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Thread: Child Erotica

  1. #1
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    Child Erotica

    We all know that if someone finds child porn on your computer, you're doomed.

    But

    I recently discovered the weird and sometimes wonderful world of "child erotica". The difference between child porn and child erotica is that the latter is legal because the law doesn't consider the child "harmed". Examples include nude photographs of 10yo girls for art's sake, without sexual suggestion, or those creepy stories written by middle-aged men who describe how they do the nasty to their 7yo sons every night (with disclaimers). A newer example of this is videos of virtual children having sex with adults. The virtual child is not real and cannot be harmed.

    Most of this stuff doesn't float my boat. Child erotica is more entertaining than arousing, and I just believe that certain artistic expressions can only be fully captured by kids. I am not a pedophile because I'm not looking at the material for sexual pleasure.

    So does anyone think child erotica should be illegal?
    DITTA ARTIGIANA BUDRIO / F.MENAGLIO

  2. #2
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    Re: Child Erotica

    I don't think it should be illegal unless it is demonstrated that allowing child erotica encourages/increases predatory behaviour on real children (which might be possible). In fact, child erotica might even be overall beneficial for society if it diverts paedophiles from preying on real children.
    Trendem

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    Re: Child Erotica

    Quote Originally Posted by Whistlepig View Post
    Child erotica is more entertaining than arousing, and I just believe that certain artistic expressions can only be fully captured by kids. I am not a pedophile because I'm not looking at the material for sexual pleasure.

    So does anyone think child erotica should be illegal?
    I don't believe it should be illegal because as you describe it, there is no real victim here. That being said, if you're not looking at child erotica for sexual pleasure, what exactly are you looking at it for? I'm not buying the "artistic expression" line one bit.
    "Today a young man on acid realized that all matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration, that we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively. There is no such thing as death, life is only a dream, and we're the imagination of ourselves." --Bill Hicks

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    Re: Child Erotica

    I'm sorry, but I agree with Thrashee on this one. What in the hell are you looking at it for?
    "Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities." --Voltaire

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    Re: Child Erotica

    Quote Originally Posted by thrashee View Post
    I don't believe it should be illegal because as you describe it, there is no real victim here. That being said, if you're not looking at child erotica for sexual pleasure, what exactly are you looking at it for? I'm not buying the "artistic expression" line one bit.
    Explaining this infatuation to an outsider is like explaining why durian tastes good. You either believe it or you don't, and I'm not even completely sure why I believe it either. Maybe I am subconsciously a depraved pervert, but I think it has more to do with yearning for the ideal of purity. I don't really like little girls, I like the idea of little girls. Real children are brats, and not nearly as innocent as portrayed in most child erotica.

    I doubt that any statitic on who is or who isn't a pedophile could be trusted.
    DITTA ARTIGIANA BUDRIO / F.MENAGLIO

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    Re: Child Erotica

    Stay on topic, guys. Why Whistlepig views child erotica is not the issue here, and if you want to know more, take it to PM. Further discussion on that issue will result in this thread being locked.
    Trendem

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    Re: Child Erotica

    I'm sure I'll have to shower after writing this, but...

    As sick and depraved as it is, and even though I beleive that it may be a "gateway" into other illegal actions, it should not be illegal. (ick, I feel dirty even saying that)

    If it is made illegal, what's next? Making role playing between adults illegal? How long will it be before the technology is available to read thoughts? (actually it's partially here now http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,426485,00.html)

    I'm heading to the shower with some turpentine and steel wool now...

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    Re: Child Erotica

    Quote Originally Posted by Trendem View Post
    Stay on topic, guys. Why Whistlepig views child erotica is not the issue here, and if you want to know more, take it to PM. Further discussion on that issue will result in this thread being locked.
    In all fairness, Trendem, the topic is child erotica: I believe discussing whether that very thing is motivated by sexual desire versus artistic appreciation is quite valid. I did not, however, mean to personally attack Whistlepig's own motivations. Can we discuss in a more general sense how erotica by nature might be enjoyed sans any sexual need or desires?
    "Today a young man on acid realized that all matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration, that we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively. There is no such thing as death, life is only a dream, and we're the imagination of ourselves." --Bill Hicks

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    Re: Child Erotica

    Quote Originally Posted by thrashee View Post
    In all fairness, Trendem, the topic is child erotica: I believe discussing whether that very thing is motivated by sexual desire versus artistic appreciation is quite valid. I did not, however, mean to personally attack Whistlepig's own motivations. Can we discuss in a more general sense how erotica by nature might be enjoyed sans any sexual need or desires?
    The thread asks a very specific question: Should child erotica be banned. If your discussion is relevant to answering that question, then by all means go ahead. But it sounds as if it is a different issue altogether which should have its own thread.
    Trendem

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    Re: Child Erotica

    Not illegal, but I do think there is a place to censur it to limited environments. Aka not publicly displayed or advertized. It is disturbing to people, partly due to repulsion but partly because there is a natural sexual attraction to even premature members of the opposite sex (or same depending on your nature). Sex parts are sex parts and were wired to like them and wired to be attracted to young healthy members of our species.

