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  1. #21
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    Re: Evolution precludes original sin, and thus Christianity.

    Quote Originally Posted by snappycomeback View Post
    Love is from God because God is Love. Just as Jesus is the light of the world (meaning universe)). Everything that you can use to define love, in fact defines God. Love is patient, love is kind, slow to wrath, etc.
    Yes yes. And what does it mean for our argument when you say that God is love? What does it have to do with the price of fish in other words?
    "I am against religion because it teaches us to be satisfied with not understanding the world" - Richard Dawkins

    "If you could rationalize with Religious people there would be no more Religious people" -Gregory House

  2. #22
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    Re: Evolution precludes original sin, and thus Christianity.

    Sure, since you agree with me on this, then you should also understand that everything God does out of love. so God would never create in such a way that allows such death and disease during the creation process. See all was created in 6 days. Then all creation stopped. It was complete. God said all was very good after creation was finished. Not on top of millions of bones and death animals and disease.

  3. #23
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    Re: Evolution precludes original sin, and thus Christianity.

    Quote Originally Posted by snappycomeback View Post
    Sure, since you agree with me on this, then you should also understand that everything God does out of love. so God would never create in such a way that allows such death and disease during the creation process. See all was created in 6 days. Then all creation stopped. It was complete. God said all was very good after creation was finished. Not on top of millions of bones and death animals and disease.

    What do you mean God does everything "out of love"? Out love for whom?
    "I am against religion because it teaches us to be satisfied with not understanding the world" - Richard Dawkins

    "If you could rationalize with Religious people there would be no more Religious people" -Gregory House

  4. #24
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    Re: Evolution precludes original sin, and thus Christianity.

    Quote Originally Posted by Allocutus View Post
    What do you mean God does everything "out of love"? Out love for whom?
    out of love for all mankind. Those He created to love Him in return.


    Psalms 107: 1. Give thanks to the Lord, for he is good; His love endures forever.

    Psalms 107 :8. Let them give thanks to the Lord for his unfailing love and his wonderful deeds for men.

  5. #25
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    Re: Evolution precludes original sin, and thus Christianity.

    Quote Originally Posted by snappycomeback View Post
    out of love for all mankind. Those He created to love Him in return.


    Psalms 107: 1. Give thanks to the Lord, for he is good; His love endures forever.

    Psalms 107 :8. Let them give thanks to the Lord for his unfailing love and his wonderful deeds for men.
    Ahhhhh......so that explains it. SO when God has to deal with "break ups" or people just falling out of love with God....he gets all "Basic Instinct" on people and kills them!! but he "loves" them.

    *Insert George Carlin Joke*

    In Heaven there is no beer. That's why we drink it here.

    Rogue Cardinal, Member of the God-Awful Atheist Syndicate


  6. #26
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    Re: Evolution precludes original sin, and thus Christianity.

    Quote Originally Posted by snappycomeback View Post
    out of love for all mankind. Those He created to love Him in return.


    Psalms 107: 1. Give thanks to the Lord, for he is good; His love endures forever.

    Psalms 107 :8. Let them give thanks to the Lord for his unfailing love and his wonderful deeds for men.
    Well if God created mankind out of love for MANKIND then there's no issue of death and disease. God didn't rely on death and disease OF MANKIND in the process of creating mankind. He only relied on death and "disease" of animals who were mankind's ancestors. God's love for mankind is not relevant here.

    You might as well say that God couldn't create man out of mud because God loves mankind and would never resort to deformation (the structure of mud would necessarily need to be deformed to create man).
    "I am against religion because it teaches us to be satisfied with not understanding the world" - Richard Dawkins

    "If you could rationalize with Religious people there would be no more Religious people" -Gregory House

  7. #27
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    Re: Evolution precludes original sin, and thus Christianity.

    Quote Originally Posted by Allocutus View Post
    Well if God created mankind out of love for MANKIND then there's no issue of death and disease. God didn't rely on death and disease OF MANKIND in the process of creating mankind. He only relied on death and "disease" of animals who were mankind's ancestors. God's love for mankind is not relevant here.

    You might as well say that God couldn't create man out of mud because God loves mankind and would never resort to deformation (the structure of mud would necessarily need to be deformed to create man).
    sorry but I cannot make heads or tails of the last paragraph. And the answer to the above is a resounding no. God didn't use disease and death to create, that's not Gods nature. According to the Bible, everything is about mankind. God created all for us. Yes I know this contradicts your view and theory, but you have no way to prove yours up and I have the Bible. Which I'm sure according to you doesn't stand up, but we ARE speaking about God here, and the only place that speaks clearly about God is His word.

