Divine Intervention

[onalandline]

I posted this on another forum, so I decided to post this here also:

I was in a car accident about 7 years ago that I should not have walked away from. I was driving a Honda Civic on the expressway, fell asleep at the wheel, and did a tango with a semi-tractor trailer. My front hood was ripped off, the roof caved in, the windows all were smashed, and all four doors were jammed. I was doing around 75 miles per hour. I walked away with only minor cuts that required a few stitches. The next day, when I went where my car was hauled away, in order to retrieve my belongings, the people there could not believe that I was alive. It looked to them like whoever was driving, should be in the morgue. I even wondered how I fit into that tangled mess when I looked at the driver's seat. Even the police could not believe that I walked away from that accident.

Personally, I believe this to be divine intervention. I have no proof that this was the case, but I believe it to be.

What do you think of the concept of Divine Intervention? Have you possibly experienced it?

[Blackturtle]

thing like that happen very often. If you think it was divine intervention, so be it. I dont think about divine intervention when i get lucky though. i have heard other stories about situations where people some how get out alive, even when it seemed impossible. could it be divine intervention? how could a bugulars gun get jammed right when he aims it at you? its all up to the person in the situation decide if it was luck, chance, or divine.

[Dionysus]

It must have been God. There's no other possible explanation.

Along those lines, my best friend had a motorcycle accident he shouldn't have walked away from. He was going too fast and ran into the back of a parked industrial utility vehicle. He also had a pregnant wife back at home, and they were both still mourning the loss of their 4 month old son from 2 months earlier. So when you think about it, the only way he could have survived the accident is 1) Because God came in and intervened and 2) The God who interevened did so because of the circumstances I described (as well as those reasons only the Almighty could know).

So, when you think about it, there's no WAY he should have walked away from that accident. And yet...

...oh yeah. That's right. He didn't walk away from it. He crashed and died on impact due to his brain being extruded from the force of it, and he sat there and burned for 11 hours. Now his widow has abandoned her faith and thinks any God who would allow such things to happen is either a bastard or a ****ing joke.

But the Lord works in mysterious ways, I guess.

[Trendem]

Have you heard of the power of large numbers? With millions of accidents happening every year, it is a statistical certainty that some people will experience miraculous escapes. You were just lucky, that's all.

[ians25]

I posted this on another forum, so I decided to post this here also:

I was in a car accident about 7 years ago that I should not have walked away from. I was driving a Honda Civic on the expressway, fell asleep at the wheel, and did a tango with a semi-tractor trailer. My front hood was ripped off, the roof caved in, the windows all were smashed, and all four doors were jammed. I was doing around 75 miles per hour. I walked away with only minor cuts that required a few stitches. The next day, when I went where my car was hauled away, in order to retrieve my belongings, the people there could not believe that I was alive. It looked to them like whoever was driving, should be in the morgue. I even wondered how I fit into that tangled mess when I looked at the driver's seat. Even the police could not believe that I walked away from that accident.

Personally, I believe this to be divine intervention. I have no proof that this was the case, but I believe it to be.

What do you think of the concept of Divine Intervention? Have you possibly experienced it?

Why would god even allow you to go through such an accident if he wanted you unharmed and undamaged, why cause the accident and then "interfere" against it, wouldn't it had been easier to prevent you from falling asleep in the first place? but yes as said before, god must act in mysterious ways...(too mysterious for us to interpret maybe?, reading the bible might be a waste of time?)

[Trendem]

Why would god even allow you to go through such an accident if he wanted you unharmed and undamaged, why cause the accident and then "interfere" against it, wouldn't it had been easier to prevent you from falling asleep in the first place? but yes as said before, god must act in mysterious ways...

Presumably so that Ona can regale others with tales of his miraculous escape, magnifying God's glory and bringing people to Jesus! Though the question would then be: Why doesn't God just appear to everyone and show them his full glory, instead of adopting such roundabout ways?

[ians25]

Presumably so that Ona can regale others with tales of his miraculous escape, magnifying God's glory and bringing people to Jesus!

ah yes that's a possibility, but then why would god use third party messengers, if all he wanted is us to know he exits why not have an express one on one talk with each of us?, but yes, god acts in mysterious ways...

[Sigfried]

I was in a car accident about 7 years ago that I should not have walked away from.

Here is the real crux of your thinking. You feel that if something seems likely, then it must happen. That if you have a catastrophic accident, you should die. Kind of like if you drop and object it should fall.

But you aren't taking into account a number of facts. Firstly, many other people also survive potentially deadly accidents and many don't. Secondly, cards are designed to help you survive in situations like that. The car is supposed to get utterly annihilated while the passenger cabin remains survivable. They are designed so all the force of the collision is directed through the body and around the passengers.

So "should not have walked away from" is actually, "designed to walk away from." It's just that no matter how good the engineering crashes are unpredictable and some idiots don't wear their seatbelts. I'd wager you were smart enough to have yours on.

Personally, I believe this to be divine intervention. I have no proof that this was the case, but I believe it to be.

That's fine but you won't be convincing anyone with nothing more than your belief.

I've seen people who believe they have had sex with aliens.

What do you think of the concept of Divine Intervention? Have you possibly experienced it?

I think its silly and a bit childish and have not experienced it. I have been rather lucky on occasion however.

[HappyLady]

A week before my 18th birthday, I was driving at least 90 on a highway with my sister. We were screwing around, flirting with boys as we flew by them. It was probable that we would get into an accident. As I hit a mountain, my car flipped and fell about 20 feet into a rocky ditch. My head went through the passenger side window.

The 911 call from the guy in the convertible behind me went something like this, "There's been a bad accident on 81N. I don't expect to find anyone alive."

To the doctor's amazement, even though my head swelled to twice it's size, I never lost consciousness. The doctors had never seen a pelvis so bruised and yet not broken. Even more miraculous, my sister was relatively unscathed. She didn't even need medical attention. Even MORE miraculous, had I been wearing my seatbelt I would have been killed because the back tire broke off at the axle and came in through the windshield and smashed against the driver's side headrest, where my head would have been had I been wearing the belt.

I defied a lot of probability that day. I drive slower now.

I got a ticket a couple weeks ago for going 72 in a 50 and 4 points on my license. I drive even slower now.

Many people told me I had an angel on my shoulder the day I got in that accident. And I choose to believe them because I enjoy believing in angels. I get something out of it.

However, I don't think defying probability is cause to believe in divine intervention. You defied less probability than I did, so is it less divine? Haha.

But if it adds value to your life and helps you to make better choices in life, then what is the harm in believing you had an angel on your shoulder, too?

[Booger]

Personally, I believe this to be divine intervention.

Why do you believe it to be?

In any event, a series of questions. Why would God intervene in your accident to keep you safe, but not intervene in countless other like-kind accidents where many tens of thousands have died? Or why didn't God intervene to stop the tsunami that killed over 100,000? Or why do you believe God intervened to save your life out of the 150,000 people that died the day of your accident, including the 27,000 children who died that same day?

What do you think of the concept of Divine Intervention?

First, it's totally inconsistent with Christian philosophy. If God can intervene to prevent harm to human sinners, but only does so selectively, then God is an arbitrary and capricious deity.

Second, in my mind, the concept of "divine intervention" is simply a manifestation of the ego; in other words, we all ascribe a special self-importance to ourselves and therefore it's quite conceivable (if one believes in God) for one to assume that one's "specialness" will be protected by God.

Many people told me I had an angel on my shoulder the day I got in that accident. And I choose to believe them because I enjoy believing in angels. I get something out of it...what is the harm in believing you had an angel on your shoulder...?

What do you make of this angel when things don't work out for you? Or does this special angel that has been assigned to protect you from harm only help you when your life is on the line? What are the prerequisites for angel aid?

[onalandline]

Presumably so that Ona can regale others with tales of his miraculous escape, magnifying God's glory and bringing people to Jesus! Though the question would then be: Why doesn't God just appear to everyone and show them his full glory, instead of adopting such roundabout ways?

Trendem, this a serious thread, I was in that accident, and I personally believe it to be divine intervention. I didn't ask for smart-ass responses. You blame me in other posts for trying to force my beliefs on someone else. You are just as guilty.


