Welcome guest, is this your first visit? Create Account now to join.
  • Login:

Welcome to the Online Debate Network.

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed.

Page 3 of 9 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 ... LastLast
Results 41 to 60 of 165
  1. #41
    ODN Community Regular

    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    5,626
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Christians, Divorce, and Remarriage

    Quote Originally Posted by evensaul View Post
    Evil people doing things? Let's look at this thread as an example. A Christian lady asks for help on an issue "as a Christian" from other Christians, and you use it as an opportunity to tell her that her faith is a useless fabrication. I can think of nothing more evil in this world, than how you and other atheists try to talk Christians out of their salvation. But you won't succeed. Satan's efforts, through you, are no match for God. His children cannot be taken from His hand, no matter how hard you try.
    You can think of nothing more evil?


    How about the Holocaust? The Crusades? The Spanish Inquisition?
    "Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities." --Voltaire

  2. #42
    ODN Community Regular

    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Nowhere
    Posts
    621
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Christians, Divorce, and Remarriage

    Quote Originally Posted by evensaul View Post
    Evil people doing things? Let's look at this thread as an example. A Christian lady asks for help on an issue "as a Christian" from other Christians, and you use it as an opportunity to tell her that her faith is a useless fabrication. I can think of nothing more evil in this world, than how you and other atheists try to talk Christians out of their salvation. But you won't succeed. Satan's efforts, through you, are no match for God. His children cannot be taken from His hand, no matter how hard you try.
    Notice how you correlate talking common sense, and everything that truly speaks to the heart of people, as works of Satan. If it doesn't agree with your "word', it must be evil. Disregard, of course, how Scarlett feels, how her new marriage has enhanced her life, or brought her any happiness whatsoever. The fact that it goes against words written by scores of men thousands of years ago hundreds of years AFTER the life Christ means nothing to you, of course. It's all just evil. Why? Well, because those men SAID it is.

    I see your point.
    "Today a young man on acid realized that all matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration, that we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively. There is no such thing as death, life is only a dream, and we're the imagination of ourselves." --Bill Hicks

  3. #43
    ODN Community Regular

    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    3,661
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Christians, Divorce, and Remarriage

    Quote Originally Posted by thrashee View Post
    Notice how you correlate talking common sense, and everything that truly speaks to the heart of people, as works of Satan. .
    No. I identify trying to talk a Christian lady out of her faith as the work of Satan. And you as his willing tool.

  4. #44
    ODN's Crotchety Old Man

    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Location, Location
    Posts
    9,671
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Christians, Divorce, and Remarriage

    Quote Originally Posted by evensaul View Post
    No. I identify trying to talk a Christian lady out of her faith as the work of Satan. And you are his willing tool.
    Notice how you actually confirm the irrational paranoia Thrashee speaks of by moving from GP being the anti-Christ to Thrashee being the anti-Christ, when GP is the one who made the statements in question.

    I can only see one willing "tool" in this thread...

  5. #45
    ODN Community Regular

    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    3,661
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Christians, Divorce, and Remarriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Dionysus View Post
    Notice how you actually confirm the irrational paranoia Thrashee speaks of by moving from GP being the anti-Christ to Thrashee being the anti-Christ, when GP is the one who made the statements in question.

    I can only see one willing "tool" in this thread...
    You are all anti-Christians, looking for every opportunity to ridicule the Christian faith and those who follow it. This thread is just one of hundreds of similar threads where the ODN atheists feel compelled to post. Like moths to a candlestick. The only difference is that moths don't think they will put out the flame.

  6. #46
    ODN's Crotchety Old Man

    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Location, Location
    Posts
    9,671
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Christians, Divorce, and Remarriage

    Quote Originally Posted by evensaul View Post
    You are all anti-Christians
    I'm not anti-Christian; I'm anti-stupid. I'm pro-common sense. There are PLENTY of intelligent Chrsitans who have managed to reconcile their Christian faith with their overall worldview. I have a tremendous amount of respect for thinking Christians who reasonably and intelligently challenge my secular worldview. Take people like Apok, Chad and Clive for example. I find myself agreeing with them much of the time, AND the things I agree with them on are many times things they employ their faith to support. Chad, for example, is an avid supporter of evolution theory. Is he a "willing tool of Satan" because we happen to agree, but personally, I see that the theory itself and the evidence to support it as corrosive to religious faith? Of course not. He makes sense of it. He understands the theory to be the best explanation for the variation of life on this planet. He doesn't argue the stupid argument that says 'the Bible doesn't agree with evolution so it's false and a work of the Devil', nor does he employ the EQUALLY stupid argument that says 'a non-Christian cannot be correct about anything Christian'. You use both of these arguments like a child randomly uses "base!" during a game of chase.

