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  1. #1
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    Abortions for ANY reasons?

    Just picked this one up off one of my many sources. Sorry no link is available from the subscription site
    By Kathryn Welzen
    United Press Association
    Sept. 12
    AMSTERDAM --(UPA) Doctors at the National Medical Academy here have announced they have found a gene which proves homosexuality in some humans is genetic. Their findings will be published in the Journal of the American Medical Association next month and also published on the internet before the week is out. Gay rights groups worldwide are heralding this news, and strangely enough might find themselves pitted against pro-choice groups in the United States over the issue of a woman's right to abort a fetus because that fetus might be genetically inclined to grow to be a homosexual adult.

    "We want to work with groups like Planned Parenthood and the National Organization of Women to determine how we can best prevent fetuses being terminated just because they might grow up to be gay," said Wendy Metzger, spokesperson for the National Gay Lesbian Union.

    "We are still reviewing this issue and how we can best approach it without infringing upon the rights of women to any birth control measure they and their doctors feel is appropriate," said Marcia Tinsdale of Planned Parenthood.



    So should a woman be able to abort a fetus because that fetus might be inclined to grow to become a homosexual adult?

    Should a woman be legally allowed to kill the developing human in her uterus at any time for any reason?




    FYI -- this story is from the Spartan Times, Vol. 1, Issue 1
    "I've noticed that everyone who is for abortion has already been born" -- Ronald Reagan

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  2. #2
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    Re: Abortions fro ANY reasons?

    This OP looks familiar.

    Told you I've been here a while.

    I don't know that this variable adds any dimension to the already complex issue of abortion. Even if it were true (and it isn't true, folks), it wouldn't change the central point of contention i.e. the issue of choice.

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    Re: Abortions for ANY reasons?

    I am firmly against abortion for any reason.

    However, if abortion is going to remain legal....aborting because your son might be gay is just as good a reason as any other.

  4. #4
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    Re: Abortions for ANY reasons?

    Quote Originally Posted by WhoamI View Post
    I am firmly against abortion for any reason.

    However, if abortion is going to remain legal....aborting because your son might be gay is just as good a reason as any other.
    Pathetic. I imagine Christians couldnt abort their gay son, they'd just brainwash them from the moment they were born and try and convert the kid to heterosexuality.

    No wonder the suicide rate among homosexuals is so high.

    My answers:

    So should a woman be able to abort a fetus because that fetus might be inclined to grow to become a homosexual adult?
    I am fine with abortion for whatever reason. Thats my opinion, and if someone wants to abort because their kid might be gay, I dont have to like it, but as far as I am concerned, it isn't my choice to make.

    Should a woman be legally allowed to kill the developing human in her uterus at any time for any reason?
    Yes. I might sound barbaric to some, but I think lifers who want to ban abortion and wouldn't care about women dying the streets due to illegal abortions are pretty sick as well.

    I don't necessarily agree with all abortions, but I support the choice. What another woman chooses to do with her body is none of my business or anyone elses.
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  5. #5
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    Re: Abortions for ANY reasons?

    For me the issue is pretty simple: legally, nobody has a right to force a woman to undergo pregnancy and childbirth when she does not want to. End of story... as far as the law is concerned.

    If we take it to the ethical argument, though, it goes along the same lines as sex selection via abortion. Take a look at India, where the ratio of males to females is astonishingly skewed toward males, because having a female child ultimately proves to be a liability, both financially and socially, for Indian families. From a cultural perspective, there is no good reason to want to have a girl except for personal choice, and there are many good reasons to *not* want to have one if you could choose to have a boy instead. The same could be said of having a child that could be certain of being homosexual.

    Look at it this way. At its most basic level, the purpose of reproduction is to carry on your genetic line and ensure that it gets augmented by the genetic material of the best mate you can attract. At the next level, the idea is to ensure that your values, beliefs, and goals will continue to exist in some form through the medium of your children and (presumably) grandchildren, etc. after you're gone. If you could know with certainty that your child would not accomplish any of the most basic goals implied by reproducing, why would you choose to go through the emotional, physical, and financial hardship of bringing that life into the world? From an evolutionary standpoint, it gives you nothing. Your line will die with that person without extraordinary measures, many of which are not legally recognized in some countries. From a social/psychological standpoint, your values and beliefs may be carried on to one generation, but you cannot be certain that they will be carried on to the next generation after your child. So... ethically, it doesn't seem reasonable to force someone to undergo that process and expend so much time and effort to essentially accomplish nothing, from a purely selfish standpoint.

    Morally... well... I guess that depends on what morals you subscribe to. If you believe that it is a moral responsibility to ensure that the human race is improved by your genetic or psychosocial contribution (and you are conceited enough to believe that your genetic or psychosocial contribution is worth that much), then it would almost be immoral to have a child that you could verifiably demonstrate would never help you achieve your moral duties and would, in fact, make it more difficult to accomplish them if at some point you were to have a child that *would* reproduce. Better to devote all of your efforts to the ones you know will be constructive than to spend effort on one that you know will not.

    Of course, if you believe that it is morally wrong to end human life of any sort, at any time... this is a non-issue. Obviously, the duty to protect life supercedes the duty to ensure that your own genes carry on, because that duty supercedes everything, including a person's autonomy in the reproductive process.

    But... since morals aren't really something we can debate easily (due to their subjective nature) I'd say that the ethical or the physical/evolutionary approach is most constructive for continuing the debate.

  6. #6
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    Re: Abortions fro ANY reasons?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dionysus View Post
    Did Spartacus just post the same news story from five years ago and pass it off as current? Interesting.

    A woman should be able to abort her child for any reason.

  7. #7
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    Re: Abortions for ANY reasons?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tarja View Post
    Pathetic. I imagine Christians couldnt abort their gay son, they'd just brainwash them from the moment they were born and try and convert the kid to heterosexuality.

    No wonder the suicide rate among homosexuals is so high.
    Where did all that come from? What part of WhoamI's post actually referred to his religious affiliation?

    Imo, if a woman is going to abort a child who might have down syndrome, if a woman aborts because she is not ready to have a child, or for whatever reason that SHOULD be the woman's choice.

    That also goes for if a woman wants to have an abortion because the child MIGHT turn out gay is the woman's choice.

    Yes, I think some reason's behind some abortions are ignorant, but it is still not my place to tell a woman that she can not abort...
    Show me the government that does not infringe upon anyone's rights, and I will no longer call myself an anarchist.~Jacob Halbrooks
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  8. #8
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    Re: Abortions for ANY reasons?

    This is interesting. Abortion is still considered surgery, right? Should people be able to have any type of surgery they desire, whenever they desire it? Should a person be able to have a limb removed because they find it unattractive? Should someone be able to force a doctor to electively remove his kidney even though it isn't failing? Should someone be able to have surgery to open up an artery that isn't clogged? Should someone be able to abort a fetus that isn't defective or threatening the life of the host?

    Why is abortion considered wholly unique among medical operations? Honestly. I am not some Christian opposed to abortion. I actually don't have a moral opposition to abortion. I don't consider it murder. I simply find the extreme view that abortion should be allowed at any time for anybody to be somewhat absurd. It is as absurd as the opposite view where abortion should be completely banned. Now, when abortion is being used to prevent children being born based on genetic factors not overtly defective (gay as opposed to down syndrome), this seems to break some ethical code by doctors who should be refusing operations which encourage eugenics like behavior. Imagine parents start having abortions when its determined their children don't have blue eyes or blond hair. Unfettered abortions is simply unethical.

    ---------- Post added at 10:44 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:34 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Just Me View Post
    Where did all that come from? What part of WhoamI's post actually referred to his religious affiliation?

    Imo, if a woman is going to abort a child who might have down syndrome, if a woman aborts because she is not ready to have a child, or for whatever reason that SHOULD be the woman's choice.

    That also goes for if a woman wants to have an abortion because the child MIGHT turn out gay is the woman's choice.

    Yes, I think some reason's behind some abortions are ignorant, but it is still not my place to tell a woman that she can not abort...
    No, its not YOUR place. But, it can rightfully be society's place. As a society, we define ethics and rules associated with ethical behavior all the time. I cannot smoke in a federal building. You cannot swear in a courtroom. You cannot yell fire in a crowded theater. You cannot show pornography on network television. You cannot tell lies about someone else and print them as being truthful. You cannot plagiarize someone else's work.

    A doctor takes a Hippocratic oath which states, among other things, do no harm. There is argument regarding whether it is ethical for doctors to preside over state executions. Certainly, in the case of an elective abortive procedure, the doctor is playing footsie with this basic oath. Isn't it unethical for him to break this?

    We are individuals, free to exercise our rights of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. This doesn't mean we have no obligations towards meeting the ethical demands of the society which provides us with and maintains those rights. A woman's body is her own. Yet, I'd argue it is as unethical for a doctor to poke her eye out because she dislikes its shape as it is for a doctor to perform an abortion when the only reason is the woman's lack of desire for having the fetus turn into a homosexual adult.
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  9. #9
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    Re: Abortions for ANY reasons?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ibelsd View Post
    This is interesting. Abortion is still considered surgery, right? Should people be able to have any type of surgery they desire, whenever they desire it?
    IMO, yes, if they can find a doctor to perform.

    Should a person be able to have a limb removed because they find it unattractive?
    Why not? Who's it harming?

    Should someone be able to force a doctor to electively remove his kidney even though it isn't failing?
    That's just it. No one is forcing the doctor to perform the abortion..

    Should someone be able to have surgery to open up an artery that isn't clogged?
    Find a doctor to do, then yes they should..

    Should someone be able to abort a fetus that isn't defective or threatening the life of the host?
    Yes, they should...

    Why is abortion considered wholly unique among medical operations? Honestly. I am not some Christian opposed to abortion. I actually don't have a moral opposition to abortion. I don't consider it murder. I simply find the extreme view that abortion should be allowed at any time for anybody to be somewhat absurd. It is as absurd as the opposite view where abortion should be completely banned. Now, when abortion is being used to prevent children being born based on genetic factors not overtly defective (gay as opposed to down syndrome), this seems to break some ethical code by doctors who should be refusing operations which encourage eugenics like behavior. Imagine parents start having abortions when its determined their children don't have blue eyes or blond hair. Unfettered abortions is simply unethical.
    As ignorant as we may think the reason is, yes they should be allowed to..


    No, its not YOUR place. But, it can rightfully be society's place. As a society, we define ethics and rules associated with ethical behavior all the time. I cannot smoke in a federal building. You cannot swear in a courtroom. You cannot yell fire in a crowded theater. You cannot show pornography on network television. You cannot tell lies about someone else and print them as being truthful. You cannot plagiarize someone else's work.
    The places you listed above does not belong to you, therefor the ones over the places can make whatever rules they want for the buildings/rooms. The other two you listed involves someone else. Now if you want to tell lies about yourself and print them as being truthful there is nothing saying you can't...
    So abortions are totally different then the examples you listed. Abortions are not performed in a public place or any other place where there is a rule against it. Abortions involve the owners of the *item*.

    A doctor takes a Hippocratic oath which states, among other things, do no harm.
    The harm is being done to who? The fetus is not yet defined as a person.

    There is argument regarding whether it is ethical for doctors to preside over state executions.
    Could that possibly be because the one being executed is a person? The fetus is not legally defined as a person..


    Certainly, in the case of an elective abortive procedure, the doctor is playing footsie with this basic oath. Isn't it unethical for him to break this?
    How is he breaking it? He is not harming anyone that is legally defined as a person.


    A woman's body is her own. Yet, I'd argue it is as unethical for a doctor to poke her eye out because she dislikes its shape as it is for a doctor to perform an abortion when the only reason is the woman's lack of desire for having the fetus turn into a homosexual adult.
    As long as the doctor does not 'poke' the eye out in a harmful manner then the woman should be allowed to have her eye removed.

    So is it safe to assume you think it is unethical for a doctor to perform plastic surgery for someone who wants a new face simply because they do not like the one they have? How about nose jobs?
    Show me the government that does not infringe upon anyone's rights, and I will no longer call myself an anarchist.~Jacob Halbrooks
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  10. #10
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    Re: Abortions for ANY reasons?

    Quote Originally Posted by Just Me View Post
    IMO, yes, if they can find a doctor to perform.

    Why not? Who's it harming?
    Are you claiming cosmetic removal of a limb is not harmful?

    Quote Originally Posted by Just Me View Post
    That's just it. No one is forcing the doctor to perform the abortion..
    Actually, in the case of abortion, it seems doctors are being forced to provide them since the argument is that denying someone an abortion is denying a woman her basic right to have one. Another absurd position.

    Quote Originally Posted by Just Me View Post
    Find a doctor to do, then yes they should..


    Yes, they should...


    As ignorant as we may think the reason is, yes they should be allowed to..
    Well, I'll give you points for being consistent.

    Quote Originally Posted by Just Me View Post
    The places you listed above does not belong to you, therefor the ones over the places can make whatever rules they want for the buildings/rooms. The other two you listed involves someone else. Now if you want to tell lies about yourself and print them as being truthful there is nothing saying you can't...
    So abortions are totally different then the examples you listed. Abortions are not performed in a public place or any other place where there is a rule against it. Abortions involve the owners of the *item*.
    A hospital typically doesn't belong to the patient either. I am saying its unethical for the doctor to perform unnecessary operations on people. Its unethical for the doctor to perform an abortion on someone else's body for reasons due to superfluous reasons.

    Quote Originally Posted by Just Me View Post
    The harm is being done to who? The fetus is not yet defined as a person.
    All surgeries can potentially be life threatening. Furthermore, abortion can lead to other health risks, such as being unable to reproduce in the future.

    Quote Originally Posted by Just Me View Post
    Could that possibly be because the one being executed is a person? The fetus is not legally defined as a person..
    Last I checked, the mother (or potential mother) is considered a person. I have not mentioned whether a fetus should have rights equivalent to a non-fetus human (trying to keep the language as neutral as possible).


    Quote Originally Posted by Just Me View Post
    How is he breaking it? He is not harming anyone that is legally defined as a person.
    The following lists a hosts of potential risk associated with all surgeries
    http://surgery.about.com/od/beforesu...sksSurgery.htm

    Or as this dissertation states
    http://www.ctlab.org/documents/FirstDoNoHarm.pdf
    "Each time a surgeon makes an incision and cuts into the internal structures of the patientís body, the delicate balance of the Hippocratic Oath is challenged."

    Or as noted here in discussing elective c-sections
    http://www.kaisernetwork.org/daily_r...cfm?DR_ID=7996
    "A C-section is a surgery and no matter how you look at it, there are always going to be more risks than there are with a vaginal delivery," Dr. Caitlin Fiss, an assistant professor of obstetrics and gynecology at Weill Cornell Medical College, said, adding that as a doctor her "first responsibility is to 'do no harm,' and an unnecessary surgery is tantamount to doing harm."


    Quote Originally Posted by Just Me View Post
    As long as the doctor does not 'poke' the eye out in a harmful manner then the woman should be allowed to have her eye removed.
    Huh? How can a perfectly functioning eye be removed in a non-harmful manner? The best the patient could for is that she'll only see half as well. Also, consider the support above where ALL unnecessary surgery should be considered harmful.

    Quote Originally Posted by Just Me View Post
    So is it safe to assume you think it is unethical for a doctor to perform plastic surgery for someone who wants a new face simply because they do not like the one they have? How about nose jobs?
    I certainly think there are ethical issues concerning plastic surgery which are outside the scope of this debate.
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  11. #11
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    Re: Abortions for ANY reasons?

