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  1. #1
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    Monogamy vs Open relationships

    For some people monogamy places unfair demands (sexually) on each partner. Someone such as myself it is unfeasible for a single individual to satisfy us sexually. I'm bisexual as well as my girlfriend. Can she satisfy me in every way and vice versa? No. Open relationships (polyamory) is an acceptable practice for many people.

    Finances they say are one of the leading causes of divorce. Cheating comes pretty close. There is obviously a desire when in a long term relationship to have sex with others. Imagine how many relationships might have been saved if they were open?

    Husband: "Honey I'm really diggin the cute office chick at work"
    Wife: "Thats great! Any plans?"
    Husband: "Gonna go to lunch tomorrow! How about the handsome dude you're balling at work?"
    Wife: "He keeps checking me out!"
    Husband: "Awesome!"

    Okay, maybe a little silly but this type of relationship shows complete openess to other sexual possibilities. It is not a relationship built on fear (monogamy) where a man or woman feel guilty about desiring someone else and placed in the situation to cheat.

    Quote Originally Posted by Slipnish View Post
    Uhm...what's the debate?
    The morality, the viability, the desirability, the legalities, some of the above, none of the above?
    Any of those work
    Last edited by dogssup; April 9th, 2008 at 07:50 PM.

  2. #2
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    Re: Monogamy vs Open relationships

    Uhm...what's the debate?

    The morality, the viability, the desirability, the legalities, some of the above, none of the above?

    Clue us in...
    But if you do not find an intelligent companion, a wise and well-behaved person going the same way as yourself, then go on your way alone, like a king abandoning a conquered kingdom, or like a great elephant in the deep forest. - Buddha

  3. #3
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    Re: Monogamy vs Open relationships

    Personally I have no use for polyamory, and prefer to put my entire emotional energy into one relationship. But is it possible to be emotionally committed to one person and yet be sexually involved with multiple partners? Sure, and I wouldn't consider it immoral as long as both you and your partner/s agree to that type of relationship.
    Trendem

  4. #4
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    Re: Monogamy vs Open relationships

    But is it possible to be emotionally committed to one person and yet be sexually involved with multiple partners? Sure, and I wouldn't consider it immoral as long as both you and your partner/s agree to that type of relationship.
    I'm not so sure.
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  5. #5
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    Re: Monogamy vs Open relationships

    Quote Originally Posted by dogssup View Post
    Someone such as myself it is unfeasible for a single individual to satisfy us sexually. I'm bisexual as well as my girlfriend. Can she satisfy me in every way and vice versa? No. Open relationships (polyamory) is an acceptable practice for many people.
    Perhaps a committed, loving relationship is about more than just being sexually satisfied in every possible way?

  6. #6
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    Re: Monogamy vs Open relationships

    Quote Originally Posted by dogssup View Post
    For some people monogamy places unfair demands (sexually) on each partner. Someone such as myself it is unfeasible for a single individual to satisfy us sexually. I'm bisexual as well as my girlfriend. Can she satisfy me in every way and vice versa? No. Open relationships (polyamory) is an acceptable practice for many people.

    Finances they say are one of the leading causes of divorce. Cheating comes pretty close. There is obviously a desire when in a long term relationship to have sex with others. Imagine how many relationships might have been saved if they were open?

    Husband: "Honey I'm really diggin the cute office chick at work"
    Wife: "Thats great! Any plans?"
    Husband: "Gonna go to lunch tomorrow! How about the handsome dude you're balling at work?"
    Wife: "He keeps checking me out!"
    Husband: "Awesome!"

    Okay, maybe a little silly but this type of relationship shows complete openess to other sexual possibilities. It is not a relationship built on fear (monogamy) where a man or woman feel guilty about desiring someone else and placed in the situation to cheat.



    Any of those work
    Let's assume your argument is that an open relationship is just as emotionally binding as a monogamous one. I had a private discussion with someone very recently about this very topic.

    Here's the deal. You and your gf can continually go banging other people and feel, somehow, that is a sign of trust and commitment. Here's the real cliffhanger, though.. I am assuming your gf is a human being. You seem human enough since you have managed to bang out a few words on a keyboard that form complete and well-structured sentences. This just in... humans have egos. Now, if you are claiming neither you nor your gf have an ego, this, in itself, is a signal of something wrong. Why? Cause we just established people have egos. So, either you have both chosen to ignore/suppress your egos or one or both of you is broken (abnormal would be the more clinical term). It is highly unlikely your lack of ego exists in vacuum. Where did it go or have you suppressed it to hide other insecurities...