    If you ever hope to convince anyone here that Christianity as a whole is anything but stupid, bronze-age ******** (as Christ would have you do), then you need use the same tools of logic and reason you use when you're talking about something like politics. You do a very good job there, I think. Even though I don't agree with you most of the time, I have to confess that the reason I don't is mostly because of a bias on my part, and knowing that this bias exists prevents me from engaging you in such a debate. I'm convinced that you'd wind up making me look stupid and handing me my ass on the way out the door. I'm too biased to be objective and, as a matter of fact, there's been more than one occasion that I've found your arguments to be quite compelling. You actually make me think - and subsequently doubt - my own positions. This is a good thing, no? I like to think it is.

    From your point of view, I'm sure you would agree that arguing your faith is far more profound a task than arguing politics. I'd even go so far to say that with such profundity comes great responsibility. All that when tied with Christ's mandate to "Go into all the world and preach the Gospel to all creation" makes it so that when you speak of your faith, you must do the very best you can with it at every opportunity. But saying that 'Cuz God sayz so!' is the default answer to everything and you either get it or you're a "willing tool of Satan" is stupid, wreckless and grossly irresponsible, ESPECIALLY as a Christian. It's no good to try and convince people who already believe, and it's COMPLETELY wreckless and grossly irresponsible to arbitrarily dismiss anything a non-Christian has to contribute to such a discussion. If you're going to dismiss the thoughts of a non-Christian, then do it intelligently. Do it reasonably. Do it responsibly. Remember, when it comes to salvation, it's the ones who DON'T agree you've got to try and reach, but you can only do that by appealing to that person's state of mind. Completely and irrationally abdicating reason and telling people that they're "tools of Satan" isn't the way to do it, I'm afraid. There really is nothing more to it than that.

    SO!

    Having said ALL that, Scarlett, I would encourage you to consider ALL the opinions expressed here, take out everything that doesn't help, and keep everything that does. Also, I would strongly urge to reconcile all the things that DO help with your Christian faith. The very last thing I'd like to see you do is abandon it. There's simply no need to disbelieve in God or the Salavation of Christ in order to feel vidicated in your situation, nor is there any reason whatsoever to harbor guilt over your decisions.

    But hey, I'm just a willing tool of Satan.

  7. #47
    ODN Community Regular

    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    3,661
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Christians, Divorce, and Remarriage

    Quote Originally Posted by MindTrap028 View Post
    Scarlett, my wife pointed out that I failed to ask a very pertinent question.
    Were you saved when you divorced your first husband? If not.. I don't think you have any problem. as that is part of your unsaved past.
    Interesting question and implied assertion, that she has "a problem" if her divorce/remarraige came after coming to Christ. I'm not sure I agree.

    Our Lord died for all of our sins, not just those that came before we started following Him. Or do I misunderstand you?

  8. #48
    ODN Community Regular

    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Nowhere
    Posts
    621
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Christians, Divorce, and Remarriage

    Quote Originally Posted by evensaul View Post
    No. I identify trying to talk a Christian lady out of her faith as the work of Satan. And you as his willing tool.
    Dionysus replied far more eloquently (and patiently) than I possibly could have, but I'd like you to understand, evensaul, that my intent here is most certainly not to talk Scarlett out of anything--other than perhaps any guilt she may have regarding her new marriage. On that note, however, I'm afraid I've hijacked Scarlett's question by debating Christianity with you.

