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  1. #81
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    Re: Evolution is false

    Quote Originally Posted by MyXenocide View Post
    Evolution is random, entirely so. What happens is the organisms have offspring some of which have a random mutation.
    We are learning there is far more to it than that. Not all evolution is due to mutation, and not all mutations are random. The mutations which survive are hardly random at all. You can have 1000 mutations, but only the ones that aid survival or fail to prevent it will continue, that is a mechanistic deterministic system.

    Imagine I made a robot that traveled through a maze and made uninformed decisions by rolling dice but would never repeat choices that end in failure to escape from the maze. When it gets to the exit.. and it will, you would say it did so randomly or deliberately? Evolution has a random like mechanic, but as an overall system it has a deliberate purposeful and natural aim. The random part is even deterministic in that without it adaptation would be near impossible. It is a random system that serves a deliberate end.

    It is then the environment that the organism is in that decides if the mutation is positive of negative. If positive the organism has a better chance of surviving and having offspring. These offspring would also have this positive mutation, giving it to their children, so on a so forth. If the mutation is negative then the organism dies off. Also if the environment changes, then what is positive and negative can change as well.
    Yes but that is not random. It is an adaptive system that achieves a consistent result despite a constantly changing circumstances and without the need for a deliberate guiding intelligence. The random element is very small, just enough to cause variation over large iterations. The overall system of evolution is far more than random mutation.
    Feed me some debate pellets!

  2. #82
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    Re: Evolution is false

    Quote Originally Posted by MyXenocide View Post
    Evolution is random, entirely so. What happens is the organisms have offspring some of which have a random mutation. It is then the environment that the organism is in that decides if the mutation is positive of negative. If positive the organism has a better chance of surviving and having offspring. These offspring would also have this positive mutation, giving it to their children, so on a so forth. If the mutation is negative then the organism dies off. Also if the environment changes, then what is positive and negative can change as well.
    Evolution is not random. Natural selection is not a random force, but actually predictable to a great degree. Some experiments hint that certain aspects of changes in the genome are non-random as well.

    ---------- Post added at 11:25 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:37 PM ----------

    There is even evidence that some species will induce mutations under harsh environmental conditions.

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  4. #84
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    Re: Evolution is false

    Quote Originally Posted by Zhavric View Post
    There is so much wrong with your post, it has inspired me to begin a new thread.
    Well let's hope that this time you manage to do so without serving so much red herring.

  5. #85
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    Re: Evolution is false

    Quote Originally Posted by MyXenocide View Post
    The genetic variation on which natural selection acts may occur randomly
    Let's change the highlighting to provide focus on the most important term in the statement. "May occur" means, "We don't really know, this is just our best conclusion based on current observations."

    Maybe it's random. Maybe it's not. We don't know. We haven't detected a pattern, yet. However, there's also currently too many variables and until we find more effective ways to control for them, we won't know for sure.
    "... freedom is not, as we are told, a liberty for every man to do what he lists but a liberty to dispose, and order as he lists, his person, actions, possessions, and his whole property, within the allowance of those laws under which he is, and therein not to be subject to the arbitrary will of another, but freely follow his own." -- John Locke, Second Treatise on Government

  6. #86
    bible
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    Re: Evolution is false

    If and its a big if evolution exists why have humans not changed into some form of new creature or something more spiritual well the answer is there is no evolution if there was then humans would have changed over the 6400 years the earth has been around how cold we not have i mean why have we not changed if evolution is happening all around us. i might not put LOGIC in this post but i do pose a great question that no one,s logic has a answer for

  7. #87
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    Re: Evolution is false

    Quote Originally Posted by bible View Post
    If and its a big if evolution exists why have humans not changed into some form of new creature or something more spiritual well the answer is there is no evolution if there was then humans would have changed over the 6400 years the earth has been around how cold we not have i mean why have we not changed if evolution is happening all around us. i might not put LOGIC in this post but i do pose a great question that no one,s logic has a answer for
    We are evolving. One can look at comparisons of ancient DNA isolated from ancient humans, neanderthals, and other hominids and compare it to different populations of modern humans and directly see within the genome the evolutionary changes that have occurred.

  8. #88
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    Re: Evolution is false

    People Evolution is observable FACT. It has been proven and frankly im tired of these people using the Bible to defend thier position, "because the Bible says so", does not make me feel any better about your position.

    http://www.millerandlevine.com/km/evol/Moths/moths.html

    The Peppered Moth, please read and enjoy.

  9. #89
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    Re: Evolution is false

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnAdams View Post
    People Evolution is observable FACT. It has been proven and frankly im tired of these people using the Bible to defend thier position, "because the Bible says so", does not make me feel any better about your position.

    http://www.millerandlevine.com/km/evol/Moths/moths.html

    The Peppered Moth, please read and enjoy.
    2 Problems here...

    1) You've misused the allowable link system. As per our rules:
    The following should be followed for proper citation in threads:
    1) Other posters should not need to actually click on the link to read your support. The link is primarily for verification purposes and to allow the reader access to further details on the topic - the relevant material you want to use from it should be contained in your post itself. Depending on the context, any of the following options might be suitable:
    • Quote the material verbatim. This does not give you license to copy-and-paste large chunks of text and expect other posters to wade through them to find your support. You should be concise and quote only as much as is needed to support your claim.
    • Paraphrase the material. If you go this route, make sure your paraphrase is accurate and does not misrepresent or exaggerate what the source actually says.
    • If it is a video, you should describe (or if possible, transcribe) the relevant portions of the video that support your claim. Also, if the video allows, point out the key time frames of the relevant information in the video. Don't expect other members to load and watch the video in its entirety to find your cited evidence.
    • If your support is a graphic (e.g. a graph) that can fit comfortably in a post, post the graphic using image tags in your post itself. Else, download the image, then attach the image to the post.