    There is another issue related to ego. At some point your gf will wonder why the hell DON"T you care she is banging the guy in the office. Hell, do you let strangers ride your car? No. But, you let them ride your girlfriend. Outstanding. You have just placed more value in your car than your gf. Let's see, you will probably hold onto your car for somewhere between 5 and 10 years. What are the odds the gf will last longer than the car?

    Hey, anomalies happen. I wish you and her the best of luck in your committed and open relationship. You will have to explain what the commitment part is. Is she committed to you so long as there isn't another willing **** within reach? There are different types of open relationships and some may last longer than others. In the end, an open relationship loses something essential in a truly committed relationship. That missing ingredient is true commitment. Sorry, when your gf is giving another guy head, she isn't thinking about how to best make you happy and vice-versa. That, is the very antithesis of commitment.
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  7. #7
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    Re: Monogamy vs Open relationships

    Quote Originally Posted by Ibelsd View Post
    Here's the deal. You and your gf can continually go banging other people and feel, somehow, that is a sign of trust and commitment. Here's the real cliffhanger, though.. I am assuming your gf is a human being. You seem human enough since you have managed to bang out a few words on a keyboard that form complete and well-structured sentences. This just in... humans have egos. Now, if you are claiming neither you nor your gf have an ego, this, in itself, is a signal of something wrong. Why? Cause we just established people have egos. So, either you have both chosen to ignore/suppress your egos or one or both of you is broken (abnormal would be the more clinical term). It is highly unlikely your lack of ego exists in vacuum. Where did it go or have you suppressed it to hide other insecurities...
    Your analysis is absolutely hilarious! I had a great time reading your response Ibelsd out of any response I have received on ODN thus far in any of my threads. I do indeed have have an ego just as said girlfriend does. Why are there only two options for us:

    (1) We have either chosen to ignore/suppress our egos or,
    (2) One or more of us is abnormal.

    You phrased your possibilities in such a way as if to suggest there are no other valid possibilities. Since I'm unsure exactly on what you're doing here I encourage you to explain a little better.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ibelsd View Post
    There is another issue related to ego. At some point your gf will wonder why the hell DON"T you care she is banging the guy in the office.
    Because I realize I'm open minded/accepting to the fact that it is possible for another human being I'm involved with has other sexual desires outside of me? To deny completely otherwise would be egotistical and selfish (or ignorant).

    Quote Originally Posted by Ibelsd View Post
    Hell, do you let strangers ride your car? No. But, you let them ride your girlfriend. Outstanding. You have just placed more value in your car than your gf. Let's see, you will probably hold onto your car for somewhere between 5 and 10 years. What are the odds the gf will last longer than the car?
    Hilarious! Again, I really laughed and enjoyed this part. Here is the problem with your interpretation of the events:

    (1) I know and trust my girlfriend and therefore trust that she is able to make the right decision in who she has sex with and that she does so in a safe manner.
    (2) I have no previous relationship with a stranger to allow them to barrow my car.

    The situation is kinda like this Ibelsd. Let's assume you and I have been friends for 10 solid years, good pals. We trust one another. If you asked to barrow my car I'd hand over the keys without much thought. Now say you found a girlfriend 6 months ago. I don't know her at all. But if your girlfriend asked me if she could barrow the car I would give her the keys because I place trust in you to have chosen to be with someone trustworthy. My risk is smaller here than if the same girl (same looks, same personality, same being) came up to me randomly on the street and asked if she could use my car. This is called the web of trust...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ibelsd View Post
    Hey, anomalies happen. I wish you and her the best of luck in your committed and open relationship. You will have to explain what the commitment part is. Is she committed to you so long as there isn't another willing **** within reach? There are different types of open relationships and some may last longer than others. In the end, an open relationship loses something essential in a truly committed relationship. That missing ingredient is true commitment.
    What you define as committed in a relationship is subjective, especially this line: "That missing ingredient is true commitment".

    Quote Originally Posted by Ibelsd View Post
    Sorry, when your gf is giving another guy head, she isn't thinking about how to best make you happy and vice-versa. That, is the very antithesis of commitment.
    She is making me very happy that:

    (1) She is able to capitalize on her desires
    (2) She is able to do so without fear, intimidation or jealousy

    And there are other possibilities of commitment in a relationship that you seem to be cleverly ignoring.
    I'd rather be screwed than stewed

  8. #8
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    Re: Monogamy vs Open relationships

    this is against me, against how i was taught, against my religion, infact everyone around me is saying no to this
    i think its wrong because:
    in my religion its a sin
    i dont think anyone in my area is into this, and would be P.O'd if i'd cheated on them

  9. #9
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    Re: Monogamy vs Open relationships

    personally, i am VERY monogamous, BUT if me and my partner are both bisexual, it usually is ok to have other sexual partners as long as they are of the same sex only.....if i were in a relationship with a male, i would indeed leave him if he went to a strip club even, or if he kept on checking out other women....it's just how my brain works, if someone wanted me because i have boobs and my nether regions, then i should be the only boobs and female nether regions in their life....and if they are bi, well i understand, i don't have other appendages to work with...so they can satisfy their desires with other males if need be, as long as i can satisfy my desires for other females

  10. #10
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    Re: Monogamy vs Open relationships

    IMO, it is extremely selfish and egotistical to assume that, in a relationship, you are able to satisfy every desire of your partner, in every aspect of his/her life. Of course, there may be exceptions to this, but they must be exceedingly rare.

    Consider the many areas of your life: social, religious, physical, hobbies, work, entertainment, etc. Is there one person who can satisfy every one of these areas of your life? Probably not. A classic example of this is the stereotypical "girls' night out," when a group of (for this example) straight female friends, possibly in relationships or married, simply feel the need to be around other girls for a while. Can a guy fulfill this need? No.

    My girlfriend likes to get back rubs, and we have a couple of mutual friends who give really good massages. Should I deny her of that? Heck no! I think it's great that they can fulfill that desire she has (to get a really good back rub). It's not that I can't give a massage, it's just that she wants one from them every once in a while.

    To me, it's a matter of degrees. I can't fulfill all of my girlfriend's massage needs, and I'm perfectly OK with that. Who is to say that there aren't relationships where one partner can't fulfill the other's sexual needs completely, and this is perfectly fine?
    So...

    I finaggled my way into being able to do a Philosophy minor. I blame you, ODN.


  11. #11
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    Re: Monogamy vs Open relationships

    Quote Originally Posted by dogssup View Post
    Okay, maybe a little silly but this type of relationship shows complete openess to other sexual possibilities. It is not a relationship built on fear (monogamy) where a man or woman feel guilty about desiring someone else and placed in the situation to cheat.
    Who says monogamy is founded in fear? Can you support that?
    But in your hearts revere Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect, keeping a clear conscience, so that those who speak maliciously against your good behavior in Christ may be ashamed of their slander.
    1 Peter 3:15-16

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    Re: Monogamy vs Open relationships

    Quote Originally Posted by Hope View Post
    IMO, it is extremely selfish and egotistical to assume that, in a relationship, you are able to satisfy every desire of your partner, in every aspect of his/her life. Of course, there may be exceptions to this, but they must be exceedingly rare.

    To me, it's a matter of degrees. I can't fulfill all of my girlfriend's massage needs, and I'm perfectly OK with that. Who is to say that there aren't relationships where one partner can't fulfill the other's sexual needs completely, and this is perfectly fine?
    Hope, well said and very true. My thoughts exactly on the issue.

    Quote Originally Posted by dbogjohnson View Post
    this is against me, against how i was taught, against my religion, infact everyone around me is saying no to this
    i think its wrong because:
    in my religion its a sin
    i dont think anyone in my area is into this, and would be P.O'd if i'd cheated on them
    Correction: It is wrong for YOU because of your various life circumstances. It does not suggest it is wrong on a moral level because essentially religion is highly subjective.

    Also I'm sure more people have these desires in your area than you wish to be aware of; but I'm sure they are just as beaten in the head with "sins" and "religion" as everyone else is.


    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Hyde View Post
    Who says monogamy is founded in fear? Can you support that?
    Whoops, you're right Mr. Hyde. I didn't mean to suggest that monogamy is founded in fear.

    What I meant to say was that monogamy has the potential to induce fear for certain people who have desires for sex outside their partner.
    I'd rather be screwed than stewed

  13. #13
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    Re: Monogamy vs Open relationships

    Quote Originally Posted by Trendem View Post
    Personally I have no use for polyamory, and prefer to put my entire emotional energy into one relationship. But is it possible to be emotionally committed to one person and yet be sexually involved with multiple partners? Sure, and I wouldn't consider it immoral as long as both you and your partner/s agree to that type of relationship.
    Then again, why be emotionally committed to just one person?

  14. #14
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    Re: Monogamy vs Open relationships

    Quote Originally Posted by dogssup View Post
    Your analysis is absolutely hilarious! I had a great time reading your response Ibelsd out of any response I have received on ODN thus far in any of my threads..
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    Quote Originally Posted by dogssup View Post
    I do indeed have have an ego just as said girlfriend does. Why are there only two options for us:

    (1) We have either chosen to ignore/suppress our egos or,
    (2) One or more of us is abnormal.

    You phrased your possibilities in such a way as if to suggest there are no other valid possibilities. Since I'm unsure exactly on what you're doing here I encourage you to explain a little better.
    Ok. You have acknowledged and your gf have egos. What does this mean to you? What is an ego? You sharing your gf sexually may or may not illicit a response from your ego. I am claiming two things:
    1. Your gf will begin to wonder why, at some point, it doesn't.
    2. She will find the answer disconcerting.

    Isn't that the essence of ego? Bisexuality is not an excuse. If my wife had small breasts, would it be justified to have sex with women who had large breasts because my wife simply doesn't have the "tools" to fulfill that need? Bisexuality is not a sexual free-for-all that gets some free-pass when it comes to the human need for an emotional bond. It is merely an ability to be attracted to members of either sex.

    Quote Originally Posted by dogssup View Post
    Because I realize I'm open minded/accepting to the fact that it is possible for another human being I'm involved with has other sexual desires outside of me? To deny completely otherwise would be egotistical and selfish (or ignorant).
    Open minded? Committment is not throwing up your hands and telling the girl you supposedly care the world for to go find sexual gratification elsewhere. Committment is attempting to fulfill that role. Committment is about work, not simply outsourcing the issue. Sorry honey I cannot lick your vagina like a woman, why don't you handle that on your own. You know honey, I really like dick-like objects shoved up my ass. Since you don't have a dick-like object growing out of your body, guess I better go find it elsewhere. That isn't committment. That is laziness and indifference.

    Quote Originally Posted by dogssup View Post
    Hilarious! Again, I really laughed and enjoyed this part. Here is the problem with your interpretation of the events:

    (1) I know and trust my girlfriend and therefore trust that she is able to make the right decision in who she has sex with and that she does so in a safe manner.
    (2) I have no previous relationship with a stranger to allow them to barrow my car.
    So, you would let some stranger who screwed your gf drive your car? I want to have sex with your gf for no other reason than to be justified in asking to borrow your car. In no way do I mean to disparage your gf either. I am sure she is equally fun to ride. It is just the novelty of the situation you are proposing.

    Quote Originally Posted by dogssup View Post
    The situation is kinda like this Ibelsd. Let's assume you and I have been friends for 10 solid years, good pals. We trust one another. If you asked to barrow my car I'd hand over the keys without much thought. Now say you found a girlfriend 6 months ago. I don't know her at all. But if your girlfriend asked me if she could barrow the car I would give her the keys because I place trust in you to have chosen to be with someone trustworthy. My risk is smaller here than if the same girl (same looks, same personality, same being) came up to me randomly on the street and asked if she could use my car. This is called the web of trust...
    So, your gf only has sex with guys she has known six months or more? Wouldn't this imply she has some sort of emotional bond, as well as, a sexual attraction towards them? It isn't like she is just picking up on a guy at a bar for a fun night of sex and then never seeing them again. Unless your explanation above is flawed.

    Quote Originally Posted by dogssup View Post
    What you define as committed in a relationship is subjective, especially this line: "That missing ingredient is true commitment".
    Ok, I will buy that my definition is subjective. Hey, this is really a debate about values. I would be hard-pressed to say anything said here is objective truth. I expect this debate to follow a logical path, but I don't think we can have a purely objective Oxford style debate on the topic.


    Quote Originally Posted by dogssup View Post
    She is making me very happy that:

    (1) She is able to capitalize on her desires
    (2) She is able to do so without fear, intimidation or jealousy

    And there are other possibilities of commitment in a relationship that you seem to be cleverly ignoring.
    How do you KNOW she is not acting on fear, intimidation, or jealousy? Can you read her mind? I will make this prediction. I have never met your gf. I don't know you nor her from Adam. Here is what you have told me. She is bisexual. She is keen on the open relationship thing. She has no problem with you being gay. I have not heard if she is ok with you screwing other women. It sounds like she is allowed to have sex with other men. Here's my question. How long was she abused, physically or mentally, by either a boyfriend or father? Her parents are separated? You don't have to answer. I woudln't know if you were being truthful or not. You know the truth.
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    Re: Monogamy vs Open relationships

    Quote Originally Posted by Ibelsd View Post
    I am claiming two things:
    1. Your gf will begin to wonder why, at some point, it doesn't.
    2. She will find the answer disconcerting.

    Isn't that the essence of ego?
    I'm not a psychologist and don't pretend to be so I'm unable to answer these questions how they should be answered.

