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Thread: Is This Racism?

  1. #1
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    Is This Racism?

    I came across this great little artical tonight. It was an email - one I never received, but one I certainly agree with. I wonder if you all feel the same.

    Here is the email:


    Proud To Be White

    Someone finally said it.
    How many are actually paying attention to this?

    There are African Americans, Mexican Americans,
    Asian Americans, Arab Americans, etc.
    And then there are just Americans.

    You pass me on the street and sneer in my direction.
    You Call me 'White boy,' 'Cracker,' 'Honkey,'
    'Whitey,' 'Caveman' ... and that's OK.

    But when I call you, ******, Kike, Towel head,
    Sand-******, Camel Jockey, Beaner, Gook, or Chink ...
    You call me a racist.

    You say that whites commit a lot of violence against you,
    so why are the ghettos the most dangerous places to live?

    You have the United Negro College Fund.
    You have Martin Luther King Day.
    You have Black History Month.
    You have Cesar Chavez Day.
    You have Yom Hashoah.
    You have Ma'uled Al-Nabi.
    You have the NAACP.
    You have BET.
    If we had WET (White Entertainment Television) we'd be racists.
    If we had a White Pride Day, you would call us racists.
    If we had White History Month , we'd be racists.
    If we had any organization for only whites to 'advance'
    OUR lives we'd be racists.

    We have a Hispanic Chamber of Commerce, a Black Chamber
    of Commerce, and then we just have the plain Chamber of Commerce.
    Wonder who pays for that?


    A white woman could not be in the Miss Black American
    pageant, but any color can be in the Miss America pageant.


    If we had a college fund that only gave white students
    scholarships you know we'd be racists.
    There are over 60 openly proclaimed Black Colleges
    in the US. Yet if there were 'White colleges' THAT
    would be a racist college.


    In the Million Man March, you believed that you were
    marching for your race and rights. If we marched for
    our race and rights, you would call us racists.

    You are proud to be black, brown, yellow and orange, and
    you're not afraid to announce it. But when we announce
    our white pride, you call us racists.

    You rob us, carjack us, and shoot at us. But, when a
    white police officer shoots a black gang member or beats
    up a black drug-dealer running from the law and posing a
    threat to society, you call him a racist.

    I am proud.
    But you call me a racist.

    Why is it that only whites can be racists?
    I don't agree with all points made here - the Black History/White History month, for one. Every month is white history month, only one month is dedicated to black history.
    Black colleges...I never knew there were colleges just for blacks in America - isn't this a kind of segregation? Why complain about being segregated in the past when people can choose to be segregated? Doesn't make sense to me.

    The Miss America Pageant is another one, another example of choice segregation, and again, I was not aware there was a separate Pageant for black women.

    Not sure if there was already a thread on this, sorry if there was, but I thought this was rather interesting, and was wondering what you all think - I imagine most of you have seen it before.
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    Re: Is This Racism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tarja Turunen View Post
    I came across this great little artical tonight. It was an email - one I never received, but one I certainly agree with. I wonder if you all feel the same.

    Here is the email:




    I don't agree with all points made here - the Black History/White History month, for one. Every month is white history month, only one month is dedicated to black history.
    Black colleges...I never knew there were colleges just for blacks in America - isn't this a kind of segregation? Why complain about being segregated in the past when people can choose to be segregated? Doesn't make sense to me.

    The Miss America Pageant is another one, another example of choice segregation, and again, I was not aware there was a separate Pageant for black women.

    Not sure if there was already a thread on this, sorry if there was, but I thought this was rather interesting, and was wondering what you all think - I imagine most of you have seen it before.
    I'm a white South African, my Great Grandfather's nephew was the very first Prime Minister of South Africa, he was also the one who wrote the Seperate Development Act into law (Later named "Apartheid" by Verwoerd), I'm an ex-cop from the Apartheids era and NO I do not support the communist government of the current "New" South Africa.

    Viewing the aforementioned one would imagine reading "I am a racist" would only seem natural? Wrong. I am not, but..... should I ever dare to echo the sentiments of the e-mail writer, I most certainly will be labelled as such.

