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  1. #1
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    Obama a terrorist?

    Can anyone show me that there is any truth to what Palin said? I doubt Obama was aware that ayers was a terrorist.

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    Re: Obama a terrorist?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackturtle View Post
    Can anyone show me that there is any truth to what Palin said? I doubt Obama was aware that ayers was a terrorist.
    Are you kidding me?

    Ayers is well known in Chicago. He knew what Ayers did.

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    Re: Obama a terrorist?

    Quote Originally Posted by cds69 View Post
    Are you kidding me?

    Ayers is well known in Chicago. He knew what Ayers did.


    Not that it matters.

    Both he and his wife are well known in their community. Both have stellar reputations; Dohrn at Northwestern's law school, Ayers as an education professor at the University of Illinois at Chicago. To think that Obama did not know of Ayers' history would equivalent to thinking that Obama is not in touch.
    "A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in no other way." - Mark Twain

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    Re: Obama a terrorist?

    Quote Originally Posted by cds69 View Post
    Are you kidding me?

    Ayers is well known in Chicago. He knew what Ayers did.
    Ya, it sure is sinister that you might work with someone on reforming education or homelessness issues when they have a radical past some 30 to 40 years in their past, even if they are a fairly respected member of the community today.

    Anything you ever did should be held agaisnt you forever and ever. Especialy if they never actualy killed anyone as a "terrorist" and were in thier early 20s at the time.

  5. #5
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    Re: Obama a terrorist?

    I wouldn't say that Obama is a terrorist himself. But his friend Ayers certainly was. Obama tries to distance him as just a guy who lives in the neighborhood and is a college professor. Their relationship is much more extensive than that:


    In 1995, During Obama's First State Senate Campaign, William Ayers And Wife Bernadine Dohrn Hosted A Meeting Of Chicago Liberals At Their Home For Obama, Which One Attendee Said Was Aimed At "Launching Him." "In 1995, State Senator Alice Palmer introduced her chosen successor, Barack Obama, to a few of the district's influential liberals at the home of two well known figures on the local left: William Ayers and Bernardine Dohrn. While Ayers and Dohrn may be thought of in Hyde Park as local activists, they're better known nationally as two of the most notorious -- and unrepentant -- figures from the violent fringe of the 1960s anti-war movement. ... 'I can remember being one of a small group of people who came to Bill Ayers' house to learn that Alice Palmer was stepping down from the senate and running for Congress,' said Dr. Quentin Young, a prominent Chicago physician and advocate for single-payer health care, of the info rmal gathering at the home of Ayers and his wife, Dohrn. '[Palmer] identified [Obama] as her successor.' ... Dr. Young and another guest, Maria Warren, described it similarly: as an introduction to Hyde Park liberals of the handpicked successor to Palmer, a well-regarded figure on the left. 'When I first met Barack Obama, he was giving a standard, innocuous little talk in the living room of those two legends-in-their-own-minds, Bill Ayers and Bernardine Dohrn,' Warren wrote on her blog in 2005. 'They were launching him -- introducing him to the Hyde Park community as the best thing since sliced bread.'" (Ben Smith, "Obama Once Visited '60s Radicals," The Politico, 1/22/08)

    From March Of 1995 Until September Of 1997, Obama And Ayers Attended At Least Seven Meetings Together Relating To The Chicago Annenberg Challenge. (Chicago Annenberg Challenge, Board Of Directors Meeting, Minutes Of The Board, 3/15/95, 3/31/95, 4/13/95, 6/5/95, 9/30/97; National Annenberg Challenge Evaluation Meeting, List Of Participants, 5/24/95; Chicago Annenberg Challenge, Chicago School Reform Collaborative Meeting, Minutes, 10/23/96)

    NOTE: Bill Ayers Was Asked To Help Obama Formulate The Chicago Annenberg Challenge By-Laws. (Chicago Annenberg Challenge Board Of Directors Minutes, 3/15/95)
    In 1997, Obama Praised Ayers' Book On The Juvenile Justice System. "The two men were involved in efforts to reform the city's education system. They appeared together on academic panels, including one organized by Michelle Obama to discuss the juvenile justice system, an area of mutual concern. Mr. Ayers's book on the subject won a rave review in The Chicago Tribune by Mr. Obama, who called it 'a searing and timely account.'" (Jo Becker and Christopher Drew, "Pragmatic Politics, Forged On The South Side," The New York Times, 5/11/08)

