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  1. #41
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    Re: Jesus vs. Krishna

    Quote Originally Posted by Spartacus View Post
    What scriptural prophecies are there in another religion to foretell the coming of krishna?
    I believe the answer is no, but your own post pointed out that Christians are simply an offshoot of Judaism and thus it is not "another religion." Christ was neither the first nor last claimed Jewish Messiah, only by far the most successful. He was fulfilling the prophecy of his own faith rather than that of "another religion." The reason there was a split was that not everyone of his own faith believed his claim.

  2. #42
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    Re: Jesus vs. Krishna

    Quote Originally Posted by Sigfried View Post
    I believe the answer is no, but your own post pointed out that Christians are simply an offshoot of Judaism and thus it is not "another religion." Christ was neither the first nor last claimed Jewish Messiah, only by far the most successful. He was fulfilling the prophecy of his own faith rather than that of "another religion." The reason there was a split was that not everyone of his own faith believed his claim.
    Actually, the number one reason for the split was that some of the early Christian Jews decided to include gentiles into the Christian fold without requiring the gentiles to be circumcized or keep kosher. THAT is mainly why Christianity eventually came to be recognized as separate from Judaism.

  3. #43
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    Re: Jesus vs. Krishna

    Quote Originally Posted by Spartacus View Post
    ...one thing you have left out is:

    What scriptural prophecies are there in another religion to foretell the coming of krishna?
    Prophecies are by no means an accurate method to validate the existence of any particular god, first of all. This is very problematic and is only going to make things more complicated for you, Spart. Now the burden is on you to show that prophecies are indeed an accurate method to prove your god exists. Next, you have to show us how your particular interpretation of a so-called prophecy is accurate and/or foretell the coming of the Christian god on earth.

    Because there are others who use the bible's so-called prophecies as a means to validate their faith. The Baha'i faith, for example:

    Christians await the return of Christ and the coming of "another comforter." The Jewish scriptures foretell the coming of "another Prophet" like Moses and the return of Elijah from heaven. Many Moslems await the appearance of Mahdi and Meseeh. Krishna promised to personally return from age to age. Buddha said that he was not the first Buddha ever to appear and that another "supremely enlightened" Buddha was still yet to come. Zoroastrian prophecies foretell the coming of a "World-renovator." Native American prophecies foretell the coming of a bearded white man from the east who will bring teachings which will restore the hoop of unity. Each religion, in its own way, has foretold the coming of a great 'religion restoring', 'world uniting', 'peace bringing' Messiah.

    For centuries, people from all over the world have been hoping and praying that they will be the generation which will witness the appearance of their Promised One. Not many have considered the possibility that these prophecies from the various religions might actually all be foretelling the exact same event.

    Members of the Baha'i Faith believe that in the middle of the last century these prophecies actually were fulfilled and that the Promised One truly did appear.

    Baha'ullah, the Prophet founder of the Baha'i Faith, claims to be the Promised One whose coming was explicitly foretold, not only in the Old and the New Testaments.... but also in the prophecies of the Hindu, Buddhist, Zoroastrian, Islamic and other religions.
    Source

    So according to the Baha'i, you've got it all wrong Spart. Your interpretation is false (Jesus is the one true god), while their interpretation is the correct one (Jesus was just one of many divine messengers). How you like them there prophetic apples now? I'm guessing you like them just as much as I do, in that both of us are not members of the Baha'i faith, and hence consider it false. See, we're not so different, Spart... I just believe in one less faith than you do.

    Further more, followers of Krishna will point to their own prophecies as being fulfilled by the coming of Krishna. Check it:

    Krishna repeatedly comes to this world in various forms to perform specific functions. Such avatars distinguish themselves by performing extraordinary feats. They are known by references to them in the Vedas, including Srimad-Bhagavatam, which recounts histories of several prominent incarnations from the beginning of creation.
    Source. Emphasis mine. See Spart, the Hindus have known what was going to happen the whole time, all the way from the beginning of creation.

    The coming of Christ was foretold in Jewish scripture according to Christians. That is largely why the Old Testament -- Jewish scripture -- is included in the Christian Holy Bible. In fact the first Christians were Jews and initially it was possible to be both Jewish and Christian. Christianity was viewed initially as a Jewish sect. Only after the Great Disporia is Christianity viewed as separate from Judaism. So what other major religion foretold the coming of Krishna? In the Judeo/Christian tradition all prophets are foretold, and Christ the Messiah was foretold as well.
    Okay. Says you. See above. Foretelling =/= validation of the existence of a god(s).

    Additionally, not knowing much about krishna
    Gee. You don't say. I recommend the following websites: www.google.com and en.wikipedia.org. Very helpful for learning about things you don't know much about.

    Did Krishna have a group of selected followers (at least 12 or a significantly large number) who, despite persecution, imprisonment, and death -- refused to renounce their beliefs and continued to preach their beliefs...and then fostered generations of similar believers who for centuries carried on despite brutal persecution and mass executions?
    I don't see how this matters at all to validate one faith from another. But to answer your question, yes. Yes Krishna did have a group of selected followers. He had is very own kingdom, actually:

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiki
    On his return to Mathura as a young man, Krishna overthrew and killed his uncle Kamsa after avoiding several assassination attempts from Kamsa's followers. He reinstated Kamsa's father, Ugrasena, as the king of the Yadavas and became a leading prince at the court.[40] During this period, he became a friend of Arjuna and the other Pandava princes of the Kuru kingdom, who were his cousins. Later, he took his Yadava subjects to the city of Dwaraka (in modern Gujarat) and established his own kingdom there.[41]
    I would say a kingdom would have at least 12 or a more significant number of followers. Especially considering all the miracles that Krishna was claimed to have been doing before, during, and after he set up camp as Prince/god on earth. I mean he killed several demons! No small feat that would certainly have lots of people following him. Which brings us to the next part of your little inquiry about "generations of similar believers who for centuries carried on despite brutal persecution and mass executions".

    The answer to this is also yes. Many millions of faithful Krishna believers exists to this very day, even after many centuries (more centuries than Christianity, actually), and yes over the course of these many centuries there was persecution and mass execution. You act like Christianity is the only religion that has faced persecution and mass execution. You'd be hard pressed to find a religion that didn't have some kind of brutal persecution and mass executions. Even the Mormons have had their share, check it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haun%27s_Mill_massacre


    I'm not looking to debate this, because faith is not something one can debate between believers and non-believers -- I am just looking for you to clarify the supposed similarities you claim.
    Ah, so because I am a non-believer, you can't debate with me? What about people who are believers of other faiths?

    But this, like the rest of your post, does not really matter. Whether or not you are willing to debate your faith has nothing to do with the facts surrounding the debate about your faith. Like it or not, you have nothing to prove your faith is the one true faith or that your god actually exists. Nothing. By all means, prove me wrong and tell me exactly what separates your faith from faith in Krishna. You never addressed any points raised in your reply to my post, so at the very least could you tell me what is wrong with the situation as it seems to be:

    Millions of believers? Check.
    Hence, the intuitive "knowledge"/"knowitinmyheart!" claims? Check.
    Old holy books? Check.
    Eyewitness accounts? Check.
    Claims of documented miracles? Check.

    Actual objective, testable, credible evidence? Che...oops.
    What does Christianity have that Krishnaism doesn't have?

  4. #44
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    Re: Jesus vs. Krishna

    Quote Originally Posted by Spartacus View Post
    Actually, the number one reason for the split was that some of the early Christian Jews decided to include gentiles into the Christian fold without requiring the gentiles to be circumcized or keep kosher. THAT is mainly why Christianity eventually came to be recognized as separate from Judaism.
    I'm hoping you will enlighten me with some support for this claim. I would think that following a Messiah and opposing the temple priests are more the major differentiations than whether they were circumcised. There are non circumcised Jews around although admittedly not a lot. And there are plenty of circumcised Christians whom no one refers to as Jewish.

    Anyhow the point is they were the same religion at the time Christ was doing his preaching and Christ himself was considered Jewish. So if your god is a member of religion, then his followers are pretty much offshoots or members of said same religion.