    It is rather sad that certain groups need to find identity in activity, worth in belonging, and recognition through titles. I can not respect people like that, I have no time for them, and I prefer not being around them. Because they are black? No, because the "pity me please I'm black" metality is repulsive, the "I demand, because I'm previously disadvantaged" mantra is destructive and getting old, the "black movement/order/barr" is exclusive and defeating the very democracy they "struggled" for. Amazing how democracy was faught for and dicrimination faught against, only to be applied in reverse once the opportunity arrose. I find that rather pathetic.

    I am who I am and proud of what I am. I am white, so what? Sue me.
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    Re: Is This Racism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tarja Turunen View Post
    [FONT="Comic Sans MS"]I don't agree with all points made here - the Black History/White History month, for one. Every month is white history month, only one month is dedicated to black history.
    Is every month White History month? Care to support that claim for me Tarja?

    I feel pretty much the same way as Charon on this issue and I think many white South Africans feel that way right now.

    If I can remember correctly they even now after more than 13 years of democracy want to force white children of ages 10 or less to ask forgiveness for apartheid in a morning ritual in schools. These children were not even part of apartheid, but now they have to pay for it as well? It is time people should get over the colour of their skins and start to take responsibility for their actions and not to blame it on discrimination or apartheid or whatever racist excuse they can come up with.

    I am white yes, and if that is a sin, so be it. I couldn't care less if someone calls me a racist because I KNOW I am not a racist.
    >>]Aspoestertjie[<<

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    Re: Is This Racism?

    I think that is the dumbest email. Ever... Ever.

    Tbh I cant be bothered to brake each and every point made in the email down.

    Most of the things brought up, are out of choice. There could be a Miss white America etc. To say people would be called racist for this is absurd. There is a Miss black america. How would black people call white people racist if they have there own beauty pageant.

    Absoloutly ridiculous. It sounded to me like it was written by a ignorant white person.


    ...Oh no am I racist now, because i said ignorant white person
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    Re: Is This Racism?

    I'm not a believer in Affirmative Action as a government mandate, but I have no problem with minorities having organizations to better members of their own group. Why should I be angry because blacks are helping send blacks to college?

    I think sentiments like those expressed in the chain email you posted are the result of frustration. As a white man I can tell you that sometimes with all of these organizations out there, and with people like Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton, I sometimes wonder if minorities will ever just see whites as people, rather than the cause of their real or imagined sufferings.

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    Re: Is This Racism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Swindall View Post
    I think that is the dumbest email. Ever... Ever.

    Tbh I cant be bothered to brake each and every point made in the email down.

    Most of the things brought up, are out of choice. There could be a Miss white America etc. To say people would be called racist for this is absurd. There is a Miss black america. How would black people call white people racist if they have there own beauty pageant.

    Absoloutly ridiculous. It sounded to me like it was written by a ignorant white person.


    ...Oh no am I racist now, because i said ignorant white person
    No, you're not a racist. You are just an ignorant ....... person.
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    Re: Is This Racism?

    Guys, this isn't that complicated.

    Whenever anyone says "white pride" (or the like), Americans instantly think of the Ku Klux Klan. If anyone wanted to have an event or group specifically for whites, they'd have to spend considerable time and energy managing this perception and explaining that they're not racist.

    Furthermore, due to slavery in the US, most blacks have absolutely no hope of tracing their ancestry and even if they could, Africa is a far different place now than it was at the time of slavery. Tribes have been moved around and made part of nations. etc. On the other hand, most whites are able to trace their heritage and we see plenty of white ethnic festivals. For example, I just visited my city's Greek Festival not long ago. There's also an Italian festival. These groups and organizations celebrate a white ethnicity and no one bats an eyelash.

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    Re: Is This Racism?

    As conservative and white (Its true) as I might be, I am all for the Miss Black America, BET, traditionally black colleges and other things that Caucasian parallels of would seem racist. I think that if you look at festivals (Greek, Italian) such as Zhavric just talked about they describe the ethnicity of a group, and since there is no discernible country of origin for (I'm guessing) 99% of blacks in America, they are lumped into a single ethnic group that makes up about 13% of the US's population. This is far larger than any ethnicity whites could claim. Of course, you could make the argument that Italians or Irish ancestry is the largest in the US but then you'd be speaking of only a portion of the white populous' ethnic whole. Take me for example: I'm primarily Irish however, I do have German, Lithuanian, and Native American in my make up. This puts me in a slightly more complex ethnic identity situation than your average black American. And most white Americans are in the same category as me in having several "loyalties" to different back rounds. Identity and the ease at which blacks can relate to one another because of a single ethnic group is the primary reason for these institutions. Furthermore, I'm willing to bet money that as the Latino population grows in the US even more so, you'll see the same thing being as they seem to have been given a singular title too.
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    Re: Is This Racism?

    I think someone who states most of these things, is ignorant and frustrated at a perceived injustice with little look at the historical context and the social implications that they hold today. Well...with the exception of this line

    There are African Americans, Mexican Americans,
    Asian Americans, Arab Americans, etc.
    And then there are just Americans.
    So what does that make that "others" in this section? It vaguely sounds white nationalist....but that could also be that I've heard this language similarly on white nationalist sites (I have an absurd curiosity about different people and prefer to learn first hand).

    On to a couple of other points that bother me more than the rest.
    You rob us, carjack us, and shoot at us. But, when a
    white police officer shoots a black gang member or beats
    up a black drug-dealer running from the law and posing a
    threat to society, you call him a racist.
    This is ridiculous. The cases that people have a problem with are the ones where it appears the police strongly over reacted...like the guy who had just got married. If they're talking about what spurred the riot of 93 that is called bad journalism, showing only a piece of the case and giving no context.

    You are proud to be black, brown, yellow and orange, and
    you're not afraid to announce it. But when we announce
    our white pride, you call us racists.
    Not necessarily so...it depends in what context they give it in. Often it's given in the theme of I'm proud of being white and look at what's wrong with this or that brown population. Other times it's given in the celebration of their euro-mutt heritage...while still enjoy pieces of other people's culture as well. The latter I wouldn't be considered racist. This is especially so when people specify like saying pride in being Irish, german, italian, etc. Pride in being white may still come off uncomfortable because they're top dog and have been for ages...they've often been the largest form of discrimination among minority communities of all types.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tarja Turunen View Post
    [FONT="Comic Sans MS"]
    Black colleges...I never knew there were colleges just for blacks in America - isn't this a kind of segregation? Why complain about being segregated in the past when people can choose to be segregated? Doesn't make sense to me.
    Because these colleges are not neccesaarily all black schools. They are historical black colleges start pre-1960's to serve the black community and simply haven't died out. Some of them aren't even majority black anymore. They don't accept strictly black students, but many of them attract black students due to their history.

    The Miss America Pageant is another one, another example of choice segregation, and again, I was not aware there was a separate Pageant for black women.
    It's not that popular and was started moreso to protest the lack of black women in the Miss America contest. It's stayed as a means to celebrate and recognize black women's beauty, which is still underrepresented.


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    BD
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    Re: Is This Racism?

    Interesting responses from you all. I didn't think I would get any, lol!

    Aspo, I can't prove that every month is White History month, but what I mean in saying that is that every day is not dedicated to learning about black history and only one month for white history. If you need a 'Black History' month, then that says to me that for eleven months of the year, you are taught about white history - or what would be the reason for a black history month?

    About people (children) being made to beg forgivness for apartheid - I don't agree, eithor. They were not a part of it, so why should they have to say sorry. I could compare this to our nations apology to the Aboriginals and the so called 'Stolen Generation'. Our Prime Minister apologised on behalf of all Australians for things that happened before he himself was even born. If they were treated wrongly, then obviously I am sorry for that, but why should I be expected to say sorry for something I was not responsible for?

    BD, about 'pride' you said:
    Not necessarily so...it depends in what context they give it in.
    If black people staged a Black Pride Parade, I would not consider this racist - provided whites were also able to have a White Pride Parade. Fair is fair, after all.
    If the KKK marched down the street in celebration of their whiteness, I am sure people would label them racist - simply being members of the KKK, and not because they may happen to be proud of their skin color.
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    Re: Is This Racism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Charon View Post
    No, you're not a racist. You are just an ignorant ....... person.
    .....

    Please tell, What makes me ignorant?
    .::The Swindall::.

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    Re: Is This Racism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Swindall View Post
    .....

    Please tell, What makes me ignorant?
    Tell you what. Go stand it the street with a notice that says "Join White People's Party >Here<"

    If you are not called a racist within 1 hour I'll apologise for calling you ignorant. Until then: You are.
    There's a racket in hell, and there's a boat on the river.

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    Re: Is This Racism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Charon View Post
    Tell you what. Go stand it the street with a notice that says "Join White People's Party >Here<"

    If you are not called a racist within 1 hour I'll apologise for calling you ignorant. Until then: You are.
    Charon I think it depends on where you live.

    If you for instance will try it where you live, I can guarantee you that you might get a bullet between the eyes before you know it. That is just the kind of world we are living in right now.

    But that doesn't mean it will happen where Swindall lives. The geographical location plays a big role. I am sure there will be cities and states in America where you will be able to do such a thing without being called a racist, and if any American feels I am wrong, please correct me.

    Lets face it, both of us live in a country where whites are the minority and whites have a nasty history of apartheid, so in one way we both will expect to be called racists when doing something like that. We also value our lives way too much to do such a stupid thing.
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    Re: Is This Racism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Swindall View Post
    I think that is the dumbest email. Ever... Ever.

    Tbh I cant be bothered to brake each and every point made in the email down.

    Most of the things brought up, are out of choice. There could be a Miss white America etc. To say people would be called racist for this is absurd. There is a Miss black america. How would black people call white people racist if they have there own beauty pageant.

    Absoloutly ridiculous. It sounded to me like it was written by a ignorant white person.


    ...Oh no am I racist now, because i said ignorant white person
    Well, looking at this and then:

    Quote Originally Posted by Zhavric View Post
    Guys, this isn't that complicated.

    Whenever anyone says "white pride" (or the like), Americans instantly think of the Ku Klux Klan. If anyone wanted to have an event or group specifically for whites, they'd have to spend considerable time and energy managing this perception and explaining that they're not racist.

    Furthermore, due to slavery in the US, most blacks have absolutely no hope of tracing their ancestry and even if they could, Africa is a far different place now than it was at the time of slavery. Tribes have been moved around and made part of nations. etc. On the other hand, most whites are able to trace their heritage and we see plenty of white ethnic festivals. For example, I just visited my city's Greek Festival not long ago. There's also an Italian festival. These groups and organizations celebrate a white ethnicity and no one bats an eyelash.

    I don't think it's that simple, to be honest. Racism has thrown itself around in such an odd way in America --I can't speak for the rest of the world.


    I mean, it really isn't as simple as "Look, there's Italian and Greek festivals, therefore white people can do whatever they want."

    Nor do I think it's as simple as "Look, there's Black Miss America which white people can't join, so white people cannot do whatever they want and there's inverse discrimination."




    One, racism has been against Irish and Italians. My grandfather born in a Pennsylvanian town were Italian were NOT liked, amongst African-descendants and other groups. The Irish were HATED from the late 1800's until probably 50 years ago. It's not as simple as "Oh, these people are white, and we're just like them." Racists hated these folks, too. I think the fact their skin color is like ours that it has made it easier for them to assimilate and become a part of America and that past racism to be ignored, but they still faced it.

    Now with that said, I think those festivals did exist as a way to bring their communities together and to keep a part of their heritage alive. But to be certain, whites have had less of a problem with those festivals than say one that would involve African-descendants, Arab-descendants, and other controversial groups in America.


    Now, I do think that part of the fault still does lie within the African-American community. They seem to purposefully segregate themselves from almost all other groups, which includes Caucasians. I don't think it is necessarily specifically that they don't like white people --though, I know that some don't.