    From a medical ethics perspective, any physician who agreed to remove a perfectly functioning limb or eye from someone where it was not medically indicated would probably lose his or her license without a *very* good explanation.

    Someone who randomly decides to have their arm chopped off needs to have a thorough psych evaluation and would almost certainly not be deemed competent to give informed consent for a procedure of the nature that they are requesting. Any self-respecting doctor would refer a patient making such a request to a good psychiatrist.

    That said, this has absolutely nothing to do with the status of abortions, since there is a legitimate reason to have an abortion procedure done even if there is no complication with the pregnancy or deformity to the fetus. That legitimate reason is that, by default, pregnancy and childbirth are inherently dangerous, taxing processes that permanently change womens' bodies and entail the birth of a new dependent person that comes with all sorts of legal and financial obligations. Anyone who is unwilling to handle these things has a perfectly valid reason to have an abortion simply by virtue of this fact.

  12. #12
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    Re: Abortions for ANY reasons?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tarja View Post
    Pathetic.
    LMAO....over-react much?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tarja View Post
    I imagine Christians couldnt abort their gay son, they'd just brainwash them from the moment they were born and try and convert the kid to heterosexuality.
    Hidden premise much?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tarja View Post
    No wonder the suicide rate among homosexuals is so high.
    They should not live a lifestyle that they are ashamed of then.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tarja View Post
    I am fine with abortion for whatever reason. Thats my opinion, and if someone wants to abort because their kid might be gay, I dont have to like it, but as far as I am concerned, it isn't my choice to make.
    Wow...this is EXACTLY what I said, yet, when I said it, it was pathetic....

    I guess we can hypocrisy to your list of vices.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tarja View Post
    Yes. I might sound barbaric to some, but I think lifers who want to ban abortion and wouldn't care about women dying the streets due to illegal abortions are pretty sick as well.
    Lifer is just such an evil term to you huh? Being against the murder of innocent babies is just so barbaric. That is truly pathetic. If the woman chooses to violate the law (assuming it was illegal) then she must accept the potential consequences.It any rate, it is a choice that she is making of her own free will. Innocent babies do not have that choice. But a Lib of your degree thinks it is perfectly acceptable give partial birth to a baby and then ram a giant needle into its brain to kill it.

    Yeah...

    Thats not sick....

    Quote Originally Posted by Tarja View Post
    I don't necessarily agree with all abortions, but I support the choice. What another woman chooses to do with her body is none of my business or anyone elses.
    What about the baby? Has he/she no choice?

    Ronald Reagan said once that he found it amazing that everyone that is for abortions has already been born.

    You know what I truly find the most sickening about Liberalism?... especially Liberalism to the degree you subscribe to.... Is that you value the life of a serial killing mass rapist of little children MORE than the life of an unborn baby.

    You value evil above innocence.

    THAT is pathetic in the highest form.

  13. #13
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    Re: Abortions for ANY reasons?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ibelsd View Post
    Are you claiming cosmetic removal of a limb is not harmful?
    The surgery itself has a risk that goes with it. All surgerys have risks.. But those risks do not carry a 100% chance of happening..

    Actually, in the case of abortion, it seems doctors are being forced to provide them since the argument is that denying someone an abortion is denying a woman her basic right to have one. Another absurd position.
    Care to support that doctors are being forced to perform abortions?

    A hospital typically doesn't belong to the patient either.
    I agree.. That's why patients as well as visitors have to follow hospital policies..


    I am saying its unethical for the doctor to perform unnecessary operations on people.
    This includes all operations? Even operations on hermaphrodites?
    All surgeries can potentially be life threatening.
    I agree

    Furthermore, abortion can lead to other health risks, such as being unable to reproduce in the future.
    There is a chance of other health risks from abortions. What is the % of this happening though?
    That's like saying it is unethical for me to ask someone to get in their car and bring me something because them getting into a vehicle can lead to them having a car accident.


    Last I checked, the mother (or potential mother) is considered a person. I have not mentioned whether a fetus should have rights equivalent to a non-fetus human (trying to keep the language as neutral as possible).
    Yes, the mother is considered a person. That's why as with all surgeries the mother would sign giving them permission, basically signing a waver.

    Or as this dissertation states
    http://www.ctlab.org/documents/FirstDoNoHarm.pdf
    "Each time a surgeon makes an incision and cuts into the internal structures of the patientís body, the delicate balance of the Hippocratic Oath is challenged."
    Then I guess Refractive surgery is unethical and tubal ligation is unethical, huh?

    Or as noted here in discussing elective c-sections
    http://www.kaisernetwork.org/daily_r...cfm?DR_ID=7996
    "A C-section is a surgery and no matter how you look at it, there are always going to be more risks than there are with a vaginal delivery," Dr. Caitlin Fiss, an assistant professor of obstetrics and gynecology at Weill Cornell Medical College, said, adding that as a doctor her "first responsibility is to 'do no harm,' and an unnecessary surgery is tantamount to doing harm."
    So I guess these doctors who perform elective c-sections, tubal ligations, refractive surgeries are all breaking their oath..
    Huh? How can a perfectly functioning eye be removed in a non-harmful manner? The best the patient could for is that she'll only see half as well. Also, consider the support above where ALL unnecessary surgery should be considered harmful.
    Yes, there's risks that go along with surgeries...

    I certainly think there are ethical issues concerning plastic surgery which are outside the scope of this debate.
    Either elective surgeries including plastic surgery causes the doctor to break their oath or they don't..
    Show me the government that does not infringe upon anyone's rights, and I will no longer call myself an anarchist.~Jacob Halbrooks
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    Re: Abortions fro ANY reasons?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wolf Myth View Post
    Did Spartacus just post the same news story from five years ago and pass it off as current? Interesting.

    A woman should be able to abort her child for any reason.
    Because.....???? A little thought would be appreciated WM.

    Yes I used this story about five years ago. Most people here today though have never seen it and I thought it worth re-visiting.

    FYI -- about this time, I received much congratulations here for stating I was sending funds to a fictitious organization called "Sonograms for Asia" whose mission was supposedly to provide sonograms to impoverished people in Asia to determine the sex of their developing humans in utero to decide if they wanted to kill them or not based on their sex. Exposing the flaws of the "abortion at any time" argument

    And this brings us to the "it's about Choice" position and its inherrent flaws. In order to support this position -- one must support all choices.

    It also begs the question -- why do Liberals in the US condone abortion at any time for any or no reason -- yet castigate the Chinese secret practice of sometimes killing girl babies minutes after they are born. What is the difference? Biologically and ethically there is none. The mere location of a human -- inside the uterus or out -- should not determine if killing is wrong or acceptable.

    The "abortion at any time" stance thus only has intellectual integrity when it also supports abortion for unethical reasons a well. It is therefore an unethical position to hold.

    In India, sexually selective abortions are technically illegal. In the US under current laws, no such provisions could ever be enacted. Many in the West cite "financial" reasons as justififable reasons for killing developing humans -- yet blanche at Asians for killing female developing humans because females are viewed as an economic burden.
    "I've noticed that everyone who is for abortion has already been born" -- Ronald Reagan

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    Re: Abortions for ANY reasons?

    Quote Originally Posted by WhoamI View Post
    I am firmly against abortion for any reason.
    What about a rape victim?

    Quote Originally Posted by WhoamI View Post
    However, if abortion is going to remain legal....aborting because your son might be gay is just as good a reason as any other.
    Why does your son being gay have such a big impact on your opinion.

    It seems wierd to me that your are SO against abortion and thus for preservation of a life - yet at the same time, something as trivial as a persons lifestyle choice is suddenly a GOOD reason for them to not be allowed to come into the world.
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    Re: Abortions for ANY reasons?

    Quote Originally Posted by Swindall View Post
    It seems wierd to me that your are SO against abortion and thus for preservation of a life - yet at the same time, something as trivial as a persons lifestyle choice is suddenly a GOOD reason for them to not be allowed to come into the world.