    Here is a website trying to describe Krishna in easy terms
    http://www.krishna.com/node/118

    I did a bit of research. No prophesies I could find that predict his coming, but there is a lot of prophesy in the Gita and many who claim those prophesies have come true and who use that as "proof" of their faith much as Christians do.

    It all reminds me of one of my favorite things about religion.... art. Religions around the world have inspired some of the most wonderful art and architecture in society. Most of it really is amazing and spiritually fulfilling. Many of my all time favorite works of architecture are inspired by some religion or another.

  5. #45
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    Re: Jesus vs. Krishna

    Quote Originally Posted by Prime Zombie View Post

    Ah, so because I am a non-believer, you can't debate with me?
    No. It's not that I can not. Rather, I choose not to. I don't see the point. I would no sooner want to argue faith and religion with an atheist than a lawyer would want to argue law with a garbage collector.

    What about people who are believers of other faiths?
    At least they have a faith. Good for them. Christ teaches that it does not matter what one's religion is -- so long as one has faith and strives to do well by his neighbors and others.

    What does Christianity have that Krishnaism doesn't have?
    "Krishnaism?"

    Besides Christ? Hundreds of millions more believers, and a history going back to Abraham.

  6. #46
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    Re: Jesus vs. Krishna

    Quote Originally Posted by Sigfried View Post
    I'm hoping you will enlighten me with some support for this claim. I would think that following a Messiah and opposing the temple priests are more the major differentiations than whether they were circumcised. There are non circumcised Jews around although admittedly not a lot. And there are plenty of circumcised Christians whom no one refers to as Jewish.

    Anyhow the point is they were the same religion at the time Christ was doing his preaching and Christ himself was considered Jewish. So if your god is a member of religion, then his followers are pretty much offshoots or members of said same religion.

    God is not a "member of a religion". Jesus, the man, was born and raised Jewish and followed all the laws of that faith. Given His Divine nature, He did not have to, he could have done whatever he chose.

    As for allowing gentiles to become Christian being the element that caused Christianity to become something other than another Messianic Jewish sect -- that is just a basic fact that theologians and religious historians all agree on.

    http://www-scf.usc.edu/~erdemoz/Html/essay6d.htm

    And no Jewish man is uncircumcized and Jewish -- at least not according to my close jewish friends who practice their religion seriously. Also, just because a man happens to be circumcized does not make him Jewish. Ritual circumcision on the 8th day after birth is a covenant with God Jews have kept for thousands of years. "Jewishness" is inherited from the mother, consecrated in male children with circumcision. As for converting to Judaism today, I am more comfortable leaving that to our semi-resident Rabbi. However about two thousand years ago, there was disagreement among the Apostles as to whether or not pig, eel, shellfish-eating gentiles could become Christian. It was argued and decided they could keep their gentile ways and still be Christians -- and shortly thereafter is when historians recognize Christianity as something other than a Jewish sect.

  7. #47
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    Re: Jesus vs. Krishna

    Quote Originally Posted by Spartacus View Post
    No. It's not that I can not. Rather, I choose not to. I don't see the point. I would no sooner want to argue faith and religion with an atheist than a lawyer would want to argue law with a garbage collector.
    Worst analogy I think I have ever read on ODN. First of all, it's very easy to prove laws exist. Next, it is perfectly plausible that a garbage collector be well versed in law. Indeed, the garbage collector could very well be a lawyer or have a passionate interest in law.

    This is just a lame excuse for your own shortcomings debating atheists. How about you spare us this bunk and actually address the issues at hand, i.e. why we should believe that your god exists.



    At least they have a faith. Good for them. Christ teaches that it does not matter what one's religion is -- so long as one has faith and strives to do well by his neighbors and others.
    Problem is they don't have faith in Christ. And correct me if I'm wrong, but from what I remember from Sunday school, the only way into heaven is to accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and personal savior, right? And there's that whole commandment about not worshiping other "false" gods, right?

    I find it ever so amusing how theists, when their back us against the wall, will stick up for other religions as if at least having another faith was somehow better than being an atheist. Then of course there is the typical cherry picking of scripture, but that's to be expected... though does not help validate your position.