    Scarlett, Catholics have a neat little process called annulment...I'm not sure if other faiths have the same thing, but it may be an "official" way for you to rest easy in your current marriage. In any case, I applaud you for getting out of a bad situation and into a better one.
    "Today a young man on acid realized that all matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration, that we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively. There is no such thing as death, life is only a dream, and we're the imagination of ourselves." --Bill Hicks

  9. #49
    ODN Community Regular

    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    According to Christians, just south of heaven
    Posts
    1,723
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Christians, Divorce, and Remarriage

    Quote Originally Posted by evensaul View Post
    Evil people doing things? Let's look at this thread as an example. A Christian lady asks for help on an issue "as a Christian" from other Christians, and you use it as an opportunity to tell her that her faith is a useless fabrication. I can think of nothing more evil in this world, than how you and other atheists try to talk Christians out of their salvation. But you won't succeed. Satan's efforts, through you, are no match for God. His children cannot be taken from His hand, no matter how hard you try.
    canthink of nothing more deceptive or evil, than a Christian spreading false teachings about his God.

    The idea that God would want you to suffer in a loveless marriage for the sake of a covenant, and would want you to endure physical abuse the entire time.....is absurd. I can say as a former Christian that you do not understand the teachings of your own God.

    it's not really a big surprise though. After all....the disciples where right there....and THEY didn't get it either. Not a stretch for you to not get it 2,000 years after the fact.

    I that a Christian would think that a God of love would want you to suffer on purpose. Sick sick sick.


    _________________________________ Post Merged _________________________________


    Quote Originally Posted by evensaul View Post
    No. I identify trying to talk a Christian lady out of her faith as the work of Satan. And you as his willing tool.
    He's not trying to talk her out of her fath. he's trying to get her to see that God isn't supposed to be thought of as a hard ss that wants you to suffer. I'd imagine a lot of Christiansn would guess your linen of thought is more damnign than thrashee's.
    Last edited by Rogue Cardinal; October 15th, 2008 at 11:44 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

    In Heaven there is no beer. That's why we drink it here.

    Rogue Cardinal, Member of the God-Awful Atheist Syndicate


  10. #50
    ODN Community Regular

    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    3,661
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Christians, Divorce, and Remarriage

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinBrowning View Post

    In the passage in St. Mark which you reference, Christ was showing his disapproval of the current status of women..
    How do you arrive at that interpretation?

  11. #51
    Super Moderator

    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Louisiana
    Posts
    9,161
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Christians, Divorce, and Remarriage

    Quote Originally Posted by evensaul View Post
    Interesting question and implied assertion, that she has "a problem" if her divorce/remarraige came after coming to Christ. I'm not sure I agree.

    Our Lord died for all of our sins, not just those that came before we started following Him. Or do I misunderstand you?
    Well, I'm not saying it is an unforgivable sin or anything.
    There are two different problems IMO. regarding being saved at the time or not.

    If you were not saved, what is the point in looking back at an old self that is dead and gone.. worrying about a sin when you were still dead.
    If however you were saved.. or consider yourself to be saved, then you may not be facing idle regret, but a conviction of God on a sin that you are carrying around that you need to let go.

    In getting saved you repented for your whole life prior. After salvation when a new sin is revealed to you, you need to repent. The revelation is to make you more like Christ.

    I hope that clears it up a bit as to what I mean.
    To serve man.

  12. #52
    ODN Community Regular

    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    3,661
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Christians, Divorce, and Remarriage

    Quote Originally Posted by MindTrap028 View Post
    If you were not saved, what is the point in looking back at an old self that is dead and gone.. worrying about a sin when you were still dead.
    Agreed.

    Quote Originally Posted by MindTrap028 View Post
    In getting saved you repented for your whole life prior. After salvation when a new sin is revealed to you, you need to repent. The revelation is to make you more like Christ.
    Okay, so here's the terrible question...

    Are you implying that she would have to leave her second husband, in order to be forgiven for a continuing adultery?

  13. #53
    ODN Community Regular

    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    1,220
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Christians, Divorce, and Remarriage

    Quote Originally Posted by evensaul View Post
    You are all anti-Christians, looking for every opportunity to ridicule the Christian faith and those who follow it. This thread is just one of hundreds of similar threads where the ODN atheists feel compelled to post. Like moths to a candlestick. The only difference is that moths don't think they will put out the flame.
    Evansaul, I know a lot of Christians. Granted, I have not had good experiences with Christians, leading me to hold a kind of 'dislike' of the religion. I cannot be blamed for that as I have only encounted Christians who want my to convert to Christianity.
    In the past few months I have come to know many other Christians, on this board and others, and I have a great deal of respect for them. If I critise their religion, they don't claim that I am 'anti Christian'. They respect my opinion. You going on about Atheists being anti Christian is not going to make people have any respect for the Christian faith. Atheists are not anti Christian, they simply have no belief in a God. The only reason an Atheist may become anti Christian is when they encounter people who refer to them as anti Christian when debating an issue.

    I am not anti Christian, and I doubt none of the other Atheists here at ODN are, either. They will be likely to become anti Christian if they are continually having to read anti Atheist ramblings from a Christian.

    Evansaul, you seem to have a problem with Atheists, calling them 'anti Christians'. Have you ever considered the fact that you, yourself, are anti Atheist?

    EDIT: Apologies to all for being off topic. I just felt that needed to be said.
    Frozen In Time Yearning Forbidden Wishes Damned And Divine
    Scars Of My Broken Kisses What Will Follow If Tomorrow's Blind? My Eternal Night.

  14. #54
    ODN Community Regular

    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Where every life is precious
    Posts
    2,157
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Christians, Divorce, and Remarriage

    Quote Originally Posted by MindTrap028 View Post
    Scarlett, my wife pointed out that I failed to ask a very pertinent question.
    Were you saved when you divorced your first husband? .
    Yes.

    Quote Originally Posted by MT
    I also believe in moving out. It is a drastic step, but it isn't divorce. (One which I believe would lead to the unbeliever either changing.. or divorcing you)
    I had him removed from the home through a protective order.
    He did not change, nor did he leave me alone or divorce me.

    He would get intoxicated and come over to the house, and scream and yell and frighten his own children.
    Then I would call the police on him, then his brother or father would bail him out of jail, and then he would get intoxicated again and come over to the house again......
    This continued until they finally gave him some serious time for breaking vertebrae in my back, which my children witnessed, and then stealing my car and driving it around while he was intoxicated.

    Then, when he called me from jail, he said that when he got out, he would make my life a living hell, he would never leave me alone, and that he would kill me.

    Quote Originally Posted by MT
    When your husband hit you... You were not in a fight with him, but with Satan for the soul of your husband. (who won?)
    To be honest, I truly don't know.

    Quote Originally Posted by MT
    The bible says that we should let the unbeliever Go. But stay with them as long as they are willing because by our staying the marriage is sanctified through the believer.
    But he was not an unbeliever.
    At least, he represented himself to be a believer.
    "As long as I have a voice, I will speak for those who have none".

  15. #55
    ODN Community Regular

    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    3,661
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Christians, Divorce, and Remarriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Tarja Turunen View Post

    Evansaul, you seem to have a problem with Atheists, calling them 'anti Christians'.
    Tarja, I have no problem with someone who says simply "I'm an unbeliever", and who searches for the truth with an open heart. From the first of your posts to me, (the Noah's Ark thread, I think), I had the sense that you are open to possibilities and seeking the truth about God. If I have offended you, I apologize.

    But there are atheists, including on ODN, who are most certainly anti-christian. Their minds are made up, and their hearts are hardened against the word of God. They look for every opportunity to ridicule Christianity. That is what happened in this thread. A Christian lady asked for a discussion within the context of Christianity, obviously wanting the views of other Christians. But some atheists cannot stand to see such a discussion without intruding with their anti-christian statements. Their actions clearly demonstrate that they are anti-christian.

    By contrast, do I make fun of atheism? No. Do I say that atheists are idiots for their beliefs? No. What I have no tolerance for are individual atheists who go beyond simple unbelief and actively attack Christianity at every opportunity, as has happened here. I will not meekly accept anti-Christians who reject the Bible as the word of God, trying to press their interpretation of the Bible on Christians, without making it clear to other Christians that they are being lectured to by wolves in sheep's clothing who are, yes, the willing tools of Satan.

    So, again. I apologize to you Tarja, if you felt my words were directed at you. They were not. Nor were they directed at any other atheist seeking the truth about the word of God.