    But we do have to realize what's right and wrong and have some sense of when were going too far giving into our inate feelings. Mankind is wired to fight and kill but its not a good behavior in most situations. Art can help us come to terms wtih our forbidden feelings and that can be a good thing, but it can also insite it if you arn't very very careful.

    The only think like this I've ever actualy seen are in japanese Henti films (animated porn movies) where some of the characters are clearly not supposed to be 18 no matter what the disclaimer says.

    Ultimately laws should regulate behavior and not thought.

  11. #11
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    Re: Child Erotica

    What worries me is if a point will be reached where looking at animated characters will not be enough anymore.

    I have watched several Crime and Investigation documentaries before and some pedophiles were at first only "looking" at images of naked children, but somehow only "looking" was not satisfying their hunger and need, and ultimately started targeting real children.

    The same goes for murderers. One classic example will be Jeffrey Dahmer who at first only sexually assaulted young men who he picked up at a bar. He soon discovered that they don't want to take part in the kind of sexual acts he has in mind and it didn't satisfy his sexual needs and hunger, and then started killing them and after killing them he would have sex with them like he wanted to.

    This is about feeding a need and what the chances is of reaching a point where only looking at animated characters will lead to a need to look at the real deal. I certainly will not encourage it.
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    Re: Child Erotica

    I agree with Asp. I've never once heard of how allowing someone to view and enjoy "child porn" prevented a child molestation. Instead, it's been shown that it's the other way around. That looking at child porn "satisfies" to a point, until it no longer has that satisfaction level...then the next stage is in play...that of finding a real child.

    Lastly, "erotica" is intended to express sexuality. So it's 100% horsecrap that "child erotic" is just art. The very nature of "erotica" is one that expresses the nude human anatomy and sexual suggestiveness or sexuality.

    Sexuality has no place or business with children (the age(s) we are talking about here).

    There are several types of "entertainment" images that seem to be broadly categorized here, and I think clarification is in order:

    1) children having sex (illegal porn, immoral)
    2) child erotica (potentially illegal porn - see above argument, immoral either way)
    3) drawn images of naked children having sex (not necessarily illegal porn to my knowledge, yet immoral nonetheless)
    4) drawn images of child erotica (porn - uncertain about legal status in certain states; immoral)

    Legality notwithstanding...ANY image of nude children for ENTERTAINMENT value, is immoral. Why? Because the entertainment value involves sexuality...a characteristics that ought not to be attached to children.

    What to explore "purity" of a little girl? Take one to see her very first pony, take her kite flying, read her a new fairy tale, show her how to bake cookies for the first time, take her to a pet store and let her play with a kitten or puppy, etc... THAT'S purity, THAT'S innocence. There's nothing "pure" about the "sexuality" of a 5 yr old.

    Finding enjoyment in seeing a 5 yr old naked girl sitting on top of naked man or boy isn't an exploration of purity...it's the denigration of moral standards and of human life.
    -=]Apokalupsis[=-
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    Re: Child Erotica

    Quote Originally Posted by Whistlepig View Post
    Maybe I am subconsciously a depraved pervert
    You hit the nail on the head...

    Quote Originally Posted by Whistlepig
    but I think it has more to do with yearning for the ideal of purity.
    If you are viewing a child in a sexual situation and it arouses you, your yearning is about destroying purity.

    Quote Originally Posted by Whistlepig
    I don't really like little girls,
    Pedophiles do not like children.

    Flame Removed - by Apok
    Last edited by Apokalupsis; October 2nd, 2008 at 12:17 AM.

