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  1. #1
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    Kerry and the 14th Amendment

    Section 3 of the 14th Amendment is as follows:

    "No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability."

    Now some people think Kerry has violated the 14th Amendment and shouldn't be allowed to be President, or even Senator for that matter because he protested agaisnt the war. Of course, this all depends on what can be construed as "rebellion". What does everyone here think?

    Just FYI, that website is incredibly partisan and biased, so take it with a few pounds of salt.
    "The essential act of war is destruction, not necessarily of human lives, but of the products of human labour. War is a way of shattering to pieces, or pouring into the stratosphere, or sinking in the depths of the sea, materials which might otherwise be used to make the masses too comfortable, and hence, in the long run, too intelligent." 1984, By George Orwell. Part 2: Chapter 9.

  2. #2
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    Re: Kerry and the 14th Amendment

    Quote Originally Posted by KneeLess
    Now some people think Kerry has violated the 14th Amendment and shouldn't be allowed to be President, or even Senator for that matter because he protested agaisnt the war. Of course, this all depends on what can be construed as "rebellion". What does everyone here think?
    I don't think that protesting against the war qualifies as an act of rebellion against the constitution. Besides, doesn't the first amendment give him the full right to protest against it?

    Also, I think it would be far more logical to say that Dubya violated the 14th amendment by "rebelling against" the constitution. Some examples include parts of the Patriot Act which have been declared unconstitutional and the proposed ban on same-sex marriage, which denies people equal rights.
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    I'll give you a hint. Contradictions do not exist. Whenever you think that you are facing a contradiction, check your premises. You will find that one of them is wrong.
    - Francisco d'Anconia, Atlas Shrugged

  3. #3
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    Re: Kerry and the 14th Amendment

    Im having a hard time in understanding that ammendment, wasnt this one of the amendments that was passed under Abraham Lincoln during the civil war? what became of the southern politicians after the war? I thought they were allowed to continue holding office...but that could be easily explained by the "2/3rds of each house vote" issue...but then then again, the Jim Crow laws of the south were in violation of the constitution was it not?

    About the issue with John Kerry, there are rumors around the internet of another "October suprise" in which somebody has a video of him pissing on the flag and burning it...its just a rumor right now so try not to flame me after this post (fyshhed j/k ), but if it is, I would consider that to be in violation of the 14th amendment...but then again, im kind of confused about this amendment :(
    Do or do not, there is no try. - Master Jedi Yoda
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    Actually, didn't Frank Oz do Bert as well? We're cousins! - Withnail in reference to Bert and Yoda

  4. #4
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    Re: Kerry and the 14th Amendment

    Quote Originally Posted by RTShatto
    Im having a hard time in understanding that ammendment, wasnt this one of the amendments that was passed under Abraham Lincoln during the civil war? what became of the southern politicians after the war? I thought they were allowed to continue holding office...but that could be easily explained by the "2/3rds of each house vote" issue...but then then again, the Jim Crow laws of the south were in violation of the constitution was it not?
    I have a feeling that its an amendment which was passed but never enforced. However, I'm no historian so my assumption could be wrong. However, I have never heard of it being used.

    Quote Originally Posted by RTShatto
    About the issue with John Kerry, there are rumors around the internet of another "October suprise" in which somebody has a video of him pissing on the flag and burning it...its just a rumor right now so try not to flame me after this post (fyshhed j/k ), but if it is, I would consider that to be in violation of the 14th amendment...but then again, im kind of confused about this amendment
    The whole flag-burning amendment is a controversial amendment to begin with (since it conflicts with the first amendment) so that makes things even more complicated. However, I highly doubt that Kerry would urinate on the flag to being with.
    -=]emtee10[=-
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    I'll give you a hint. Contradictions do not exist. Whenever you think that you are facing a contradiction, check your premises. You will find that one of them is wrong.
    - Francisco d'Anconia, Atlas Shrugged

  5. #5
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    Re: Kerry and the 14th Amendment

    The idea of rebellion is subjective. I don't see how Kerry's post-Vietnam testimony was even a protest, to be honest. If the things he says he did are actually what was done (and we've all heard the stories of the hell that was Vietnam), then that should be it. It's not as if any of these accounts are new; as though no other man who fought has never spoken the words. To single Kerry out for his statements is ridiculous. In turn, I don't feel it was rebellion.

    Further, to say that Kerry should be excluded from the Presidency based on his feelings about the Vietnam War is ludicrous.



    I, too, had some trouble understanding the verbiage of the Amendment. Those crazy old white men had to go and make it complicated. Maybe they just had the gift of foresight.....However, I've always been of the understanding that the term "rebellion" as used in the 14th Amendment was used mainly in reference to an armedrebellion. I may very well be wrong, though. If that is, in fact, the case, Kerry's statements certainly cannot be included.
    Judge of a man by his questions rather than by his answers.--Voltaire

  6. #6
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    Re: Kerry and the 14th Amendment

    Protesting against a war is not rebellion. Disagreeing with the government is definatly not a crime.