  16. #56
    ODN Community Regular

    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    5,626
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Christians, Divorce, and Remarriage

    Quote Originally Posted by MindTrap028 View Post
    Scarlett, my wife pointed out that I failed to ask a very pertinent question.
    Were you saved when you divorced your first husband? If not.. I don't think you have any problem. as that is part of your unsaved past.
    Completely, utterly irrelevant. Abuse is abuse.

    I defy you to explain to me why you shouldn't divorce your wife if she beats you with a shovel while intoxicated.

    Quote Originally Posted by MT
    That is why he should be in Jail. We have authorities which make divorce not necessary to deal with the situation.
    I also believe in moving out. It is a drastic step, but it isn't divorce. (One which I believe would lead to the unbeliever
    either changing.. or divorcing you)
    What the hell is the difference between moving out and divorcing?


    Or is your entire point that Scarlette should never have sex again otherwise she's committing adultery on her abusive husband?

    Yeah, you're right, that's absolutely horrible. God forbid she ever have sex with a man again or ever have a loving partner to live and grow with.

    That would be simply terrible.

    Quote Originally Posted by MT
    why not? .. Do you think Paul was submissive to Christ when he was in Jail, stoned (to death twice), beaten... etc?
    If he was submissive to Christ, and Christ compares the woman to him... How can one say we are not to suffer?

    In fact, God tells us we will suffer in this world. Our mistake is to forget that we are not wrestling with flesh and blood
    This line of thought disgusts me.

    Is it perfectly okay to sit by and let a pedophile molest a child, because, hey, suffering is a part of this world, and all we're doing is trying to get past our flesh?


    Yeah f***ing right. Lemme see you say that about your own children when the local sex offender moves in next door, or relay that same argument when your daughter is married to an abusive scumbag. Yeah, I bet you'd be really willing to sit back and say "Well, life is all about suffering..."

    Quote Originally Posted by MT
    But principalities and powers of Satan. When your husband hit you... You were not in a fight with him, but with Satan for the soul of your husband. (who won?)
    Oh, that's right. All this life is one giant battle where an evil force who wants to basically punish people for following his laws, and he could be stopped by God in a heart beat; but remember, God loves you.

    Yeah, that makes perfect sense.

    Right, remember children, it's your fault and your mother's fault that your father is beating your mother. You see, you're not being good enough Christians. Satan (Screw modern psychology and let's throw our asses flatly back into the Middle Ages) is in a war with you, and you have to take those punches to prove him wrong. You see, the more pain you suffer, the better your father gets. Only, we know he doesn't get better because he's mentally ill and we know he won't get better, but hey, just keep on taking those punches. God loves you for it.


    That's disgusting.

    Quote Originally Posted by MT
    While you said you lived in fear, I can tell you that is absolutly not the spirit God has given you.
    Right, she was afraid and God didn't give the spirit to be afraid.

    I wonder why that thought didn't occur to her while her husband was breaking her vertebrae.


    Quote Originally Posted by MT
    How can you stand in judge over him? To say you forgave enough?.. or gave him enough opportunities? This is not our place.
    We do the roll we are commanded by God to fulfill.
    Yep, sure is true, MT. It's not our place to judge an abusive husband.

    I think Scarlette should just live out her life, walking into her husband's fists for the rest of her life. Some broken bones and all, but God would still think she's moral, right?

    God forbid she actually grow a pair and defend herself and her children. I suppose children who are victims of child abuse by their father or mother should just let it happen because it's "honoring thy mother and father" to not defy them, right?

    Quote Originally Posted by MT
    We are to respect the office, not the officer. The bible doesn't say "the woman is subject to the man.... If he is holy .. If he is pretty good guy.. If he doesn't sleep around.. etc".. it says the woman is subordinate to the husband. The rolls of the wife, and husband are clearly layed out.
    They are not dependent on another. IE you are not free to fail at your job, just because someone else fails at theirs. We answer to God for what we are supposed to be doing.
    No. Just no.

    Tell me how subordinate even comes close to equaling "You should have every bone broke in your body if it is pleasing to your husband."

    Seriously, I'm waiting.

    Quote Originally Posted by MT
    Your wrong, we are not free to go just because they are "wrong".
    No, MT, you are wrong. Flatly, disgusting, disingenuously, morally, ethically, abhorrently, perversely, and sickeningly wrong.