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    Re: Child Erotica

    Quote Originally Posted by Whistlepig View Post
    those creepy stories written by middle-aged men who describe how they do the nasty to their 7yo sons every night (with disclaimers).
    Quote Originally Posted by Whistlepig View Post
    A newer example of this is videos of virtual children having sex with adults. The virtual child is not real and cannot be harmed.
    Quote Originally Posted by Whistlepig View Post
    I am not a pedophile because I'm not looking at the material for sexual pleasure.
    Two quick questions: How are stories about pedophilic sex and/or virtual pedophilic sex NOT porn? What POSSIBLE "Artistic Expression" is there?
    Quote Originally Posted by Whistlepig View Post
    So does anyone think child erotica should be illegal?
    Yes.
    But in your hearts revere Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect, keeping a clear conscience, so that those who speak maliciously against your good behavior in Christ may be ashamed of their slander.
    1 Peter 3:15-16

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    Re: Child Erotica

    Quote Originally Posted by Apokalupsis View Post
    I agree with Asp. I've never once heard of how allowing someone to view and enjoy "child porn" prevented a child molestation. Instead, it's been shown that it's the other way around. That looking at child porn "satisfies" to a point, until it no longer has that satisfaction level...then the next stage is in play...that of finding a real child.
    Ok then, let's assume that child erotica is banned... what do you think paedophiles will turn to? Will they just quietly suppress their urges, or will they seek other alternatives to satisfy their desires? What alternatives do you think they will turn to?
    Trendem

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    Re: Child Erotica

    Don't know. Have to ask the experts, or a actual (or former) paedophile. I just know of existing studies that show an escalation in activity and am unaware of any single study that shows the opposite.
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  17. #17
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    Re: Child Erotica

    Quote Originally Posted by Apokalupsis View Post
    Don't know. Have to ask the experts, or a actual (or former) paedophile. I just know of existing studies that show an escalation in activity and am unaware of any single study that shows the opposite.
    If child erotica indeed encourages paedophiles to seek out the real thing, then I would support making it illegal. The point is I haven't seen studies showing that it does.

    My understanding of how normal adult porn works is that it tends to act as a replacement for the real thing - e.g. men who can't get laid surf porn to fulfil their desires instead of going out to rape someone. If child erotica also works in this manner, then it actually gives paedophiles a harmless outlet for their illicit urges, and should not be banned.

    Sure, the thought of it is disturbing and repugnant, but it is not sound policy to ban things that we find morally repugnant if banning it causes greater harm to the public.
    Trendem

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    Re: Child Erotica

    Quote Originally Posted by Whistlepig View Post
    Maybe I am subconsciously a depraved pervert
    I do not believe there is a maybe about it..I personally believe and in my opinion that you are a pervert and pedophile according to definition of that word.

    Quote Originally Posted by wp
    but I think it has more to do with yearning for the ideal of purity.
    It's the yearning to destroy purity

    Quote Originally Posted by WP
    I don't really like little girls, I like the idea of little girls.
    Of course you don't..Pedophiles never do..The think, of children as nothing more than a piece of meat.

    Quote Originally Posted by WP
    Real children are brats, and not nearly as innocent as portrayed in most child erotica.

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    Re: Child Erotica

    Quote Originally Posted by thrashee View Post
    I don't believe it should be illegal because as you describe it, there is no real victim here. That being said, if you're not looking at child erotica for sexual pleasure, what exactly are you looking at it for? I'm not buying the "artistic expression" line one bit.
    But what about actual art that happens to contain nudity?

    I mean I can recognize the difference between an artistic nude photograph of an adult and a Hustler pictorial.

    So it's impossible to likewise take an artistic photo of a nude child?

    And what about artistic photographs that can arouse purient interest even though that is clearly not the intent of the creator? A pedophile might likewise get aroused by ads for children's underwear.

    The line really is whether the subject of the photograph is being victimized in some way, not what people think of the finished product.

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    Re: Child Erotica

    Quote Originally Posted by Trendem View Post
    Ok then, let's assume that child erotica is banned... what do you think paedophiles will turn to? Will they just quietly suppress their urges, or will they seek other alternatives to satisfy their desires? What alternatives do you think they will turn to?
    I agree with Apok. Using child porn or erotica to feed these urges--even though this remains entirely in the realm of fantasy--is still feeding them. It's a psychological acceptance and entertainment of such urges. This doesn't automatically mean fantasy will translate into reality, of course, but it's still that first step of saying "this is ok on some level". That, to me, is the real danger of escalation, not the suppression of potentially overwhelming urges.
    "Today a young man on acid realized that all matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration, that we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively. There is no such thing as death, life is only a dream, and we're the imagination of ourselves." --Bill Hicks

 

 
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