    Obama On William Ayers' "A Kind And Just Parent: The Children Of Juvenile Court": "A searing and timely account of the juvenile court system, and the courageous individuals who rescue hope from despair." (Chicago Tribune, 12/21/97)
    "[Obama And Ayers] Have Also Appeared Jointly On Two Academic Panels, One In 1997 And Another In 2001." (Russell Berman, "Obama's Ties To Left Come Under Scrutiny," The New York Sun, 2/19/08)

    From 1999 To 2002, Obama Served With Ayers On The Board Of Directors For Woods Fund Of Chicago. "[Ayers] served with [Obama] from 1999 to 2002 on the board of the Woods Fund, an anti-poverty group." (Timothy J. Burger, "Obama's Chicago Ties Might Fuel 'Republican Attack Machine'," Bloomberg, 2/15/08)

    During The Time Obama And Ayers Served Together On The Woods Fund, Ayers Was Quoted Saying "I Don't Regret Setting Bombs ... I Feel We Didn't Do Enough." "'I don't regret setting bombs,' Bill Ayers said. 'I feel we didn't do enough.' Mr. Ayers, who spent the 1970's as a fugitive in the Weather Underground, was sitting in the kitchen of his big turn-of-the-19th-century stone house in the Hyde Park district of Chicago." (Dinitia Smith, "No Regrets For A Love Of Explosives," The New York Times, 9/11/01)
    NOTE: Obama, Born August 14th, 1961, Was 40 Years Old When Ayers Was Quoted. (Obama For America Website, www.barackobama.com, Accessed 10/6/08; Dinitia Smith, "No Regrets For A Love Of Explosives," The New York Times, 9/11/01)
    While Obama And Ayers Were Serving On The Woods Fund Together, Ayers Posed Standing On An American Flag For An Article In Chicago Magazine Entitled "No Regrets." (Marcia Froelke Coburn, "No Regrets," Chicago Magazine, 8/01)
    Obama And Ayers Are Neighbors In Chicago's Hyde Park Neighborhood. "Twenty-six years later, at a lunchtime meeting about school reform in a Chicago skyscraper, Barack Obama met Mr. Ayers, by then an education professor. Their paths have crossed sporadically since then, at a coffee Mr. Ayers hosted for Mr. Obama's first run for office, on the schools project and a charitable board, and in casual encounters as Hyde Park neighbors." (Scott Shane, "Obama And '60s Bomber: A Look Into Crossed Paths," The New York Times, 10/4/08)

    Obama Spokesman Ben LaBolt Told The New York Times That Last Year Obama And Ayers "Bumped Into Each Other On The Street In Hyde Park." "[Obama spokesman Ben LaBolt] said they have not spoken by phone or exchanged e-mail messages since Mr. Obama began serving in the United States Senate in January 2005 and last met more than a year ago when they bumped into each other on the street in Hyde Park." (Scott Shane, "Obama And '60s Bomber: A Look Into Crossed Paths," The New York Times, 10/4/08)
    Neighbors Have Said "It's Only Natural" That Obama Would Know Ayers, Who Often Opens His Home For Gatherings, As Obama And His Wife "Are A Part Of Our Neighborhood And Part Of Our Social Circle." "Since coming out of hiding in 1980, the couple have raised three boys in Chicago and become part of the fabric of their liberal South Side neighborhood. Neighbors said it's only natural that Obama would know Ayers and Dohrn, who often open their homes for gatherings filled with lively discussions about politics, arts and social issues. Obama and his wife 'are part of our neighborhood and part of our social circle,' said Elizabeth Chandler, a neighbor of Ayers'." (Trevor Jensen, Robert Mitchum and Mary Owen, "Bill Ayers' Turbulent Past Contrasts With Quiet Academ ic Life," Chicago Tribune, 4/17/08)
    Ayers' Organization, The Weather Underground, Was A "Violent Left-Wing Activist Group":

    "William Ayers ... [Was] A Founding Member Of The Group That Bombed The U.S. Capitol And The Pentagon During The 1970s." (Russell Berman, "Obama's Ties To Left Come Under Scrutiny," The New York Sun, 2/19/08)

    Ayers' Group, The Weather Underground, Is A "Violent Left-Wing Activist Group." "Senator Obama's ties to a former leader of the violent left-wing activist group the Weather Underground are drawing new scrutiny as he battles Senator Clinton for the Democratic presidential nomination." (Russell Berman, "Obama's Ties To Left Come Under Scrutiny," The New York Sun, 2/19/08)
    The Weather Underground Produced A Manual Which Begins, "We Are A Guerrilla Organization. We Are Communist Women And Men, Underground In The United States For More Than Four Years." "The coalition was said to be a violence-prone faction inspired by the Weather Underground's ''Prairie Fire,'' a guerrilla warfare manual published in 1974. The manual begins, 'We are a guerrilla organization. We are Communist women and men, underground in the United States for more than four years.'" (Paul L. Montgomery, "2 Women In Brink's Case Identified With Weathermen From Start

    http://www.gop.com/News/NewsRead.asp...6-c5fe81d901cd

  6. #6
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    Re: Obama a terrorist?