    You know, during the whole scandal over Obama's preacher last March, I really didn't find that surprising. It's really hard to give up hate, whether it's towards a person you abhor or a people who've wronged you. When the majority of your life --especially when it also contains your earliest childhood memories-- is about a group of people who actively subverted your people and actively antagonized you and your people... Well, it sheds a different light on Malcolm X. Can you honestly say that if you lived in a society where a group of people actively oppressed --by means of force including murder, rape, segregation, and thievery-- your families, loved ones, mothers and fathers, grandparents and uncles and aunts, that you would honestly not be tempted to take a gun into your arms and fight for them? Can you honestly envision walking into a store, only to be told to "get the hell out, [cracker], before we MAKE you get out" because you're thirsty and wanted a drink after a midday stroll? Can you imagine having an aunt that was raped just.. well, because? Or a cousin of six years old who was tied to a tree and shot through the mouth with a shotgun? Or a cousin who was beat to death for looking at a white woman the wrong way?


    These were not uncommon occurrences. These did not stop happening a century ago, but a few decades ago. So no, I was not surprised that there are still black people who are salty over the incidents of the past.


    The important thing, and incidentally one of the things I respect Obama most for understanding, is that we as a people need to let go of all of it. There is never going to be anything good done out of claiming Palin's dumb conservative rhetoric is actually dumb, racist rhetoric. Nothing gets done by claiming that Obama is only liked because he's black.

    I deplore people who make these comments --liberal, conservative, libertarian, or otherwise.

    It is comments like these that destroy the heart of what so many great people --black, white, brown, whatever-- have attempted to do.


    Now with that said, I do think that a great deal of racism has been eliminated. I think that a lot of what people view as "racism" can be put under two different categories, the first is under how people are taught to interact and the second is under what white people see as favoritism.


    My high school was one of the most racially intermixed schools in Ohio. There was always racial tensions in the school. White people more or less sat with white people during lunch, and black people sat with black people during lunch. You know, I was talking to one of my black friends Freshmen year, and he mentioned that. Not until much later did I really give it some thought. I suspect that we do these types of things just because we seek out people who're similar to us. White people who talk with a mid-Western American ascent are appealing to others like them because that's the type of people they've always talked to, and they know what to expect when talking to them. Frequently, when I was with my black friends, it felt like I was in a completely different culture. And that's because it really was. Black people seek out other black people because they belong to that culture, and it is comfortable for them and that is what they are used to. To many white people, this looks like they just aren't willing to try to become integrated, but assimilating into a different culture in order to get things done is always a difficult thing.

    The second thing that people see as racism is Affirmative Action. White people see this as reverse discrimination and black people think this is just a way to get a boost from troubled history. In truth, both are correct assessments. My father would probably have owned his own company if he could have gotten a government contract; instead it went to a more "racially integrated" company. And, that company screwed up and the Cleveland government had to outsource that job to be done twice to make sure the first company was doing it right the first time, then it finally got completely outsourced. To white people, stories like this are very disheartening. The thing I think some black people miss out on is that there is no magic "You white, you got a good job" factor. White people really don't have a magic ability to get jobs; when things like this happen, they lose out, too. I think that the existence of AA makes white people automatically question if a black person's acceptance into a job or access to a government contract is really a legitimate one. It makes some white people have automatically low expectations for minorities.


    What's the truth about racism and if America will ever get better? Honestly, I don't think anyone knows. But if anything, we can be sure that it is not a 'simple' thing.
    "Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities." --Voltaire

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    Re: Is This Racism?

    Quote Originally Posted by GoldPhoenix View Post
    Well, looking at this and then:




    I don't think it's that simple, to be honest. Racism has thrown itself around in such an odd way in America --I can't speak for the rest of the world.


    I mean, it really isn't as simple as "Look, there's Italian and Greek festivals, therefore white people can do whatever they want."

    Nor do I think it's as simple as "Look, there's Black Miss America which white people can't join, so white people cannot do whatever they want and there's inverse discrimination."




