to eradicate religion altogether. I rather think that religion would be well-serviced by the welcome inclusion of reason and evidence in its applications. Religion, in and of itself is harmless (and unquestionably a great benefit to many). But when it encourages the abdication of reason in the form of things such as faith healing in lieu of proper medical treatments or suicide bombings (among many other examples)Ö well, that says all that needs to be said.

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinBrowning View Post
    Hopefully no one would be that foolish, considering the test cases of Stalinist USSR and Mao-era People's Republic of China.
    These are such stupid examples, for more reasons than the one Iíll focus on here. Letís assume for a moment that atheism does indeed lead to genocide as Kevin has once again, rather predictably Ė and quite fallaciously Ė spelled out here. If this is true, then that means that theism leads to things like the Holocaust and every bit of crazy terrorist nonsense we see today as well as all the horrors and atrocities described in the Koran and the Old Testament. This means that in terms of gross human rights violations which include (but are not limited to) unspeakable cruelties, injustice, mass murder and genocide, theism comes only second to atheism. That is, theism is not the best belief system; it is simply not the absolute worst quite yet.

    Not that I subscribe to that, but there it is for what it may be worth.

  11. #11
    Need to validate email

    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Life by the drop. I've come to understand just what that means.
    Posts
    3,625
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: A question to atheists...

    Star:
    Kevin's comment hardly merits addressing, as it implies an unsubstantiated causal link between the absence of religion and the presence of widespread atrocities. Indeed, in Sweden (where 85% of the population is composed of atheists) there is a crime rate considerably lower than that of the US.
    Then:

    World Top 10 - Countries With Highest Reported Crime Rates
    Country Crime Rate

    Iceland 14,726.95
    Sweden 13,455.08
    New Zealand 12,586.64
    Grenada 10,177.89
    Norway 10,086.72
    England & Wales 9,823.38
    Denmark 9,460.38
    Finland 8,697.37
    Scotland 8,428.97
    Canada 4,123.97

    Crime Rate in Countries, Top Ten Countries With Highest Reported Crime Rates

    ???
    When the power of love becomes stronger than the love of power, there will be peace..........jimi hendrix.

  12. #12
    Will ADMIN 4 Gas Money

    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Rochester, NY, USA
    Posts
    1,501
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: A question to atheists...

    Quote Originally Posted by starcreator View Post
    Kevin's comment hardly merits addressing, as it implies an unsubstantiated causal link between the absence of religion and the presence of widespread atrocities. Indeed, in Sweden (where 85% of the population is composed of atheists) there is a crime rate considerably lower than that of the US.
    Sweden didn't spring forth from nothingness a secular state where most of its inhabitants don't believe in religion, though, it's gradually progressed to that point. At this point it's probably impossible to determine what kind of moral standards a society would have were it purely atheistic. You'd need to find a true example of one that has risen that way.

    Oh, and what CC said.
    -= Phrique =-

    I've got mad hits like I was Rod Carew.
    - The Beastie Boys

  13. #13
    ODN's Crotchety Old Man

    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Location, Location
    Posts
    9,552
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: A question to atheists...

    Quote Originally Posted by phrique View Post
    Sweden didn't spring forth from nothingness a secular state where most of its inhabitants don't believe in religion, though, it's gradually progressed to that point. At this point it's probably impossible to determine what kind of moral standards a society would have were it purely atheistic. You'd need to find a true example of one that has risen that way.
    I don't know that such a thing is possible really. I'd be willing to bet no such thing has ever existed. I further think that diminishing theism is a product of natural evolutionary progression as humans become more and more capable of understanding the world.

    Quote Originally Posted by phrique View Post
    Oh, and what CC said.
    I know, right? WTF's up with that?

  14. #14
    ODN Community Regular

    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    3,795
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: A question to atheists...

    Quote Originally Posted by supercodes View Post
    If you had the power to do so, would you eliminate religion from the planet,and if so, why?
    Nah...personal choice and all.

    In addition to the original question, what would you do to fill the void of religion in people's lives?
    Call 'em community centers instead of churches, and replace prayers with social gatherings.
    Freedom is you choosing for yourself. Law is the government choosing for you. The two are opposites.

    Pray - To ask that the laws of the universe be annulled in behalf of a single petitioner confessedly unworthy - Ambrose Bierce
    Faith - Belief without evidence in what is told by one who speaks without knowledge about things without parallel - Ambrose Bierce

  15. #15
    I've been given a "timeout"

    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Banville
    Posts
    4,160
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: A question to atheists...

    Quote Originally Posted by supercodes View Post
    If you had the power to do so, would you eliminate religion from the planet,and if so, why?
    I would not eliminate it, idiots need something to follow. However I would separate the morons from the intellectual.

    Quote Originally Posted by supercodes View Post
    In addition to the original question, what would you do to fill the void of religion in people's lives?
    Work camps for the morons, make em seem like cities, but really just easily controlled work camps. After all if they believe a god is real; how hard would it be to convince them they are free.

    Oh wait thats what they are doing now!

  16. #16
    Registered User

    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    9,470
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: A question to atheists...

    Quote Originally Posted by Dionysus View Post
    These are such stupid examples, for more reasons than the one Iíll focus on here. Letís assume for a moment that atheism does indeed lead to genocide as Kevin has once again, rather predictably Ė and quite fallaciously Ė spelled out here.
    That is, of course, not what I said. My post stated that elimination of religion is a bad idea, based on two historical examples. I said nothing about genocide. Stalin and Mao didn't commit genocide, but they did commit mass murder.

    This means that in terms of gross human rights violations which include (but are not limited to) unspeakable cruelties, injustice, mass murder and genocide, theism comes only second to atheism. That is, theism is not the best belief system; it is simply not the absolute worst quite yet.

    Not that I subscribe to that, but there it is for what it may be worth.
    Atheistic regimes have killed many times more people than the Catholic Church, Islamic terrorism and all other religious forces combined. The communist governments of the 20th century caused bloodshed the likes of which this world could never have previously imagined.

  17. #17
    Registered User

    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Dallas, The Buckle of the Bible Belt, Texas
    Posts
    1,160
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: A question to atheists...

    Quote Originally Posted by supercodes View Post
    If you had the power to do so, would you eliminate religion from the planet,and if so, why?
    No, but if I had the power, I would eliminate religion from government, completely. There are plenty of religions that aren't theistic and quite mellow. I believe we all should have the freedom of choice.

    In addition to the original question, what would you do to fill the void of religion in people's lives?
    I would organize Golf scrambles every Sunday, weather permitting. Golf is a very honorable sport, it's non violent, its based on the honor system and is great for networking. Golf is great for socializing and it includes beer. Scrambles make you work as a team. If your team looses, you still had a great day in the park.


    Opposing theory to the creation of the "known universe". Read it carefully, it's not a difficult read on physics and quantum mechanics.

  18. #18
    ODN Community Regular

    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    6,893
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: A question to atheists...

    Its a joke to even begin to try and relate crime stats to religion based on country by country statistics. For one crime is typically related to other factors, such as poverty, home life, racial tensions, etc.

    Its no secret that there is very high crime rates amongst hispanic populations in the south, particularly when you have large numbers of immigrants, both legal and illegal. A lot of them are also not professed atheists. But which is more likely cause for crime, a Catholic background or growing up in poverty in the slums of some California city surrounded by other drugs and crime?

    Why is it that Florida has a 3 times higher crime rate than West Virginia? West Virginia has the lowest crime rate in the US. Followed by North Dakota and South Dakota. Anyone here think that these states have high numbers of atheists?

    Anyone want to argue that this is due to religion?

    Just take a look at France and other areas of mainland Europe where Muslim immigration has brought a host of new problems which include crime. Fact is that the scandinavian countries have not had these same problems to the degree which they exist in the US and other nations.

    Sweden does have lower murder rates, but then they also have more Police per people than the US. Nor does Sweden have poverty that is at all comparable to some places in the US or gangs like MS13, etc.

    What is interesting is that Sweden is 2nd in rapes to the US, compared to other 1st world countries. It also has higher rates of robbery, car theft, etc.

    Getting tough on crime reduces crime

    So isnt it a fallacious argument to say that because Sweden is 85% atheist that they have lower crime? Yes it is. In fact its an incredibly ignorant argument.
    I typically cite original research papers and reviews that are available only to a personal or institutional subscriptional. If you wish a PDF copy of the papers I cite, send me a request.

  19. #19
    I've been given a "timeout"

    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Banville
    Posts
    4,160
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: A question to atheists...

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinBrowning View Post
    Atheistic regimes have killed many times more people than the Catholic Church, Islamic terrorism and all other religious forces combined. The communist governments of the 20th century caused bloodshed the likes of which this world could never have previously imagined.
    Typical response from a "christian" good people these "christians" also a good thing not all of them are like this.


    _________________________________ Post Merged _________________________________


    Quote Originally Posted by chadn737 View Post
    So isnt it a fallacious argument to say that because Sweden is 85% atheist that they have lower crime? Yes it is. In fact its an incredibly ignorant argument.
    Yes it is however isnt it more an ignorant argument to equate EVERY atheist with mass murder like dear old KB always does?
    Last edited by wanxtrmBANNED; December 25th, 2007 at 12:40 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

  20. #20
    I've been given a "timeout"

    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Who are you? Why are you asking me this?
    Posts
    4,064
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: A question to atheists...

    Quote Originally Posted by chadn737 View Post
    So isnt it a fallacious argument to say that because Sweden is 85% atheist that they have lower crime? Yes it is. In fact its an incredibly ignorant argument.
    Yes.

 

 
Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 4 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Atheism: What is it good for?
    By nanderson in forum General Debate
    Replies: 406
    Last Post: April 2nd, 2008, 06:31 AM
  2. If I were an athiest...
    By Xanadu Moo in forum Religion
    Replies: 64
    Last Post: May 9th, 2007, 05:54 AM
  3. A defense of Atheists.
    By wanxtrmBANNED in forum General Debate
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: February 26th, 2007, 08:54 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •