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Thread: Statutory Rape

  1. #1
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    Statutory Rape

    What do you feel stagatory rape should be considered?

    I have known people to get into A LOT of trouble for being with their 17 year old girlfriend while they are 18/19 years old, LUCKALLY they never went to jail, but it tarnished their reputation for life. People think that he raped his girlfriend when he didnt, the sex was consensual and their parents approved of the relationship.

    I think stagatory rape should be that if the girl is under the age of concent and the guy is well over her age (what I feel to be anything over 5 or 6 years if under 18 years old). In florida a 16 year old can be with and have sex with anyone up to the age of 23 (i think thats what the limit is anyways if i remember correct) And in Michigan the age of concent is 16 and i dont think there is a limit as to how old the person can be ((correct me if I am wrong about either of these). I know that Wisconsin the age of concet is 18, along with California I am sure...the rest of the states Im not sure of...So what if the couple is both under 18 for those states, are they both supposed to get into trouble? I think stagatory rape should be just if a person 5 years older than the person who is under age and the parent does not okay this THEN the person should get into trouble, If it werent for my parents okaying my relationship with my ex boyfriend (my daughters father) He would be in jail right now because not only did he sleep with me he got me pregnant at 14 and he is 4 years older than I am, not all people luck out, because I had gotten pregnant and because he was the father they let him off because of my parents okaying it. If we didnt have our daughter he would be in jail, and I dont think thats right.


    What are your thoughts?
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    Re: Stagatory Rape

    I just dont see why people should go to jail because of an age - especially if the age difference isnt THAT big. I also dont see why people freak out when someone who is 16 dates someone who is 21, nobody would say anything if the person was 20 and 25...so there is experience, whos to say that 16 year old hasnt had more experiences than that 21 year old, and even with that, that 25 year old would still have had more experience than the 20 year old, if you're going to set that for the younger ages then you would still have to set it for the older ages too because it is still the same age difference, so no matter what the older one will have "more" experience than the younger.
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    Re: Stagatory Rape

    i agree, i would not consider that rape at all, if it is consensual then there is no problem. However i do believe that if a person has lied about their age, before having sex, then that is wrong.

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    Re: Stagatory Rape

    Wouldnt you say though that a 16 year old is still a teenager in some cases still seen as a child...but a 21 year old is an adult, and is or should be a lot more mature than a 16 year old, so i dont think a 21 year old should be having sex with a 16 year old.
    But at 16, if that teenager agree's to have sex with a 21 year old, it shouldnt be classed as rape at all, it is consensual

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    Re: Stagatory Rape

    What does maturity have to do with it two people who care about eachother and want to be together what should it matter? Maybe that person likes that "immaturity" why should that be denyed to them just because of a number, which that what age really is when you come down to it, it isnt the NUMBER that you are, it comes down to your maturity, now i know that seems to be contradicting but it actually isnt - heres why: just because someone is 35 doesnt mean they are mature, just means they are 35, that person could act really immature, not have a job and isnt trying to get one , has kids but doesnt support them and doesnt care to, the next person is 16 but has a job, goes to school has plans for the future maybe had a child early but takes care of that child on their own except for a little help here and there (which is needed no matter how old you are). whos the "older" one in that scenario? Goes to show you age the number has nothing to do with it, age the experience and maturity level does - BUT that person may want someone immature because they may still be immature themselves.
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    Re: Stagatory Rape

    I don't get the "Romeo and Juliet" exception--if they're close in age (typically no more than 3 years apart), then it isn't a crime. Look, either it's a crime to have sex with a girl under 18, or it isn't. How is it any less of a crime if the penis belongs to someone between the ages of 21 and 15?
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    Re: Stagatory Rape

    Quote Originally Posted by leeshaforeverr View Post
    What does maturity have to do with it two people who care about eachother and want to be together what should it matter? .................- BUT that person may want someone immature because they may still be immature themselves.
    Let us look at this from a different angle and forget about the immaturity for one second.

    Well, let me give you my 2c on this. Have you ever considered why this law is there? Yes, let us say our Romeo and Juliet (Clive's words), come together. Romeo being 20 and Juliet being 16. Even if the sex between them are consensual it does not mean that the government will give its stamp of approval.

    Laws are there for good reasons. They think a little bit further than just the sex act itself. Have you considered the teenage pregnancies which is a big problem for the government I assume?

    Many teenagers want to have sex so badly, yet they are not prepared to carry the responsibilities if and when they are impregnated. Then all of a sudden they want an abortion to get rid of the "unwanted child". These are things that can be costly for the government, I am not sure about health care in America (I picked up from other threads that it is for free?), but does the government pay for abortions?

    Then there is the emotional factor. Although many believe that they are ready for the act, they are not emotionally strong enough to handle the rejection and guilt that might occur from doing it. Hence like I said in another thread, you get the Romeo and Juliet syndrome - youngsters killing themselves because their g/f or b/f rejected them.

    One just need to look a little deeper.

    Then there is the clear and obvious reason of sick people that rape babies...I am sure you all know by now how I feel about that.
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    Re: Stagatory Rape

    I was a pretty stupid child, i lost my virginity at 12, but seeing as I lost my virginity that young im glad it was with someon who i have known my entire life and it was his first time too. I am still extremely close friends with him, heck i almost married him twice. But no I did realize I wasnt ready but I had already done it but seeing as I have like I said im glad it was with the pwerson it was with rathe than some random person i met at some pary.

    I have a child now, I got pregnant at 14 years old and gave birth at 15. No I wasnt ready, no i didnt plan it, but when you really come down to it, who is ever really truely ready for a child - even planned pregnancies are never 100% ready. I was planned and my parents still told me they had a few problems they had to work out after I was born - and they had already had 2 kids before me...lol. But I was raised that If i do something, i take responsibility for my actions, I almost gave my daughter up for adoption, was going through the process of finding parents but I met this one couple and just LOVED them but realized that I just couldnt do it, I couldnt give my child up for adoption - not because I was raised to take responsibility, but because I just coulndt see myself handing her off as if I didnt love her, I had to let her know that I loved her and wanted her. I was going to give her up because there was NO way I would be able to afford it and her father was really upset that we were going to give her away. When I got pregnant her dad was 18 years old, when she was born, he was 19 and i was 15. I had known him my entire life too. I ended up getting two jobs, faking my hours at each job so that way I could work every day. I hate that I knew I could get them into trouble for how many hours I was working but I had to do it because I needed the money - I wouldnt have let them take the fall for it anyway if it was found out. I was more responsible at 15 than some people are in their 20s I grew up FAST not just because of having a kid, but because of my past - I was raped and molested- i did drugs- i drank. I quit the drugs and drinking shortly before I became/found out i was pregnant.

    Although I wasnt TRUELY ready my first time I was mature enough to handle more than people would like to think anyways. Even at 5 years old my parents would get comments saying that i seemed so much older than I was and the older I got the more comments like that they got, the second that the person who molested me came into my room was the second I grew up. I dont tell people my age too often and after I talk to them for a few days I ask them how old they think I am and alot of people would say that I was about 25, ive been getting that ever since I was 15 years old.

    Everybody seems to think that people under a certain age makes them automatically immature and not ready for anything, and no im not saying everyone is ready, but nobody really KNOWS that person well enough to make that assumption. Aspoestertjie, you can say that about your kids but you cant say that about anyone else but them. Being a certain age doesnt mean anything no matter what you say, you have to really get to know a person before you can say they are or arent ready for something, so just because they are young they are automatically going to have Romeo and Juliet syndrome? Not true, people of ALL ages have romeo and juliet syndrome to be honest with you, I knew a guy who had just lost his wife and in his letter he left he said he couldnt go on without her, he was in his 30s when he did this....People need to stop looking at age for everything, it all comes down to experiences or maturity.... when you make a decision like this. There are immature adults too...where do you think the teens learn how to be so immature most of the time.
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    Re: Stagatory Rape

    Does anyone mind if I edit the title of this thread? Its been bugging me for a few days now.

    Actually, I'm going to go ahead and do it and if anyone complains, I'll restore the original title.
    I typically cite original research papers and reviews that are available only to a personal or institutional subscriptional. If you wish a PDF copy of the papers I cite, send me a request.

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    Re: Statutory Rape

    if its just fixing a spelling mistake i dont care...im horrible at spelling so you will probably seee quite a few misspellings =P
    The truth about forever is forever never comes. The truth about today is that it only last until tomorrow. The truth about tomorrow is that its just another day.
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    Re: Statutory Rape

    So long as we arbitrarily assign different "life stages" to certain ages (for example, adulthood starts at 18) then we will be burdened with arbitrary laws based on age. We all accept that "adults" shouldn't have sex with "children" as a general societal rule - but because of how we define adulthood and childhood, questions like statuatory rape pop up.

    I would prefer, since the reality of arbitrary age limits is not likely to go away, a clear-cut law. Anyone the age of 18 or greater cannot have sex with anyone younger than age 18. Does this mean that Suzy Q. can't boink her boyfriend because his 18th birthday took place two months before hers comes around? Yep.

    I dislike "Romeo and Juliet" clauses, or all those other bendy laws. Why? We have set 18 as a benchmark for adulthood, and once adulthood has been reached there are certain expectations and restrictions. One of those restrictions is "adults shouldn't have sex with children." If you really need sex, there are people over 18 who will be willing to give you a romp. If it's a "true relationship," then it can certainly survive without sex until both partners are of age.

    Of course, we all know how well those age-restriction laws hold up in the real world... certainly no one under 21 drinks alcohol, and no one under 18 smokes cigarettes. So I personally think that age-restriction laws are less effective than other options... but so long as they are what we have, they should be absolute.
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    Re: Stagatory Rape

    Quote Originally Posted by Aspoestertjie View Post
    Let us look at this from a different angle and forget about the immaturity for one second.

    Well, let me give you my 2c on this. Have you ever considered why this law is there? Yes, let us say our Romeo and Juliet (Clive's words), come together. Romeo being 20 and Juliet being 16. Even if the sex between them are consensual it does not mean that the government will give its stamp of approval.
    It does not matter if the government gives its stamp of approval or not. A 20 year old having sex with a 16 year old may or may not be ethical, it depends on the specific case. I would say in most cases there is nothing wrong with this so long as the people involved are consenting and are willing to take responsibility for their actions.

    If the government says otherwise, well the I disagree with them. They have been wrong before. A lot, actually, if you ask me.

    Laws are there for good reasons. They think a little bit further than just the sex act itself. Have you considered the teenage pregnancies which is a big problem for the government I assume?
    You are assuming that the couple are heterosexual, don't practice safe sex, and don't use birth control. You then go on to assume that a teen pregnacy is a big problem for the government. What if the 16 year old and 20 year old want to have kids? They could be married, you know. And what if it's the 20 year old that is the female?

    Many teenagers want to have sex so badly, yet they are not prepared to carry the responsibilities if and when they are impregnated. Then all of a sudden they want an abortion to get rid of the "unwanted child".
    You're now assuming that all teens that get preggers want to get abortions. You like assuming lots of things to try and make your 2 cents stronger, but in this thing called "reality" there are other factors that complicate things. How about you look at it from an objective point of view, without your pretentions and assumtions? Maybe there's nothing wrong with a mature 16 year old and a 20 year old dating and having sex. Maybe there's nothing wrong with a 15 year old dating and having sex with a 28 year old. We need real life details to make an informed, rational judgment on the issue. There are obvious examples of cases that are always going to be wrong, like say a 5 year old and a 75 year old having sex. But teenage years are big time gray areas. Everyone matures biologically, emotionally, and mentally at different levels. Cave men, after all, only lived to be around 20 years old. Which means that a while ago there was a whole lot of teenagers that were preggers, and it was a good thing, so that our species could survive. Once anyone goes through pruberty we know that they are at least biologically ready to have sex and reproduce.

    These are things that can be costly for the government, I am not sure about health care in America (I picked up from other threads that it is for free?), but does the government pay for abortions?
    Go out and rent a movie called Sicko. And I'd stay clear of abortions, that's a red herring, and one that is very emotionally charged.

    Then there is the emotional factor. Although many believe that they are ready for the act, they are not emotionally strong enough to handle the rejection and guilt that might occur from doing it. Hence like I said in another thread, you get the Romeo and Juliet syndrome - youngsters killing themselves because their g/f or b/f rejected them.
    Some people are emotionaly strong enough to handle sex and partnerships younger than others. And it's downright silly for you to even mention that youngsters are killing themselves. Lots of people that kill themselves also drink alcohol, does that mean we should make alcohol illegal?

    One just need to look a little deeper.
    Just like you're doing, right?

    Then there is the clear and obvious reason of sick people that rape babies...I am sure you all know by now how I feel about that.
    ...and what the hell does that have to do with anything? I though we were talking about statutory rape here. Anykind of sex involving a baby is rape and wrong--who's going to debate otherwise?

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    Re: Statutory Rape

    Leesha, I understand that you went through a very tough time in your life, you were forced to grow up very quickly.

    Still, the Government may have good reasons for this law. Not all teenagers are as mature as you are. Not all of them give their babies up for adoption. Many times they use abortion as a means of birth control - which is in my eyes terribly wrong.

    Will someone just care to answer my question? Does the American Government have to pay for abortions? Do you people have free health care?

    It is the Government's job to look after its citizens, young and old. So they have to develop these legislations to protect them. It just makes sense. Sure maturity levels differ from person to person.

    But did you ever thought of those that can not handle the responsibility?

    The very first time I had sex was when I turned 23. And don't get me wrong, I had lots of temptations, lots of gorgeous boyfriends. If and when someone truly loves you, they will wait until you are ready. You know what, it was worth the wait. Why not let children be what they need to be? Just children without the worries of adulthood. All they need to do is be without it for 18 years - that is not difficult.
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    Re: Stagatory Rape

    Quote Originally Posted by Prime Zombie View Post
    It does not matter if the government gives its stamp of approval or not. A 20 year old having sex with a 16 year old may or may not be ethical, it depends on the specific case. I would say in most cases there is nothing wrong with this so long as the people involved are consenting and are willing to take responsibility for their actions.
    PZ - yes if they did take responsibility, but many of them don't. It is sad but true. These laws are there not only to protect the teenager having sex, but the "unwanted" children too.

    If the government says otherwise, well the I disagree with them. They have been wrong before. A lot, actually, if you ask me.
    Then that is your opinion.

    You are assuming that the couple are heterosexual, don't practice safe sex, and don't use birth control. You then go on to assume that a teen pregnacy is a big problem for the government. What if the 16 year old and 20 year old want to have kids? They could be married, you know. And what if it's the 20 year old that is the female?
    Well, as far as my logic tells me, a man can not impregnate a man and a woman can not impregnate a woman, right or wrong? Well, if they want to have kids, then I hope they live happily ever after. Why do you think divorce rates are so high? Why in your opinion is abortion statistics so high?

    You're now assuming that all teens that get preggers want to get abortions. You like assuming lots of things to try and make your 2 cents stronger, but in this thing called "reality" there are other factors that complicate things.
    Not only teenagers but many people actually do get abortions. I just need to read the abortion thread, I don't need to assume it.

    Well, apparently my 2c is worth absolutely nothing, so I rest my case.

    How about you look at it from an objective point of view, without your pretentions and assumtions? Maybe there's nothing wrong with a mature 16 year old and a 20 year old dating and having sex. Maybe there's nothing wrong with a 15 year old dating and having sex with a 28 year old. We need real life details to make an informed, rational judgment on the issue. There are obvious examples of cases that are always going to be wrong, like say a 5 year old and a 75 year old having sex. But teenage years are big time gray areas. Everyone matures biologically, emotionally, and mentally at different levels. Cave men, after all, only lived to be around 20 years old. Which means that a while ago there was a whole lot of teenagers that were preggers, and it was a good thing, so that our species could survive. Once anyone goes through pruberty we know that they are at least biologically ready to have sex and reproduce.
    This is clearly a matter of personal opinion for both of us PZ. You think there is nothing wrong with it, I say there is. We will have to agree to disagree.

    Go out and rent a movie called Sicko. And I'd stay clear of abortions, that's a red herring, and one that is very emotionally charged.
    Exactly how is it a red herring?