    One, racism has been against Irish and Italians. My grandfather born in a Pennsylvanian town were Italian were NOT liked, amongst African-descendants and other groups. The Irish were HATED from the late 1800's until probably 50 years ago. It's not as simple as "Oh, these people are white, and we're just like them." Racists hated these folks, too. I think the fact their skin color is like ours that it has made it easier for them to assimilate and become a part of America and that past racism to be ignored, but they still faced it.

    Now with that said, I think those festivals did exist as a way to bring their communities together and to keep a part of their heritage alive. But to be certain, whites have had less of a problem with those festivals than say one that would involve African-descendants, Arab-descendants, and other controversial groups in America.


    Now, I do think that part of the fault still does lie within the African-American community. They seem to purposefully segregate themselves from almost all other groups, which includes Caucasians. I don't think it is necessarily specifically that they don't like white people --though, I know that some don't.



    You know, during the whole scandal over Obama's preacher last March, I really didn't find that surprising. It's really hard to give up hate, whether it's towards a person you abhor or a people who've wronged you. When the majority of your life --especially when it also contains your earliest childhood memories-- is about a group of people who actively subverted your people and actively antagonized you and your people... Well, it sheds a different light on Malcolm X. Can you honestly say that if you lived in a society where a group of people actively oppressed --by means of force including murder, rape, segregation, and thievery-- your families, loved ones, mothers and fathers, grandparents and uncles and aunts, that you would honestly not be tempted to take a gun into your arms and fight for them? Can you honestly envision walking into a store, only to be told to "get the hell out, [cracker], before we MAKE you get out" because you're thirsty and wanted a drink after a midday stroll? Can you imagine having an aunt that was raped just.. well, because? Or a cousin of six years old who was tied to a tree and shot through the mouth with a shotgun? Or a cousin who was beat to death for looking at a white woman the wrong way?


    These were not uncommon occurrences. These did not stop happening a century ago, but a few decades ago. So no, I was not surprised that there are still black people who are salty over the incidents of the past.


    The important thing, and incidentally one of the things I respect Obama most for understanding, is that we as a people need to let go of all of it. There is never going to be anything good done out of claiming Palin's dumb conservative rhetoric is actually dumb, racist rhetoric. Nothing gets done by claiming that Obama is only liked because he's black.

    I deplore people who make these comments --liberal, conservative, libertarian, or otherwise.

    It is comments like these that destroy the heart of what so many great people --black, white, brown, whatever-- have attempted to do.


    Now with that said, I do think that a great deal of racism has been eliminated. I think that a lot of what people view as "racism" can be put under two different categories, the first is under how people are taught to interact and the second is under what white people see as favoritism.


    My high school was one of the most racially intermixed schools in Ohio. There was always racial tensions in the school. White people more or less sat with white people during lunch, and black people sat with black people during lunch. You know, I was talking to one of my black friends Freshmen year, and he mentioned that. Not until much later did I really give it some thought. I suspect that we do these types of things just because we seek out people who're similar to us. White people who talk with a mid-Western American ascent are appealing to others like them because that's the type of people they've always talked to, and they know what to expect when talking to them. Frequently, when I was with my black friends, it felt like I was in a completely different culture. And that's because it really was. Black people seek out other black people because they belong to that culture, and it is comfortable for them and that is what they are used to. To many white people, this looks like they just aren't willing to try to become integrated, but assimilating into a different culture in order to get things done is always a difficult thing.

    The second thing that people see as racism is Affirmative Action. White people see this as reverse discrimination and black people think this is just a way to get a boost from troubled history. In truth, both are correct assessments. My father would probably have owned his own company if he could have gotten a government contract; instead it went to a more "racially integrated" company. And, that company screwed up and the Cleveland government had to outsource that job to be done twice to make sure the first company was doing it right the first time, then it finally got completely outsourced. To white people, stories like this are very disheartening. The thing I think some black people miss out on is that there is no magic "You white, you got a good job" factor. White people really don't have a magic ability to get jobs; when things like this happen, they lose out, too. I think that the existence of AA makes white people automatically question if a black person's acceptance into a job or access to a government contract is really a legitimate one. It makes some white people have automatically low expectations for minorities.


