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  1. #1
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    Americans are dangerously incompetent.

    Americans are dangerously incompetent.

    Should we wipe them out?



    P.


  2. #2
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    Re: Americans are dangerously incompetent.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pibs
    Americans are dangerously incompetent.

    Should we wipe them out?



    P.

    You want to kill my mother, my father, my whole family, all of my friends, my dogs, my whole culture? I would kill you for even thinking about it. Where do you live? (I'm just kidding, and am a very non-violent person. Don't flame me.).

  3. #3
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    Re: Americans are dangerously incompetent.

    That's OK, I can understand your feelings.

    But what about this incompetence thing? I mean sheesh!

    The most powerful (nuclear) nation on Earth and also the most incompetent. This doesn't bode well does it?



    P.

  4. #4
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    Re: Americans are dangerously incompetent.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pibs
    That's OK, I can understand your feelings.

    But what about this incompetence thing? I mean sheesh!

    The most powerful (nuclear) nation on Earth and also the most incompetent. This doesn't bode well does it?



    P.
    Well Pibs, to quote a great mind of the 21st century, "Claiming it and supporting it are two different things." Why are you sure that most Americans are dumber than most Europeans, or Asians, or whatever?

  5. #5
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    Re: Americans are dangerously incompetent.

    Yes, I would also be interested in an elaboration. If you want to debate it, you've gotta give us something to debate...
    Judge of a man by his questions rather than by his answers.--Voltaire

  6. #6
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    Re: Americans are dangerously incompetent.

    1) Does incompetence warrant annihilation? Is that a good moral judgement? If so, how far do we take it? What about those who are less skilled than others? What about the mentally challenged?

    2) It is impossible for America to be the only superpower in the world in such a short period of time (less than 100 years of industrialization and state of the art technology), to be incompetent.

    Your argument...is 1) not an argument, it's nonsensical, 2) is completely unsupported. The first premise doesn't have to be accepted, because it has not been shown to be true.

    Of course, I know why you started this thread...but at least in the other thread, there was a little more "oomph!" to the dialog and arguments.

    Perhaps if you supported the premise which warrants the possible conclusion, it may be taken a little, just a tad mind you, more seriously.
    -=]Apokalupsis[=-
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  7. #7
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    Re: Americans are dangerously incompetent.

    I didn't say dumber, I said incompenent.

    Perhaps if you put other peeps in the hotseat they'd mess up just as bad?

    To suggest any of the stuff over the last couple of years was deliberate, is 'conspiracy theory', right?

    So that only leaves incompetence then.

    US intelligence was incompetent and didn't know the attacks were coming. Despite the fact that very day they were holding anti-hijacking exercises, involving hijacked airliners flown into government buildings. Rice herself stated that no-one could have guessed that airliners would be flown into government buildings - utterly incompetent.

    US immigration let the terrorists in despite the fact their visa applications were incomplete. Incompetence again.

    US airline security was so incompetent they allowed not one but FOUR different airliners all to be hijacked on the same day. One must have involved a bomb, cos the US airforce didn't shoot down flight 93, which came down in fragments over an 8 mile area. Utterly incompetent.

    When a Boing 757 'heavy' turned off it's transponder, ignored radio calls and changed course, no-one figured it had been hijacked. How's that for incompetence?

    That plane managed to evade the entire US airforce for over an hour - we're talking a lumbering 757 airliner, and flew straight over the (or very close to) the White House.

    The anti-aircraft missle batteries on the White House failed to go off. Incompetence again.

    It then flew at the Pentagon, still evading the utterly incompetent air defence system.

    In the meantime, the other hijacked airliners had a clear run at their target. Apart from the one that blew up with a bomb. Fighters launched actually headed away from the planes, or straight at them, depending who you believe. Either way, in this dire emergency the pilots couldn't find the throttles and they flew at a max speed of 20% of full power. Utterly incompetent.

    The WTC towers were specifically designed to withstand the impact and fire of a 707 strike - it was a built in feature. The 707 is the same size as a 757. Yet on the day, they plopped down like a controlled demolition. More incompetence.

