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Thread: Ethics

  1. #1
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    Ethics

    By your moral standards, is it ethical to move into an area controlled by other person, ignore their rules, and try to take something away? Justify your possition.

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    Re: Ethics

    Quote Originally Posted by DementalyRanged
    By your moral standards, is it ethical to move into an area controlled by other person, ignore their rules, and try to take something away? Justify your possition.
    It would depend on the situation. If my 3 yr old is in her bedroom (area she has control over) playing with scissors (her sister has been known to leave kiddie scissors within her reach and if the older one can play with them the younger one thinks she can, too), and I take them away (ignoring her rule that she is capable of playing with them), then, by my moral standards, I have helped her and not harmed her.

    If both kids are fighting over who gets the remote control, I feel it is within my moral right to remove the remote control and shut the TV off.

    If we're talking about the grander scheme of things, I don't think anyone has the right to appoint herself "Mom" unless given that privelege by her children.

    In essence, it is difficult to create an ethical and moral position out of what you have posed without adding in the multitude of factors. Follwing this analogy, the world is full of little sisters, big brothers, big sisters, and little brothers. Sometimes they all get along and it's blissful, but most times they are competing against each other vying to ride "shotgun." The first one who calls it, gets the big chair.
    Souls of the animal kingdom: eagle, fox, bottle-nose dolphin, octopus, house cat. Okay, let's jump this jump. -- Rod Kimble

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    Re: Ethics

    Quote Originally Posted by DementalyRanged
    By your moral standards, is it ethical to move into an area controlled by other person, ignore their rules, and try to take something away? Justify your possition.
    If the person was a criminal, their rules immoral...then yes. It is not only ethical...but it would be unethical not to..... :D

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    Re: Ethics

    Quote Originally Posted by HappyLady
    It would depend on the situation. If my 3 yr old is in her bedroom (area she has control over) playing with scissors (her sister has been known to leave kiddie scissors within her reach and if the older one can play with them the younger one thinks she can, too), and I take them away (ignoring her rule that she is capable of playing with them), then, by my moral standards, I have helped her and not harmed her.
    Yeah but, it's not really HER room. It's the room that was assigned to her. You have the executive authority. So it really doesn't depend on the situation (not in this scenario anyway...).

    If both kids are fighting over who gets the remote control, I feel it is within my moral right to remove the remote control and shut the TV off.
    Ditto

    If we're talking about the grander scheme of things, I don't think anyone has the right to appoint herself "Mom" unless given that privelege by her children.
    I won't even try to understand this one...

    In essence, it is difficult to create an ethical and moral position out of what you have posed without adding in the multitude of factors. Follwing this analogy, the world is full of little sisters, big brothers, big sisters, and little brothers. Sometimes they all get along and it's blissful, but most times they are competing against each other vying to ride "shotgun." The first one who calls it, gets the big chair.
    So you don't believe in moral absolutes?

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    Re: Ethics

    Quote Originally Posted by Godlesspagan
    So you don't believe in moral absolutes?
    I don't believe anyone on this Earth should appoint themselves the enforcers of moral absolutes.

    That doesn't mean I don't believe in moral absolutes.
    Souls of the animal kingdom: eagle, fox, bottle-nose dolphin, octopus, house cat. Okay, let's jump this jump. -- Rod Kimble

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    Re: Ethics

    Quote Originally Posted by DementalyRanged
    By your moral standards, is it ethical to move into an area controlled by other person, ignore their rules, and try to take something away? Justify your possition.
    I can't tell if you're talking about the Iraq invasion or the Muslim head-scarf thing in France. ;?

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    Re: Ethics

    Quote Originally Posted by HappyLady
    I don't believe anyone on this Earth should appoint themselves the enforcers of moral absolutes.

    That doesn't mean I don't believe in moral absolutes.
    Maybe not with this post, BUT:

    In essence, it is difficult to create an ethical and moral position out of what you have posed without adding in the multitude of factors. Follwing this analogy, the world is full of little sisters, big brothers, big sisters, and little brothers. Sometimes they all get along and it's blissful, but most times they are competing against each other vying to ride "shotgun." The first one who calls it, gets the big chair.
    I see "it is difficult", "multitude of factors", "sometimes", "most times"...

    So which is it? Always or sometimes?

