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  1. #1
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    Obama Presidency and the world.

    With the odds of an Obama presidency increasing, it's interesting to note how the world is reacting and preparing itself to the change. There may be the first hints in Israel of such a change in rhetoric over Iran as these two Haartez articles indicate.

    Israel expects U.S.-Iran talks under Obama

    Israel expects the U.S. to initiate direct talks with Tehran if Senator Barack Obama is elected president, in which case a critical Israeli interest would be to condition any talks between the West and Iran on halting uranium enrichment, according to a senior government source.

    The source said discussions have been underway for months between Israel's Foreign Ministry, the Atomic Energy Commission, the National Security Council, the Mossad, the Defense Ministry and academic experts. The significance of the discussions is that they were coordinated by the foreign minister and Kadima chairwoman, prime minister-designate Tzipi Livni.

    The discussions studied a number of scenarios between Iran and the West. According to one, following an Obama win, the new president will start a dialogue with Iran to pressure it to stop its nuclear program.

    ANALYSIS / Israel must adapt to reality of U.S.-Iran dialogue

    Among the Israeli officials who say that an attack on Iran is not imminent is MK Isaac Ben-Israel (Kadima). Ben-Israel told Maariv that prime minister-designate Tzipi Livni "believes that if Iran's nuclear project is not stopped by the world, Israel will have no choice but to attack." But he also said Israel still has time. "It doesn't mean we're going to bomb in three months."
    A good hockey player plays where the puck is. A great hockey player plays where the puck is going to be.
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  2. #2
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    Re: Obama Presidency and the world.

    Vandaler, I'm not sure how anything you posted could be considered a change in Israel's rhetoric regarding Iran. Israel's stated position has, and continues to be that an Iran with nuclear capabilities is not acceptable, and that Israel will take whatever measures are necessary to prevent Iran from attaining those capabilities.

    I assure you that Israel is not thrilled with the prospect of an Obama presidency. Especially in light of statements like this:

    Quote Originally Posted by Israel’s Haaretz News


    Biden quoted as saying that Israel will have to reconcile itself to a nuclear Iran

    01/09/2008

    Democratic vice-presidential candidate Joe Biden was quoted Monday as telling senior Israeli officials behind closed doors that the Jewish state will have to reconcile itself to a nuclear Iran.

    In the unsourced report, Army Radio also quoted Biden as saying that he opposed “opening a additional military and diplomatic front.”

    Biden, chairman of the powerful Senate Foreign Relations Committee, has long been considered strongly pro-Israel. His nomination as Barack Obama’s running mate had been expected to shore up the Democrats’ strength with U.S. Jewish voters.

    Army Radio said Israeli officials expressed “amazement” over the remarks attributed to him.

    “Israel will have to reconcile itself with the nuclearization of Iran,” Army Radio quoted Biden as telling the unnamed officials.

    “It’s doubtful if the economic sanctions will be effective, and I am against opening an additional military and diplomatic front.”

    Last year, in a widely quoted interview with year the Jewish American Shalom TV, Biden said, “I am a Zionist. You don’t have to be a Jew to be a Zionist,” adding that “Israel is the single greatest strength that America has in the Middle East,” and that its presence as a strategic ally meant that America need station far fewer troops and warships in the region.

  3. #3
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    Re: Obama Presidency and the world.

    Quote Originally Posted by CDS69
    I assure you that Israel is not thrilled with the prospect of an Obama presidency.
    Thrilled ? I don't know that I hinted that they are. However, it's still interesting to see how they are reacting and talking it up in light of the eventuality of an Obama Presidency.

    The OP is a softening up of the rhetoric. Not so long ago, (Before the Georgian War and the financial crisis) the tone was much sharper and the hopes that the Bush Administration would assist in some kind of militarily action was clear. The above is much softer and indicates that such a eventuality is not being pursued anymore.
    Last edited by Vandaler; October 20th, 2008 at 11:04 AM.
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  4. #4
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    Re: Obama Presidency and the world.

    Biden admits that there will be a major political crisis in the world created deliberately to test Obama's mettle.

    It seems he's admitting that much of the world thinks Obama is spineless. It's doubtful such a crisis would be created to test McCain, and Biden doesn't say it would happen regardless who is president. Or am I somehow misreading this?

    Also, note that Biden says Obama will win "God willing". If Palin said that, wouldn't there be a huge controversy about whether she thinks God is on the Republican side? But will the media care that Biden said that?

    http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalra...to-suppor.html


    October 20, 2008

    ABC News' Matthew Jaffe Reports: Sen. Joe Biden, D-Del., on Sunday guaranteed that if elected, Sen. Barack Obama., D-Ill., will be tested by an international crisis within his first six months in power and he will need supporters to stand by him as he makes tough, and possibly unpopular, decisions.

    "Mark my words," the Democratic vice presidential nominee warned at the second of his two Seattle fundraisers Sunday. "It will not be six months before the world tests Barack Obama like they did John Kennedy. The world is looking. We're about to elect a brilliant 47-year-old senator president of the United States of America. Remember I said it standing here if you don't remember anything else I said. Watch, we're gonna have an international crisis, a generated crisis, to test the mettle of this guy."

    "I can give you at least four or five scenarios from where it might originate," Biden said to Emerald City supporters, mentioning the Middle East and Russia as possibilities. "And he's gonna need help. And the kind of help he's gonna need is, he's gonna need you - not financially to help him - we're gonna need you to use your influence, your influence within the community, to stand with him. Because it's not gonna be apparent initially, it's not gonna be apparent that we're right."

    Not only will the next administration have to deal with foreign affairs issues, Biden warned, but also with the current economic crisis.

    "Gird your loins," Biden told the crowd. "We're gonna win with your help, God willing, we're gonna win, but this is not gonna be an easy ride. This president, the next president, is gonna be left with the most significant task. It's like cleaning the Augean stables, man. This is more than just, this is more than – think about it, literally, think about it – this is more than just a capital crisis, this is more than just markets. This is a systemic problem we have with this economy."

  5. #5
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    Re: Obama Presidency and the world.

    It seems he's admitting that much of the world thinks Obama is spineless. It's doubtful such a crisis would be created to test McCain, and Biden doesn't say it would happen regardless who is president. Or am I somehow misreading this?
    You read a lot of strange things into what people say. But then again Biden says some strange things at times. He's probably right, although I think most Crisis are manufactured when it comes to international events. I have no idea why they would specifically test Obama just to test him. I can see another country making a play just on the chance that Obama will let them get away with it. Dems actually have a record of reacting very strongly to foreign military threats as we discussed in another thread. Anyone testing him is likely to find him more aggressive than McCain, not less. I can't say I'm happy about that but it's likely true.

    I've no doubt Obama will be tested and tested hard. He'll probably have some slip ups too. But ultimately I find him to be smart and wise so I think he will do well balancing force and diplomacy.

    Also, note that Biden says Obama will win "God willing". If Palin said that, wouldn't there be a huge controversy about whether she thinks God is on the Republican side? But will the media care that Biden said that?
    No. Pretty much every candidate says that kind of thing. They are all Christians after all.

  6. #6
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    Re: Obama Presidency and the world.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sigfried View Post
    You read a lot of strange things into what people say. ...

    I've no doubt Obama will be tested and tested hard. He'll probably have some slip ups too. But ultimately I find him to be smart and wise so I think he will do well balancing force and diplomacy.
    I didn't read anything into the story. Biden said what he said. He can think of a bunch of possible crises that will be intentionally generated because others think Obama may be weak.

    And again, there's no suggestion this would happen with McCain as President.


    _________________________________ Post Merged _________________________________


    Here is another story on Biden's words from the Washington Times.

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...-attack-obama/

    Biden also says that when Obama has to respond to the crisis, the American people will have to keep supporting him despite any evidence that Obama is taking the wrong approach. Wow. He's predicting a huge crisis generated by our enemies to test Obama, and that Obama will appear to handle it poorly! What great support from the veep candidate. Obama better put a muzzle his running mate pretty soon, or Biden could sink the ship.
    Last edited by evensaul; October 21st, 2008 at 11:06 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

  7. #7
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    Re: Obama Presidency and the world.

    Quote Originally Posted by evensaul View Post
    I didn't read anything into the story. Biden said what he said. He can think of a bunch of possible crises that will be intentionally generated because others think Obama may be weak.
    If you didn't read anything into it, show me where he says others think Obama is weak. I don't see that.

    Anyhow, I agree that Biden is making some strange statements there.

  8. #8
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    Re: Obama Presidency and the world.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sigfried View Post
    If you didn't read anything into it, show me where he says others think Obama is weak. I don't see that.

    Anyhow, I agree that Biden is making some strange statements there.
    Oh....that part. Biden's comparison to JFK and the Cuban Missile Crisis was pretty explicit. Years later the Russians admitted that it was a test of Kennedy's strength, because they thought he showed weakness during the Bay of Pigs fiasco.

  9. #9
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    Re: Obama Presidency and the world.

    Quote Originally Posted by evensaul View Post
    Oh....that part. Biden's comparison to JFK and the Cuban Missile Crisis was pretty explicit. Years later the Russians admitted that it was a test of Kennedy's strength, because they thought he showed weakness during the Bay of Pigs fiasco.
    I think you are reading into that your own opinions as opposed to whatever Biden was trying to say. I doubt he would be trying to paint Obama as weak in any way. More that he is unknown and thus folks will be trying to see if he is weak or not.

    They should pay attention to history. Don't test democratic presidents. They are often over eager to prove their decisiveness and strength.

  10. #10
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    Re: Obama Presidency and the world.

    Quote Originally Posted by cds69 View Post
    I assure you that Israel is not thrilled with the prospect of an Obama presidency.
    The only thing that Israel can possibly be thrilled about is that it gives them an opportunity to launch an attack on Iran like they have done to Iraq in the past.

  11. #11
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    Re: Obama Presidency and the world.

    Quote Originally Posted by evensaul View Post
    It seems he's admitting that much of the world thinks Obama is spineless.
    Spineless, of course, would be your word. So what if the world wanted to test the junior senator--a democrat coming into office after 8 years of the Wild West. Wait...you're not suggesting that America should vote out of fear, are you?

    Also, note that Biden says Obama will win "God willing". If Palin said that, wouldn't there be a huge controversy about whether she thinks God is on the Republican side? But will the media care that Biden said that?
    Nope, the media won't care. Wanna know why? Because the Christian fundies typically fall under the right wing, and because people are smart enough to discern a figure of speech versus a bona fide belief that God has appointed you.
    "Today a young man on acid realized that all matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration, that we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively. There is no such thing as death, life is only a dream, and we're the imagination of ourselves." --Bill Hicks

  12. #12
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    Re: Obama Presidency and the world.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sigfried View Post
    I think you are reading into that your own opinions as opposed to whatever Biden was trying to say. I doubt he would be trying to paint Obama as weak in any way. More that he is unknown and thus folks will be trying to see if he is weak or not.

    They should pay attention to history. Don't test democratic presidents. They are often over eager to prove their decisiveness and strength.
    Wait...so you are arguing then...that enemies of the US...will test Obama because they think he is strong, will retaliate, will be a challenge? If so...you do realize that this may be a global first in the history of mankind (an enemy nation challenging another they fear or are concerned about)...don't you? What sense does that make?

    Biden disagrees with your assessment over his own statement. Biden further clarifies that Obama is not spineless (weak). This type of language is a conclusion that contradicts the subject's perspective of the situation (the enemy nation). Nothing is being read into what Biden said...proper English grammar is being used. There's a difference.

    Either you didn't hear what Biden said...or your understanding of English grammar is lacking Sig.
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  13. #13
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    Re: Obama Presidency and the world.

    Quote Originally Posted by Apokalupsis View Post
    Wait...so you are arguing then...that enemies of the US...will test Obama because they think he is strong, will retaliate, will be a challenge? If so...you do realize that this may be a global first in the history of mankind (an enemy nation challenging another they fear or are concerned about)...don't you? What sense does that make?
    No. I'm saying that I think Biden was insinuating that they would test him because he is an unknown, not because they think he is weak. I think Biden is slightly off his rocker there, but thats what I would assume he means. Its true though that you test unknowns. I'm a big strategy game guy and against a new opponent your first attack or offensive move is often just a test to see what he will do. Learn your opponent and you are one step closer to winning.

    I'm confident others will test Obama in various ways, I doubt the "international crisis" part though. Right now most of the world is too busy figuring out their banking woes to be challenging the US in any serious way. I'm sure Iran and Korea will have a go at finding out how he operates in some way. But the test could be an attack, or a hand of friendship, hard to say.

    Quote Originally Posted by Apokalupsis View Post
    Biden disagrees with your assessment over his own statement. Biden further clarifies that Obama is not spineless (weak). This type of language is a conclusion that contradicts the subject's perspective of the situation (the enemy nation). Nothing is being read into what Biden said...proper English grammar is being used. There's a difference.
    Care to quote the part you mean? I don't see it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Apokalupsis View Post
    Either you didn't hear what Biden said...or your understanding of English grammar is lacking Sig.
    Show me I'm wrong and I'll admit I'm wrong. It wouldn't be the first time.

  14. #14
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    Re: Obama Presidency and the world.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sigfried View Post
    No. I'm saying that I think Biden was insinuating that they would test him because he is an unknown, not because they think he is weak.
    Can you support this? Or is it merely speculation?

    I'm confident others will test Obama in various ways, I doubt the "international crisis" part though.
    Do you think it is wise to have a Vice President be "off his rocker"? Do you think this shows good judgment on the part of Obama for choosing someone who is "off their rocker"...to be their #2 guy and to counsel him in foreign affairs?
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  15. #15
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    Re: Obama Presidency and the world.

    Quote Originally Posted by Apokalupsis View Post
    Can you support this? Or is it merely speculation?
    It is merely a reasoned argument.
    1. Biden would be unlikely to say something that he thought hurt his chances to be VP or would cast a bad light on his candidate.
    2. Biden would think calling his presidential candidate weak to be something to hurt his chances of winning.
    3. Therefore Biden would not willingly imply that his candidate is weak.
    4. A reasonable alternative is to suggest that the reason he feels people would test Obama is because they are unsure of his strength or temperment.

    Do you find fault witht that reasoning?

    Quote Originally Posted by Apokalupsis View Post
    Do you think it is wise to have a Vice President be "off his rocker"? Do you think this shows good judgment on the part of Obama for choosing someone who is "off their rocker"...to be their #2 guy and to counsel him in foreign affairs?
    I don't think biden is off his rocker in general, but he does say things that show he has peculiar thoughts on occasion, and this one warrented a "slightly off his rocker" from me. Generaly I like what he says 80% of the time so I'm willing to allow a certain ammount of non-sense. I'd perefer less of course. I've said a few daft things myself from time to time.

    Is Obama's judgement good on Biden. Mixed I'd say. It might not have been the best pick but it was a decent one. I think thier political philosophies are pretty well lined up and that Biden can indeed help Obama navigate the senate. It was a modest pick on the campaign front, but I think a good pick for an actual VP if he wins. He gives Obama a very usefull ally.

  16. #16
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    Re: Obama Presidency and the world.

    Obama's biological father and his stepfather were both Muslim men. That makes him a Muslim in the eyes of Islam. The names "Barrack and Hussein" are both Muslim names. Obama attended Mosque (infrequently) with his family in Asia. In both of the private schools Obama attneded, he was registered as a Muslim and during school hours gathered with other Muslim students for religious instruction. Obama has written and spoken of how Rev. Wright, a radical Black separatist Minister in the mould of Louis Farrakhan -- is the reason he (Obama) is a Christian.

    In the eys of Muslims it can be very easily construed that Obama is still a Muslim and merely " acting like an infidel" as is prescribed in the Koran.

    CHECK OUT THIS LINK.

    http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/mesh/20...abs_for_obama/


    "Quite honestly, though, I don’t think the relative love-fest at this year’s meeting is all ascribable either to regional shifts or to the conference organizers’ choice of speakers. The most powerful explanation for the change is evident in the overwhelming fact that all anyone at this conference really wants to talk about is Barack Obama.

    A friend from the Gulf tells me her young relative was so excited about the Democratic candidate that he tried to donate money over the Internet, as he’d heard so many young Americans were doing. Then he found out he had to be a U.S. citizen to do so. Another young woman, visiting from next-door Saudi Arabia, said that all her friends in Riyadh are “for Obama.” The symbolism of a major American presidential candidate with the middle name of Hussein, who went to elementary school in Indonesia, certainly speaks to Muslims abroad."


    How many hundreds of millions of campaign dollars came to Obama from foreign sources in very small amounts via the internet?

    As in most illegal activities -- usually only the dumb ones get caught.

    Hamas funds Obama's campaign
    http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.p...w&pageId=71431

    JERUSALEM – Palestinian brothers inside the Hamas-controlled Gaza Strip are listed in government election filings as having donated $29,521.54 to Sen. Barack Obama
    's campaign.

 

 

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