    "Krishnaism?"
    That's right. Krishnaism. Remember those wonderful little websites I recommened earlier on? Perhaps I was not clear enough. Here is what you do when you don't know about something and want to learn about it. What I do that makes it all the more easy is copy a word or phrase in question and then go to said websites and paste it directly in what is know as a "search". The "search" is the little box that you type things in that you want to look for, hence its name. In this case, you would copy "Krishnaism", go to say wikipedia, and then paste it into the search box and hit the "enter" key or click on the "go" button under the search box.

    If you would have done this for the above term, you would have found information regarding it. But tell you what, I'll make it easy for you and provide you with a link that you can just click on and presto-chango! you're there!

    Here is the link to click on: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krishnaism


    Besides Christ? Hundreds of millions more believers, and a history going back to Abraham.
    Please be so kind as to explain how Jesus is god and not Krishna. I've already exhaustively pointed out over and over again that both faiths have millions of believers. If you think that this proves your claims, you are mistaken, as it is the epitome of an ad populum fallacy, which you can read more about here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_populum

    Further more, and as I have already pointed out, Krishnaism also has a history. Quite an extensive one. And one that is older than both Christianity, and according to their claims based on their scripture, Abraham too. Abraham, according to your scriptures and beliefs, was alive and died around 2000 BCE-1500 BCE. Krishna on the other hand:

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiki
    Traditional belief based on scriptural details and astrological calculations gives the date of Krishna's birth, known as Janmashtami,[29] as either 18 or 21 July 3228 BCE.[30]

    So Spart, care to actually address the debate at all? Did you bother to read the entire thread, or let alone the OP?

  8. #48
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    Re: Jesus vs. Krishna

    Quote Originally Posted by Spartacus View Post
    No. It's not that I can not. Rather, I choose not to. I don't see the point. I would no sooner want to argue faith and religion with an atheist than a lawyer would want to argue law with a garbage collector.
    Right, because the garbage collect just might wind up making the lawyer look stupid.
    Quote Originally Posted by Spartacus View Post
    At least they have a faith. Good for them. Christ teaches that it does not matter what one's religion is -- so long as one has faith and strives to do well by his neighbors and others.
    So, by yours and Jesus' admission, any and every faith is potentially just as valid as the next.

    Ever hear the saying "If everyone is special, then no one is"? Seems appropriate here...
    Quote Originally Posted by Spartacus View Post
    "Krishnaism?"

    Besides Christ? Hundreds of millions more believers, and a history going back to Abraham.
    Right, so it shares commonalities with pornography, drugs and prostitution. Brilliant.

  9. #49
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    Re: Jesus vs. Krishna

    Quote Originally Posted by Swindall View Post
    I could be tottally wrong here but wasn't the 'christ' the Jews expected, not the same 'christ' that christians believe Jesus to be. So what I'm saying is, the 'prophet' that is talked about in Jewish scripture isn't actually Jesus. Therefore 'Jesus' wasn't foretold, it was scripture written about someone/something else.

    I seem to remember something about the 'christ' was supposed to be on a horse and break through gates.... But Jesus came on a donkey etc
    Swindall you are exactly right. The Christ of Christianity falls miserably short of the prophesies of the Old Testament. The only way for a Christian mind to get their head around this is to claim that some prophesies are wrong.

    this causes 2 HUGE can of worms to appear.

    1. The Bible is the inerrant word of God. Thus all prophesy MUST be true or God is not inerrant.

    2. how do you go about claiming which ones are true and which ones are false?

    As propaganda is a major vehicle for the Bible it causes us to seriously question the validity of the Bible.

    But I digress and lets have soem fun with Jesus for a moment shall we.

    1. Jesus does NOT fulfill the messianic prophesies.

    What is the Messiah supposed to accomplish? The Bible says that he will:
    A. Build the Third Temple (Ezekiel 37:26-28).
    B. Gather all Jews back to the Land of Israel (Isaiah 43:5-6).
    C. Usher in an era of world peace, and end all hatred, oppression, suffering and disease. As it says: "Nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall man learn war anymore." (Isaiah 2:4)
    D. Spread universal knowledge of the God of Israel, which will unite humanity as one. As it says: "God will be King over all the world -- on that day, God will be One and His Name will be One" (Zechariah 14:9).

    The historical fact is that Jesus fulfilled none of these messianic prophecies.

    Christians counter that Jesus will fulfill these in the Second Coming, but Jewish sources show that the Messiah will fulfill the prophecies outright, and no concept of a second coming exists.

    2. Jesus is NOT a descendant of David. The only evidence you have in the Bible as to the lineage of Jesus is so contrived and hodge podged together it's an act of faith larger than that to believe in God to believe it. I reference Matthew Chapter 1 and the last part of Luke Chapter 3. These linages are 1. Traced through Joseph (no blood relation) and 2. almost completely different. I guess it's too bad Jesus wasn't a Morman so we could have an accurate lineage.

    3. Jesus is NOT a prophet. he came 350 years AFTER the age of prophecy according to the Jews. You remember them....the guys that invented your god right?

    4. The Messiah will lead the Jewish people to full Torah observance. The Torah states that all mitzvot remain binding forever, and anyone coming to change the Torah is immediately identified as a false prophet. (Deut. 13:1-4)
    Throughout the New Testament, Jesus contradicts the Torah and states that its commandments are no longer applicable. (see John 1:45 and 9:16, Acts 3:22 and 7:37)

    5. The Christian idea of a virgin birth is derived from the verse in Isaiah 7:14 describing an "alma" as giving birth. The word "alma" has always meant a young woman, but Christian theologians came centuries later and translated it as "virgin." This accords Jesus' birth with the first century pagan idea of mortals being impregnated by gods.

    6. The verse in Psalms 22:17 reads: "Like a lion, they are at my hands and feet." The Hebrew word ki-ari (like a lion) is grammatically similar to the word "gouged." Thus Christianity reads the verse as a reference to crucifixion: "They pierced my hands and feet."

    7. Christianity claims that Isaiah chapter 53 refers to Jesus, as the "suffering servant."

    In actuality, Isaiah 53 directly follows the theme of chapter 52, describing the exile and redemption of the Jewish people. The prophecies are written in the singular form because the Jews ("Israel") are regarded as one unit. The Torah is filled with examples of the Jewish nation referred to with a singular pronoun.

    Ironically, Isaiah's prophecies of persecution refer in part to the 11th century when Jews were tortured and killed by Crusaders who acted in the name of Jesus.

    From where did these mistranslations stem? St. Gregory, 4th century Bishop of Nanianzus, wrote: "A little jargon is all that is necessary to impose on the people. The less they comprehend, the more they admire."

    8. Jewish belief is based on a national revelation....not miracles.

    Of the 15,000 religions in human history, only Judaism bases its belief on national revelation -- i.e. God speaking to the entire nation. If God is going to start a religion, it makes sense He'll tell everyone, not just one person.
    Judaism, unique among all of the world's major religions, does not rely on "claims of miracles" as the basis for its religion. In fact, the Bible says that God sometimes grants the power of "miracles" to charlatans, in order to test Jewish loyalty to the Torah (Deut. 13:4).
    Maimonides states (Foundations of Torah, ch. 8):
    The Jews did not believe in Moses, our teacher, because of the miracles he performed. Whenever anyone's belief is based on seeing miracles, he has lingering doubts, because it is possible the miracles were performed through magic or sorcery. All of the miracles performed by Moses in the desert were because they were necessary, and not as proof of his prophecy.
    What then was the basis of [Jewish] belief? The Revelation at Mount Sinai, which we saw with our own eyes and heard with our own ears, not dependent on the testimony of others... as it says, "Face to face, God spoke with you..." The Torah also states: "God did not make this covenant with our fathers, but with us -- who are all here alive today." (Deut. 5:3)
    Judaism is not miracles. It is the personal eyewitness experience of every man, woman and child, standing at Mount Sinai 3,300 years ago.

    I could go on and on....but I think you get the idea.

    In Heaven there is no beer. That's why we drink it here.

    Rogue Cardinal, Member of the God-Awful Atheist Syndicate


  10. #50
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    Re: Jesus vs. Krishna

    Quote Originally Posted by Sigfried View Post
    I believe the answer is no, but your own post pointed out that Christians are simply an offshoot of Judaism and thus it is not "another religion." Christ was neither the first nor last claimed Jewish Messiah, only by far the most successful. He was fulfilling the prophecy of his own faith rather than that of "another religion." The reason there was a split was that not everyone of his own faith believed his claim.
    Ah now....you fail to address the REAL success of Jesus. Were it not for ROME.....Christianity would have failed like the other wanna-be messiahs. Constantine is the only real reason Christianity thrived.

    In Heaven there is no beer. That's why we drink it here.

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  11. #51
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    Re: Jesus vs. Krishna

    Quote Originally Posted by Spartacus View Post


    At least they have a faith. Good for them. Christ teaches that it does not matter what one's religion is -- so long as one has faith and strives to do well by his neighbors and others.
    I have to question if you READ the Bible you love so much.

    Christ says the only way to Heaven is through CHRIST. Thus all other religions perish in hell. It doesn't matter that you have faith in A god....but THE god, especially Jesus. Thus Muslims all go to hell because Christ is merely a prophet and NOT the son of God which is blasphemous to you. Jews deny Christ at every turn....thus they blaspheme and go to hell. Hindu's worship many gods as do Shinto practitioners.

    You sir are a heretic.

    In Heaven there is no beer. That's why we drink it here.

    Rogue Cardinal, Member of the God-Awful Atheist Syndicate


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    Re: Jesus vs. Krishna

    Quote Originally Posted by chadn737 View Post
    Because Hinduism is a tangled mess, where even Jesus and Buddha can be seen as an incarnation of Vishnu.
    So? That's kind of the point of several incarnations. They each have a different purpose.

    The Hindus worship a vast array of gods and demons and depending on who you ask some are exist, some dont, and there are even some Hindus who do not believe in actual gods. Thats the sort of overt contradiction of beliefs that simply doesn't cut it.
    First off, Hindus don't worship a "vast array of Gods". But merely one omniscient, omnipresent God in different forms, something Christians and Muslims have had a hard time grasping over the years, which has resulting in the destruction of Hindu temples and condemnation of Hindus as "godless heathen idolaters." How sweet.

    Actually, this "overt contradiction" does "cut it". Some Hindus, for example, call God Krishna, some Shiva, some Shakti, some Buddha, and some deny God entirely. There is a story in Hindu scripture about an atheist who insisted that there was no God, and constantly focused upon the "fact" that there was no God. Morning, noon, and night, he would tell himself "There is no God, there is no God..." He ended up achieving moksha (liberation). Why? Because he was no different from the Hindu faithful who focused upon God. The difference is that instead of a traditional name, he called his god "not God." So atheism, too, is a completely valid school of thought in Hinduism.

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    Re: Jesus vs. Krishna

    Quote Originally Posted by chadn737 View Post
    PZ, you are ignoring the actual argument.

    1) Hindu faith allows for multiple paths to God. Those who worship Krishna are no different recognizing other paths.

    2) Most of those paths are in contradiction to one another.

    3) Since the worshipers of Krishna agree that there are other paths that means that Krishna is not the other path and that one can choose paths other than Krishna.

    4) The fact that the worship of Krishna allows contradictory paths, ones that disagree on fundamental aspects, that tells you that the worship of Krishna is not so logically sound, but rather filled with contradictions.

    5) Its simple logic. Contradiction on fundamental points does not make for a sound religion.
    1) The Christian faith has several different factions that all claim to be correct.

    2) Most of those paths are in contradiction to one another; by their own assertions of supremacy, they can't all be right, since there is only "one way". Yet they all claim to be the one true path!

    So who's right, and who's wrong?

    Christianity= Contradictions, chad.

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    Re: Jesus vs. Krishna

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinBrowning View Post
    Krishna is merely believed to be a teacher. He died, like Mohammed and Buddha. No one believes otherwise.
    Um...Krishna is believed to be an avatar (incarnation) of God.

    Who is more relevant and able to influence my life, both here and eternally--a dead man, or a living man who conquered death?
    Yes. He died. He died and was reborn as Buddha. He "conquered death" in that regard, if you insist that a person can only be "relevant to one's life both here and eternally" if he "conquered death".