    When a man abuses a woman (or a woman a man), it causes the family to suffer. It causes the children to see horrible things that they should never, ever, ever see. It hurts humans, it hurts children, it destroys families, it makes their children grow up to have psychological problems, it forces the wife to suffer for reasons.

    And f*** no, suffering is not Just. The innocent should never suffer; we have a word for that, it's called evil.

    Your "subordinate" theory can seriously go f*** itself. It is morally reprehensible on every level imaginable.
    Last edited by Dionysus; October 16th, 2008 at 02:55 AM. Reason: repaired quote tag
    "Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities." --Voltaire

  17. #57
    Registered User

    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    U.S.A.
    Posts
    81
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Christians, Divorce, and Remarriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Gonzo View Post
    Think about this-

    If your spouse dies, it is a commonly held belief that you will be reunited in heaven. If you get remarried, and then both you and wife #2 die, are you then allowed to have a holy 3-some up on a cloud somewhere?
    I'm not religious, but these types of "arguments" that some other non-religious folk suggest annoy to the same point as "bible thumpers."


    Applying "what if?" scenarios and picking the bible is extremely ignorant.
    The bible was written 1,000 years ago. The translations for it are numerous. Ultimately, the bible is a giant rumor. Don't debate it for the literal meaning for individual words.

    Example: "Gay" 1960's -"Delighted" : "Gay" 2000's - "Homosexual"

    If you wish to disprove religion, disprove it with logic.

    Disprove it with SCIENCE!

  18. #58
    ODN Community Regular

    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    According to Christians, just south of heaven
    Posts
    1,723
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Christians, Divorce, and Remarriage

    Scarlett I would ask you this, do YOU think you were wrong for leaving your husband? Do YOU think God wanted you to suffer in a marriage where YOU were beaten? Do you feel guilty that it's your fault that your ex husband is a turd and maybe if you'd just stuck it out a little longer.....then just maybe he would have changed and all the abuse would have been worth it?

    My guess is you couldn't simply have one regret in the world. You knew that man and you knew what would become of him. One never knows what they've lost till it's gone. Did you LOSE anything when you left him? Hell no.

    So here are your options as a christian:
    1. God is love, and God wouldn't never want you to suffer in a bad relationship. After more than your fair share of trying to stick it out and resolve the issues.....you simply cut your loses and you didn't do ANYTHING wrong.

    It's Paul that states that a Husbands should LOVE their wives, just as Christ loved the church. The emphasis isn't put on the woman to love her husband. It is HIS job as the man to take CARE of her. he ALSO said Ephesians 5:27"and to present her to himself as a radiant church, WITHOUT STAIN OR WRINKLE OR ANY OTHER BLEMISH, but holy and blameless."

    Ephesians 5:29
    "After all, no one ever hated his own body, but FEEDS it and CARES for it, just as Christ does the church-"

    Was he caring for you? I thought not.

    Colossians 3:19
    "Husbands, LOVE your wives and DO NOT BE HARSH with them."

    Later in Ephesians Master's are told not to be even threaten their slaves. Surely God would think that a covenant between a man and a woman is more sacred than a bond between a slave and a master. How can a master not even threaten a slave and yet a husband be allowed to beat his wife?

    2. According to the so called "Christians" on this thread....your an adulterer. You should have taken a beating like a good wife and not given your husband any **** about it. IT was your job as a christian to let your ex husband exercise his demons and beat the **** out of you as many times as it was going to take for him to understand that he shouldn't do that. Because of YOUR weakness, Satan won your husband over and now....not only will he go to hell, but you have completely screwed your chances also. Why? Because you are an adulterous whore and as such it is impossible for you to enter Heaven. Why? Because we have to take the Bible LITERALLY according to these guys....so I'll just side step the contradictions and move right to he Bible. As an adulterer you are immoral and impure.

    Ephesians 5:5
    "For of this you can be sure: No immoral, impure or greedy person-such as an idolator-has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God."

    Colossians 3:5-6
    "Put to death, therefore, whatever belongs to your earthly nature: sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires and greed, which is idolatry. Because of these, the wrath of God is coming."

    So clearly you are not only an adulterer....you are also an idolater. You put YOURSELF before your husband and thus are a greedy wretch bound for hell.