    Kerry never actively tried to overthrow some portion of the government or violently express his views or give aide to the enemey. Trying to label his actions as treasonous or even rebellious or insurrectionous is simply conservative bull****, and is probably supported by the same people who think agreeing with the views of France or Germany is also an act of treason because the USA is right no matter what.

  7. #7
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    Re: Kerry and the 14th Amendment

    Quote Originally Posted by Telex
    Disagreeing with the government is definatly not a crime.
    It is actualy encouraged...and thats where the 14th amendment confuses me somewhat :(
    Do or do not, there is no try. - Master Jedi Yoda
    He's Kermit on acid who happens to carry a big stick when pissed off. Big deal. - Apokalupsis
    Actually, didn't Frank Oz do Bert as well? We're cousins! - Withnail in reference to Bert and Yoda

  8. #8
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    Re: Kerry and the 14th Amendment

    Protest is an American right. To say that one who protests is unamerican, is unamerican.

    YAECH (Yet another example of conservative hypocrisy)
    Fortunately, the darkest of darkness is not as terrible as we fear.
    Unfortunately, the lightest of light, all things good, are not so wonderful as we hope for them to be.
    What, then, is left, but various shades of grey neutrality? Where are the heroes and villains? All I see are people.

  9. #9
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    Re: Kerry and the 14th Amendment

    It is not conservative hypocrisy if it is in the constitution Fyshhed.
    Do or do not, there is no try. - Master Jedi Yoda
    He's Kermit on acid who happens to carry a big stick when pissed off. Big deal. - Apokalupsis
    Actually, didn't Frank Oz do Bert as well? We're cousins! - Withnail in reference to Bert and Yoda

  10. #10
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    Re: Kerry and the 14th Amendment

    Quote Originally Posted by mrs_innocent
    The idea of rebellion is subjective. I don't see how Kerry's post-Vietnam testimony was even a protest, to be honest. If the things he says he did are actually what was done (and we've all heard the stories of the hell that was Vietnam), then that should be it. It's not as if any of these accounts are new; as though no other man who fought has never spoken the words.
    What other men spoke out in a Senate hearing about it?
    And it's not just what he said about himself, it's what he said about others. Equating his fellow soldiers with the army of Ghengis Khan is just a bit over the top. And Kerry also has since admitted that some of what he said was wrong. He waltzes into Vietnam, spends 4 months there and returns as an expert witness -- the whole while spending his time on a swiftboat. Kerry the expert. Kerry the big, bad Vietnam Vet who near enough crucified his fellow soldiers and every soldier who fought in that war.

    Kerry's words (at the Senate hearing) being blasted over loud speakers in POW camps for the benefit of breaking down our soldiers held as prisoners. See? See what the big, bad Kerry is saying about this war? Now TALK prisoners -- or more torture. TALK against your government just like our hero Kerry.

    And the picture of Kerry over in North Vietnam, meeting with government officials and all of them admiring his big, fat face on the wall. That's right. The North Vietnamese have a picture of Kerry on their wall. Their hero.

  11. #11
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    Re: Kerry and the 14th Amendment

    Quote Originally Posted by Telex
    Protesting against a war is not rebellion. Disagreeing with the government is definatly not a crime.
    Well, under the definition of rebellion, at least in my dictionary, says that rebellion is, "An act or a show of defiance toward an authority or established convention." Any protest could be construed as such. Now, I don't agree with that section of the amendment to begin with.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fyshhed
    Protest is an American right. To say that one who protests is unamerican, is unamerican.
    As far as the constitution is concerned, you do have that right, but after using that right, you can't run for office.

    Just fyi: I don't support that section of the amendment and I don't think Kerry falls under it, I just thought it was interesting. I was reading the amendments to the constitution and read that section and thought, "that's wrong."
    "The essential act of war is destruction, not necessarily of human lives, but of the products of human labour. War is a way of shattering to pieces, or pouring into the stratosphere, or sinking in the depths of the sea, materials which might otherwise be used to make the masses too comfortable, and hence, in the long run, too intelligent." 1984, By George Orwell. Part 2: Chapter 9.

  12. #12
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    Re: Kerry and the 14th Amendment

    Quote Originally Posted by RTShatto
    It is not conservative hypocrisy if it is in the constitution Fyshhed.
    Protest =/= rebellion, and that's a pretty easy comparison.
    Fortunately, the darkest of darkness is not as terrible as we fear.
    Unfortunately, the lightest of light, all things good, are not so wonderful as we hope for them to be.
    What, then, is left, but various shades of grey neutrality? Where are the heroes and villains? All I see are people.

  13. #13
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    Re: Kerry and the 14th Amendment

    What a load of malarkey. IF Kerry was aiding the enemy so openly, he would have been prosectued under the UCMJ or under civilian law when he became as such.