  8. #28
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    Re: Evolution precludes original sin, and thus Christianity.

    Quote Originally Posted by snappycomeback View Post
    sorry but I cannot make heads or tails of the last paragraph. And the answer to the above is a resounding no. God didn't use disease and death to create, that's not Gods nature. According to the Bible, everything is about mankind. God created all for us. Yes I know this contradicts your view and theory, but you have no way to prove yours up and I have the Bible. Which I'm sure according to you doesn't stand up, but we ARE speaking about God here, and the only place that speaks clearly about God is His word.

    Don't worry about the last paragraph, it was just a comparison. Not important.

    As for God's nature, I've already asked you to explain why it's not God's nature. Your response was that God is loving and therefore could not use death and disease to create us because He loves us. My response was that it's NOT US that would have suffered the "death and disease" during the process of creation (namely evolution) but merely animals who were our ancestors.

    Again, please support that it's against God's nature.

    ps. I'm not prepared to argue about proof of evolution at this point. You see, this thread isn't about whether evolution is true. No. It's about whether evolution (IF TRUE) precludes original sin and therefore Christianity.
    "I am against religion because it teaches us to be satisfied with not understanding the world" - Richard Dawkins

    "If you could rationalize with Religious people there would be no more Religious people" -Gregory House

  9. #29

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    Re: Evolution precludes original sin, and thus Christianity.

    Quote Originally Posted by snappycomeback View Post
    Yes I know this contradicts your view and theory, but you have no way to prove yours up
    I thought we'd beaten this argument to death threads ago.

    I've told you this, like, ten times:

    Quote Originally Posted by The Great Khan
    Living things produce offspring. (proven by scientific observation and common sense)

    These offspring are born different than their parents due to genetic recombination (proven by scientific inquiry and investigation),

    and thus possess traits that will either help or hinder them in their environment (proven by scientific observation).

    Certain offspring (due to mutation) are born with traits that allow them to better survive in their environment (proven by scientific observation and common sense).

    These offspring, suitably endowed with favorable characteristics, will, barring extenuating circumstances, like disease or freak accidents, survive to pass on these traits (proven by scientific observation)

    If the environment does not change, and continues to favor this trait, more descendants of the original organisms born with the favorable trait will survive to pass it on, increasing its occurrence within the general population. (proven by scientific observation)

    If the trait bestows an extreme survival advantage, it will soon become the norm for the population, seeing as the individuals that possess the trait will be best equipped to survive and reproduce, thus passing on the trait and making it so that just about every individual in the population has it. (proven by scientific observation)

    Numerous changes can add up to cause the species to change into "another species" (proven by inference. just because we can't observe it due to our limited lifespan does not mean that it does not happen. nature does not mold behavior based on what humans can or cannot live to see. there is no reason to believe that reproduction and passing on traits that change populations "stops" at any point. indeed if it did, species would die out, as they would possess outdated and useless traits that were unfit for a changing environment.)
    and I have the Bible.
    And I have the Vedas. And my Muslim friend has the Quaran. And my Jewish neighbors have the Tanakh. Scripture party!

    Which I'm sure according to you doesn't stand up,
    We've been over this also. Just because the Bible says something does not necessarily make it true. You can use the Bible to back up your argument, but unsupported Biblical statements will get you neg repped to death and subsequently banned...again.

  10. #30
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    Re: Evolution precludes original sin, and thus Christianity.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Great Khan View Post
    I thought we'd beaten this argument to death threads ago.

    I've told you this, like, ten times:





    And I have the Vedas. And my Muslim friend has the Quaran. And my Jewish neighbors have the Tanakh. Scripture party!



    We've been over this also. Just because the Bible says something does not necessarily make it true. You can use the Bible to back up your argument, but unsupported Biblical statements will get you neg repped to death and subsequently banned...again.
    simple solution... don't participate by addressing my post. Its not like I'm chasing after you and neggin you out and saying you should be banned, am I? Well good luck!

    ---------- Post added at 01:18 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:16 PM ----------

    And look at my rep... does it look like I actually care what people think of my words. No, it doesn't.

  11. #31
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    Re: Evolution precludes original sin, and thus Christianity.

    If there was no Adam and Eve, then they could have commited no sin. There is no need for us to be punished. Maybe this could have been symbolic. I do not see the logic in punishing someone for someone else's sin anyway.
    Question with boldness even the existence of a god; because if there be one he must approve of the homage of reason more than that of blindfolded fear.

    -Thomas Jefferson, letter to Peter Carr, August 10, 1787

 

 
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