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  1. #1
    Wukong
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    Election 2008 Rigged?

    I'm a total newbie to Politics, it's one of the topics I consciously avoid. However, this election was the first one in which I could actually participate, and my peers, extraordinarily excited about this, began chattering politics 24/7. Most, if not all, were on the Obama bandwagon. I myself thought that the 2 hours it would have taken to go to the voting booth, wait on line, vote, and come back were a waste.

    I have a feeling that this election was thrown. I believe that McCain and/or shadowy leaders of the Republican Party willingly threw the election to the Democrats.

    My reasoning is that the campaign made McCain look like a total joke. McCain's choice of a running mate was either the best way to throw the election, or the stupidest mistake of the entire campaign. Rather than think that a political figure could fail that badly, I prefer to think that it was a purposeful loss.

    Thoughts o.O?

  2. #2
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    Re: Election 2008 Rigged?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wukong View Post
    I have a feeling that this election was thrown. I believe that McCain and/or shadowy leaders of the Republican Party willingly threw the election to the Democrats.

    My reasoning is that the campaign made McCain look like a total joke. McCain's choice of a running mate was either the best way to throw the election, or the stupidest mistake of the entire campaign. Rather than think that a political figure could fail that badly, I prefer to think that it was a purposeful loss.
    It sure seems like it, doesn't it? I mean, can Republicans really be that stupid?

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    Re: Election 2008 Rigged?

    Thje only "conspiracy" this year was the countless ilegal votes cast fro Obama. ACORN is just the tip of the ice berg.

    The US does not require one to prove citizenship in order to vote. Additionally there is no national system for checking if the same person has voted in more than one location.

  4. #4
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    Re: Election 2008 Rigged?

    Pretty certain you have to have a social and an address to get a vote, Spart.
    "Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities." --Voltaire

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    Re: Election 2008 Rigged?

    Quote Originally Posted by Spartacus View Post
    Thje only "conspiracy" this year was the countless ilegal votes cast fro Obama. ACORN is just the tip of the ice berg.

    The US does not require one to prove citizenship in order to vote. Additionally there is no national system for checking if the same person has voted in more than one location.

    Spart how many people will really stand in a queue for lets say 1 hour, be exhausted and frustrated after finally getting the chance to vote, and then drive to another location to repeat the same process all over again?

    Logically this doesn't make much sense. If there were voters who did this, they actually deserve to vote twice.
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  6. #6
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    Re: Election 2008 Rigged?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wukong View Post
    I'm a total newbie to Politics, it's one of the topics I consciously avoid. However, this election was the first one in which I could actually participate, and my peers, extraordinarily excited about this, began chattering politics 24/7. Most, if not all, were on the Obama bandwagon. I myself thought that the 2 hours it would have taken to go to the voting booth, wait on line, vote, and come back were a waste.

    I have a feeling that this election was thrown. I believe that McCain and/or shadowy leaders of the Republican Party willingly threw the election to the Democrats.

    My reasoning is that the campaign made McCain look like a total joke. McCain's choice of a running mate was either the best way to throw the election, or the stupidest mistake of the entire campaign. Rather than think that a political figure could fail that badly, I prefer to think that it was a purposeful loss.

    Thoughts o.O?
    I think McCain was just that stupid and that desperate. He needed someone to solidify his toe hold among the religious right, and Alaskan Soccer mom fit the bill.

    She was picked up on a party recommendation and never properly vetted, I think. Someone told someone who told someone she might do it, and look how popular she is with her constituients, and the next thing you know...she's on the hook to be VP.

    I don't think it took long for McCain to realize a mistake had been made, and her release on the public put some fire into the campaign that had been sorely lacking.

    However, by then the thing started unraveling and it was revealed just how...woefully ignorant Palin actually was. Massive attempts to educate her and prep her were begun, but too late. Interviews were done, things were said, and it wasn't long before the new wore off for any and all swing voters.

    Of course hard core right wingers would vote for her regardless, but the new and the undecideds weren't so sure.