    Likewise, WTC7, which wasn't even hit by a plane and just had a small fire, ALSO imploded like a controlled demo', straight down like a pack of cards. Incompetent? Indeed, the only other steel-framed building on Earth to collapes from fire was a 21 story building in New Mexico, which also suffered a major Earthquake at the same time. Yet THREE American steel-framed buildings plopped over a 3rd world mud hut - on the same day.

    In the meantime, the Pentogon had almost an hour's warning of the approaching airliner yet again, the military command post itself could not get a fighter up in time to intercept before it reached heavily populated areas. How incompetent is that?

    They COULD have ordered up some from the nearby military airfield but noooo, they ordered some from one 110 miles away. Incompetent.

    The local airfield was also incompetent, for their website claimed they had suitable craft ready to blast into action at a moments notice, 24/7. Yet after 9/11 someone noticed so they altered their website, because obviously they didn't have such aircraft. Must have miscounted or summat. The Google cache remembered for some time though. Oops.

    Happily for the terrorists, the anti-aircraft missle batteries at the Pentagon also failed to fire. The incompetents probably forgot to load them or summat.

    Happily the pilot was equally hopeless and managed to hit the one part of the building that had just been strengthened and had hardly anyone in it. If it weren't for dumb luck the Pentagon could have been really damaged, due to mind-boggling incompetence.

    When the dust had settled, the loony incompetents running the country said to themselves "Mmm. 19 terrorists, mostly from Saudi Arabia. Led by a defecting son of the Saudi Royal family, in protest at our propping up of the corrupt and brutal dictatorship" Having pondered this for awhile, they declared "Iraq did it!". Incompetent see?

    So they invaded Afghanistan. This being a barbaric 3rd world country, OBL outwitted them and remains at large. Incompetence on a grand scale.

    Back to Iraq. Now much as they wanted to take Iraqi oil, I mean catch OBL, who apprantly wasn't in Afghanistan after all, they needed a good reason to invade. But there wasn't one.

    Happily, or sadly, depending on your point of view, the incompent intelligence agency, despite what all the inspectors were telling them, figure out that there were lots and lots of 'weapons of mass destruction'.

    They were utterly incompetent and utterly wrong - however we shouldn't blame them, for they WERE fooled by forged documents claiming he's tried to buy 'yellow cake' from Niger. Everyone who glanced at them said "These are fake" but Bush mentioned it in his speech anyway because no-one told HIM they were blatantly fake. Incompetent again.

    Anyway, they got all ready for war. Various pundits, military generals and the like said "No, you can't do this, it would be a huge bloody mess with no clear way out, nothing really achieved, it would be a massive disaster! At the very least you need many more troops, many many more!". But nope, the incompetent fools went ahead with their plans.

    All around the world, mass protests sprang up, saying "Don't do it!!"

    But they did anyway.

    Halfway through the campaign, when the WMD turned out not to exist, just like everyone had been telling them, they plain forgot why they were even there! Nope, wasn't 9/11, nope, wasn't WMD..erm... oh yes, spreading democracy!

    Now everyone said "You don't have a hope in HELL of 'spreading democracy' in Iraq" but no, the incompetents pressed ahead anyway.

    Bush, always with his finger on the pulse, declared "Mission accomplished!". What an idiot!

    Now, this huge list, I'm sure I've missed a heap of stuff out, has finally resulted in over 13,000 Iraqi civilians dead, over 1000 American service people dead. No WMD found, no ties to 9/11, no democracy.

    in the meantime, OBL is still free.

    And this is the most powerful nuclear-equipped military force on Earth.


    They're downright dangerous if you ask me.


    P.

  8. #8
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    Re: Americans are dangerously incompetent.

    Yes, yes, America is incredibly incompetent thats how we got to be the worlds only super power.

    After all incompetent people somehow alway create the greatest economies, militaries, etc.
    I typically cite original research papers and reviews that are available only to a personal or institutional subscriptional. If you wish a PDF copy of the papers I cite, send me a request.

  9. #9
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    Re: Americans are dangerously incompetent.

    I'm not sure if you're ridiculing the mentality of the "destroy islam" thread, or promoting it. If the latter, then you are just another hypocrite.

    The incompetence of Americans is often captured in the American phrase "We can put a man on the moon, but we can't do X..."

    You left out the funniest one, Pibs. We have the most technically sophisticated infrastructure, yet the key state in the 2000 election couldn't even figure out who they voted for.
    Its turtles, all the way down.

  10. #10
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    Re: Americans are dangerously incompetent.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zenstone
    You left out the funniest one, Pibs. We have the most technically sophisticated infrastructure, yet the key state in the 2000 election couldn't even figure out who they voted for.
    That is a funny one!

    I wonder if Pibs is calling George Bush the average John Q. American, if so, heh, you'd be surprised at how smart Americans are in comparison.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pibs
    US intelligence was incompetent and didn't know the attacks were coming.
    Actually, Intel. knew in August about an attack in a major city to happen soon in a major city. Pretty vague, but hey, they "tried" eh?
    "The essential act of war is destruction, not necessarily of human lives, but of the products of human labour. War is a way of shattering to pieces, or pouring into the stratosphere, or sinking in the depths of the sea, materials which might otherwise be used to make the masses too comfortable, and hence, in the long run, too intelligent." 1984, By George Orwell. Part 2: Chapter 9.

  11. #11
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    Re: Americans are dangerously incompetent.

    Pibs, I know you took insult from Spart's thread, but that's no reason to lash back with ridiculous assessments. First, the actions that you deem as incompetent were committed by the American government, not its people and this is not a direct democracy, so you can't say that the government is the people, so in that sense, America cannot be deemed incompetent by what you have given us.

    Secondly, although our government has flaws, it is not incompetent. Flaws in our intelligence have caused mistakes, and the Bush administration may have different motives than they conveyed to the populous, but that does not make them incompetent. OBL is intelligent dispite his group's ideology and he will not be easily captured. Your accusations do not prove the government's incompetence in any way. Our country is still functioning wonderfully. What you have done is created a false dichotomy: perfection or incompetence. Our government is neither and we as a people are neither, but we are quite able to function and more.

    Some flaws Complete incompetence
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  12. #12
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    Re: Americans are dangerously incompetent.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pibs
    I didn't say dumber, I said incompenent.

    Perhaps if you put other peeps in the hotseat they'd mess up just as bad?

    To suggest any of the stuff over the last couple of years was deliberate, is 'conspiracy theory', right?

    So that only leaves incompetence then.
    All americans, or the ones in charge with all the money?

    US intelligence was incompetent and didn't know the attacks were coming. Despite the fact that very day they were holding anti-hijacking exercises, involving hijacked airliners flown into government buildings. Rice herself stated that no-one could have guessed that airliners would be flown into government buildings - utterly incompetent.
    US intelligence had been hamstrung from years of higher-ups depending on electronic surveillance as opposed to human surveillance. Inability does not equal incompetence.

    US immigration let the terrorists in despite the fact their visa applications were incomplete. Incompetence again.
    Can't say I necessarily argue with you here.

    US airline security was so incompetent they allowed not one but FOUR different airliners all to be hijacked on the same day. One must have involved a bomb, cos the US airforce didn't shoot down flight 93, which came down in fragments over an 8 mile area. Utterly incompetent.
    Not incompetent, lax. Airline hijackings at the time of 9/11 were pretty much considered a thing of the past. Not seeing a gun in a carryon bag going through an xray machine is incompetence. Not EVER needing to look for utility knives, thus not highlighting them is being lax.


    When a Boing 757 'heavy' turned off it's transponder, ignored radio calls and changed course, no-one figured it had been hijacked. How's that for incompetence?
    Agree here too.

    That plane managed to evade the entire US airforce for over an hour - we're talking a lumbering 757 airliner, and flew straight over the (or very close to) the White House.

    The anti-aircraft missle batteries on the White House failed to go off. Incompetence again.

    It then flew at the Pentagon, still evading the utterly incompetent air defence system.

