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Poll: which is better more regulation or less?

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  1. #1
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    Government deregulation increases crime

    With health care reform on a big topic, government regulation follows hand in hand. So here we can attempt to come to a decision once and for all which is better: more regulation, or less.

    I understand there is a disagreement between regulation and deregulation. My wonder is whether you want less regulation on what corporations can do or what consumers can do?

    Which ever side your on, I would like to know why and what real life examples you have that support your opinion.

    Here is a couple of examples of the benefits of government regulation on bad behaviors...

    1) Virus software writers are very rarely found in the united states, while the rest of world is rather rampent with them... Why is this? We certainly are of no shortage of programmers here, we have silicon valley in CA to thank for that. So whats the reason? The united States is one of the few places that actively punishes virus writers, and laws are in place to make sure virus writers are punished for their deeds. Its not illegal to write viruses else where, thats why their is so much more writers in other countries. It is much easier to win a court case when there are laws making sure the wrong are prosecuted.

    2) In the UK drunk driving is much lower than the US. The UK drinks just as much as we do (if not more, after all they are right next to Germany and Ireland), so that cant be it. Its probably due to the fact that being caught driving drunk in the UK will haunt you for the rest of your life. A) you will serve time in jail. B) Fines that are comparable to a luxury car purchase. C) you will never drive again, EVER. Much worse than the slap on the wrist you receive over here. Over here you are practically handed your license on the way out of court. The only time a drunk driver gets in real trouble is when they kill someone in the process. I prefer the UK's method, preventative measures are better than a reactionary one.

    Our Illegal imigration issue is due to the same exact problem, a lack of punishment for those who are caught. They get deported, then just try again the next day. No big deal, just a little game they play.

    Level of punishment and having laws there at all run on the same line. If you have a law in place but with a small punishment, that law is more likely to be ignored.
    Last edited by surreal5335; August 31st, 2009 at 05:23 AM. Reason: added note

  2. #2
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    Re: Government deregulation increases crime

    I'm not sure your OP really matches your poll... I didn't see a strong connection.

    I think you should have as little regulation as possible while avoiding deceptive practices. The focus on corporate regulation should be to make them honest. The focus on consumer regulation should be to... keep them honest as well.

    Open and clear information leads to an efficient market.

    As to enforcement... I think there is a balance. Sometimes crime is better than the alternative as odd as that may seem. For some crimes heavy enforcement costs the society more than the crime itself. In those cases you focus on how to help the victim more than how you stop the criminal.

    Punishment should be roughly proportional to the damage the crime does.

  3. #3
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    Re: Government deregulation increases crime

    very interesting point, never thought about the angle of cost to society enforcing vs cost of crime done. I am trying to think of an example where enforcing a crime is more expensive than the crime itself. Do you have an example of this? I am sure there is one, just cant think of any currently.

  4. #4
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    Re: Government deregulation increases crime

    Quote Originally Posted by surreal5335 View Post
    Here is a couple of examples of the benefits of government regulation on bad behaviors...

    2) In the UK drunk driving is much lower than the US. The UK drinks just as much as we do (if not more, after all they are right next to Germany and Ireland), so that cant be it. Its probably due to the fact that being caught driving drunk in the UK will haunt you for the rest of your life. A) you will serve time in jail. B) Fines that are comparable to a luxury car purchase. C) you will never drive again, EVER.
    Sorry.. that's simply not true. http://www.drinkdrivinglaw.co.uk/dri...unishments.htm
    This provides the actual penalties involved for drunk driving in the UK, and they are not anywhere near where you said they were. And if you can find a luxury car priced for 5000 I want you to point me in the right direction so I can buy it before I hop back across the pond.

    Quote Originally Posted by surreal5335
    Over here you are practically handed your license on the way out of court. The only time a drunk driver gets in real trouble is when they kill someone in the process.
    Sorry. Also not true. The laws in the US are comparable to, though a bit lighter than the UK in some places like Louisiana, where there is a pretty high rate of drunk driving per capita.
    http://www.dmv.org/la-louisiana/automotive-law/dui.php

    However, Arizona has even tougher penalties that impose even higher fines than the ones imposed in the UK (if you include the prison costs), depending on how much you've had to drink and whether it's your first offense or not.
    http://www.duiarizona.com/Law/Penalties/penalties.htm

    There have been no studies I could find to determine whether the laws passed in 2007 have had any notable effect on drunk driving fatalities in Arizona.

    Imposing penalties on people to the degree that they are enacted in Arizona is pretty ridiculous, especially when the police have the power to stop you even without suspicion at things like roadside checkpoints, etc. Sorry, but probable cause is still a Constitutional requirement before law enforcement officials can molest you, last time I checked.

  5. #5
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    Re: Government deregulation increases crime

    I am confused....

    The title, OP, and poll all appear different.

    What are we debating?

  6. #6
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    Re: Government deregulation increases crime

    Quote Originally Posted by surreal5335 View Post
    very interesting point, never thought about the angle of cost to society enforcing vs cost of crime done. I am trying to think of an example where enforcing a crime is more expensive than the crime itself. Do you have an example of this? I am sure there is one, just cant think of any currently.
    Look up the stats on non-violent drug offenders. They make up a sizeable portaion of prison inmates; what was the cost of their so called crime?
    For that is what philosophy has promised me: she will make me god's equal. -Seneca

  7. #7
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    Re: Government deregulation increases crime

    Quote Originally Posted by invictus33 View Post
    what was the cost of their so called crime?
    According to a study done in 1996, the "societal" cost of a non-violent drug crime (sale or possession)
    was only $5.00. !!

    http://www.manhattan-institute.org/html/cr_8.htm

    I realize that was 13 years ago, and the "societal" cost may have increased somewhat.

    However, that figure probably still wouldn't be much when compared to the cost of imprisoning non-violent drug offenders in the United States.

    According to the American Corrections Association, in 2005, the average daily cost of imprisoning a state inmate in the US was $67.55.
    State prisons held 253,300 inmates for drug offenses in 2005 (the most recent year with all available data).
    That means in 2005 U.S. states spent approximately $17,110,415 per day to imprison drug offenders, or $6,245,301,475 for the year.

    http://www.drugwarfacts.org/cms/node/63

    From the above, it could be concluded that the "societal cost" of a non-violent drug crime is
    MUCH lower than the cost of actually enforcing drug laws via imprisonment.

    By clicking on the table below, which compares societal costs of selected crimes, "drug sale" has the least "societal cost" than any of the other crimes listed, so why are we spending so much money enforcing drug laws?....

    Your guess is as good as mine...
    .
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by Scarlett44; September 16th, 2009 at 01:45 PM.
    "As long as I have a voice, I will speak for those who have none".

  8. #8
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    Re: Government deregulation increases crime

    Thanks for posting the numbers, I couldn't get to them at work. As a side note to the thread, this is why the "war on drugs" is an abysmal failure at every level.
    For that is what philosophy has promised me: she will make me god's equal. -Seneca

 

 

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