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  1. #1
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    Puppy-Throwing Video Makes Marine a Figure of Hate

    I'm sure some of you have seen this video.
    It was on YouTube for two days before being taken off that site this morning.
    150,000 people watched the video in less than two days.

    The low-quality video shows two Marines in Iraq, joking as one holds a black and white puppy by the scruff of the neck, which he then hurls into a rocky gully.
    A loud, yelping sound is heard as the puppy flies through the air.

    Major Chris Perrine of the Marine Corps Base Hawaii, says that it appears the man in the video, a 22 year-old Lance Corporal, named David Motari, is based with a unit in the islands.

    In an official statement, the Marines called the video "shocking and deplorable", and said that it violates "the high standard we expect of every Marine".
    The statement also added that "We do not tolerate this type of behavior, and will take appropriate action".

    The video was shown to veterinarians at Washington State University, but they could not confirm whether it was genuine or not.

    However, Dr. Matt Mickas, chief of Community Practice Services at the university's veterinary college, said that the video did not appear fake to him because of the way the animal went slack by being held from the neck".
    Dr. Mickas also said that the yelping noise on the clip sounded like a puppy in distress.
    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle3481977.ece

    Here is the video clip as it was shown on YouTube
    http://www.PuppyToss.com


    If this clip is authentic, this is one of the most despicable acts of blatant cruelty I have ever witnessed.

    My father was a U.S. Marine, and proud of it....
    Dad has passed away, but he would have been so angry about this video.

    If this clip is real, what do you think should be done to penalize this man?
    I think that a jail sentence and a dishonorable discharge would be appropriate, to start with....
    Last edited by Scarlett44; March 6th, 2008 at 07:12 AM.
    "As long as I have a voice, I will speak for those who have none".

  2. #2
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    Re: Puppy-Throwing Video Makes Marine a Figure of Hate

    Well, it looks real enough to me (but I'm no expert on videography and effects). I certainly hope it's fake, not only for that puppy (which is most important) but also for the reputation of the US Military. If it is real, the guy deserves a serious ass beating and disciplinary action for conduct unbecoming a Marine.

    And whether or not this particular instance is real or not, it has brought attention to other very real, very inappropriate acts of cruelty by US servicemen. I found a post that linked these, from the Digg site:

    Very disturbing stuff (everything below is 100% copy/paste):

    http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=a4b_1198349822
    soldiers blow up another dog, find it funny
    http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=1be_1204379225&p=1
    Here is a bbc docu. where a soldier kills a dog, a longer version exist, shows the dogs owner coming out visibly upset, nothing he can do, he has a heavily armed invading army in his backyard.
    http://youtube.com/watch?v=wj32twJXxsY&
    Soldiers, tormenting a dog...
    http://youtube.com/watch?v=Fy_BSksdvAM
    Soldiers shoot another dog
    http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=54e_1182844511
    Soldiers throw grenade at sheepherder/sheep and find it funny
    http://youtube.com/watch?v=ULcj-Epr1rI&
    Soldier shoots yet another dog
    http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=0a5ee2d6eb
    killing civilians in front of their children
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSTI3Ast45Q
    scaring an injured puppy repeatedly
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YK2BTt9_YJk
    blowing up a kitten and cheering
    http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=64d_1199566522&p=1
    David Motari's bebo/myspace, the bebo contains photo galleries
    http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=us ...
    http://www.bebo.com/Profile.jsp?MemberId=304273890 ...
    David Motari's sister Ashley bebo/myspace
    http://www.bebo.com/Profile.jsp?MemberId=260207938 ...
    http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=us ...
    David Motari's brother Nolan, has similar picture to David's myspace profile
    http://www.bebo.com/Profile.jsp?MemberId=375708967 ...
    http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=us ...
    David Motari's sister Kathleen
    http://www.bebo.com/Profile.jsp?MemberId=248351841
    Last but not least....
    David Motari's super gay riced out civic, note license plate number Hawaii NXE-978
    http://file026b.bebo.com/7/large/2007/01/03/05/304 ...
    Splashing kids with a hummer
    http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=727_1204139441
    Shooting unarmed civilians then celebrating
    http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=7b6_1204052769
    Teasing kids with water
    http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=11bf57cf1f
    Soldier talking about wanting to kill Iraqi children/families, he's out of his mind
    http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=aea_1200639693
    Soldier messing up civilians house for fun
    http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=8be_1204072976
    Soldier being a dick to Iraqi police
    http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=e0b_1203423672
    Having kids chant "I love pork!"
    http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=43e_1201330416
    Soldier throwing a child off of a bridge
    http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=1bf_1204382002
    -=]Apokalupsis[=-
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  3. #3
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    Re: Puppy-Throwing Video Makes Marine a Figure of Hate