    In the meantime, the other hijacked airliners had a clear run at their target. Apart from the one that blew up with a bomb. Fighters launched actually headed away from the planes, or straight at them, depending who you believe. Either way, in this dire emergency the pilots couldn't find the throttles and they flew at a max speed of 20% of full power. Utterly incompetent.
    I can't claim to be able to speak intelligently about these claims one way or the other

    The WTC towers were specifically designed to withstand the impact and fire of a 707 strike - it was a built in feature. The 707 is the same size as a 757. Yet on the day, they plopped down like a controlled demolition. More incompetence.
    They were not 757s but 767s that flew into the WTC. A 767 is 201 ft long by 170ft wide
    http://www.boeing.com/commercial/767...technical.html

    The 707 is 128ft long and 130ft wide http://www.boeing.com/commercial/707family/product.html

    The 767 is significantly bigger, and carried much more fuel, as its range was nearly double that of the 707. Bigger plane, loaded with fuel, burns for an hour hotter than the steel can withstand. Thats why they fell.

    In the meantime, the Pentogon had almost an hour's warning of the approaching airliner yet again, the military command post itself could not get a fighter up in time to intercept before it reached heavily populated areas. How incompetent is that?

    They COULD have ordered up some from the nearby military airfield but noooo, they ordered some from one 110 miles away. Incompetent.

    The local airfield was also incompetent, for their website claimed they had suitable craft ready to blast into action at a moments notice, 24/7. Yet after 9/11 someone noticed so they altered their website, because obviously they didn't have such aircraft. Must have miscounted or summat. The Google cache remembered for some time though. Oops.

    Happily for the terrorists, the anti-aircraft missle batteries at the Pentagon also failed to fire. The incompetents probably forgot to load them or summat.

    Happily the pilot was equally hopeless and managed to hit the one part of the building that had just been strengthened and had hardly anyone in it. If it weren't for dumb luck the Pentagon could have been really damaged, due to mind-boggling incompetence.
    I didn't think Andrews AFB had fighters there. I could be wrong.

    Pretty much your entire article highlights alot of stuff that may or may not be true. Alot of it sounds like it came from Michael Moore's notebook. (not saying anything either way about that!)
    Also, can you blame ANYONE in the Pentagon chain of command for not wanting to shoot down an airliner, or even being slow about it? Before 9/11 this sort of thing was impossible to even think about. How can you make a decision like that when you don't really KNOW what is goin on in that plane? I agree, the first flight to hit the WTC hit almost an hour before Flight 77 hit the pentagon, but could you make a decision to shoot down that plane with your limited knowledge of what was happening on that aircraft? Not to mention the chaos of two other planes hitting the pentagon, and pandemonium with the thousands of planes that were still in the sky during that hour. You would single one out and shoot it down because it was headed for washington? There is a massive airport there, not uncommon for planes to land at one of those...
    We took risks. We knew we took them. Things have come out against us. We have no cause for complaint. Scott, found in his diary after the party froze in Antarctica

  13. #13
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    Re: Americans are dangerously incompetent.

    Slightly unrelated, but I would suggest that the reason the US became the worlds only superpower is because the other democratic ones fought themselves to destruction in the 2 world wars, and not explicitly through lack of incompetence, or choice for that matter.
    No free man shall be seized or imprisoned, or stripped of his rights or possessions, or outlawed or exiled, or deprived of his standing in any other way, nor will we proceed with force against him, or send others to do so, except by the lawful judgement of his equals or by the law of the land.
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  14. #14
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    Re: Americans are dangerously incompetent.

    I see. So America being a superpower is not a result of any acheivement or effort, but rather just the failure of others?
    -=]Apokalupsis[=-
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  15. #15
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    Re: Americans are dangerously incompetent.

    I see. So America being a superpower is not a result of any acheivement or effort, but rather just the failure of others?
    Thats right apok, 60 years later and nobody has caught us since. You'd think with us being so incompetent we would've screwed things up by now. Maybe we're just lucky....
    I typically cite original research papers and reviews that are available only to a personal or institutional subscriptional. If you wish a PDF copy of the papers I cite, send me a request.

  16. #16
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    Re: Americans are dangerously incompetent.

    Of course with the success we've had and being so incompetent it makes you wonder what the rest of the world is.....
    I typically cite original research papers and reviews that are available only to a personal or institutional subscriptional. If you wish a PDF copy of the papers I cite, send me a request.