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Judging by your posts, many of you are skeptical and believe it to be just good luck. Maybe it is. You can ask all kinds of questions about it, but there is no proof either way. I just believe in higher powers and divine intervention. I didn't start this thread to gather facts on the subject, but rather to field people's opinions on the subject matter, and see if anyone else feels they had similar experiences. That's all. Everyone has their own opinions, and I am glad to hear them.

[AuspiciousFist]

I personally have never had a lucky escape, although if I did I'm pretty confident that I would have a change of perspective, as anyone would, but I wouldn't think it was divine intervention.

When people talk about their miraculous experience, it actually kind of unsettles me. What they're saying is that anyone in that position would have died, but instead God decided to swoop down and keep them alive because He wanted them to live longer (as opposed to the thousands who died during that same hour), so there must be something special about them, or at least about their relationship with "God". It's like a psychological mandate for bullheadedness, and also the reason people like to tell their Divine intervention stories so much.

but there is no proof either way.

I'm not so sure about this....the laws of probability are a pretty well documented phenomenon

[onalandline]

I personally have never had a lucky escape, although if I did I'm pretty confident that I would have a change of perspective, as anyone would, but I wouldn't think it was divine intervention.

When people talk about their miraculous experience, it actually kind of unsettles me. What they're saying is that anyone in that position would have died, but instead God decided to swoop down and keep them alive because He wanted them to live longer (as opposed to the thousands who died during that same hour), so there must be something special about them, or at least about their relationship with "God". It's like a psychological mandate for bullheadedness, and also the reason people like to tell their Divine intervention stories so much.

You're wrong. It's about discussion. Divine intervention is just a belief, not a fact. No bullheadedness involved, except by those saying that divine intervention is not possible.

[AuspiciousFist]

You're wrong. It's about discussion. Divine intervention is just a belief, not a fact. No bullheadedness involved, except by those saying that divine intervention is not possible.

if one believes something they believe it to be fact, or else they wouldn't believe it.

so yes, it is a belief.
a belief that concretely validates a whole bunch of other beliefs, thus affirming whatever worldview they subscribe to and giving the receiver of the divine intervention reassurance and increased conviction, which often manifests itself in bullheadedness, or at least self-righteousness.

[HappyLady]

What do you make of this angel when things don't work out for you?

I beat it's ass.

Or does this special angel that has been assigned to protect you from harm only help you when your life is on the line?

No. It also vacuums and does my grocery shopping.

What are the prerequisites for angel aid?

To be beauteeful. And you can't be a nose-picker or it won't come to help you.

Okay, seriously. I don't necessarily believe that I had an angel on my shoulder that day that literally did something to prevent me from being killed. I just generally believe in angels.

[onalandline]

if one believes something they believe it to be fact, or else they wouldn't believe it.

so yes, it is a belief.
a belief that concretely validates a whole bunch of other beliefs, thus affirming whatever worldview they subscribe to and giving the receiver of the divine intervention reassurance and increased conviction, which often manifests itself in bullheadedness, or at least self-righteousness.

Wrong, it is something that I choose to believe in. I know that divine intervention could just be wishful thinking. I do not push it on other people. I just like to hear people's thoughts on the subject. I'm not bullheaded or self-righteous. I believe that anything is possible unless it is proven one way or the other. Just for you atheists: God may not exist since I cannot prove that he does. I just believe he does.

[AuspiciousFist]

Wrong, it is something that I choose to believe in. I know that divine intervention could just be wishful thinking. I do not push it on other people. I just like to hear people's thoughts on the subject. I'm not bullheaded or self-righteous. I believe that anything is possible unless it is proven one way or the other. Just for you atheists: God may not exist since I cannot prove that he does. I just believe he does.

so you're not choosing to believe it because you believe it's true, you're believe it for the reason that... it makes you feel better because it validates your beliefs and gives your life a larger feeling of significance and importance (through the vindication of your beliefs)?

Get mad at me for saying that if you want, but you haven't provided your own rationale for your belief, and that's what I believe (the bullheaded comment wasn't meant to be a personal attack, but an indication of the kind of mindset this sort of self validation can engender)

You haven't said why you think your escape was different than the majority of them and caused you to believe in divine intervention.

if the answer is just "it's my belief and that's all there is to it." Then I don't think you're in any position to criticize other people's beliefs. I mean, you flat out told me that I was "wrong," in two different posts. You can't throw out criticism and then pretend to be neutral.

