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Thread: Death

  1. #1
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    Death

    Despite being big into Gothic and Romantic culture, I have to admit, I'm very much bothered by death. It scares the Hell out of me that, one day, my loved ones will cry for me, and I won't be able to comfort them; it scares the Hell out of me that I won't be able to see the events of the world unfold, nor my children and grandchildren grow old/up; and it scares the Hell out of me that I will one day be forgotten, even by the numerous parasites who feed off my corpse. What bothers me more is that it could happen anytime. I have so much that I want to experience in the world, but it all could be taken away from me tomorrow.

    This question is primarily for atheists and/or people who don't believe in any type of afterlife, though I'm willing to listen to anyone:

    How exactly do you cope with your eventual death? How do you deal with the fact that, one day, your loved ones will mourn for you, you won't be able to see your children and grandchildren anymore, and you will eventually be forgotten? Does it bother you, and if so, how do you comfort yourself?

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    Re: Death

    Have you considered having yourself frozen after death? I know that seems bizarre, but a lot of people who do that do so for reasons like you mentioned.

    Contrariwise, if it was so, it might be; and if it were so, it would be; but as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic.

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    Re: Death

    Quote Originally Posted by AliceLiddell View Post
    Have you considered having yourself frozen after death? I know that seems bizarre, but a lot of people who do that do so for reasons like you mentioned.
    Actually, yes. Isn't it expensive, though?

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    Re: Death

    Quote Originally Posted by czahar View Post
    Does it bother you, and if so, how do you comfort yourself?
    Doesn't bother me at all. It used to, but hell...when it's my time to go it's my time to go.

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    Re: Death

    Quote Originally Posted by czahar View Post
    Actually, yes. Isn't it expensive, though?
    Yes, but there are payment plans.

    The question is, is "cheating death" worth the price?

    Contrariwise, if it was so, it might be; and if it were so, it would be; but as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic.

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    Re: Death

    I just don't find the world interesting enough to care. If I die, I don't feel like I'll be missing anything. New technology? New people? Meh, it's all the same.

    As for the frozen corpse thing, I don't understand why people care about their bodies after they die. Maybe future generations will look back on us as fools for wasting an abundant food resource. I've always said we should develop an organization for the inspection of human corpses. If the corpses meet health regulations, they could be butchered and distributed as free food to the poor. I'd go cannibal if I was hungry. Animals do it. What's the big deal?
    DITTA ARTIGIANA BUDRIO / F.MENAGLIO

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    Re: Death

    Quote Originally Posted by Whistlepig View Post
    As for the frozen corpse thing, I don't understand why people care about their bodies after they die.
    It's not to just keep your body from rotting. It's to give you the hope of being brought back to life. Google "Cryonics" for more information.

    Contrariwise, if it was so, it might be; and if it were so, it would be; but as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic.

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    Re: Death

    I already know about Cryonics thnx, but that concept raises another question:

    Are you not afraid of the future? What if by the time you are resurrected, humanity is unrecognizable?


    The language you speak might be dated.

    You will be ignorant of current events, technological advances, etc.

    You will be socially inept. It might like an Elizabethan Englishman living in modern day NYC.

    You will likely be unhealthier than most people in regards to vaccines, natural immunities, etc.

    The list goes on forever. Personally, I think humanity is headed for the worst, and I'll be glad to be gone before 2100.
    DITTA ARTIGIANA BUDRIO / F.MENAGLIO

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    Re: Death

    Quote Originally Posted by Whistlepig View Post
    I already know about Cryonics thnx, but that concept raises another question:

    Are you not afraid of the future? What if by the time you are resurrected, humanity is unrecognizable?

    The language you speak might be dated.

    You will be ignorant of current events, technological advances, etc.

    You will be socially inept. It might like an Elizabethan Englishman living in modern day NYC.

    You will likely be unhealthier than most people in regards to vaccines, natural immunities, etc.

    The list goes on forever. Personally, I think humanity is headed for the worst, and I'll be glad to be gone before 2100.
    Yeah, but then you could always just kill yourself (presumably).

    And anyway, it worked out for the Encino Man.

    Contrariwise, if it was so, it might be; and if it were so, it would be; but as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic.

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  11. #10
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    Re: Death

    One's own non-existence is a difficult thing to ponder. I'd argue that it's some we are wholly incapable of pondering, since we have no meaningful frame of reference. It's like a blind man pondering what color must be, but even that isn't a very good analogy since he would at least still be capable of thinking.

    When I begin to get overwhelmed with the idea of death, I tend to think of it like this:

    When I die, I reckon I'll go back to doing what I was doing before I was born.

    And what was that?

    Exactly.

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    Re: Death

    Quote Originally Posted by Dionysus View Post
    One's own non-existence is a difficult thing to ponder. I'd argue that it's some we are wholly incapable of pondering, since we have no meaningful frame of reference. It's like a blind man pondering what color must be, but even that isn't a very good analogy since he would at least still be capable of thinking.

    When I begin to get overwhelmed with the idea of death, I tend to think of it like this:

    When I die, I reckon I'll go back to doing what I was doing before I was born.

    And what was that?

    Exactly.
    I agree that the "experience" (for lack of a better word) of nonexistence = the "experience" of preexistence, but that top paragraph is a common jumble of terms that really mean nothing. Could you clarify what you mean by "pondering your existence"? All that says to me is "thinking about your existence", which is easy. You think about your existence, or you think about not existing which is comparable to dreamless sleep in that your perception is inactive when you have dreamless sleep, and arguably nonexistent.

    You're having trouble pondering something because there is nothing to ponder.
    Last edited by Whistlepig; May 9th, 2009 at 06:08 PM.
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    Re: Death

    Quote Originally Posted by czahar View Post
    This question is primarily for atheists and/or people who don't believe in any type of afterlife, though I'm willing to listen to anyone:

    How exactly do you cope with your eventual death? How do you deal with the fact that, one day, your loved ones will mourn for you, you won't be able to see your children and grandchildren anymore, and you will eventually be forgotten? Does it bother you, and if so, how do you comfort yourself?
    I am personally not bothered by death. I am over the vanity of existence. Death is a natural part of life and it will happen. Someday......but why get strung out about it? What purpose will it serve? Why not just be content with the life you currently have and get on with it?

    People in life will die....and you will miss them. Someday it's going to be your turn. And hopefully people will miss you too. But life goes on.

    In Heaven there is no beer. That's why we drink it here.

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    Re: Death

    Quote Originally Posted by Whistlepig View Post
    I agree that the "experience" (for lack of a better word) of nonexistence = the "experience" of preexistence, but that top paragraph is a common jumble of terms that really mean nothing. Could you clarify what you mean by "pondering your existence"? All that says to me is "thinking about your existence", which is easy.
    Well let's not be hasty. Simply because you don't yet understand the way someone else expresses something doesn't mean that it's "a common jumble of terms that really mean nothing". No need to start off with insults, unless you're looking to pick a fight or something.

    The very reason death is so terrifying to people is precisely because we really have no idea what it's like. It is, in every sense of the word, unknowable. What's more, we often can't get past the idea that "what it's like" is a moot term with respect to us when it comes to death. In some surreal sense, we tend to think that somehow we'll miss life and those we love in it, but at the same time we feel that nagging sense of "no we won't", which causes us to think "Well, if we're not doing that, then what?". Sure, we can say that we understand what doing nothing is, but we actually struggle with what nothingness means in relation to ourselves. It's like trying to understand what it might be like to be a stone or something. It's just something that's impossible (or at least very difficult) to ponder in a way that we find meaningful or satisfying. Yes, we can compare it to something like a state of unconsciousness, which I agree is analogous to a degree, but at the same time, death is that state of unconsciousness from which we don't wake, so greeting death isn't quite the same as greeting one's pillow. It is something against which we struggle tirelessly, and for good reason.

  15. #14
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    Re: Death

    Death itself doesn't bother me at all. I know my loved ones will mourn but will get over it eventually. Most people do get over it. I saw many families who had gone through losing a loved one, and yeah, life goes on for them.

    What scares me more is not to know how I will die. I always picture myself being brutally attacked by a group of 6 black men in my own house. Being raped and tortured for hours. That will be the worst death I can think of.

    I will not mind dying instantly in a car crash though, that will be fine.
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    Re: Death

    I understand your feelings, I went through it too.
    Its SUCH an inevitability though.
    Eventually, slowly, you start to face it. The more you face it, the more used to it you get. Ya gotta go slow because it can spawn some heavy anxiety and depression.
    The plus side though, is knowing time is limited and you only have one shot, you treat life differently, and the little (and big) stuff that used to upset you become less important. You also become motivated to do stuff before your time is up.
    As you get older you're gonna face the eventuality of it more and more anyway whether you like it or not.
    It just becomes part of life. And EVERYONE will be gone. So its not like you are unfairly singled out for death when everyone else gets to live eternally.

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    Re: Death

    Quote Originally Posted by czahar View Post
    How exactly do you cope with your eventual death? How do you deal with the fact that, one day, your loved ones will mourn for you, you won't be able to see your children and grandchildren anymore, and you will eventually be forgotten? Does it bother you, and if so, how do you comfort yourself?
    The only thing that scares me about death is, how I will actually die. I don't fear it in the sense of I think about it as I cross the road or whatever. I just don't want to be in pain when I die.

    The whole me being forgotten thing doesn't bother me because while I'm here nobody can forget me. While I'm gone, I can't see or hear people not talking about me, looking at pictures and thus forgetting me.

    I hope I live a long and eventful life, if I don't... Well I won't be around to be thinking "damn".
    .::The Swindall::.

    "...In the beginning, man created god"

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    Re: Death

    Quote Originally Posted by czahar View Post
    Despite being big into Gothic and Romantic culture, I have to admit, I'm very much bothered by death. It scares the Hell out of me that, one day, my loved ones will cry for me, and I won't be able to comfort them; it scares the Hell out of me that I won't be able to see the events of the world unfold, nor my children and grandchildren grow old/up; and it scares the Hell out of me that I will one day be forgotten, even by the numerous parasites who feed off my corpse. What bothers me more is that it could happen anytime. I have so much that I want to experience in the world, but it all could be taken away from me tomorrow.

    This question is primarily for atheists and/or people who don't believe in any type of afterlife, though I'm willing to listen to anyone:

    How exactly do you cope with your eventual death? How do you deal with the fact that, one day, your loved ones will mourn for you, you won't be able to see your children and grandchildren anymore, and you will eventually be forgotten? Does it bother you, and if so, how do you comfort yourself?
    If Hell is scared out of you, then you have nothing to fear because Hell is gone, right?

    You can be saved from death now. You can have eternal life now. You can lose your fear of death now.

    I know I deserve to die and do not deserve to live. God Himself took my place in death, suffered the punishment I deserve, so I don't have to pay in death and I am comforted knowing He is risen from the dead and now lives in me by His Spirt He gave to comfort me, Jesus Christ Himself living in me. I admitted to God that I am the one who deserves to die, believed He died in my place and rose from the grave bodily, and I called on God verbally in the name of Jesus who died for me to save me, and He in eternal life is my justification. My sins are forgiven and I am saved from Hell, He took my death, paid for my sins with His own blood so I don't have to be afraid of death. Pain is unpleasant and there is plenty enough of it for me, but death is not scary. I know my sins are forgiven and I'm going to heaven and I know I am not forgotten. I know God loves me so much that He gave His only Son, God in Human form, as the payment for my sins so I am forgiven because I have received Him as He is, the Living God,, the Creator who became the Saviour, Jesus Christ.

    None of this will be any help to you if you won't admit that you deserve to die and burn in Hell.

    I see no logical way for an atheist or agnostic to comfort themselves. You are right, death is scary if you don't really know what will become of you. A lot of people manage to make themselves believe their is nothing to fear in death. Fear God, then you need fear nothing else including death. You can trust God to save you from death, to give you eternal life now and forever.[COLOR="Silver"]

    ---------- Post added at 03:16 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:11 PM ----------

    ---------- Post added at 03:31 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:16 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Dionysus View Post
    One's own non-existence is a difficult thing to ponder. I'd argue that it's some we are wholly incapable of pondering, since we have no meaningful frame of reference. It's like a blind man pondering what color must be, but even that isn't a very good analogy since he would at least still be capable of thinking.

    When I begin to get overwhelmed with the idea of death, I tend to think of it like this:

    When I die, I reckon I'll go back to doing what I was doing before I was born.

    And what was that?

    Exactly.
    Why would you hope to be non-existent? Or do you believe you have always and will always exist in non-existence? How can anything or anybody exist when they do not exist? How can you not exist when you exist? You exist now, don't you? So you hope death is the end of your existence? So death is good because it ends pain?

    ---------- Post added at 03:43 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:31 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Dionysus View Post
    Well let's not be hasty. Simply because you don't yet understand the way someone else expresses something doesn't mean that it's "a common jumble of terms that really mean nothing". No need to start off with insults, unless you're looking to pick a fight or something.

    The very reason death is so terrifying to people is precisely because we really have no idea what it's like. It is, in every sense of the word, unknowable. What's more, we often can't get past the idea that "what it's like" is a moot term with respect to us when it comes to death. In some surreal sense, we tend to think that somehow we'll miss life and those we love in it, but at the same time we feel that nagging sense of "no we won't", which causes us to think "Well, if we're not doing that, then what?". Sure, we can say that we understand what doing nothing is, but we actually struggle with what nothingness means in relation to ourselves. It's like trying to understand what it might be like to be a stone or something. It's just something that's impossible (or at least very difficult) to ponder in a way that we find meaningful or satisfying. Yes, we can compare it to something like a state of unconsciousness, which I agree is analogous to a degree, but at the same time, death is that state of unconsciousness from which we don't wake, so greeting death isn't quite the same as greeting one's pillow. It is something against which we struggle tirelessly, and for good reason.
    The above reference to the experience of non-existence being a jumble or words with mean nothing is an accurate portrayal of the idea of experiencing non-existence. If you don't exist, how can you experience non-existing? You really cannot even imagine not existing because you have to be there to imagine it. Showing the logical contradiciton which negates all meaning of what is attempting to be expressed is not an insult and should not be taken as an insult but rather as a challenge for the speaker to clarify their thoughts and expressions.

    If death is a state of unconsciousness from which we dont awaken, why should we struggle against it? What is the good reason to struggle against death? What's the point of struggling against death when you know you are going to lose?

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    Re: Death

    Quote Originally Posted by GodIsGood View Post
    Why would you hope to be non-existent? Or do you believe you have always and will always exist in non-existence? How can anything or anybody exist when they do not exist? How can you not exist when you exist? You exist now, don't you? So you hope death is the end of your existence? So death is good because it ends pain?

    ---------------------

    The above reference to the experience of non-existence being a jumble or words with mean nothing is an accurate portrayal of the idea of experiencing non-existence. If you don't exist, how can you experience non-existing? You really cannot even imagine not existing because you have to be there to imagine it. Showing the logical contradiciton which negates all meaning of what is attempting to be expressed is not an insult and should not be taken as an insult but rather as a challenge for the speaker to clarify their thoughts and expressions.

    If death is a state of unconsciousness from which we dont awaken, why should we struggle against it? What is the good reason to struggle against death? What's the point of struggling against death when you know you are going to lose?


    Ok, you're quoting me from a post I made 6 years ago, but I'll give describing what I meant a shot anyway.

    What I was so poorly saying all those years ago was that I think people are scared of death because we don't know what death is like. But I used the word "death" when I think I should have used the world "dying".

    For me, death itself is non-existence. When I die, I "am" no longer, so I will no more experience being dead than I experienced not yet existing in 1955. That's why I said that it's hard for people to ponder their own non-existence (goodness knows why I used such stupid wording). But I do think that sometimes people can have a very hard time thinking about not being a member of the "alive" club anymore; so much so that it can actually be scary to think about.

    So, yes, I agree that non-existence means that you can't experience anything. Any confusion about the posts are my fault for using such goofy, pretentious language.

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    Re: Death

    Quote Originally Posted by Dionysus View Post


    Ok, you're quoting me from a post I made 6 years ago, but I'll give describing what I meant a shot anyway.

    What I was so poorly saying all those years ago was that I think people are scared of death because we don't know what death is like. But I used the word "death" when I think I should have used the world "dying".

    For me, death itself is non-existence. When I die, I "am" no longer, so I will no more experience being dead than I experienced not yet existing in 1955. That's why I said that it's hard for people to ponder their own non-existence (goodness knows why I used such stupid wording). But I do think that sometimes people can have a very hard time thinking about not being a member of the "alive" club anymore; so much so that it can actually be scary to think about.



    So, yes, I agree that non-existence means that you can't experience anything. Any confusion about the posts are my fault for using such goofy, pretentious language.

    In reply, not yet knowing how to properly frame posts and quotes as I am new to the site,

    I liked your post because I appreciate your attempt to clarify yourself, and you flattered me by implying I was quoting something you said six years ago. I am new here and I am simply trying to speak in truth about philosophical concepts. There really is nothing new in philosophy other than the fact that every moment in life, we are given time which we do not deserve. If I said something that appeared to be quoting something you said six years ago, it is simply a coincidence. However, I do take it as in indication that I am on the path of truth. That is why I am a bit flattered and I appreciate your continuing attempts to clarify the expression of your beliefs.

    I still don't see why anybody who believes they cease to exist should be afraid of dying. Dying is a process in time we are stuck in and there is no way out of it. If we go out of existence in death, what is to be afraid of? Wouldn't the only thing to fear be the possibility that believing in personal non-eixtence may indeed be self-decieving and in reality death does not get us off the hook for the things we have done as we spent our time in life? Sure it can be scary to think about. That's why a lot of people make mental blocks so they can stop thinking about it, or they believe they are divine in nature so they really should not be afraid of death.

    Ok....here's a bit of a trick question for you: How can you know what non-existence is when you have never been in it to experience it? It seems to me that the only thing a person can really know is existence. I see many these days trying to say life, death, time, all are illusions. There is a "zeroism" belief in ultimate non-existence which supposedly frees a person in total enlightenment by knowing totally zero in un-existence or non-existence.

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    Re: Death

    Quote Originally Posted by GodIsGood View Post
    I liked your post because I appreciate your attempt to clarify yourself, and you flattered me by implying I was quoting something you said six years ago.
    Well, just to be clear I'm not implying that I said it six years ago. I did in fact say it six years ago (5 years and 10 months ago, to be more precise). If you look above my name in the original posts you quoted, you can see the post dates and times: May 9th, 2009, 04:57 PM, and May 9th, 2009, 10:41 PM, respectively.

    Quote Originally Posted by GodIsGood View Post
    Ok....here's a bit of a trick question for you: How can you know what non-existence is when you have never been in it to experience it?
    Well, I believe that was pretty much the entire point of my last post. I AGREE that we can't know what it is. That's why I said "For me, death itself is non-existence. When I die, I "am" no longer, so I will no more experience being dead than I experienced not yet existing in 1955."

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