    Overall, it wasn't THE mistake that cost McCain the election, but it was certainly a large part of it.
    But if you do not find an intelligent companion, a wise and well-behaved person going the same way as yourself, then go on your way alone, like a king abandoning a conquered kingdom, or like a great elephant in the deep forest. - Buddha

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    Re: Election 2008 Rigged?

    Quote Originally Posted by Spartacus View Post
    Thje only "conspiracy" this year was the countless ilegal votes cast fro Obama. ACORN is just the tip of the ice berg.
    So is it your contention that McCain would have won had it not been for the "countless ilegal votes cast fro Obama"?

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    Re: Election 2008 Rigged?

    Follow the money. $720 million v $120 million. Hmm. Where do the campaign funds go? Advertising? It is good to own the media. Elections have been very, very good to TV. The media loves money.

    Rigged presidential elections?

    1992. 57% voted AGAINST the winner.
    2000. 52.1% voted AGAINST the winner.
    2008. 52.7 voted FOR the winner.

    Depends what you mean by rigged or stolen. And yeah I know the Electoral College elects the President. Still, I stand in awe of that 1992 election winner.

    Shenanigans award for 2008 goes to the Minnesota US Senate race.
    It was once written "To thine own self be true". But how do we know who we really are? Every man must confront the monster within himself, if he is ever to find peace without.

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    Re: Election 2008 Rigged?

    I wish we had a multi-party system, then there would be less of this worrying about things being rigged.

    I believe there is something fishy going on. I believe the USA should be renamed to the United Socialist States of America...

    Obama has so many discrepencies it is pathetic. He has so many people that want him dead it is pathetic.


    Palin? She helped. Alot of people that weren't biased liked how down to reality she was, but media and liberal peoples hated her.

  10. #10
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    Re: Election 2008 Rigged?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wukong View Post
    Thoughts o.O?
    As you get older you will discover time and time again that people can make really stupid mistakes, even when they are smart and experienced.

    Conspiracies aren't needed when stupidity can get the job done much more easily.

    But McCain had a real uphill battle no mater what and I think he did quite decently all things considered. And Palin looked like a winner until she opened her mouth without a script.

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    Re: Election 2008 Rigged?

    I wondered about conspiracy myself. Watch the primary debates between Clinton and Obama. She hammered his ass flat in every debate. Yet, she lost the primaries. Think about that. In every debate, at every speech, Clinton had concise, specific, answers and policies to how to fix and forward America (policies I didn't agree with entirely, but at least she threw down some details). Obama didn't (which is how and why she beat the yellow off his teeth at every encounter). Then McCain appears...and flops almost as bad Kerry did against Bush in '04 (tell me THAT wasn't a circus from the start).

    It seemed...off. Here was the Republican War machine which had, almost every media outlet agreed, mastered the art of smear and ruin, and yet they couldn't even put a dent in Obama. And it's not like there was a shortage of things to attack either. He spent 20+ years in Wright's Church, Ayers hosted a party for him that "launched" his career in Chicago, he was backed by Rezko and Blagoyevich, he associated with ACORN, etc. But what'd they do? "He's a muslim! A black and a muslim! His middle name is Hussein!!" Here was the GOP, which had meticulously ripped into Kerry's WAR RECORD as a VIETNAM VET (THAT takes some balls and missing heart), and they couldn't muster the fortitude to hit him where it might hurt?

    Yeah, I'm not so sure I'd say conspiracy, but I'm certainly not willing to say the last three elections were genuine.
    But in your hearts revere Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect, keeping a clear conscience, so that those who speak maliciously against your good behavior in Christ may be ashamed of their slander.
    1 Peter 3:15-16

  12. #12
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    Re: Election 2008 Rigged?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Hyde View Post
    ...Here was the Republican War machine which had, almost every media outlet agreed, mastered the art of smear and ruin, and yet they couldn't even put a dent in Obama.
    There is no such thing as a "Republican War machine" but there used to be, people running the Republican campaigns in such a way. People such as Karl Rove and Karen Hughes that where extremely effective.