    Well, I have to wonder something Ibel. Why *should* she?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ibelsd View Post
    Bisexuality is not an excuse. If my wife had small breasts, would it be justified to have sex with women who had large breasts because my wife simply doesn't have the "tools" to fulfill that need?
    If those things are sexually important to you why should you not be able to?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ibelsd View Post
    Bisexuality is not a sexual free-for-all that gets some free-pass when it comes to the human need for an emotional bond. It is merely an ability to be attracted to members of either sex.
    If a bisexual man is married to a woman, and if their relationship is not open, he is denying his right to enjoy sex with a man; if such a thing is important to him. I'm certain there are many couples in this type of relationship where that is okay and things work out for them; but that is not the case for everyone.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ibelsd View Post
    Open minded? Committment is not throwing up your hands and telling the girl you supposedly care the world for to go find sexual gratification elsewhere.
    There are other forms of commitment besides sexual.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ibelsd View Post
    Committment is attempting to fulfill that role. Committment is about work, not simply outsourcing the issue.
    It is impossible to expect a single individual to fulfill every possible sexual desire or need.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ibelsd View Post
    So, you would let some stranger who screwed your gf drive your car?
    Yes since I trust her as a person, I place faith in her ability to choose a trustworthy person for sexual encounters.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ibelsd View Post
    So, your gf only has sex with guys she has known six months or more? Wouldn't this imply she has some sort of emotional bond, as well as, a sexual attraction towards them? It isn't like she is just picking up on a guy at a bar for a fun night of sex and then never seeing them again. Unless your explanation above is flawed.
    People she trusts, yes. Then again I'm not afraid if she has an emotional bond with someone else. I'm not jealous nor am I selfish to think I'm king **** and can provide every emotional, physical or mental need of my sexual partners.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ibelsd View Post
    Here is what you have told me. She is bisexual. She is keen on the open relationship thing. She has no problem with you being gay. I have not heard if she is ok with you screwing other women. It sounds like she is allowed to have sex with other men. Here's my question. How long was she abused, physically or mentally, by either a boyfriend or father? Her parents are separated? You don't have to answer. I woudln't know if you were being truthful or not. You know the truth.
    She is okay with me screwing other women or men. Her parents are separated , she was never abused physically or mentally.
    I'd rather be screwed than stewed

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    Re: Monogamy vs Open relationships

    Quote Originally Posted by dogssup View Post
    What I meant to say was that monogamy has the potential to induce fear for certain people who have desires for sex outside their partner.
    If there's no exclusivity, then what exactly makes it a relationship rather than a close friendship?
    But in your hearts revere Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect, keeping a clear conscience, so that those who speak maliciously against your good behavior in Christ may be ashamed of their slander.
    1 Peter 3:15-16

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    Re: Monogamy vs Open relationships

    Quote Originally Posted by dogssup View Post
    She is okay with me screwing other women or men. Her parents are separated , she was never abused physically or mentally.
    I have to wonder something, even if you say she never was abused yet engages in such promiscuity. Does your girlfriend also engage in bestiality? Also, were you abused as a child? Obviously you do not have to answer such personal questions, but I am curious how someone could develop such a deviant sexual orientation.

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    Re: Monogamy vs Open relationships

    Plenty of people engage in promiscuity and were not abused...and no she doesn't care for animals.
    I'd rather be screwed than stewed

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    Re: Monogamy vs Open relationships

    Quote Originally Posted by dogssup View Post
    Plenty of people engage in promiscuity and were not abused...and no she doesn't care for animals.
    I certainly would not dispute that fact, although usually such open promiscuity as polyamory and open relationships, rather than one-night stands in between monogamous relationships, indicates a likelihood of childhood abuse or other negative environmental factors on sexual development. When one has the mindset that promiscuity is the natural, desirable and long-term sexual behavior, that does not suggest a healthy upbringing.

    Regardless, you did not answer my question of whether you were abused as a child. You definitely are not obligated to, but considering your openness about your sex life, I am wondering if you simply forgot to answer.

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    Re: Monogamy vs Open relationships

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinBrowning View Post
    I certainly would not dispute that fact, although usually such open promiscuity as polyamory and open relationships, rather than one-night stands in between monogamous relationships, indicates a likelihood of childhood abuse or other negative environmental factors on sexual development. When one has the mindset that promiscuity is the natural, desirable and long-term sexual behavior, that does not suggest a healthy upbringing.
    You a psychologist?

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinBrowning View Post
    Regardless, you did not answer my question of whether you were abused as a child. You definitely are not obligated to, but considering your openness about your sex life, I am wondering if you simply forgot to answer.
    Never physically or sexually abused. Verbally ~1 1/2 years from an uncle when I was a teen.
    I'd rather be screwed than stewed

 

 
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