    What's the truth about racism and if America will ever get better? Honestly, I don't think anyone knows. But if anything, we can be sure that it is not a 'simple' thing.
    I found myself agreeing with your general premise, then I took a step back and looked at my own ancestry. To be sure, I had relatives who held animosity towards their oppressors. I don't know if hate or fear was a better description for how they felt. My grandmother had an intense hatred towards her former homeland for what she perceived they had done. Here's the thing. You don't see Jews in Poland and Germany provoking some sort of liberation theology and invoking hatred as a source of inspiration. The Jews who fled Germany, Poland, and Russia didn't sulk and bring about some culture of self-pity. They came to America and other places, spent time living in ghettos, working, getting educated, and eventually earning a place in American society. No one welcomed them with open arms. People, just like the Irish and Italians before them, wished they'd go back home. Black people are free to hide in thier churches. Hide behind their vitriolic leaders who make excuses for their ineptitude. Hide behind the past. How does that secure their future? How does that improve their lives. Frankly, I used to get bent about the fact that a channel could be called BET, but that there was not CET (Caucasian ...). More recently, I find the black culture's need for such things sophomoric and sad. BET, Miss Black American, Black Music Awards, et al. are sort of the Para-Olympics of American society, just like all the other sub-genre award shows and media outlets. Its sad that they don't feel they can compete against the mainstream. Its sad that they don't have faith that their music, their beauty, their comedy, et al. can stand on its own merit. Maybe someday. In other words, racism is a problem for the black community to overcome on its own terms. I think, most of the rest of America is pretty much over it. We're ready to accept them into the fold whenever they are willing to be accepted. That, though, is gonna take some sacrifice on their part. Just like the other cultures who assimilated successfully into American culture had to adapt, so too will black Americans. Their language. Their culture. Their socialization. All will have to adapt into the mainstream. It isn't up to the majority to accept the dreadlocks, corn rows, baggy pants, ebonics, and tribal aspects of the black culture. It is up to the minority to figure out what the majority will and won't tolerate and adapt accordingly. Its that simple. Just as Jews, Irish, and Italians had to make sacrifices to their own culture. Imagine the puzzlement when my mother asked my grandmother to let her remove her earrings (or put them in). I cannot remember. In any case, one was a cultural norm for East-European Jews, and made them stand out. So, blacks can live in the past, or embrace the future. Either way, I just don't care anymore.
    The U.S. is currently enduring a zombie apocalypse. However, in a strange twist, the zombie's are starving.

  16. #16
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    Re: Is This Racism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tarja Turunen View Post

    If black people staged a Black Pride Parade, I would not consider this racist - provided whites were also able to have a White Pride Parade. Fair is fair, after all.
    If the KKK marched down the street in celebration of their whiteness, I am sure people would label them racist - simply being members of the KKK, and not because they may happen to be proud of their skin color.
    That's because they're the KKK...you'd have a hard time convincing me they're not racist. And they still do at times have parades though few like them in any shape or form. No one will bat an eye if we have an irish parade. The difference I see is a difference in pride...with one it's a pride in heritage and in the other (KKK sort of thing) it's a pride in being white and in a social structure. With the one any person who has irish heritage could participate as I'd assume the same would be of someone part black.


    I'll probably say more later, but it's late.
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    BD
    We do not see things as they are, we see things as we are.

  17. #17
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    Re: Is This Racism?

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueDreams View Post
    That's because they're the KKK...you'd have a hard time convincing me they're not racist. And they still do at times have parades though few like them in any shape or form. No one will bat an eye if we have an irish parade. The difference I see is a difference in pride...with one it's a pride in heritage and in the other (KKK sort of thing) it's a pride in being white and in a social structure. With the one any person who has irish heritage could participate as I'd assume the same would be of someone part black.
    I can understand that they will be called racists because of their history, they are like the AWB (Afrikaners Weerstand Beweging) in South Africa.

    But what if you replace the KKK with a name like "The White Pride Party", will you consider it racist if there is a "The Black Pride Paty" as well?
    >>]Aspoestertjie[<<

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  18. #18
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    Re: Is This Racism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aspoestertjie View Post
    I can understand that they will be called racists because of their history, they are like the AWB (Afrikaners Weerstand Beweging) in South Africa.