    Apok,
    I haven't looked at all of them, but those are just unbelievable.
    Horrible....

    Are these soldiers mentally ill?
    How else would they be capable of doing these things....?
    I did not realize the extent of the problem.

    This is truly upsetting.
    Last edited by Scarlett44; March 5th, 2008 at 03:23 PM.
    "As long as I have a voice, I will speak for those who have none".

  4. #4
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    Re: Puppy-Throwing Video Makes Marine a Figure of Hate

    No one ever said the military was filled with the best of the best.

    There are many people out there who are Marines who do not deserve to be called Marines. They make real Marines look bad, and disgrace the Marine Corps.

    The Marine Corps is one institution in the US that really cracks down on its people, especially its leadership.

    I hope they crack down on this Marine, demote him to Private, and hope he leaves. His actions make me sick, probably in the bottom 15% of his class.
    Witty puns...

  5. #5
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    Re: Puppy-Throwing Video Makes Marine a Figure of Hate

    While I am in no way condoning the act. I wonder if the war makes some so depraved they don't see what they are doing as wrong.
    "The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts." ~Bertrand Russell

  6. #6
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    Re: Puppy-Throwing Video Makes Marine a Figure of Hate

    Quote Originally Posted by Jamie View Post
    While I am in no way condoning the act. I wonder if the war makes some so depraved they don't see what they are doing as wrong.
    I will not spend much capital in defending this soldier, but I do think that there are sometimes, when even decent people have some moments of profound stupidity and those can occur when you are brought into an environment extreme enough to confuse your moral compass.

    Add to that the bravado of friends and a video camera and you have the ingredients for much stupid behaviour.
    A good hockey player plays where the puck is. A great hockey player plays where the puck is going to be.
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  7. #7
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    Re: Puppy-Throwing Video Makes Marine a Figure of Hate

    I won't watch it. Just won't. I like animals more than I do most people.

    Punishment? Sling his ass into the same gully and see how he likes it. If he can climb out, then he's free to get home the best way he can, sans any support from the military.

    I deplore animal violence. It's simply another form of bullying.

    People can talk all they like about the separation of man and animals, but I just don't find it to be true. We're animals with choices. Every time.
    But if you do not find an intelligent companion, a wise and well-behaved person going the same way as yourself, then go on your way alone, like a king abandoning a conquered kingdom, or like a great elephant in the deep forest. - Buddha

  8. #8
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    Re: Puppy-Throwing Video Makes Marine a Figure of Hate

    If I may add a small piece of insight (not a justification). Iraq is full of hundreds of thousands of stray mangy dogs. They get quite annoying and often it is tempting for young soldiers with lots of time on their hands to take out their stress in these kinds of manner. I certainly don't agree with their actions at all, but I do understand how it came about.
    "Suffering lies not with inequality, but with dependence." -Voltaire
    "Fallacies do not cease to be fallacies because they become fashions. -G.K. Chesterton
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  9. #9
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    Re: Puppy-Throwing Video Makes Marine a Figure of Hate

    I'm sitting here looking at a portion of our cats. (We've added a few since I last talked about them, and let me tell you, Trinity is a total BAD KITTY!)

    I just don't understand it. I could see shooting one that was injured. I could see shooting one that was threatening you. I can't see the willful and malicious mistreatment of one. Hell, I can't even watch Animal Police.

    Yeah, I really am that tender hearted, and I was raised on a farm. You kill to eat, not for enjoyment...
    But if you do not find an intelligent companion, a wise and well-behaved person going the same way as yourself, then go on your way alone, like a king abandoning a conquered kingdom, or like a great elephant in the deep forest. - Buddha

  10. #10
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    Re: Puppy-Throwing Video Makes Marine a Figure of Hate

    I watched it, and it really makes me want to toss that guy like he tossed the puppy. If I was strong enough, I would have done it without thinking twice.

    There must be something seriously wrong with someone doing things like that.
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  11. #11
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    Re: Puppy-Throwing Video Makes Marine a Figure of Hate

    I think he should have to wear a T-shirt, everyday for at least 30 years that says "I'm that marine that tossed the puppy"
    It makes me ill...All random violence makes me just ill.

  12. #12
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    Re: Puppy-Throwing Video Makes Marine a Figure of Hate

    I can't watch the video. I can't watch all the ones Apok posted either. I still have flashbacks to the video of the beheading I watched a few years ago. I don't think I could stomach watching such cruelty anymore.

    However, to say something along the lines of what Squatch has said, what if we were looking at a video of someone torturing a rat or a chicken? Would we react with the same emotion? I don't think we would.

    And last I checked, most of the people in this thread eat a tasty steak now and then not even giving a thought to the cow who had it's head sliced off for us.

    Don't get me wrong, I love dogs as much as any dog-lover. And I love a tasty steak as much as any steak-lover. But I don't know that we should be so quick to judge this marine to the extent of having him demoted. War does crazy things to people. It is possible the marines in this instance are viewing the dog with the same value we would typically view...a rat...or a chicken. Who is to say he is wrong for placing that same value on the dog as we place on a rodent?
    Souls of the animal kingdom: eagle, fox, bottle-nose dolphin, octopus, house cat. Okay, let's jump this jump. -- Rod Kimble

  13. #13
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    Re: Puppy-Throwing Video Makes Marine a Figure of Hate

    Quote Originally Posted by DevilPup John View Post
    No one ever said the military was filled with the best of the best.

    There are many people out there who are Marines who do not deserve to be called Marines. They make real Marines look bad, and disgrace the Marine Corps.

    The Marine Corps is one institution in the US that really cracks down on its people, especially its leadership.

    I hope they crack down on this Marine, demote him to Private, and hope he leaves. His actions make me sick, probably in the bottom 15% of his class.
    A problem with the military is that it suffers from adverse selection. Basically, given the nature of the military (death and destruction largely without consequences), men who wish to engage in such death and destruction will be more likely to enter the military than men who do not. David Motari is an example of adverse selection in the military.

  14. #14
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    Re: Puppy-Throwing Video Makes Marine a Figure of Hate

    Quote Originally Posted by HappyLady View Post
    what if we were looking at a video of someone torturing a rat or a chicken? Would we react with the same emotion? I don't think we would.
    I would react with the same feelings, no matter what species of animal was being tortured.

    I can't speak for everyone, but IMO, it is wrong to inflict unnecessary suffering, on any living creature that feels pain.
    In my view, it is wrong to intentionally inflict unnecessary pain on any species-dogs, cats,
    rats, chickens, cows, and pigs included.

    Quote Originally Posted by HappyLady
    And last I checked, most of the people in this thread eat a tasty steak now and then....
    I am a vegetarian, in opposition to the inhumane factory farming industry.

    Quote Originally Posted by HappyLady
    War does crazy things to people. It is possible the marines in this instance are viewing the dog with the same value we would typically view...a rat...or a chicken. Who is to say he is wrong for placing that same value on the dog as we place on a rodent?
    I agree that the combat zone does not really contribute postively to someone's mental health.
    However, it has been proven that people who start out torturing animals, will probably move up the ladder eventually, and start torturing human beings.
    "As long as I have a voice, I will speak for those who have none".

  15. #15
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    Re: Puppy-Throwing Video Makes Marine a Figure of Hate

    War can mutate even normally decent people. Faced with the stress of daily violence and combat, soldiers are known to commit atrocities not just to animals, but to innocent fellow human beings.
    Trendem

  16. #16
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    Re: Puppy-Throwing Video Makes Marine a Figure of Hate

    I recall running into an old high-school friend who had just gotten out of the army. He told me it was part of their training to kill rabbits. And to me, that made a lot of sense. These soldiers are suppose to be able to kill humans when they are needed to so they have to get past the natural aversion to killing and killing animals is a good way to do it. (I suppose Squatch will know if this is accurate or not - I'm just going by what someone told me).