    FYI -- the position you don't seem to understand is that abortion is wrong, except when the life of the mother is in danger.

    however, if abortion on demand is therefore "right" then killing a developing human with a genetic predisposition to being gay has just as much validity as say 'I feel like having an abortion -- just because."
    "I've noticed that everyone who is for abortion has already been born" -- Ronald Reagan

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    Re: Abortions for ANY reasons?

    Quote Originally Posted by Spartacus View Post
    FYI -- the position you don't seem to understand is that abortion is wrong, except when the life of the mother is in danger
    Are you stating your own position, or claiming I am misunderstanding Whoaml's position?

    Quote Originally Posted by Spartacus View Post
    however, if abortion on demand is therefore "right" then killing a developing human with a genetic predisposition to being gay has just as much validity as say 'I feel like having an abortion -- just because."
    I would have to respectfully disagree.

    If a women wants to abort the baby because she's not ready for children and thus won't be able to take proper care of the child. If a women was raped (as I said earlier) and didn't want a child - especially when the father of said child is a rapist.. (and the list goes on)...

    In these instances theres valid reasons, to say my son might be gay and THATS the reason... Then you are assuming homosexuality is wrong in itself - that is debateable. Therefore, it is not a valid reason.
    .::The Swindall::.

    "...In the beginning, man created god"

  18. #18
    I've been given a "timeout"

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    Re: Abortions for ANY reasons?

    Quote Originally Posted by Swindall View Post
    What about a rape victim?
    Nope

    Quote Originally Posted by Swindall View Post
    Why does your son being gay have such a big impact on your opinion.
    Does not have any impact on me. I would not be in favor of any abortion under any terms....including if you found out that your gay was likely to be gay.

    Quote Originally Posted by Swindall View Post
    It seems wierd to me that your are SO against abortion and thus for preservation of a life - yet at the same time, something as trivial as a persons lifestyle choice is suddenly a GOOD reason for them to not be allowed to come into the world.
    I do not, in stake contrast to many people on ODN, try to impose my beliefs on to others. If someone is in favor of abortion, then their reason for wanting abortion if they think their gay will be gay is just as valid as any other.

    I view it as pretty hypocritical that people will say that you can murder a child....just as long as you do it for reasons we dictate. If you are going to be a child murderer, and its going to remain legal, then murdering a child because he might be gay is just as valid a reason as any other.

  19. #19
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    Re: Abortions for ANY reasons?

    Quote Originally Posted by WhoamI View Post
    Nope
    So you believe it is okay for a women to be forced to have a child she didn't want to have? Forced being the key word there.

    Quote Originally Posted by WhoamI View Post
    Does not have any impact on me. I would not be in favor of any abortion under any terms....including if you found out that your gay was likely to be gay.
    It does have an impact on you in the sense that you believe it should be recognised as a valid reason for abortion. Which is why I said it's wierd how a lifestyle choice would make for a "good a reason as any" to have an abortion.

    Quote Originally Posted by WhoamI View Post
    I view it as pretty hypocritical that people will say that you can murder a child....just as long as you do it for reasons we dictate.
    Who dictates? The women who is going to be carrying the child?...

    Quote Originally Posted by WhoamI View Post
    If you are going to be a child murderer, and its going to remain legal, then murdering a child because he might be gay is just as valid a reason as any other.
    Why is it a "valid reason"?
    .::The Swindall::.

    "...In the beginning, man created god"

  20. #20
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    Re: Abortions for ANY reasons?

    I think there's a lot of confusion between "legal" and "right" here.

    If you support a woman's right to abortion then you support her right to make her own choices in whether she will have an abortion. That does not mean that you personally will agree with any possible decision she might might make, but you respect her right to make her own decisions.

    So one can think that it's wrong for a woman to abort a fetus because it will supposedly turn out gay, but if you are pro-choice then you generally respect her right to do just that.

    It's like being in favor of free speech but not necessarily approving of all uses of free speech - you can support the right to racist speech and yet disapprove of racist speech.

 

 
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