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    Re: Ethics

    Quote Originally Posted by HappyLady
    I don't believe anyone on this Earth should appoint themselves the enforcers of moral absolutes.

    That doesn't mean I don't believe in moral absolutes.

    Let's throw away the police and judicial system...everyone for themself! ;?

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    Re: Ethics

    A clarification of the question: all participents are to be considered adults, and no rules violate any ethical considerations.

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    Re: Ethics

    Quote Originally Posted by Godlesspagan
    Maybe not with this post, BUT:



    I see "it is difficult", "multitude of factors", "sometimes", "most times"...

    So which is it? Always or sometimes?
    In relationship to it being ethical to move into someone's space and overide their policies, I do not think there is a moral absolute regarding that issue. Regarding moral absolutes, in general, I believe they exist.
    Souls of the animal kingdom: eagle, fox, bottle-nose dolphin, octopus, house cat. Okay, let's jump this jump. -- Rod Kimble

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    Re: Ethics

    Quote Originally Posted by Spartacus
    Let's throw away the police and judicial system...everyone for themself! ;?
    The police and judicial system are not self-appointed.
    Souls of the animal kingdom: eagle, fox, bottle-nose dolphin, octopus, house cat. Okay, let's jump this jump. -- Rod Kimble

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    Re: Ethics

    Quote Originally Posted by DementalyRanged
    By your moral standards, is it ethical to move into an area controlled by other person, ignore their rules, and try to take something away? Justify your possition.
    Yes, if their rules are unethical. Of course, one must believe in absolute morality, or else it is just everyone's equally baseless opinions competing.

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    Re: Ethics

    Quote Originally Posted by HappyLady
    I don't believe anyone on this Earth should appoint themselves the enforcers of moral absolutes.

    That doesn't mean I don't believe in moral absolutes.

    And Iwill still disagree with you. All that is necessary for evil to prevail is for good people to do nothing...


    Where is this whole thread going anyway?

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    Re: Ethics

    Quote Originally Posted by HappyLady
    In relationship to it being ethical to move into someone's space and overide their policies, I do not think there is a moral absolute regarding that issue. Regarding moral absolutes, in general, I believe they exist.
    Help me understand this one. It sounds like you are saying some morals are absolute as a matter of fact, but some are not absolute as a matter of fact. How can one moral be a fact and another not be a fact? Morality in many cases appears to be driven by cultural norms and accepted practices. This does mean I agree with some of these things, simply that they are acceptable to the cultures that practice them.

    William Graham Sumner was able to present in his book "Folkways" that the morals we adopt are not based on a set standard of right and wrong but rather that our sense of morality is driven strictly by our training and upbringing. What may be right in one culture will be wrong in another culture, and vice versa. Some examples:

    Bigamy - In some cultures a man can have many wives (Currently Islam and in the past King Solomon, The wisest man in the Bible).

    In Tibet a woman is encouraged to have many husbands.

    Infantcide - Some Eskimo tribes allowed deformed babies to die by being exposed to the elements.

    Patricide - In the Fiji Islands, aged parents were killed.

    In many places in Europe adultery is encouraged in the form of swinging. In just as many poorer cultures, stealing is accepted and encouraged.

    So either morals are absolute or they are not, or at least it appears that way. Your thoughts?

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    Re: Ethics

    Morals are established by the resident majority. The majority changes over time, morals change over time. Culture contributes to such things, and religion. If a resident majority shares a common culture or religion, the morals will be common. If this situation remains constant over time, the morals will remain constant over that amount of time. If America became 95% Muslim tomorrow morning, you would notice a distinct moral shift.

    That said, I believe various immoral actions are necessary to define the relevance of morality. Some people must be allowed to slip through the cracks and be bad people, or else there would be no incentive to be good. Regardless of the standards. Therefore, if a country's population in its entirety worshipped Satan, a single God-fearing/worshipping person will be a criminal for his or her actions and attitudes. Kindness is not taken lightly in a world of pain and sin.
    Fortunately, the darkest of darkness is not as terrible as we fear.
    Unfortunately, the lightest of light, all things good, are not so wonderful as we hope for them to be.
    What, then, is left, but various shades of grey neutrality? Where are the heroes and villains? All I see are people.