    He protested the war, get over it. And to those idiots that wrote that article:

    Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

    What a joke. :rolleyes:
    Cranky old guy.

    =>Andacanavar<=

    "Comedy & Tragedy, wrapped into one."



  14. #14
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    Re: Kerry and the 14th Amendment

    Quote Originally Posted by southie
    What other men spoke out in a Senate hearing about it?
    And it's not just what he said about himself, it's what he said about others. Equating his fellow soldiers with the army of Ghengis Khan is just a bit over the top. And Kerry also has since admitted that some of what he said was wrong. He waltzes into Vietnam, spends 4 months there and returns as an expert witness -- the whole while spending his time on a swiftboat. Kerry the expert. Kerry the big, bad Vietnam Vet who near enough crucified his fellow soldiers and every soldier who fought in that war.

    Kerry's words (at the Senate hearing) being blasted over loud speakers in POW camps for the benefit of breaking down our soldiers held as prisoners. See? See what the big, bad Kerry is saying about this war? Now TALK prisoners -- or more torture. TALK against your government just like our hero Kerry.

    And the picture of Kerry over in North Vietnam, meeting with government officials and all of them admiring his big, fat face on the wall. That's right. The North Vietnamese have a picture of Kerry on their wall. Their hero.
    One thing all of you seemed to have missed out on is that the Constitution doesn't work on hearsay. That's all you have: meaningless, unsubstantiated and utterly baseless hearsay.

    You show me where Kerry was CONVICTED IN A COURT OF LAW BY A JURY OF HIS PEERS of sedition / organizing a rebellion / or treason. Until then, you have zero. Nada. Nothing. Thank you for playing, now go the CENSORED home.

  15. #15
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    Re: Kerry and the 14th Amendment

    I think Z has the bottom line. People protest against the government, but that does not equal treasonous behavior. Even G.I. Jane's actions cannot be considered treason since she was never brought before a court and convicted. Kerry may be a buffoon. He may have sold his boys in Vietnam out for a chance to get some politcal notoriety. He did not take part in a rebellion. He did not commit treason. He is as qualified for public office as any other left-wing, idealistic, myopic, caught in a time warp, wannbe hippy, socialist.

  16. #16
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    Re: Kerry and the 14th Amendment

    Quote Originally Posted by Ibelsd
    He is as qualified for public office as any other left-wing, idealistic, myopic, caught in a time warp, wannbe hippy, socialist.
    *mutters about right-wing, neo-con, fundy, conservative nutjobs for president*
    Fortunately, the darkest of darkness is not as terrible as we fear.
    Unfortunately, the lightest of light, all things good, are not so wonderful as we hope for them to be.
    What, then, is left, but various shades of grey neutrality? Where are the heroes and villains? All I see are people.

  17. #17
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    Re: Kerry and the 14th Amendment

    Quote Originally Posted by Zhavric
    One thing all of you seemed to have missed out on is that the Constitution doesn't work on hearsay. That's all you have: meaningless, unsubstantiated and utterly baseless hearsay.

    You show me where Kerry was CONVICTED IN A COURT OF LAW BY A JURY OF HIS PEERS of sedition / organizing a rebellion / or treason. Until then, you have zero. Nada. Nothing. Thank you for playing, now go the CENSORED home.
    What goes around, comes around.
    OJ Simpson was never convicted either
    Kerry is getting his own now from the Swiftboat Vets For the Truth.
    I also heard there's another condemning ad/film coming out that explicity explains exactly how John Kerry's Senate hearing testimony negativiely affected their POW experience.

  18. #18
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    Re: Kerry and the 14th Amendment

    Quote Originally Posted by KneeLess
    Section 3 of the 14th Amendment is as follows:

    "No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability."

    Now some people think Kerry has violated the 14th Amendment and shouldn't be allowed to be President, or even Senator for that matter because he protested agaisnt the war. Of course, this all depends on what can be construed as "rebellion". What does everyone here think?

    Just FYI, that website is incredibly partisan and biased, so take it with a few pounds of salt.
    I think what you have posted is brilliant. He is exactly what he appears to be. A seditionist that is unfit for command. A Joke. An Embarrassment to the democratic party.
    Mike

  19. #19
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    Re: Kerry and the 14th Amendment

    Quote Originally Posted by southie
    What goes around, comes around.
    OJ Simpson was never convicted either
    Kerry is getting his own now from the Swiftboat Vets For the Truth.
    I also heard there's another condemning ad/film coming out that explicity explains exactly how John Kerry's Senate hearing testimony negativiely affected their POW experience.
    Thank you for admitting that I'm right.

  20. #20
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    Re: Kerry and the 14th Amendment

    Quote Originally Posted by Zhavric
    Thank you for admitting that I'm right.
    Your welcome.

    PS. Your signature overpowers anything that you have to say.

 

 
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