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Thread: Prove you exist

  1. #321
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    Re: Prove you exist

    Quote Originally Posted by Deva View Post
    Prove that you exist?

    Why? Why is it necessary for me to prove I 'exist' whatever definition it may be. I'm alive and kicking and i have free will within the dimension of this universe (if it makes sense) and the dimension gives me ability to move, interact breathe, think and feel.

    I don't have to prove that i exist on some level to prove that 'existance' of god is a myth.
    First, I think the point of the question is that if you can't demonstrate your own existence in a satisfactory way, then why should it trouble me that God's existence can't be demonstrated in a satisfactory way?

    Second, how do you know that what you think you experience is real? If you're willing to accept that it is without sufficient proof, then aren't you engaging in faith?
    If I am capable of grasping God objectively, I do not believe, but precisely because I cannot do this I must believe. - Soren Kierkegaard
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  2. #322
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    Re: Prove you exist

    Quote Originally Posted by CliveStaples View Post
    First, I think the point of the question is that if you can't demonstrate your own existence in a satisfactory way, then why should it trouble me that God's existence can't be demonstrated in a satisfactory way?

    Second, how do you know that what you think you experience is real? If you're willing to accept that it is without sufficient proof, then aren't you engaging in faith?
    You, me, animals all exist on the same 'level'. The whole concept of 'real' and 'unreal' is religious to begin with. Why can't you believe that since there are metabolic activities in what you call your body, you are operating. You in fact are making a difference somewhere, even if you are not ready to face the fact that it is definable.

    The point is, all humans exist on SOME level. But you can't prove god exists on this same level. Żou can't even prove there is another level.

    That's why the arguement has credit when you can't prove God exists.
    Last edited by Deva; March 20th, 2011 at 12:40 AM.
    How could you argue with me?
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  3. #323
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    Re: Prove you exist

    Quote Originally Posted by Deva View Post
    You, me, animals all exist on the same 'level'. The whole concept of 'real' and 'unreal' is religious to begin with.
    Wait, the notion of "existence" and "non-existence" is religious in character? The atheists will be shocked to hear that.

    Why can't you believe that since there are metabolic activities in what you call your body, you are operating. You in fact are making a difference somewhere, even if you are not ready to face the fact that it is definable.
    I don't understand what your point is, here. I'm "not ready to face the fact" that the difference I'm making is definable? I've never challenged (or even addressed) the definability of the difference I'm making. You're really coming out of left field with this one.

    The point is, all humans exist on SOME level. But you can't prove god exists on this same level. Żou can't even prove there is another level.

    That's why the arguement has credit when you can't prove God exists.
    You can't even prove that you, a human, are on the same level of existence as me. If you want me to accept that you have real existence, even in the absence of a convincing proof that you do, how can you criticize me for accepting (without convincing proof) that there are other levels of existence?

    Do rocks and humans exist on the same level? I'm not sure what a "level" of existence is. It seems to me that something either exists, or it doesn't. Whether or not it happens to exhibit a physical presence is a different question. God exists in the same way that we do insofar as He has "being", just as we have "being".
    If I am capable of grasping God objectively, I do not believe, but precisely because I cannot do this I must believe. - Soren Kierkegaard
    **** you, I won't do what you tell me

    HOLY CRAP MY BLOG IS AWESOME

  4. #324
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    Re: Prove you exist

    Quote Originally Posted by CliveStaples View Post
    Wait, the notion of "existence" and "non-existence" is religious in character? The atheists will be shocked to hear that.
    How did you turn unreal into non-existance?

    I think the atheists will actually understand what I meant. How can you just dismiss this whole (Urghh.. since the word 'existance' is off the table i have to make do with terms that partially fit the definition) world in which we are present.
    That's why it is religious. Evidence is not enough.

    There are laws of science binding us. There is limit to our bodies. We die. We are born. Why isn't this real enough for you?


    Quote Originally Posted by CliveStaples
    Second, how do you know that what you think you experience is real? If you're willing to accept that it is without sufficient proof, then aren't you engaging in faith?
    Again with the real. Are you looking for a truth above all the truths because what is right in front of your face doesn't satisfy you about how things should have been?

    Quote Originally Posted by CliveStaples
    I'm not sure what a "level" of existence is.
    You tell me, since you believe that some things are randomly unreal.

    PS - I'm sorry if my posts seems to be rude. I don't mean it to be that way. (look at my profil pic )
    Last edited by Deva; March 20th, 2011 at 07:16 PM.
    How could you argue with me?
    Look at my face, it is yellow, round and has a big smile on it! :-)

  5. #325

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    Re: Prove you exist

    I wonder if pain exists.

    Stimulating nerves without actually damaging flesh and tissue. Merely sodium and potassium and calcium traveling across the synapse gap. The sensation of agony. Phantom limbs, does the arm exist? It clearly is there and in pain, yet not there.

    This is a silly thread.

  6. #326
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    Re: Prove you exist

    Define existance/exist

    Explain how we could not exist. Even if we are only just imagination, we still exist as that imagination.
    Those who do not respond to reason can not be conquered by it.

  7. #327
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    Re: Prove you exist

    Quote Originally Posted by princefigs View Post
    I want you to prove you exist.


    I want you to definitively prove that you really exist. Also, I want you to state what it would take to prove or disprove that you really exist.
    Based on the evidence found in this quote, I can determine that I must indeed exist, for you confirm my existence in your sentences.

    You are instructing someone to do something, and, since you are operating on a forum, your obvious intent is for that someone to respond.

    If you intend for that person, myself, to respond, then you must also therefore imply that I exist, because one must exist in order to respond.

    Basically, I exist simply because you told me to explain how I exist, and I responded.

    Thank you for solving my philosophical issue regarding proof of my own existence!
    "Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools talk because they have to say something."-Plato

  8. #328
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    Re: Prove you exist

    I am not a philosopher at all. So If I wondered about my existance, would have to do something concrete. Like, maybe run full speed into a brick wall?

    If the pain is only imagined, something has to be imagining it. No?

    Others would know I exist because they would hear me curse in both official languages. If, they were only imagining hearing it, then something has to be doing that, no?

  9. #329
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    Re: Prove you exist

    Quote Originally Posted by CliveStaples View Post
    First, I think the point of the question is that if you can't demonstrate your own existence in a satisfactory way, then why should it trouble me that God's existence can't be demonstrated in a satisfactory way?
    You ask me to prove my existence and I respond with this post. Give me your email address and I'll email you. Give me your home address and I could even pay you a personal visit.

    I ask god to prove his existence and I get . . . nothing. No post, no email, and certainly no personal visit. Nada.

    I don't see the equivalency in these two situations that some theists seem to see.

    The mere fact that I post a response to you when you ask whether I exist is evidence that I (the thing that sent this response) exists!

    Where is the post from God when I ask him whether he exists?


    Second, how do you know that what you think you experience is real? If you're willing to accept that it is without sufficient proof, then aren't you engaging in faith?
    I think you're probably confusing "experience" with "interpretation of experience."

    Experience itself is self-evident. Any experience anyone has is "real" experience. The problem is not in believing that something like a dream is a real experience; it's in confusing a dream experience for a non-dream experience.

  10. #330
    ZORGON
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    Re: Prove you exist

    Prove i do not exist

  11. #331
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    Re: Prove you exist

    holy mother of ignorance.....

    well i dare say the 5 senses prove tangibility, now, if people don't exist (that includes you kiddo), then your question or statement or whatever is invalid, because you simply don't exist, now, i will say, that you haven't shown me any proof that you exist, so ill just safely walk away saying that you are a figment of my imagination, and ill continue to eat my fig newton

    by the way what you are thinking of is called solipsism, aka everything exists except yourself, dare i ask if you invented god to make life more interesting for yourself? because life would be boring otherwise, and dare i also say that you also imagined a bunch of people into this confined space called earth to argue with us so that you can feel superior for believing in something that you imagined up all by yourself that others don't. sounds a little far fetched don't it.

    ok ok i lied, i actually imagined you up so that you would attempt to shatter my very foundations of beliefs, because otherwise it would just be another Wednesday morning, and i wasn't clever enough to make my cat a talking cat so it had to be an actual person, and it couldn't be in real life because there's already a crazy preacherman right next door, hes a nice guy but one is enough so it had to be the internetz.
    Last edited by Vale; March 29th, 2011 at 10:52 PM. Reason: followup

  12. #332
    thenix88
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    Re: Prove you exist

    Well, I just finished reading this entire thread, which caused me to register for these forums.

    I must say I was looking forward to any response to Horse by pf. Extremely disappointed that pf could not see through his own fallacies.

    Horse proved absolutely that something exists, which pf could not refute. Additionally, pf could not (possibly) refute Horse's claim that he absolutely exists, especially considering the frame of reference.

    I saw some excellent arguments being put forth in this thread, and it challenged my thought process and stretched my mind. All in all, a most intellectually stimulating mental exercise with a disappointing conclusion.


    thenix88

  13. #333
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    Re: Prove you exist

    How can you have a debate with someone on whether not they exist or not if it is a given that the person you are debating with exists?
    Those who do not respond to reason can not be conquered by it.

  14. #334
    Enkidu
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    Thumbs down Re: Prove you exist

    Fine and good; Why should it matter that you can prove anything??
    You or I cannot prove that is not our function and certianly threw the messages none can truely state something as signifigant as that evidence threw mere words which are only meant to de-rail a more complete thinking outside the narrowness of languistic limitations and frailty.

  15. #335
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    Re: Prove you exist

    Well I think pf original statement was proven no one can prove that they exist and no one can prove that they don't exist. I believe that is what the original idea was... no one can prove that god exist but no one can prove that god does not exist either. Has anybody ever thought that we might just be gods version of sims.

  16. #336
    gameovr92
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    Re: Prove you exist

    This is actually quite simple. You will never be able to know that I exist. To you, I'll always be letters on a forum thread. Even if we met face to face, I'd just be another object on the other end of your eyes, but the fact that you perceive me, no matter how skewed it is from what someone else sees, or what I see, proves that you exist. A human being can never be absolutely certain about anything except his own existence, because he has the ability to perceive his surroundings, even if he perceives them incorrectly. Cogito, ergo, sum. I think, therefore I am. The one universal truth in this world.

  17. #337
    AnneAndCat
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    Re: Prove you exist

    proving I exist well that's a hard one....

  18. #338
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    Re: Prove you exist

    Quote Originally Posted by AnneAndCat View Post
    proving I exist well that's a hard one....
    Perhaps the best argument for existence is that we question existence.
    "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." - Anais Nin.
    Emitte lucem et veritatem - Send out light and truth.
    'Fere libenter homines id quod volunt credunt' - Julius Caesar (rough translation, 'Men will think what they want to think')
    Kill my boss? Do I dare live out the American dream? - Homer Simpson.

  19. #339
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    Re: Prove you exist

    Quote Originally Posted by FruitandNut View Post
    Perhaps the best argument for existence is that we question existence.
    That just sounds like some feel good wording that lacks real substance. Questioning existence does nothing to "prove" ones existence with respect to the OP.
    I will no longer be replying to any post from a Liberal going forward. I will continue, as normal, to discuss topics and engage in intellectual exchanges with non-leftist

  20. #340
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    Quote Originally Posted by Someguy View Post
    That just sounds like some feel good wording that lacks real substance. Questioning existence does nothing to "prove" ones existence with respect to the OP.
    On the contrary.

    It is this simple, you cannot both (E) exist and (-E) not exist. E implies not -E and -E implies not E Rather than try to prove you exist, (A) attempt to prove you do not exist. Ask yourself the question, "can something that does not exist (A) attempt to prove it does not exist?" Your attempt to prove you do not exist, demonstrates that you DO NOT not exist (or not -E which is equivalent to E. So You Do Exist! If E, then not -E, If A, then not -E, If not -E, then E, so, If A, then E.

 

 
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