[starcreator]

I posted this on another forum, so I decided to post this here also:

I was in a car accident about 7 years ago that I should not have walked away from. I was driving a Honda Civic on the expressway, fell asleep at the wheel, and did a tango with a semi-tractor trailer. My front hood was ripped off, the roof caved in, the windows all were smashed, and all four doors were jammed. I was doing around 75 miles per hour. I walked away with only minor cuts that required a few stitches. The next day, when I went where my car was hauled away, in order to retrieve my belongings, the people there could not believe that I was alive. It looked to them like whoever was driving, should be in the morgue. I even wondered how I fit into that tangled mess when I looked at the driver's seat. Even the police could not believe that I walked away from that accident.

Personally, I believe this to be divine intervention. I have no proof that this was the case, but I believe it to be.

What do you think of the concept of Divine Intervention? Have you possibly experienced it?

You'd think that if God had the capacity to intervene, he'd have saved the car. Or, you know, prevented the crash from happening in the first place.

I realize that everyone is leaping all over your story, onalindline, and I do sympathize with your awful experience, but the nature of a debate forum is to challenge others' convictions; placing "I believe" before a statement does not dispel evaluations of the validity of your claim. Believing that it is divine intervention necessarily implies that you believe God can intervene in the world to produce better outcomes, which beckons an implication of why God doesn't intervene in a large number of scenarios where people have had brutal, painful deaths.

[Trendem]

Trendem, this a serious thread, I was in that accident, and I personally believe it to be divine intervention. I didn't ask for smart-ass responses. You blame me in other posts for trying to force my beliefs on someone else. You are just as guilty.

You posted a thread asking us for our responses to your alleged divine intervention. I pointed out that with so many accidents happening every day, someone is bound to get away with a lucky escape. How does it constitute forcing my beliefs on you? You invited our input, for goodness sake. Contrast this with the other thread, where your input was not invited - Aspo posed the questions to atheists specifically.

[Rogue Cardinal]

I posted this on another forum, so I decided to post this here also:

I was in a car accident about 7 years ago that I should not have walked away from. I was driving a Honda Civic on the expressway, fell asleep at the wheel, and did a tango with a semi-tractor trailer. My front hood was ripped off, the roof caved in, the windows all were smashed, and all four doors were jammed. I was doing around 75 miles per hour. I walked away with only minor cuts that required a few stitches. The next day, when I went where my car was hauled away, in order to retrieve my belongings, the people there could not believe that I was alive. It looked to them like whoever was driving, should be in the morgue. I even wondered how I fit into that tangled mess when I looked at the driver's seat. Even the police could not believe that I walked away from that accident.

Personally, I believe this to be divine intervention. I have no proof that this was the case, but I believe it to be.

What do you think of the concept of Divine Intervention? Have you possibly experienced it?

I see your Divine Intervention story and raise you a Non-Divine Intervention story.

Several years ago I was a party drunk out of my gourd. During this party a buddy of mine went to the neighbors house. While there he started parting with some girls on top of the roof of their two story house. I went to go get him off the roof as I thought he would surely fall and kill himself. As I walked across the top of the roof line I slipped and fell off the 2 story house at about the highest possible point straight to the ground.. I didn't land in the bush I landed on the ground. Pretty hard. That's probably close to a 25ft fall.

I got up and walked away without a BRUISE. NOTHING. Not a broken bone. Spilt my beer. But nothing at all wrong with me. Was it Divine intervention? I am after all not a Christian. Why would god spare ME of all people? I was drinking. I had fornicated 3 times that night. I had gambled. I was not being very Christian like. Why would god save me?

Furthermore why should I think GOd saved me?

I think what saved me was the fact that I was soooooo relaxed when I fell due to the fact that I was drunk off my ass. It's the same reason why a lot of times drunk drivers live and the person they hit doesn't. They can't react fast enough to clinch their muscles. They just GOOOOO with it. Thus they walk away unharmed.

I don't belief in divine intervention. It makes no sense and goes against the idea of an intervening God which so many Christians cling to.....though in the OT you find God intervening all the time.