    The very fact that Krishna influences millions of people in India and (thanks to the International Society of Krishna Consciousness) around the globe proves that Krishna could indeed have been relevant to your life, had Jesus not beat him to it and locked the doors. You as a Christian accept Jesus and deny Krishna. But there are several Krishna devotees who accept them both. They have something you don't: open mindedness. Like all Christians (as far as I know) you refuse to accept the idea that anyone else could possible have been divine, save Jesus, despite having no more evidence to support this than followers of any other religion. Yet you continue to stubbornly deny anyone else. Both Krishna and Jesus could very easily become relevant to your life. But only if you choose to make it so.

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    Re: Jesus vs. Krishna

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinBrowning View Post
    Strange that none of those supposed gods are worshipped anymore, while Christ is worshipped by billions of people. Perhaps it's because they didn't rise from the dead, or even live in the first place, while Christ did. I could invent a story too about a god who rose from the dead, but it would die out rather quickly. Kind of like all the supposed gods you listed.
    Christianity too would've died out had Constantine not backed it up. Had it not been for him, Jesus too would have been one of the "false gods" that were previously mentioned. The fact that the faiths centered around these "false gods" did not survive in no way proves that these resurrections didn't happen or that they didn't exist in the first place. Especially since people were worshiping Osiris and the others for centuries before Jesus arrived, fashionably late.

    Plus, the incarnations of Vishnu are believed to have saved the world several times over, and people still worship them. They survived,and survival seems to be your qualification for whether a god is false or not. By your own logic, these incarnations existed and were true gods because the faith centered around them survived. Yet, in the same breath, you would claim that they are false gods. Thus, a faith's survival has no bearing on whether a god is "false" or "nonexistent".

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    Re: Jesus vs. Krishna

    Quote Originally Posted by The Great Khan View Post
    1) The Christian faith has several different factions that all claim to be correct.

    2) Most of those paths are in contradiction to one another; by their own assertions of supremacy, they can't all be right, since there is only "one way". Yet they all claim to be the one true path!
    Any support? Or should we all just take your word for it?
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    Re: Jesus vs. Krishna

    Quote Originally Posted by Apokalupsis View Post
    Any support? Or should we all just take your word for it?
    You are a Christian, correct? You must belong to a certain denomination. This denomination believes that it is the correct one (or else it wouldn't be separate from the others) The same goes with all Christian denominations, or else there would be no difference between and Anglican and a Catholic, a Presbyterian and a Baptist . Thus, they all claim to be correct. But, they all cannot be correct, because they all claim to be "the one true path to Jesus." The followers of these groups must know this. Yet they all still claim to be correct! The only way to solve this is to give all groups validity, something that Christians, never seem to want to do.

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    Re: Jesus vs. Krishna

    Quote Originally Posted by The Great Khan View Post
    You are a Christian, correct? You must belong to a certain denomination. This denomination believes that it is the correct one (or else it wouldn't be separate from the others) The same goes with all Christian denominations, or else there would be no difference between and Anglican and a Catholic, a Presbyterian and a Baptist . Thus, they all claim to be correct. But, they all cannot be correct, because they all claim to be "the one true path to Jesus." The followers of these groups must know this. Yet they all still claim to be correct! The only way to solve this is to give all groups validity, something that Christians, never seem to want to do.
    You seem to confuse the issue of essentials (to which all Christian denominations agree on) with nonessentials (varying of opinions).
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    Re: Jesus vs. Krishna

    Quote Originally Posted by Apokalupsis View Post
    You seem to confuse the issue of essentials (to which all Christian denominations agree on) with nonessentials (varying of opinions).
    So? How does this prove Chad's claim that Christianity does not have contradictions comparable to Hinduism?

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    Re: Jesus vs. Krishna

    Quote Originally Posted by The Great Khan View Post
    So? How does this prove Chad's claim that Christianity does not have contradictions comparable to Hinduism?
    None of the differences, affect what each denomination (no such thing as factions) agrees to be what is necessary for salvation. That is, they don't say "The one true path is 'non-dancing'".

    It's absurd, and reckless (and ignorant) to make such silly claims. If you believe otherwise, then again, SUPPORT the argument that you have made.
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