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    Re: Americans are dangerously incompetent.

    Quote Originally Posted by Apokalupsis
    I see. So America being a superpower is not a result of any acheivement or effort, but rather just the failure of others?
    Well I wouldn't put it that way, but the US was dragged kicking and screaming from isolationalism into WW2, and emerged in 1945 a superpower by default. Failure is too harsh a word for the old European powers, WW2 is probably as close to Good vs Evil as wars come, and I think to sacrifice your empire for victory in that struggle is worthy and noble.
    No free man shall be seized or imprisoned, or stripped of his rights or possessions, or outlawed or exiled, or deprived of his standing in any other way, nor will we proceed with force against him, or send others to do so, except by the lawful judgement of his equals or by the law of the land.
    - The Magna Carta, 1225

  18. #18
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    Re: Americans are dangerously incompetent.

    Well I wouldn't put it that way, but the US was dragged kicking and screaming from isolationalism into WW2, and emerged in 1945 a superpower by default. Failure is too harsh a word for the old European powers, WW2 is probably as close to Good vs Evil as wars come, and I think to sacrifice your empire for victory in that struggle is worthy and noble.
    You do know that Russia was considered a super power up until the ending of the cold war, dont you? The US had competition and in the end we beat them out having a superior economy, thats incompetence.

    And of course lets not forget that in WW II we had to defeat Germany and Japan to become a superpower. If we are really incompetent then they should be the current powers, not them.

    Luckily our young men are far from incompetent, we showed how competent a generation raised with guns can be.
    I typically cite original research papers and reviews that are available only to a personal or institutional subscriptional. If you wish a PDF copy of the papers I cite, send me a request.

  19. #19
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    Re: Americans are dangerously incompetent.

    Quote Originally Posted by chadn737
    You do know that Russia was considered a super power up until the ending of the cold war, dont you? The US had competition and in the end we beat them out having a superior economy, thats incompetence.

    And of course lets not forget that in WW II we had to defeat Germany and Japan to become a superpower. If we are really incompetent then they should be the current powers, not them.

    Luckily our young men are far from incompetent, we showed how competent a generation raised with guns can be.
    You'll notice that in my first post I included the qualifier 'democratic'. The arms race clearly sped up the demise of the USSR, but the bottom line is that the people forced the change, much like is currently happening in China.

    In WW2 the Japanese never had any illusions about being able to defeat the US, and the USA defeated but a fraction of Germany's forces.

    By the way, I am not buying into this argument about Americans being especially incompetent in the slightest, I am just going off on a tangent regarding how the US came to be the only superpower.
    No free man shall be seized or imprisoned, or stripped of his rights or possessions, or outlawed or exiled, or deprived of his standing in any other way, nor will we proceed with force against him, or send others to do so, except by the lawful judgement of his equals or by the law of the land.
    - The Magna Carta, 1225

  20. #20
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    Re: Americans are dangerously incompetent.

    Yep, you're right about the 767, I was thinking of the plane that hit the Pentagon.

    Fact remains, engineers disagree that the chocking, low temp' fire had a hope of destroying the steel infrastructure of a building designed for a multi-floor fire after a major inpact.

    Like I said, steel-framed buildings simply don't fall down after fire - unless the building design is very incompetent indeed..

    Now, I appreciate the post was a lot to take in but what the heck is this:

    "Before 9/11 this sort of thing was impossible to even think about."

    Hello? read the post again.

    They were carrying out military training that day to cover the situation of hijacked airliners being flown into government buildings.

    This was not the first time such training had taken place.

    To suggest it was impossible to "even think about" is ludicrous, it was planned for, expected, they had already been warned, it was the plot of movies and books, Rice KNEW this and lied.

    Or maybe she's just really incompetent?

    By the way, "lax", hopeless, incompetent, take ya pick.

    You see, you can be a offended as you like, but in reality I don't believe the US government is really that incompetent.

    I don't buy it for one minute.

    But dangerous? Hell yes. And not just to us "islams" either, think "draft".



    P.

 

 
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