    Seems to me that option 1......is the more realistic version of God given your circumstances. But hey.....some people LOVE guilt and can't get enough of it. SO perhaps you are an option 2 candidate?

    In Heaven there is no beer. That's why we drink it here.

    Rogue Cardinal, Member of the God-Awful Atheist Syndicate


  19. #59
    Super Moderator

    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Louisiana
    Posts
    9,161
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Christians, Divorce, and Remarriage

    Quote Originally Posted by EVEN
    Okay, so here's the terrible question...

    Are you implying that she would have to leave her second husband, in order to be forgiven for a continuing adultery?
    I don't know. I guess that is between her and God.
    While there are examples of such a thing in the Bible. (The isrealites
    divorced their foreign wives because they were reminded that God said
    they shouldn't take foreign wives.) That however was more of a recording of what happened, rather than an example of
    what it should be.




    -----
    Scarlet, I hope I have not come across in any accusatory tone, as that is not my intentions.

    Quote Originally Posted by SCARLETT
    Then, when he called me from jail, he said that when he got out, he would make my life a living hell, he would never leave me alone, and that he would kill me.
    As personal as this is, how does it effect the issue of remarriage?
    Obviously you were in a terrible situation, and I have never advocated living in those conditions (Which some seem to have overlooked)
    But what bearing does it have on remarriage? How can his failings no matter how severe justify failure on our part?


    Quote Originally Posted by SCARLETT
    To be honest, I truly don't know.
    The reason I put it that way is because that is how strongly the bond between husband and wife is.
    In truth we should pray night and day for the salvation of our spouses. When they suffer addiction
    we should be their prayer warrior (from a safe distance if need be). But divorce carries with it a
    severing of those ties. That is why it is such a serious thing.
    Our world has diluted what it means to be married, and the very idea of marriage carries no lasting responsibility.
    but that is not the way God sees it, our spouses are our own flesh.


    Quote Originally Posted by SCARLETT
    But he was not an unbeliever.
    At least, he represented himself to be a believer.
    I highly doubt it hearing your testimony.



    ----GP

    Quote Originally Posted by GP
    Completely, utterly irrelevant. Abuse is abuse.

    I defy you to explain to me why you shouldn't divorce your wife if she beats you with a shovel while intoxicated.
    You reveal your utter lack of understanding in Christian living and responsibility.
    Yes, abuse is abuse and that is why no one should live in life threatening conditions, that is why a woman should take
    action to protect herself (Or himself) from a bullying spouse.
    That however is different than divorce.

    Why shouldn't you divorce.. Well hell, if you aren't a Christian, the moment you don't "Feel" in love anymore, you should drop them like a bad habit and get yourself another "Life partner".

    But if your a Christian then those vows "till death do us part" actually mean something. It means you are connected in spirit, not just proximity.
    So you can still fulfill the role of a spouse even when your other half is in jail.. and/or you are out of harms way.

    Quote Originally Posted by GP
    What the hell is the difference between moving out and divorcing?
    Good question.
    Moving out is making a statement, getting a divorce is rejecting a responsibility.

    Quote Originally Posted by GP
    Or is your entire point that Scarlette should never have sex again otherwise she's committing adultery on her abusive husband?
    Yes. Because Adultery is sin.


    Quote Originally Posted by GP
    This line of thought disgusts me.
    That is because you lack understanding.

    Quote Originally Posted by GP
    Is it perfectly okay to sit by and let a pedophile molest a child, because, hey, suffering is a part of this world, and all we're doing is trying to get past our flesh?


    Yeah f***ing right. Lemme see you say that about your own children when the local sex offender moves in next door, or relay that same argument when your daughter is married to an abusive scumbag. Yeah, I bet you'd be really willing to sit back and say "Well, life is all about suffering..."
    Strawman.
    I do not advocate living in life threatening conditions.
    However, suffering is not an excuse to fail.

    Quote Originally Posted by GP
    Oh, that's right. All this life is one giant battle where an evil force who wants to basically punish people for following his laws, and he could be stopped by God in a heart beat; but remember, God loves you.

    Yeah, that makes perfect sense.