    I'm sure Obama knew Ayers was a terrorist. But that does not make Obama a terrorist. And I have not seen any proof that Obama was actually friends with Ayers.

    I don't advocate terrorism, but I think disagreeing with your government and acting to change your government's mind on an issue is a part of your right as an American. Ayers never killed anyone, but it was still wrong of him to bomb buildings. Yet, breaking the law sometimes leads to positive changes, such as that of Rosa Parks refusing to give up her bus seat to a white man. We forget now that that was illegal, and I believe she paid a fine. But it launched the bus boycotts, which then catapulted the civil rights movement...and the rest is history.

  7. #7
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    Re: Obama a terrorist?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wolf Myth View Post
    I'm sure Obama knew Ayers was a terrorist. But that does not make Obama a terrorist. And I have not seen any proof that Obama was actually friends with Ayers.

    I don't advocate terrorism, but I think disagreeing with your government and acting to change your government's mind on an issue is a part of your right as an American. Ayers never killed anyone, but it was still wrong of him to bomb buildings. Yet, breaking the law sometimes leads to positive changes, such as that of Rosa Parks refusing to give up her bus seat to a white man. We forget now that that was illegal, and I believe she paid a fine. But it launched the bus boycotts, which then catapulted the civil rights movement...and the rest is history.
    First of all, who ever said that Obama was a terrorist?

    My problem with the Ayers issue is really about Obama's failure to take a stand. Although many seem to want to paint Ayers as a harmless aging revolutionary wannabe, the fact is that he was a founding member of a group that murdered. There is significant evidence that his wife actually planted a police station bomb that killed one person. At the very least he is an accessory to murder.

    To compare him to Rosa Parks is a farce and an insult to legitimate civil rights pioneers. Rosa Parks took a stand. (or rather a seat) She engaged in peaceful civil disobedience and yes, she triggered a movement that emulated her method. When a white man wanted her seat, she remain seated - she didn't pull out a knife and stab him in the neck.

    Obama could have taken a stand. He could have politely declined to sit on boards with him. There is no shortage of worthwhile organizations in Chicago that Obama could have participated in that didn't have a domestic terrorist on their board of directors.

  8. #8
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    Re: Obama a terrorist?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wolf Myth View Post
    And I have not seen any proof that Obama was actually friends with Ayers.
    ???

    Did you not read the above post? I'll highlight it for you.

    In 1995, During Obama's First State Senate Campaign, William Ayers And Wife Bernadine Dohrn Hosted A Meeting Of Chicago Liberals At Their Home For Obama, Which One Attendee Said Was Aimed At "Launching Him."
    In 1997, Obama Praised Ayers' Book On The Juvenile Justice System.
    They appeared together on academic panels, including one organized by Michelle Obama
    As Obama And His Wife "Are A Part Of Our Neighborhood And Part Of Our Social Circle."
    Neighbors said it's only natural that Obama would know Ayers and Dohrn, who often open their homes for gatherings filled with lively discussions about politics, arts and social issues
    "[Obama spokesman Ben LaBolt] said they have not spoken by phone or exchanged e-mail messages since Mr. Obama began serving in the United States Senate in January 2005
    So, before he made it to the Senate, they used to call and e-mail each other?

    What part, exactly, did you not see?
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  9. #9
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    Re: Obama a terrorist?

    I think it all goes to the heart of the matte; who is Obama? For someone who has based his entire campaign on being above politics, he certainly surrounded himself with some of the most radical people in the game.

    He sat in a church that preached black liberation theology for 20 years. This church gave high praise to Farakhan. While Obama has noted he does not agree, he continued to sit in the pew.

    Obama and Farakhan were even pictred in the same montage on a church magazine:
    http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.p...w&pageId=64260

    Yet, Obama tries to deny he knew of his church's radical message. This is the worst part. At every turn, Obama denies everything. Wright a radical racist? I didn't know that Rev. Wright, Obama claims.

    So, now he is being asked about Ayers. Familiarly, Obama didn't know the terrorist Ayres. Sure, he read the guy's books, endorsed them, but had no idea the guy was a former terrorist. Let's assume this is actually true. The subject of the books Obama endorsed favored eliminating juvenile prisons. They were critical of the white man. They went right along with the message he heard in church. And? He ENDORSED those books.

    This guy isn't a terrorist. He's a politician. He's a politician that has been groomed, created, and planted by terrorists and radicals.
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    Re: Obama a terrorist?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Gonzo View Post
    So, before he made it to the Senate, they used to call and e-mail each other?

    What part, exactly, did you not see?
    You don't know the nature of those emails and phone calls. They could have been all business since both served on the Chicago Annenberg Challenge Board Of Directors. They attended panels together and were part of the same neighborhood social circle. That does not make them friends or "pals".

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    Re: Obama a terrorist?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ibelsd View Post
    He's a politician that has been groomed, created, and planted by terrorists and radicals.


    Forget demonstrating in Obama's actions or documented opinions that he is a violent radical.. lets instead overstate the influence some relations have had on him without any evidence whatsoever.
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  12. #12
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    Re: Obama a terrorist?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vandaler View Post


    Forget demonstrating in Obama's actions or documented opinions that he is a violent radical.. lets instead overstate the influence some relations have had on him without any evidence whatsoever.
    I never claimed he was violent. I claimed he's a radical. I am not claiming he's a terrorist. I am claiming he is a plant by terrorists, such as Ayres, to push their agenda. For all I know, Obama truly feels he's above it all.

    Let's turn the tables. If McCain worked alongside David Duke for the last decade and sat in Hagee's church for the last 20 years. If McCain then claimed he had no idea Duke used to be a KKK member. If McCain claimed he knew a different Hagee. If McCain wrote a book whose title was a Hagee quote. If McCain spent his formative years learning under the guide of right wing anarchists (equivalent to Saul Alinsky). If McCain's wife made anti-American comments. If McCain made a statement such as, "the black man's stupidity denies world liquidity." (ie. white man's greed drives a world in need). If I told you all these things about McCain, what would YOU liberals be saying about him? Be honest. Would you be singing the tune, well, we cannot prove he's some right-wing extremist and racist, so we'll just assume he is a moderate right wing guy with no reason to worry about his associations and ideologies? What sorts of policies would you expect from the McCain I described above versus the actual McCain? What types of advisors would you expect the McCain I fictionally described to bring on-board? Geez people. There's denial and then there is just sticking your head in the sand. Obama is about as moderate as Ellen Degeneres is good looking. Claim he's moderate at your own risk.


    _________________________________ Post Merged _________________________________


    Wolf Myth disagrees: This whole Ayers nonsense reeks of desperation. Good luck with that!
    What a brilliant rebuttal. I mention Obama's endorsement of Ayres' books as a signal of Obama's actual beliefs versus those he portrays in public. That's desperation? Am I running a campaign? I thought this is a debate website. Huh. I guess if we pick on your Dumbo-eared, radical loving, race-baiting, Chicago candidate, I must be some McCain plant.
    Last edited by Ibelsd; October 7th, 2008 at 08:33 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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    Re: Obama a terrorist?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ibelsd View Post
    I claimed he's a radical.
    Fair enough, can you demonstrate he's a radical other then through his associations ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ibelsd View Post
    Let's turn the tables.... Be honest.
    I would honestly expect, if McCain, or any other person would have been swayed through his relations, that it would turn up in the forms of articles he'd have written, speeches he would have done, etc... I would look into it with much of interest, but not question McCains character unless I would see trace amount of radical thoughts in actions or written opinions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ibelsd View Post
    Obama is about as moderate as Ellen Degeneres is good looking. Claim he's moderate at your own risk.
    He is a liberal Democrat in my book. That does not make him a radical.

    I ask again, what is the evidence that he is a radical other then through the influence you suppose he must have had inherited through some of his associations ?
    Last edited by Vandaler; October 7th, 2008 at 09:46 AM.
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    Re: Obama a terrorist?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ibelsd View Post
    The subject of the books Obama endorsed favored eliminating juvenile prisons. They were critical of the white man. They went right along with the message he heard in church. And? He ENDORSED those books.
    It's not unusual for any American to be critical of laws and procedures created by white men. I am a white man and don't agree with everything all white men do...especially ones in our government.

    And please cite this evidence that Ayers and Obama want to eliminate the juvenile prisons.

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    Re: Obama a terrorist?

