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Thread: All equal?

  1. #1
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    All equal?

    I have seen mican333 advocate the theory that everyone is equal....do you believe this?

    Why or why not?

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    Re: All equal?

    Quote Originally Posted by princefigs View Post
    I have seen mican333 advocate the theory that everyone is equal....do you believe this?

    Why or why not?
    Well, you have to define "equal" and in what context it is used. Obviously we are all also "different" in many, many ways.

    In the context that I used the word, I meant "equal" as in no one is so superior to anyone else that it justifies any man having the right to dictate to anyone else how they need to live their lives.

    If God exists and came to Earth and said "this is what you must do", then we could all say "yep, we must do that". But I don't consider any human being so superior to me (or anyone) that he has the inherent authority to tell me how to live my life.

    And thus what I call "because I said so" laws, where people are forced to live by the opinions of people who are not inherently better than them (as no one is inherently better) are invalid.

    I have just as much right to force you to live as want you to as you have the right to force me to live as you want me to. And that is a right that neither of us have.

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    Re: All equal?

    Thank God this decision was made for me on July 4th, 1776. I didn't even have to think about it...amazing!

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    Re: All equal?

    Well, you have to define "equal" and in what context it is used. Obviously we are all also "different" in many, many ways.

    In the context that I used the word, I meant "equal" as in no one is so superior to anyone else that it justifies any man having the right to dictate to anyone else how they need to live their lives.

    If God exists and came to Earth and said "this is what you must do", then we could all say "yep, we must do that". But I don't consider any human being so superior to me (or anyone) that he has the inherent authority to tell me how to live my life.

    And thus what I call "because I said so" laws, where people are forced to live by the opinions of people who are not inherently better than them (as no one is inherently better) are invalid.

    I have just as much right to force you to live as want you to as you have the right to force me to live as you want me to. And that is a right that neither of us have.
    Rights are a human-created concept and therefore subject to things like definition and culture.

    A group of people might consider all human beings to be "equal," and it probably is correct in that it is consistent with the pre-assumptions that lead to the concept of human rights, but such a concept isn't natural. Humans made it so.

    If a human found a way to attain immortality, then became the ruler of the earth, but was an extremely wise ruler whose reign was satisfactory by the standards of each and every other human on earth. All loves him and grants him absolute dictation over all things that happen, and he continue to rule benevolently until forever.

    In such a situation, would you say all humans are equal? Of course, you might say that he is no longer human, but then it would depend on the definition of human.

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    Re: All equal?

    Equality is impossible to achieve among people.

    Why?

    Equality means "you" and "I" are on the same level.

    We most certainly are not.

    Lets say for example...

    I am fit, and can pass Marine PFT easily.

    However, I suck at math.

    People are not equal to me in the sense of fitness, and I am not equal to many in the sense of math.

    Equality is impossible to achieve.

    fairness, justice; these are the words I think people are looking for when they say "equality".
    Witty puns...

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    Re: All equal?

    God created all men. Samuel Colt made them equal.

    I suppose we all have equal opportunity to make something of ourselves. For every horrible example of an underprivilidged kid who doesn't make it out, some do.

    At the risk of sounding like a bigot, and having a nurse ask me if I could help her tie up a rope ladder so she could escape from her office in case someone came in the building and started "shooting up the place," and reminding her that the windows in our building don't open, and there is no place to tie such a thing too...

    Honestly, we are all created equal, but some of us seem to have a better understanding of reality...
    But if you do not find an intelligent companion, a wise and well-behaved person going the same way as yourself, then go on your way alone, like a king abandoning a conquered kingdom, or like a great elephant in the deep forest. - Buddha

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    Re: All equal?

    Quote Originally Posted by JINGObc View Post
    Thank God this decision was made for me on July 4th, 1776. I didn't even have to think about it...amazing!
    The question is not were we created equal, it is are we still equal....

    I understand you are new to ODN, so welcome, read the rules and follow the high standards that we have here....your post was not an example of high quality and substantive in nature.

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    Re: All equal?

    Quote Originally Posted by FDEL View Post
    If a human found a way to attain immortality, then became the ruler of the earth, but was an extremely wise ruler whose reign was satisfactory by the standards of each and every other human on earth. All loves him and grants him absolute dictation over all things that happen, and he continue to rule benevolently until forever.

    In such a situation, would you say all humans are equal? Of course, you might say that he is no longer human, but then it would depend on the definition of human.
    First off, if a human attained immortality, it's not a guarantee that he would become better than us all. Perhaps his darker side would feast on power and he would become another Hitler.

    But to go with your hypothetical (and I will have to consider him human for this hypothetical to be relevant), I would still consider him an equal. If he is really smart and wise and his proposals for changes in how we lived our lives were very good proposals, then I would accept his proposed changes on the merits of the proposals themselves and if his proposals sucked, I would reject them on their lack of merit.

    But I would not accept what he says just because he said it.

    And if other people worship him as some kind of God, that's their problem. I recall Michael Jackson at the peak of his popularity receiving almost deific adulation from some.

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    Re: All equal?

    Quote Originally Posted by DevilPup John View Post
    Equality is impossible to achieve among people.

    Why?

    Equality means "you" and "I" are on the same level.

    We most certainly are not.

    Lets say for example...

    I am fit, and can pass Marine PFT easily.

    However, I suck at math.
    So do either of those mean that you have more or less of a right to exist than anyone else on this planet?

    If not, then you and everyone else are equal (in the context that I was using equal).

    Yes, there are differences between everyone, but if none of those difference inherently life one person to the status where he has more of a right to exist, then the difference are not relevant.

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    Re: All equal?

    Quote Originally Posted by princefigs View Post
    The question is not were we created equal, it is are we still equal....

    I understand you are new to ODN, so welcome, read the rules and follow the high standards that we have here....your post was not an example of high quality and substantive in nature.
    I disagree. I'm not saying it's the best post ever, but it was a very relevant response to the point I am making.

    I see no difference in when we are created and what we are now that elevates one person above another in the context of rights.

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    Re: All equal?

    I see a radical difference. Being created equal does not mean we are all still equal. I am not equal to a murderous, child rapist...are you? of course not.

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    Re: All equal?

    Quote Originally Posted by princefigs View Post
    I see a radical difference. Being created equal does not mean we are all still equal. I am not equal to a murderous, child rapist...are you? of course not.
    No. But then the action of committing a crime would carry the same penalty no matter which one of us committed it (or should in principle). Why? Because we are equal.

    We are EQUALLY beholden to the law for our actions and equally punishable for breaking the law.

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    Re: All equal?

    If we are equally bound to the law, that still does not make us all equal. We are all equally bound to breathing air...we are all equally bound to a lot of rules that are shared with animals and the like....do you contend that we are equal to rodents as well? That would seem to be were your logic leads us to.

    Besides, we are not all equally beholden to the law, past occurances of illegal activities make it so that one is more bound to punishments that someone that has not committed any crimes at all. For instance, 3 strikes you are out law. If you commit three major felonies, you get a life sentence, automatically. Where as other person that commits that very same crime, may only get 10 years.

    Point is, the actions that we take, make us now equal or less equal to our peers...with that, everyone CANNOT be equal.

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    Re: All equal?

    Quote Originally Posted by princefigs View Post
    If we are equally bound to the law, that still does not make us all equal. We are all equally bound to breathing air...we are all equally bound to a lot of rules that are shared with animals and the like....do you contend that we are equal to rodents as well? That would seem to be were your logic leads us to.
    Well truthfully, "equal" has to be judge in the context of how its being used. The fact that I'm a little taller than you (if I am) means you and I are not equal. The fact that we all breath air makes us equal to all air-breathers in that context.

    So using the plethora of ways "equal" can be used everyone and no one is equal.