    Who ran McCain's campaign ? I follow politics rather closely and I don't even know. It was the bland team assembled by McCain that lost him any chance of winning. His campaign lacked focus and direction.
    A good hockey player plays where the puck is. A great hockey player plays where the puck is going to be.
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  13. #13
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    Re: Election 2008 Rigged?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vandaler View Post
    Who ran McCain's campaign ? I follow politics rather closely and I don't even know. It was the bland team assembled by McCain that lost him any chance of winning. His campaign lacked focus and direction.
    That just sounds weird to me that a veteran politician would assemble a group of nobodies when there was available talent that had already been tempered and tested.
    But in your hearts revere Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect, keeping a clear conscience, so that those who speak maliciously against your good behavior in Christ may be ashamed of their slander.
    1 Peter 3:15-16

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    Re: Election 2008 Rigged?

    Look, there was no conspiracy. McCain had a lot going against him. It's no secret Bush was unpopular with the masses, the economy had tanked, houses were foreclosing, two endless wars, record high deficit, on and on. Besides that, the Conservatives had turned their backs on McCain in 2003 for being critical of the war. He went on a massive campaign in 2004 to regain the Conservatives' trust, but it never really completely materialized. His choice of Palin was actually brilliant because it excited the Conservative base to go out and vote for the Republican ticket. But it was not enough. The damage that McCain had done to himself concerning Bush's handling of the Iraq War had never entirely healed. On top of that, during the campain, Palin wallowed too much in attacking Obama's "associations" and not enough in presenting viable solutions to fixing what ails America. And then let's not forget when McCain said "the fundamentals of the economy are strong" on the very day the economy started its nosedive.

    So, in a nutshell, McCain never completely regained the trust of the Conservatives, and he and Palin ran a bad campaign. If anything, you can blame Obama's win on Bush's failures.

  15. #15
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    Re: Election 2008 Rigged?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Hyde View Post
    That just sounds weird to me that a veteran politician would assemble a group of nobodies when there was available talent that had already been tempered and tested.
    I'm not sure, it's just to easy to explain something weird by a conspiracy.

    My opinion is that the Republican brand, characterized by politics of division and smear has run it's course and the Republican's, surprised by McCain's winning the primary process, never had time to redefine what it means to vote Republican.

    Talking points such has; "Obama never took on his own party like McCain and Palin did", were just plain weird.

    It takes time to redefine a party, and to redefine it in a way to produce a victory. I argue that the confusion and lack of focus is perfectly explainable. It was not the result of lack of talent, but rather the lack of time in which to devise a winning strategy and questionable decisions along the way just made the matters worse.
    A good hockey player plays where the puck is. A great hockey player plays where the puck is going to be.
    - Wayne Gretzky

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    Re: Election 2008 Rigged?

    Quote Originally Posted by GeneralZap View Post
    I wish we had a multi-party system, then there would be less of this worrying about things being rigged.
    What makes you so sure General?

    We have a multi-party system and I can't say it really changes much.

    What makes you think this?
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    Re: Election 2008 Rigged?

    Profit yields wealth for personal stability and security. Greed uses wealth as an enabling power to rule over others. The power to tell people how to run their lives. The power to forcefully take the fruits of other's labors and to solidify the ruler's power until the populace is no better than slaves. The big bankers are the major players in this concept of greed. The politicians, all too willing accomplices whose pre-election rhetoric embraces change for the good of the nation only to dissolve post-election to the using of the nations resources for the good of their political party. The media moguls shape, filter, and disseminate censored information to the populace.

    By working within, controlling communications, subtly playing on human emotions and fears, exaggerating small differences between people to significant threats, pushing those fears to hysteria so as to create divisions in the nation, and so separate the populace that teetering at the abyss of chaos, the call will come from the people themselves for the stable secure life style of the slave. Those insidious techniques eventually result in the demand of the blinded populace to be led into the hands of the planner masters. They are blinded by the quiet elimination of constitutional principals that would protect us from the evils that are inherent in government. Case in point, the elimination of real money with intrinsic value for the paper of today whose only worth is as an acceptable form of tax payments.

    These thefts are not caused by individual greed, but ruthless desire for control over every aspect of an individuals life by small groups of highly influential men and their families. Setting monetary policy is the most efficient means of control. Removing intrinsic value of the money, the means. Then by controlling of the printing presses, the theft is accomplished.
    It was once written "To thine own self be true". But how do we know who we really are? Every man must confront the monster within himself, if he is ever to find peace without.

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    Re: Election 2008 Rigged?

    Quote Originally Posted by GoldPhoenix View Post
    Pretty certain you have to have a social and an address to get a vote, Spart.
    Every state is different.

    Here in Illinois, things are pretty loose. Here is what the official state requirement is:

    "When registering to vote, two forms of identification are required one must show the current address of the applicant."

    One need not be a citizen to get a driver's license in Illinois. Additionally I have personally witnessed utility bills and other pieces of mail used to prove residency.

    http://www.ajc.com/opinion/content/o.../votinged.html
    The discovery has been made when clerks of court in some Georgia counties have received correspondence from potential jurors declining to serve on juries because they were not citizens. In 2005 in one federal district court alone, the U.S. General Accounting Office found that up to 3 percent of the 30,000 people summoned for jury duty were not citizens, according to the Heritage Foundation. Considering that the majority in the Georgia House changed hands in 2004 due to just six races with a combined margin of victory of 3,000 votes, the integrity of every vote should be important to both political parties.



    So in Georgia 3% of potential jurors -- taken from voter registration rolls -- used the "I am not a citizen" excuse to get out of jury duty. How many illegal aliens registered to vote just showed up for jury duty without trying to get out of it using the truth as an excuse? Probably a larger number I'd bet as one would have to be pretty stupid to admit to illegally voting -- a federal crime -- to try to get out of jury duty.


    Would Al Franken have won in Minnesota if he had no illegal aliens voting for him?


    Would Obama have won if no illegal aliens voted for him?

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    Re: Election 2008 Rigged?

    Quote Originally Posted by Spartacus View Post
    Every state is different.

    Here in Illinois, things are pretty loose. Here is what the official state requirement is:

    "When registering to vote, two forms of identification are required one must show the current address of the applicant."

    One need not be a citizen to get a driver's license in Illinois. Additionally I have personally witnessed utility bills and other pieces of mail used to prove residency.
    Spart, do you really want me to break down what your state does to prevent non-citizens from voting? Really? I can do it if you want me to. But believe me, non-citizens are not "given" the right to vote because they can magically acquire a drivers license. There's a lot more involved than that. Since the Real ID Act requirements have come into effect, I don't think even *I* will be able to renew my license because of the requirements. Aside from the fact that I don't understand your objection to the use of utility bills as a proof of residency, I think your claim that illegals voting with fake drivers licenses is unfounded.
    "And that, my lord, is how we know the Earth to be banana-shaped." ~ Monty Python


  20. #20
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    Re: Election 2008 Rigged?

    We'll I'll admit I actually have participated in voter fraud of a sort although its really more a right wing kind of fraud than the sort Spart imagines.

    I've got a few friends who just don't vote because they either don't care or don't want to "support the system."

    One of the "don't care" fellows complained he should be able to sell his vote. It was his, this is a free market nation, he should be able to trade his political vote any way he likes including for money. This was 2004 so I decided to take him up on that notion and buy his vote for $20. He would write up his mail in ballot any way I told him too for $20. I'll admit is was partly just to get him on the register rolls so he'd get a ballot each election and possibly be motivated to fill one out for himself but it was also Mischievous fun bucking the system a bit. (Yes I know it is a crime to do this, I'm a rebel at heart.)

    He offered again this year but I didn't think I'd need his vote in Washington State as it was pretty well Obama land over here. Thus not worth the $20 to me and it was more a lark the first time than anything else.

    I'm curious if Spart finds that a corruption of our sacred ballot system or if it appeals to his free market capitalist nature.

 

 
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