    Some people are emotionaly strong enough to handle sex and partnerships younger than others. And it's downright silly for you to even mention that youngsters are killing themselves. Lots of people that kill themselves also drink alcohol, does that mean we should make alcohol illegal?
    Yes, if I could get my wish, I would wish alcohol and drugs off the face of the earth. The misuse of alcohol has ruined many lives before. But once again, that is just my 2c, nothing worth at all.

    Just like you're doing, right?
    Yes right, just like I do.


    ...and what the hell does that have to do with anything? I though we were talking about statutory rape here. Anykind of sex involving a baby is rape and wrong--who's going to debate otherwise?
    There is nobody here that I know that will debate otherwise, yet they think I am crazy for wanting them to be harshly punished. But just ignore what I said.
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    Re: Statutory Rape

    Since ive been gone two friends of mine started dating, one who is 15 the other is 19, if they were to have sex would any of you feel that was Statutory Rape?
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    Re: Statutory Rape

    I hate the term 'Statutory Rape'. Rape is sexual intercourse without consent, and Statutory Rape is sex when permission is given. The word 'rape' shouldn't be used, in my opinion. People hear the word 'rape' and automatically label someone a sex offender, when that may not be the case.

    I am not sure of the law over here, but I think it is something like this: Sex is legal as long as both parties are no more than two years apart in age. But I also this it is illegal for an eighteen year old to have sex with a sixteen year old...hang on, let me check...seems I was partly right:


    It is an offence in Victoria to sexually penetrate a person under the age of 16. However it is a defence if the younger party was aged 10 years or older and the offender was not more than 2 years older than the younger party. Further it is an offence for a person to sexually penetrate a person under the age of 18 if that person is under the care of the offender (guardian, teacher etc).
    This is the law for the State of Victoria, which is the State in which I live. The laws in each State of Australia are basically identical.
    So you can see, it is legal to have sex with someone who is no more than two years older or younger than yourself.

    I suppose this means that someone under the age of eighteen would find themselves facing charges if they had sex with a fourteen year old, for example.

    I think the law is there for a reason, but sometimes I think it should be waived. There are some teenagers out there who have had sex with their boyfriends, and while it is legally a crime, they are in love, and happy. I hardly see it a crime to be in love.

    I also don't like the idea of the Government telling when I am able to make my own decisions regarding my sex life. I like to think that I myself will know when I am ready - although I am twenty four - but if I were younger, I would have liked to have had that choice. No one knows when someone is ready to have sex, only the individual themselves.
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    Re: Statutory Rape

    I know, the whole Statutory "rape" thing is a bunch of bull I think, I mean if both parties consent to it, why should the older person go to jail just because the person is younger than them?
    The truth about forever is forever never comes. The truth about today is that it only last until tomorrow. The truth about tomorrow is that its just another day.
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    Re: Statutory Rape

    Quote Originally Posted by leeshaforeverr View Post
    I know, the whole Statutory "rape" thing is a bunch of bull I think, I mean if both parties consent to it, why should the older person go to jail just because the person is younger than them?
    I would say it does depend on how big the age difference is. If the two people are five or more years apart in age, then it shouldn't be legal.

    What angers me though, is that when someone is charged with Statutory Rape, they are placed on the sex offenders list. This gives the impression that the person is sexual predator, someone to be fearful, which is not the case at all.
    Many people on the sex offenders register are guilty of nothing more than consensual sex with a girlfriend/boyfriend.
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    Re: Statutory Rape

    Yeah, I feel within 5 or 6 years as well, but I guess it really depends on the person(s) in question, how mature is the minor or how immature is the adult? I see it as more of a maturity thing than an age thing really.
    The truth about forever is forever never comes. The truth about today is that it only last until tomorrow. The truth about tomorrow is that its just another day.
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    Re: Statutory Rape

    Quote Originally Posted by leeshaforeverr View Post
    Yeah, I feel within 5 or 6 years as well, but I guess it really depends on the person(s) in question, how mature is the minor or how immature is the adult? I see it as more of a maturity thing than an age thing really.
    Exactly. Who is to say a fifteen year old is not mature enough to have sex when she may be more mature than the eighteen year old who is of legal age?
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