    Heard someone ask this question:


    Q. What do Osama Bin Laden and Barack Hussein Obama have in common?


    A. They both have friends who bombed the pentagon.

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    Re: Obama a terrorist?

    Quote Originally Posted by evensaul View Post
    A. They both have friends who bombed the pentagon.
    Again, can you show us proof that Obama and Ayers were friends? Or were they merely associates?

  17. #17
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    Re: Obama a terrorist?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wolf Myth View Post
    Again, can you show us proof that Obama and Ayers were friends? Or were they merely associates?
    I think I heard that Ayers babysat for Obama's kids in Obama's home. Would you have an "associate" do that, or a friend? But I don't have support for that item...yet. So I'll change the answer to the question:


    Q. What do Osama Bin Laden and Barack Hussein Obama have in common?


    A. They both have associates who bombed the pentagon.




    yeah. that makes it a whole lot better.

  18. #18
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    Re: Obama a terrorist?

    Quote Originally Posted by evensaul View Post
    A. They both have associates who bombed the pentagon.
    That's more like it.

  19. #19
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    Re: Obama a terrorist?

    Ibelsd makes a good point. The hypocrisy is glaring, yet liberals are turning a blind eye toward it.

    I've never made the stance that McCain was perfect, by any means, but the differences between he and Obama are stark. Why choosing to look at one and not the other is beyond dishonest.
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  20. #20
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    Re: Obama a terrorist?

    Quote Originally Posted by cds69 View Post
    First of all, who ever said that Obama was a terrorist?
    McCain supporters:



    Note that McCain clearly hears the crowd yell "terrorist!" (note his reaction) and doesn't say anything about it. Prior to this week, I respected, but obviously did not prefer, McCain. Now, I have no respect for McCain. He's a detestable person, IMO.

    They also accuse Obama of treason:



    The McCain campaign appears to be soliciting law enforcement officers to help throw around the mud:



    With that kind of intro, any wonder why Republican political yard signs look like this?:



    McCain knows the flames he's stoking:

    The Tone Being Created
    October 07, 2008 8:02 AM

    "Palin's routine attacks on the media have begun to spill into ugliness," writes the Washington Post's Dana Milbank. "In Clearwater, arriving reporters were greeted with shouts and taunts by the crowd of about 3,000. Palin then went on to blame Katie Couric's questions for her 'less-than-successful interview with kinda mainstream media.' At that, Palin supporters turned on reporters in the press area, waving thunder sticks and shouting abuse. Others hurled obscenities at a camera crew. One Palin supporter shouted a racial epithet at an African American sound man for a network and told him, 'Sit down, boy.'...

    "Palin, speaking to a sea of 'Palin Power' and 'Sarahcuda' T-shirts, tried to link Obama to the 1960s Weather Underground. 'One of his earliest supporters is a man named Bill Ayers,' she said. ('Boooo!' said the crowd.) 'And, according to the New York Times, he was a domestic terrorist and part of a group that, quote, "launched a campaign of bombings that would target the Pentagon and our U.S. Capitol,"' she continued. ('Boooo!' the crowd repeated.)

    "'Kill him!' proposed one man in the audience."

    This does not appear an isolated incident. Yesterday at a McCain rally, after McCain asked "Who is the real Barack Obama?" a member of the audience yelled "Terrorist!" And so on.

    Getting ugly out there. http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpu...one-being.html

    Getting ugly indeed; the worst I've seen in a Presidential campaign in my lifetime.

    What's next? Mobs demanding Couric's head? Crowds shouting "n***er"? An attack on Obama?

    McCain, win or lose, is tarnished forever.

    Quote Originally Posted by cds69 View Post
    Obama could have taken a stand. He could have politely declined to sit on boards with him. There is no shortage of worthwhile organizations in Chicago that Obama could have participated in that didn't have a domestic terrorist on their board of directors.
    OK, so your contention is that anyone who sat on a non-profit board with Ayres is a terrorist sympathizer or at least unfit for the Presidency. How about anyone at the University of Illinois? Are students included in this? Surely they could have "taken a stand" by refusing to attend the University, right? Or is this limited to students that took a class taught by Ayres? How far does your argument extend?

    And what about someone who participated in meetings attempting to get federal regulators off the back of a crook who cost taxpayers billions? Don't you have a problem with McCain not "taking a stand" on Keating? If not, why the double standard? Are 60's revolutionaries more or less despicable than crooks who bilked people out of their life savings and cost taxpayers billions?

 

 
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