    Right, remember children, it's your fault and your mother's fault that your father is beating your mother. You see, you're not being good enough Christians. Satan (Screw modern psychology and let's throw our asses flatly back into the Middle Ages) is in a war with you, and you have to take those punches to prove him wrong. You see, the more pain you suffer, the better your father gets. Only, we know he doesn't get better because he's mentally ill and we know he won't get better, but hey, just keep on taking those punches. God loves you for it.


    That's disgusting.
    There is a sign on the door... it says "Christian discussion". If you don't like the rules you don't have to play.
    Christians do recognize that there is an evil force out there, and that we do fight it.
    In fact, nothing you have said has basis in Christian Doctrine. You are making a purely (emotional) appeal. How exactly has anything you said thus far, have anything to do with an interpretation of the bible?

    In fact, the response from the non Christians seems to be.
    Scarlett, forget that whole bible thing, just do what makes you happy.....
    after all, if you fallow the bible you have to go home and be beaten.

    Quote Originally Posted by GP
    Yep, sure is true, MT. It's not our place to judge an abusive husband.

    I think Scarlette should just live out her life, walking into her husband's fists for the rest of her life. Some broken bones and all, but God would still think she's moral, right?

    God forbid she actually grow a pair and defend herself and her children. I suppose children who are victims of child abuse by their father or mother should just let it happen because it's "honoring thy mother and father" to not defy them, right?
    an utter misrepresentation of my position. You seem to emotional about the subject to even listen.


    Quote Originally Posted by GP
    No. Just no.

    Tell me how subordinate even comes close to equaling "You should have every bone broke in your body if it is pleasing to your husband."

    Seriously, I'm waiting.
    Keep waiting, it's not my position, that is not what the bible says, and your losing control over yourself.

    Quote Originally Posted by GP
    Your "subordinate" theory can seriously go f*** itself. It is morally reprehensible on every level imaginable.
    That is because you mistake "subordinate" to be a license for abuse. It is not.
    You mistakenly think that there is no room for divorce when the choice is
    Get a divorce, and not get remarried. somehow you translate that into.. Stay home and get the crap beat out of you everyday.

    Let me lay out what the position is.
    1) You shouldn't get divorced (Not to be mistaken with.. stay home and have your face beat in)
    2) If you do divorce you shouldn't remarry because that is adultery to do so. (Not to be confused with "You don't deserve happiness, and you should be beaten)
    3) It is good to be reconciled to your divorced spouse. (Not to be confused as "If you want to have sex again, better call 911 before you try)

    You are losing your ability to see clearly on this issue, and if your next post does not accurately reflect the position I have put forth
    in the context given.. Don't expect a reply to your strawman fantasy paintings.
    To serve man.

  20. #60
    Registered User

    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Brooklyn NY Fuggedaboutit
    Posts
    177
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Christians, Divorce, and Remarriage

    Hey guys, just finished observing a two day Jewish holiday and will have another such next week, and then the season is past unfortunately... so I just got online and have a few posts to answer, but I saw this one and had to make an initial quick comment:

    Congratulations on living your life correctly Scarlett.

    The Jewish opinion is: when people of the other nations of the world would ask us the rules on divorce, the sages of Israel have the tradition that either the man or the woman may terminate the marriage at will. Adultery can only happen if the woman stays in the marriage and at the same time sleeps with another man. (Jews have somewhat different rules when dealing with Jewish marriage) Of course, we would council a couple considering divorce to work out differences etc.

    However, when it comes to ABUSE like getting repeatedly drunk and beating a spouse to the point of breaking bones, the clearcut answer is divorce and perhaps the use of a firearm on the abuser. (all depending on the exact details of the case).

    BTW for any out there who are not experienced social workers or theologians, who reached the same conclusion by sheer common sense, ... well hey, you get extra credit!!

    Shalom, DAK
    An idealist is willing to suffer for what they believe in.

    A fanatic is willing to make others suffer for what they believe in.

 

 
Page 3 of 9 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. The Moral Status of Animals
    By Scarlett44 in forum Philosophical Debates
    Replies: 133
    Last Post: October 8th, 2008, 03:12 PM
  2. Same-sex Marriage
    By YamiB. in forum Politics
    Replies: 35
    Last Post: March 20th, 2006, 08:24 PM
  3. Where are you, politically?
    By starcreator in forum ODN Polls
    Replies: 69
    Last Post: February 4th, 2006, 05:48 PM

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •