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  1. #101
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    Re: Are the Ten Commandments still applicable to Christians?

    Quote Originally Posted by xceptionalguy View Post
    Considering it has already been discussed in another thread that the Mormon faith is severely lacking and false. The prophecies it claims have been false and their prophets have been wrong on many occasion.

    As welll as claims that Muhammad makes within the Qur'an there are claims by Muhammad which he turns around and contradicts himself.

    We can pretty much understand that polytheism is false and you cannot serve two masters, let alone 13 million.

    Pantheism is also quite false considering that God is eternal and His creation is not. Therefore God cannot be the creation.

    Now back to Christianity: you seem to have convinced yourselves that it's false, on what grounds?

    Also you seem to have SOLID evidence for evolution. However there is none. Yet you believe it hook, line, and stinker. You clearly believe this upon faith and by choice.
    I took much effort to explain some powerful evidence for evolution following your objections in the other thread. You did not address any of that. And yet you feel perfectly justified in just repeating the same claim here (that there is no evidence for evolution).
    "I am against religion because it teaches us to be satisfied with not understanding the world" - Richard Dawkins

    "If you could rationalize with Religious people there would be no more Religious people" -Gregory House

  2. #102
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    Re: Are the Ten Commandments still applicable to Christians?

    Hasn't xceptionalguy been banned? So there's no need to even reply to him
    Show me the government that does not infringe upon anyone's rights, and I will no longer call myself an anarchist.~Jacob Halbrooks
    "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.~Benjamin Franklin
    "Go big or Go home"~ LoLo Bean

  3. #103
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    Re: Are the Ten Commandments still applicable to Christians?

    What has always baffled me is that Christians equivocate the ten rules in Exodus 20 with the rules written on the stone tablets. A full reading of the passage will reveal this at the start of Exodus 34 (KJV)

    34:1 And the LORD said unto Moses, Hew thee two tables of stone like unto the first: and I will write upon these tables the words that were in the first tables, which thou brakest.

    So almost fifteen verses after the "ten commandments" are given is when God provides the stone tablets, so they are not the same thing. I should also highlight the fact that what is written on this second set of tablets is identical to what was written on the first (according to the verse).

    So what are the actual commandments written on the tablets, well:

    34:14 (1) For thou shalt worship no other god: for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God:
    34:15 Lest thou make a covenant with the inhabitants of the land, and they go a whoring after their gods, and do sacrifice unto their gods, and one call thee, and thou eat of his sacrifice;
    34:16 And thou take of their daughters unto thy sons, and their daughters go a whoring after their gods, and make thy sons go a whoring after their gods.
    34:17 (2) Thou shalt make thee no molten gods.
    34:18 (3) The feast of unleavened bread shalt thou keep. Seven days thou shalt eat unleavened bread, as I commanded thee, in the time of the month Abib: for in the month Abib thou camest out from Egypt.
    34:19 (4) All that openeth the matrix is mine; and every firstling among thy cattle, whether ox or sheep, that is male.
    34:20 But the firstling of an ass thou shalt redeem with a lamb: and if thou redeem him not, then shalt thou break his neck. All the firstborn of thy sons thou shalt redeem. And none shall appear before me empty.
    34:21 (5) Six days thou shalt work, but on the seventh day thou shalt rest: in earing time and in harvest thou shalt rest.
    34:22 (6) And thou shalt observe the feast of weeks, of the firstfruits of wheat harvest, and the feast of ingathering at the year's end.
    34:23 (7) Thrice in the year shall all your menchildren appear before the LORD God, the God of Israel.
    34:24 For I will cast out the nations before thee, and enlarge thy borders: neither shall any man desire thy land, when thou shalt go up to appear before the LORD thy God thrice in the year.
    34:25 (8) Thou shalt not offer the blood of my sacrifice with leaven; neither shall the sacrifice of the feast of the passover be left unto the morning.
    34:26 (9) The first of the firstfruits of thy land thou shalt bring unto the house of the LORD thy God. (10) Thou shalt not seethe a kid in his mother's milk.

    (the bolded areas mark the commandments)

  4. #104
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    Re: Are the Ten Commandments still applicable to Christians?

    Quote Originally Posted by SGTPeppers
    What has always baffled me is that Christians equivocate the ten rules
    Could you please elaborate on this? How do Christians equivocate these rules?
    "Suffering lies not with inequality, but with dependence." -Voltaire
    "Fallacies do not cease to be fallacies because they become fashions.Ē -G.K. Chesterton
    Also, if you think I've overlooked your post please shoot me a PM, I'm not intentionally ignoring you.


  5. #105
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    Re: Are the Ten Commandments still applicable to Christians?

    Sorry, wrong word. I am saying that they claim the 10 rules in Exodus 20 are the same as the rules on written on stone tablets at Sinai, not given until Exodus 34 and completely different.

  6. #106
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    Re: Are the Ten Commandments still applicable to Christians?

    Wiki has a nice article on this (the two/three sets of 10 commandments)
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ritual_Decalogue

    The upshot is that opinions vary widely on what the meaning is. Some say they simply have different authors with different intents and beliefs. That's what seems most likely to me. Competing traditions were combined in the bible as it was assembled over the years. 10 commandments is a very nice kind of number (though not the usual magic numbers found in the bible (7, 40 and 12)). There is also debate about which was written first and why.

    Attempts to apologize the sources speculate that the original commandments may have included both or that the ethical were verbal and the ritual were recorded on the tablets. A few different ideas.

    What is clear for Christians is they have abandoned the traditional ritual laws of Judaism so the ritual Decalog is not longer of much importance to them other than as historical interest. The ethical commandments on the other hand still hold more applicability to their faith and sense of ethics so that is what they refer to. Jews of course still adhere to the ritual laws (at least in principle).

    Likewise as an Atheist I have far more interest in the ethical laws rather than the ritual ones. I don't have much use for ritual or symbolism but ethics are important to me and any human system of ethics is of interest.

    Here is how they apply to me
    6 I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery;
    7 you shall have no other gods before me.
    Not an ethical law for me. Though in some small measure I follow it as I put no other god before him.

    8 You shall not make for yourself an idol, whether in the form of anything that is in heaven above, or that is on the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.
    9 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, punishing children for the iniquity of parents, to the third and fourth generation of those who reject me,
    10 but showing steadfast love to the thousandth generation of those who love me and keep my commandments.
    Again, of no consequence ethically, but I tend to follow this if you consider an Idol something you worship rather than just a statue. I own lots of statues (miniatures) of things.

    11 You shall not make wrongful use of the name of the Lord your God, for the Lord will not acquit anyone who misuses his name.
    Again, not an ethical concern from a humanist perspective but I try not to do this around christians I know, sometimes I make a mistake. They generally acquit me which I appreciate but don't require.

    12 Observe the sabbath day and keep it holy, as the Lord your God commanded you.
    13 For six days you shall labour and do all your work.
    14 But the seventh day is a Sabbath to the Lord your God; you shall not do any work—you, or your son or your daughter, or your male or female slave, or your ox or your donkey, or any of your livestock, or the resident alien in your towns, so that your male and female slave may rest as well as you.
    15 Remember that you were a slave in the land of Egypt, and the Lord your God brought you out from there with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm; therefore the Lord your God commanded you to keep the sabbath day.
    Not ethical in my mind. I don't follow this. I do from time to time declare a personal sabbath day where I commit to relax and take it easy. I find its a good practical thing to do for mental health, but I wouldn't call it a question of ethics.

    16 Honor your father and your mother, as the Lord your God commanded you, so that your days may be long and that it may go well with you in the land that the Lord your God is giving you.
    I try. I would not honor them if they were not worthy of it, but generally I do this and think it is an ethical thing to do. We all owe our parents some debt, though sometimes they make it hard to honor if they themselves are not honorable people.

    17 You shall not murder.
    Absolutely. One of the most critical ethical laws there is.

    18 Neither shall you commit adultery.
    Ethical and very important. Now I consider adultery only possible when you are committed to another person in some fashion. I'm OK with sex out of marriage though I advise a lot of caution with that. Even if not married, if you made a commitment to someone, you should honor that and you should not enter into relationships of passion lightly or rashly.

    19 Neither shall you steal.
    Very ethical and I agree. I make allowances for survival and depending on the damage done by the stealing. Not that it is not wrong, but this is a crime that is sometimes easy to forgive if the motives are about survival or in the face of oppression.

    20 Neither shall you bear false witness against your neighbor.
    Id say against anyone. This is very important to me. Lying in general I'm against, though I think there are times it is excusable for some other good. But this is the worst form of lying.

    21 Neither shall you covet your neighbor’s wife. Neither shall you desire your neighbor’s house, or field, or male or female slave, or ox, or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor.
    Interesting in that we already have no stealing, and now we have no coveting. I don't think I'd say its wrong to want things others have, though perhaps covet goes well beyond that. None the less it is very good and wise advice. And this time I think the neighbor clause is important and relevant. Those you work and share space with are the last folks you want to covet of though it does happen a lot.
    Feed me some debate pellets!

 

 
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