    And in you OP, you did not mention HOW I said we were equal, just that I said it. And in my initial response, I spelled out the assumed context of my usage.

    And I'll say it again - people are "equal" to the extent that no one is so much smarter and wiser than anyone else that they are justified in being able to dictate to everyone else how they should be living their lives. And thus any "because I said so" law is not based on any irrefutable wisdom that needs to be followed - wherever it came from, there's just people behind it who are not inherently better (in other words, they are "equal") than anyone else.

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    Re: All equal?

    Quote Originally Posted by mican333 View Post
    No. But then the action of committing a crime would carry the same penalty no matter which one of us committed it (or should in principle). Why? Because we are equal.

    We are EQUALLY beholden to the law for our actions and equally punishable for breaking the law.
    We are not all equally beholden to the law, past occurances of illegal activities make it so that one is more bound to punishments that someone that has not committed any crimes at all. For instance, 3 strikes you are out law. If you commit three major felonies, you get a life sentence, automatically. Where as other person that commits that very same crime, may only get 10 years.

    Point is, the actions that we take, make us now equal or less equal to our peers...with that, everyone CANNOT be equal.

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    Re: All equal?

    According to the US constitution we are supposed to be equal.
    What a load of bull that is!
    According to US history it seems to be we are all equal unless you are black or a woman.
    Sure history has changed but there are still things that show we are not equal.
    Physically we obviously arent equal, same with emotionally and mentally.
    I have to agree that equality is impossible to ever reach.
    The truth about forever is forever never comes. The truth about today is that it only last until tomorrow. The truth about tomorrow is that its just another day.
    Keep sayin' my name baby, 'cause haters make me FAMOUS
    Jayson Micheal was born April 6, 2009 :-D

  17. #17
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    Re: All equal?

    Quote Originally Posted by leeshaforeverr View Post
    According to the US constitution we are supposed to be equal.
    What a load of bull that is!
    According to US history it seems to be we are all equal unless you are black or a woman.
    Sure history has changed but there are still things that show we are not equal.
    Physically we obviously arent equal, same with emotionally and mentally.
    I have to agree that equality is impossible to ever reach.
    The Constitution does not say that we are all supposed to be equal. It says among other things....well the Declaration of Independence says that we were CREATED equal. Meaning that regardless of sex, race, religion, whatever, we were brought into this world the same and among equals.

    Our choices is what separates us from others and makes us more or less equal to them.

    Is equality possible? Sure, nearly everything is possible...is it likely? Not a chance.
    Last edited by princefigs; March 15th, 2008 at 06:20 PM.

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    Re: All equal?

    When I say supposed to be it means the same thing
    History has proven over and over again that we will never be equal
    Sure it may be possible but by looking at history and it constantly repeating itself it goes to show you that you might as well just say it is impossible.
    The truth about forever is forever never comes. The truth about today is that it only last until tomorrow. The truth about tomorrow is that its just another day.
    Keep sayin' my name baby, 'cause haters make me FAMOUS
    Jayson Micheal was born April 6, 2009 :-D

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    Re: All equal?

    The way you said it, you made it seem like you were submitting that the Constitution said something that it did not.

    The Constitution says what it says, and does not say what it does not say. It is specific in stating that everyone is created equal. It does not say that everyone is equal. We must be very careful with the Constitution, it is the most sacred document in the free world. We must not allow ourselves to start interpreting the Constitution or drift from the original intent of it.

    Too much of that is already being done.

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    Re: All equal?

    Whenever I say something dont always take it literal especially when I use numbers (without information to back it) or words like supposed to or supposedly.

    But like I said history repeats itself
    So it goes to show us that it is near impossible to reach equality
    The truth about forever is forever never comes. The truth about today is that it only last until tomorrow. The truth about tomorrow is that its just another day.
    Keep sayin' my name baby, 'cause haters make me FAMOUS
    Jayson Micheal was born April 6, 2009 :-D

 

 
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