    A killer is supposed to be able to take life which would assume that he might not have as profound an aversion to killing things as the average person would.

    I see no reason nor excuse for killing a puppy for no good reason, but I'm not so sure that this kind of behavior is inexplicable.

  17. #17
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    Re: Puppy-Throwing Video Makes Marine a Figure of Hate

    Quote Originally Posted by mican333 View Post
    These soldiers are suppose to be able to kill humans when they are needed to so they have to get past the natural aversion to killing and killing animals is a good way to do it.
    Killing and torturing are two quite different things.

    Killing of humans or animals, is sometimes necessary.
    Intentionally torturing humans or animals, is NEVER necessary.

    It is done for sadistic enjoyment.... Period.
    "As long as I have a voice, I will speak for those who have none".

  18. #18
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    Re: Puppy-Throwing Video Makes Marine a Figure of Hate

    Quote Originally Posted by Slipnish View Post
    Yeah, I really am that tender hearted, and I was raised on a farm. You kill to eat, not for enjoyment...
    That's interesting you say that. My grandfather grew up on a farm, he was hardcore to animals. To him, they are just things that are owned. They are either beneficial or they are not. There was zero emotional attachment. He told us of a story one time, when tomcats kept coming around and disturbing the chickens. So he (possibly "they", I cannot recall), took the 2 tomcats, tied some sort of rope around them, then hung them over a clothesline or something and let them fight it out. Brutal. Granted, this was when he was much younger.

    Me, being an animal love, not growing up on the farm, and respecting my grandfather (highly successful doctor and patriarch of the family), I was in absolute shock. It was a tough image to get out of my head.

    To his defense, he owned and love dogs and a cat later in life.

    I tell this story to just show a different side of "farm life" and their value of animals.
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  19. #19
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    Re: Puppy-Throwing Video Makes Marine a Figure of Hate

    Quote Originally Posted by HappyLady View Post
    I can't watch the video. I can't watch all the ones Apok posted either. I still have flashbacks to the video of the beheading I watched a few years ago. I don't think I could stomach watching such cruelty anymore.

    However, to say something along the lines of what Squatch has said, what if we were looking at a video of someone torturing a rat or a chicken? Would we react with the same emotion? I don't think we would.

    And last I checked, most of the people in this thread eat a tasty steak now and then not even giving a thought to the cow who had it's head sliced off for us.

    Don't get me wrong, I love dogs as much as any dog-lover. And I love a tasty steak as much as any steak-lover. But I don't know that we should be so quick to judge this marine to the extent of having him demoted. War does crazy things to people. It is possible the marines in this instance are viewing the dog with the same value we would typically view...a rat...or a chicken. Who is to say he is wrong for placing that same value on the dog as we place on a rodent?
    Then it was still a highly irresponsible and immoral thing to do because he filmed it, joked about the act and the death of an animal that most western societies value and place legal rights on. If he didn't break any laws in that country, conducted himself inappropriately. He knew the reaction that people would have from his act. In fact, he's intentionally playing on that reaction as evidence by his words before he throws the puppy.
    -=]Apokalupsis[=-
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  20. #20
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    Re: Puppy-Throwing Video Makes Marine a Figure of Hate

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarlett44 View Post
    Killing and torturing are two quite different things.

    Killing of humans or animals, is sometimes necessary.
    Intentionally torturing humans or animals, is NEVER necessary.

    It is done for sadistic enjoyment.... Period.
    But then he didn't torture the puppy, he
    just killed it (and rather quickly - took only a few seconds).

    But since there is no apparent need to kill it, it was apparently done soley for enjoyment (I doubt he was given an order to kill it).

    And my point isn't whether it's right or wrong (that issue is rather obvious), but that many soldiers are trained to kill and it seems rather oxymoronic to train to kill and also retain the respect for life you had before you were trained to kill. I'm not saying you can't have both killing skills and a respect for life, but obtaining the ability to kill should, on average, lessen one's qualms about taking lives - human or animal.

 

 
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