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  1. #1
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    Republican Calls for Anti-American Investigation

    In a television appearance that outraged Democrats are already describing as Joseph McCarthy politics, Minnesota Rep. Michelle Bachmann claimed on Friday that Barack Obama and his wife Michelle held anti-American views and couldn't be trusted in the White House. She even called for the major newspapers of the country to investigate other members of Congress to "find out if they are pro-America or anti-America."

    Appearing on MSNBC's Hardball, Bachmann went well off the reservation when it comes to leveling political charges against the Democratic nominee.

    "If we look at the collection of friends that Barack Obama has had in his life," she said, "it calls into question what Barack Obama's true beliefs and values and thoughts are. His attitudes, values, and beliefs with Jeremiah Wright on his view of the United States...is negative; Bill Ayers, his negative view of the United States. We have seen one friend after another call into question his judgment -- but also, what it is that Barack Obama really believes?"

    Goaded by a Chris Matthews to explain exactly what she was talking about (at one point Bachmann seemed to imply that liberalism was anti-Americanism), the congresswoman waded deeper into the mud.

    "Remember it was Michele Obama who said she is only recently proud of her country and so these are very anti-American views," she said. "That's not the way that most Americans feel about our country. Most Americans are wild about America and they are very concerned to have a president who doesn't share those values."

    Matthews later pressed her to name a single member of Congress other than Obama who she thought was anti-American. Bachmann, who initially wouldn't budge, called for a major "expose" into the matter.

    "What I would say is that the news media should do a penetrating expose and take a look. I wish they would. I wish the American media would take a great look at the views of the people in Congress and find out if they are pro-America or anti-America," she said. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/1..._n_135735.html



    Unreal...and just when thought I conservatives couldn't stoop any lower.

  2. #2
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    Re: Republican Calls for Anti-American Investigation

    I totally agree with her. Bachman needs to be on tv more, and start hammering home how democrats are anti-capitalist socialists who hate their own country.

  3. #3
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    Re: Republican Calls for Anti-American Investigation

    Quote Originally Posted by Booger View Post
    [INDENT]In a television appearance that outraged Democrats are already describing as Joseph McCarthy politics, Minnesota Rep. Michelle Bachmann claimed on Friday that Barack Obama and his wife Michelle held anti-American views and couldn't be trusted in the White House. She even called for the major newspapers of the country to investigate other members of Congress to "find out if they are pro-America or anti-America."
    Honestly now, does this surprise you?


    "If we look at the collection of friends that Barack Obama has had in his life," she said, "it calls into question what Barack Obama's true beliefs and values and thoughts are.
    If I had a friend that did crack every weekend does that mean I am for that? Really it doesn't. I can be against something my friends are for and vis versa. I can hang out with friends who do drugs every day but that does not mean I support that.

    His attitudes, values, and beliefs with Jeremiah Wright on his view of the United States...is negative; Bill Ayers, his negative view of the United States. We have seen one friend after another call into question his judgment -- but also, what it is that Barack Obama really believes?"
    Please someone tell us what it is that Obama really believes since obviously only a select few know this information..

    Goaded by a Chris Matthews to explain exactly what she was talking about (at one point Bachmann seemed to imply that liberalism was anti-Americanism), the congresswoman waded deeper into the mud.
    I've seen that before here on ODN

    "Remember it was Michele Obama who said she is only recently proud of her country and so these are very anti-American views," she said. "That's not the way that most Americans feel about our country. Most Americans are wild about America and they are very concerned to have a president who doesn't share those values."
    Would it be anti-American for people not to be proud of America if America sent the military into a country to rape and kill innocent? (NOTE: this has nothing to do with the war we are in now) Why would it be anti-American to not be proud of your country? Just because you are not 'proud' of your country does not mean you do not 'love' your country...
    Matthews later pressed her to name a single member of Congress other than Obama who she thought was anti-American. Bachmann, who initially wouldn't budge, called for a major "expose" into the matter.
    That's not surprising..
    Show me the government that does not infringe upon anyone's rights, and I will no longer call myself an anarchist.~Jacob Halbrooks
    "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.~Benjamin Franklin
    "Go big or Go home"~ LoLo Bean

  4. #4
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    Re: Republican Calls for Anti-American Investigation

    I'm tired of arrogant conservatives who think that their views and their views only represent the correct American Way. It is telling how lacking in substance their ideology is when the best argument they can muster is that "it's American!"

    Stop the mindless appeals to patriotism and start arguing based on facts and logic.
    Trendem

  5. #5
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    Re: Republican Calls for Anti-American Investigation

    So are you saying there are no congressmen who are in fact anti-American?

  6. #6
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    Re: Republican Calls for Anti-American Investigation

    Quote Originally Posted by evensaul View Post
    I totally agree with her. Bachman needs to be on tv more, and start hammering home how democrats are anti-capitalist socialists who hate their own country.
    Is that sarcasm?
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  7. #7
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    Re: Republican Calls for Anti-American Investigation

    If I had a friend that did crack every weekend does that mean I am for that? Really it doesn't. I can be against something my friends are for and vis versa. I can hang out with friends who do drugs every day but that does not mean I support that.
    You say that hanging out with someone does not mean that you support whatever actions they participate in. I agree, it does not necessarily mean that at all. Let's look at what you hanging out regularly with a crackhead COULD possibly mean.

    1. He is a friend and you are trying to reform him.
    2. He's a friend and you look the other way and couldn't care less about his personal habits.
    3. You're writing a book about crack addicts.
    4. You're a crack dealer.
    5. You're Bobby Brown.
    6. You have a sick fetish for watching someone smoke crack.
    7. You're waiting till he passes out so you can steal his TV.
    8. You're CPR qualified and waiting for your chance to put your skills to the test.
    9. You think his sister is hot and you're trying to get her number from him.
    10. You're Marion Barry.

    The fact of the matter is, if you hang out with a crackhead there's no way in the world for anyone to know why you hang out with them. But you know what? If you never hung out with that crackhead no one could speculate about the ten reasons above or any other potential reasons.

    One thing is absolutely true: people have a tendency, albeit not an absolute, to associate with those who have similar views and values to their own.

  8. #8
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    Re: Republican Calls for Anti-American Investigation

    "GoldPhoenix disagrees: Start supporting your claims (which we know you can't) or quit posting them."

    Stop negrepping base on disagreement with opposing views, GP. You made it very clear in the divorce thread that you negrepped MT for his personal views, which you found "disgusting". You're doing it to me here.

    You are also still looking for payback for my negrep of you, just as you did in the "Obama violated foreign relations law" thread, with a transparent reprisal negrep.

    Your blatant abuse of the neg rep system is a violation of the rules...but I'm sure you don't care. You'll bully your way with the system, knowing that your negreps are more damaging than what I may do in response. Pretty juvenile, and sad, GP, to make yourself feel superior that way.

  9. #9
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    Re: Republican Calls for Anti-American Investigation

    Quote Originally Posted by Trendem View Post
    I'm tired of arrogant conservatives who think that their views and their views only represent the correct American Way. It is telling how lacking in substance their ideology is when the best argument they can muster is that "it's American!"

    Stop the mindless appeals to patriotism and start arguing based on facts and logic.
    I make an honest attempt refrain from such appeals, and I have not called Obama "anti-American". But regardless of whether you think Obama's association with Ayers is pertinent to the Presidential race, can we at least agree that bombing government buildings and posing for photos while trampling on an American flag is anti-American?

  10. #10
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    Re: Republican Calls for Anti-American Investigation

    Quote Originally Posted by cds69 View Post
    I make an honest attempt refrain from such appeals, and I have not called Obama "anti-American". But regardless of whether you think Obama's association with Ayers is pertinent to the Presidential race, can we at least agree that bombing government buildings and posing for photos while trampling on an American flag is anti-American?
    As is telling radicals to shoot ATF agents in the head. Who did that? G. Gordon Liddy, who McCain is friends with and has had a relationship with.

    I've posted this twice. Twice it has been ignored by the conservatives. Its time to get over William Ayers.
    McCain and friends
    Catch22

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  11. #11
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    Re: Republican Calls for Anti-American Investigation

    Quote Originally Posted by catch22 View Post
    As is telling radicals to shoot ATF agents in the head. Who did that? G. Gordon Liddy, who McCain is friends with and has had a relationship with.

    I've posted this twice. Twice it has been ignored by the conservatives. Its time to get over William Ayers.
    McCain and friends
    The statements by Liddy are rarely put into the context in which they were made. In the 90's the ATF was out of control. They were routinely making mistakes by raiding the wrong home, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by G. Gordon Liddy
    I was talking about a situation in which law enforced agents comes smashing into a house, doesn't say who they are, and their guns are out, they're shooting, and they're in the wrong place. This has happened time and time again. The ATF has gone in and gotten the wrong guy in the wrong place. The law is that if somebody is shooting at you, using deadly force, the mere fact that they are a law enforcement officer, if they are in the wrong, does not mean you are obliged to allow yourself to be killed so your kinfolk can have a wrongful death action. You are legally entitled to defend yourself and I was speaking of exactly those kind of situations. If you're going to do that, you should know that they're wearing body armor so you should use a head shot. Now all I'm doing is stating the law, but all the nuances in there got left out when the story got repeated.
    Now, with that being said, I would say that the press should definitely ask some tough but respectful questions of both Obama AND McCain regarding these and any other questionable associations.

    I'm all for equal, unbiased media scrutiny of both candidates.

    The Liddy connection does give me a little pause, but I haven't seen any stories characterizing their "friendship" as any more than exactly what it appears to be. It doesn't seem that they conducted any business together, or had any extensive connection other than McCain's appearance on Liddy's radio program.

    And for the record, I do think that Liddy is an ass and that his actions during the Nixon era were definitely "anti-American" in that they were completely anti-democratic. I don't listen to his radio program and would urge anyone looking for some conservative radio programming that is more on the intellectual level rather than the emotional level to discount the Liddy's and Savage's on the dial and check out Neal Boortz and Michael Reagan.

  12. #12
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    Re: Republican Calls for Anti-American Investigation

    [QUOTE=cds69;339342]The statements by Liddy are rarely put into the context in which they were made. In the 90's the ATF was out of control. They were routinely making mistakes by raiding the wrong home, etc.
    [QUOTE]

    Ok, the ATF was a little out of control. But seriously- "Aim for the head...kill the sons of bitches"?

    If the police hit on a bad string on raids, should we start calling for them to be killed? If the president goes into a war and finds out the WMDs weren't there, should we call for snipers to take aim?

    There is a line separating telling citizens to defend their rights and telling them to kill government agents and fellow citizens, and Liddy crossed that line.
    Catch22

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  13. #13
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    Re: Republican Calls for Anti-American Investigation

    Ok, the ATF was a little out of control. But seriously- "Aim for the head...kill the sons of bitches"?

    If the police hit on a bad string on raids, should we start calling for them to be killed? If the president goes into a war and finds out the WMDs weren't there, should we call for snipers to take aim?

    There is a line separating telling citizens to defend their rights and telling them to kill government agents and fellow citizens, and Liddy crossed that line.[/QUOTE]

    Don't get me wrong, I certainly don't agree with the statements that Liddy made. I think they're stupid and likely to get people killed. I was simply stating that there was a context that was being left out.

    But you're statement about snipers is pretty far out in strawmanland. Of course no one should encourage sniper fire at Bush based on the absence of WMD's. But if George Bush crashes through my door with a HK-91 locked and loaded, he very well may receive a hot lead enema.

  14. #14
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    Re: Republican Calls for Anti-American Investigation

    Quote Originally Posted by evensaul View Post
    You are also still looking for payback for my negrep of you, just as you did in the "Obama violated foreign relations law" thread, with a transparent reprisal negrep.

    Your blatant abuse of the neg rep system is a violation of the rules...but I'm sure you don't care. You'll bully your way with the system, knowing that your negreps are more damaging than what I may do in response. Pretty juvenile, and sad, GP, to make yourself feel superior that way.
    Several notes here, y'all.

    1) The post I'm replying to is technically spam. If you (any of you) feel that someone has violated the rules of ODN, report them. Don't reply. You find yourself at risk for spam violation if it's in a debate section. This is MCN, it's more lenient. Just keep that in mind.

    2) GP's justified his neg rep by charging that you haven't supported claims. Supporting claims is, itself, a rule here at ODN. Keep that in mind, as well.

    3) GP's neg rep is NOT in violation of our rep policy. Not supporting claims is an issue with quality of posting, not content. Whether it's factually correct or not is not the point. It is a valid reason to neg.

    There are two reasons I bring this up in-thread. The first is that many people don't seem to read or understand the rep rules. We've had rampant illicit negging going on, and we've had rampant reports of rep violations that weren't violations at all. I hope this helps clear up some of the issue being in a public forum.

    If anyone feels the need to reply to this post, do so in PM.

    Thanks, LP.
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    Re: Republican Calls for Anti-American Investigation

    I will repeat my question: is it somehow immoral or incorrect to charge someone with being anti-American, if they have, in fact, expressed sentiments denying America's fundamental goodness or value?

  16. #16
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    Re: Republican Calls for Anti-American Investigation

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinBrowning View Post
    I will repeat my question: is it somehow immoral or incorrect to charge someone with being anti-American, if they have, in fact, expressed sentiments denying America's fundamental goodness or value?
    1) Define fundamental "goodness" and "value" in this context. Please be specific.

    2) Is every action America takes fundamentally good? Avoidance of this question will reveal the bankrupt name calling position that you are in reality supporting.

    3) Please provide proper argumentation and support to the idea that disagreement with American actions is "anti-American". Are you a homogeneous people that must all conform to a specific nationalist ideology (in this case fundamentalist neo-conservative) or otherwise be "anti-American"?

    I will make a guess that you will avoid these question since you prefer to name call your opponents "anti-american" then to actually deal with their arguments.
    HINT: This is a trick question

  17. #17
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    Re: Republican Calls for Anti-American Investigation

    I love watching John Stewart ride on you divisive, ass-backwards, anti-American under the guise of being pro-American conservative idiots:




 

 

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