  16. #16
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    Re: Ethics

    Quote Originally Posted by Godlesspagan
    Help me understand this one.
    I believe there are two different kinds of moral standards. There are moral standards that are derived from cultural practices (bigamy, polygamy, animal sacrifices, etc...) But there are some morals that are spiritually derived. By "spiritual" I am not necessarily referring to God, but more an inherent respect for the self. Some people could credit evolution, some people credit it to God. I prefer to refer to it as spiritual standards.

    In these moral absolutes, I believe are moral standards like not stealing and not killing. I believe these are two morals that always fall into "right" and "wrong." It is always wrong to steal. It is always wrong to kill. Now, society largely disagrees with me. But all of this stems from the big spiritual moral standard that is pretty much found in all cultures and religions. And that is, "Do unto other as you would have done to you." (psychological issues aside.) It doesn't mean that we are culturally wrong to steal (if my kids were starving, I'd steal to feed them. If someone attacked me, I'd defend myself and feel justified in doing so.) But I believe it means that we are spiritually immoral if we do such things whether culturally justified or not.
    Souls of the animal kingdom: eagle, fox, bottle-nose dolphin, octopus, house cat. Okay, let's jump this jump. -- Rod Kimble

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    Re: Ethics

    Quote Originally Posted by HappyLady
    I believe there are two different kinds of moral standards. There are moral standards that are derived from cultural practices (bigamy, polygamy, animal sacrifices, etc...) But there are some morals that are spiritually derived. By "spiritual" I am not necessarily referring to God, but more an inherent respect for the self. Some people could credit evolution, some people credit it to God. I prefer to refer to it as spiritual standards.

    In these moral absolutes, I believe are moral standards like not stealing and not killing. I believe these are two morals that always fall into "right" and "wrong." It is always wrong to steal. It is always wrong to kill. Now, society largely disagrees with me. But all of this stems from the big spiritual moral standard that is pretty much found in all cultures and religions. And that is, "Do unto other as you would have done to you." (psychological issues aside.) It doesn't mean that we are culturally wrong to steal (if my kids were starving, I'd steal to feed them. If someone attacked me, I'd defend myself and feel justified in doing so.) But I believe it means that we are spiritually immoral if we do such things whether culturally justified or not.

    Thank you, Mr. President.


    Just kidding.


    I hear what you're saying, I just don't think there's much to substantiate it.

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    Re: Ethics

    Quote Originally Posted by Godlesspagan
    What may be right in one culture will be wrong in another culture, and vice versa. Some examples:

    Bigamy - In some cultures a man can have many wives (Currently Islam and in the past King Solomon, The wisest man in the Bible).

    In Tibet a woman is encouraged to have many husbands.

    Infantcide - Some Eskimo tribes allowed deformed babies to die by being exposed to the elements.

    Patricide - In the Fiji Islands, aged parents were killed.

    In many places in Europe adultery is encouraged in the form of swinging. In just as many poorer cultures, stealing is accepted and encouraged.

    So either morals are absolute or they are not, or at least it appears that way. Your thoughts?
    No. What is CONSIDERED wrong in one culture, may be considered right in another culture. That does not mean that it is wrong or right. The only measure of an action's morality is if it is consistent with God's Law.

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    Re: Ethics

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinBrowning
    No. What is CONSIDERED wrong in one culture, may be considered right in another culture. That does not mean that it is wrong or right.
    It means it's wrong for those who want it wrong and right for those who want it right.

    The only measure of an action's morality is if it is consistent with God's Law.
    "I believe..."
    you forgot the "I believe." Until you can substantiate that with anything other than hope and faith, don't state facts.
    Fortunately, the darkest of darkness is not as terrible as we fear.
    Unfortunately, the lightest of light, all things good, are not so wonderful as we hope for them to be.
    What, then, is left, but various shades of grey neutrality? Where are the heroes and villains? All I see are people.

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    Re: Ethics

    Quote Originally Posted by DementalyRanged
    By your moral standards, is it ethical to move into an area controlled by other person, ignore their rules, and try to take something away? Justify your possition.
    Since we are dealing with our own personal moral standards here, and no rules violate any ethical considerations (as per your last post), then I would say no...it is unethical to "move" into an area controlled by another, ignore their rules, and take something of theirs away.

    This appears to be a violation of space, and stealing of property. With my limited understanding of the scenerio given, I would say, that such an act would indeed, be unethical.

    I see no need to justify that unless necessary as it appears pretty self-explanatory.
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