    But what if you replace the KKK with a name like "The White Pride Party", will you consider it racist if there is a "The Black Pride Paty" as well?

    Did you mean Party in more in line with celebration or parade...or close to political party. In reality I would probably be immediately more suspicious of the white pride being racist simply because the line is very often associated with movements that are definitely racist. I'd be hard pressed to find on that wasn't. Black pride ones could be fairly split on that one...there are ones that I would consider racist and ones that I wouldn't. Hypothetically the litmus test for me is if I would be comfortable being in either one of those festivities. If I were in some hypothetical eruo-decent fest, would I be welcome into the festivities. Similarly, if I was at the afro-decent fest, would I be comfortable there and what the speakers were saying. The focus would be what the message behind it. For the white one, is it a celebration of heritage or there other undertones and mesages behind it. For the black one, it's similar....is it a celebration of heritage, history, and/or helping to build up the people or one that adds to seperation and denigration of other groups.


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    Re: Is This Racism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Charon View Post
    Tell you what. Go stand it the street with a notice that says "Join White People's Party >Here<"

    If you are not called a racist within 1 hour I'll apologise for calling you ignorant. Until then: You are.
    Tell you what. Why dont you, think before you type.

    The British National Party (BNP) is a far-right and whites only political party in the United Kingdom. It claims to have around 100 councillors in local government in England (including parish councillors) - although the BBC estimates only 58 at May 2008, some of whom appear to have split from the main party.

    According to its constitution, the BNP is "committed to stemming and reversing the tide of non-white immigration and to restoring, by legal changes, negotiation and consent the overwhelmingly white makeup of the British population that existed in Britain prior to 1948."[19] The BNP also proposes "firm but voluntary incentives for immigrants and their descendants to return home."[20]
    This party is allowed to be.

    My point is I would call them racist, however it is obvious that they are not seen to be racist by the majority otherwise they wouldnt be allowed to do what they do. So they can hold up signs saying 'JOIN WHITE PEOPLE'S PARTY HERE'.

    (This was just backing up what Aspo said about YOU do not what it is like HERE, where i am)

    The email was written by a ignorant person. If you do not see that, then you are ignorant also. BlueDreams basically broke every point down already.
    .::The Swindall::.

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  20. #20
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    Re: Is This Racism?

    hmm. it honestly depends on how you define racism in actuality if I said for instance, that I liked pepsi over coke I would technically be a racist or someone of prejudice. Where do you draw the line exactly?

    I guess it would depend on the individuals perspective rather than societal norms. I do agree that we "the white" populus are rather treated harshly for any random acts of racism more than the minority races or just in general people who are not european caucasians.

    However, the real reason is that they have not forgiven us yet for the harsh injustices we have done in the past such as lynching african americans, conscripting the Chinese and so on. So really it is the case of trust, they do not feel we have outgrown our ancestors racist and violent ways and by not trusting us it allows them to keep control of the situation.

    Truly the minority is scared because they feel if it happened once it could happen again, plus we havent truly strived that far to saying were sorry. There still hasn't been a non-white president of america or canada, and you could scoff and say so what? but in truth the real reason why the caucasian race is being harshly dealt with in concerns with racism is because "we" feel guilty and feel submitting to them is a way to make up for all the years of hatrid, but unfortunately because we do this to ourselves we have grown silent and totally submissive. Now the minority has grown to an exponential rate and gains more power and influence each day and we are terrified that if they do gain total power that they may go looking for revenge and segregate the white populus. It is a justifiable revenge in some peoples eyes, but not in mine considering I should not be responsible for what my ancestors did. Is there still a lot of racism in the world directed towards black people, chinese, hispanic etc. I would say yes, but not nearly as much as there used to be. So to answer to your email Tarja I would say yes it is racism, but many points seem valid and even fair, but the overall message displays a certain bitterness or anger in the way its presented. The sarcasm does not help either haha.

 

 
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