    2) When quoting material, the quoted text should be clearly set apart from your main text. The best way to do this is to use indents (to prevent confusion, it is better to reserve quote tags for quoting the poster(s) you are responding to). Simply enclosing your quoted text in inverted commas is not acceptable.

    3) You should make it easy for other posters to locate the part of your source that supports your claim. So:
    • If your support is buried in a 5-page article, you should link to the exact page where your support appears (instead of the start of the article).
    • If your support is another post buried in a multi-page thread, you should link to the specific post and not the entire thread. (In case you didn't know already, the number at the top-right hand corner of each post is the link to that specific post.) If your support is spread over multiple posts, state the relevant post numbers.

    4) If it is not self-evident, you should explain how the source supports the exact claim you made. For example, if your claim is "The Iraq War is a failure" and your source talks about the death toll of American soldiers in Iraq, do not think that simply citing the source is sufficient to support your claim. You need to explain why this death toll means that the Iraq War has failed.
    2) You are guilty of the strawman fallacy. No one here has argued that evolution is not true because the Bible says so.

    I recommend before responding to a thread, that you actually read the thread John Adams (or at least the part you wish to respond to).
    -=]Apokalupsis[=-
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    I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. - Thomas Jefferson




  10. #90
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    Re: Evolution is false

    No Evolution is there, just most people are afraid of Evolution. why? because most people think if we evolve to much it might be a bad thing. apple doesn't care about the bad things of evolution. also alot of car company's don't care, because they think evolution is another name for money to them. Also car company's. because they think if they evolve their cars to be better, they think it is o.k because they think more gas mileage and better looken' cars. but to much evolution is a bad thing, maybe to the point were people become fat. like watch the movie Wall-E then you know what i am talking about. Thank you.
    Last edited by Sean Skipper; August 30th, 2011 at 02:52 PM. Reason: typo and i thought my grammar was a little off.

  11. #91
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    Re: Evolution is false

    I realize this thread was started a few years back, but in the absence of a credible, testable, conclusive, scientific theory to take its place, evolution will continue to stand as the best explanation we have for how life has changed over time. No matter how much one may want to, one cannot simply "wish" a scientific theory into being false just because it may happen to conflict with the beliefs of others. Science, unlike religion, is not in the business of providing comfort and happiness to the masses (although some scientific discoveries have no doubt done this anyway), science is a systematic method of inquiry intended to help us better understand the "hows" of the workings of the physical universe. It does not pretend to answer the "whys," rather, it leaves those up to philosophers and theologians.

  12. #92
    Okimorix
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    Re: Evolution is false

    evolution is not based on evidence. People just think it is because it just seems like so.
    Some evolutionist says that whale evolved into lions, but where is the evidence that proves the existence of the medium state of such evolution?
    There are fish with their fins that can be used as legs but no fossil records were ever found such fins becoming into the legs of some amphibians.
    Fishes are fish amphibians are amphibians there are no medium states between those.

  13. #93
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    Re: Evolution is false

    Quote Originally Posted by Okimorix View Post
    evolution is not based on evidence. People just think it is because it just seems like so.
    Those who think it is not based on evidence are simply very ignorant of the facts. There are quite literally mountains of evidence in support of evolution. There is extensive fossil evidence, there is observable evolution in modern life forms, and there is cold, hard DNA evidence.

    Some evolutionist says that whale evolved into lions, but where is the evidence that proves the existence of the medium state of such evolution?
    You must be confusing Lions and Sea Lions which are very different creatures. Lions and whales have a common ancestral somewhere but it would look nothing like a Whale and nothing like a Lion.

    There are fish with their fins that can be used as legs but no fossil records were ever found such fins becoming into the legs of some amphibians. Fishes are fish amphibians are amphibians there are no medium states between those.
    That is false.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...tional_fossils
    Use this link to see an extended list of transitional creatures between fish and tetrabops
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...h_to_Tetrapods

    Do some serious reading and learn what others have learned.

    or...

    Stick your head in the sand, plug your ears and pretend reality is exactly how you want it to be.
    Feed me some debate pellets!

  14. #94
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    Re: Evolution is false

    Quote Originally Posted by Okimorix View Post
    evolution is not based on evidence. People just think it is because it just seems like so.
    Some evolutionist says that whale evolved into lions, but where is the evidence that proves the existence of the medium state of such evolution?
    There are fish with their fins that can be used as legs but no fossil records were ever found such fins becoming into the legs of some amphibians.
    Fishes are fish amphibians are amphibians there are no medium states between those.
    Greetings Okimorix,

    What you are talking about is a common argument made in an attempt to refute evolution concerning what is known as "transitional Fossils." The problem is, it isn't true. Scientists have found ALOT of transitional fossils.

    "Hundreds, if not thousands, of transitional fossils have been found."

    Fossils Reveal Truth about Darwin's Theory

    List of Transitional Fossils that have been found.

    I sincerely hope this helps! ;-)

  15. #95
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    Re: Evolution is false

    Quote Originally Posted by Meng Bomin View Post
    Evolution, a theory advanced by modern science, is widely accepted. However, it is also fatally flawed. Life, especially eukariotic life, has designs of irreduciable complexity, meaning that it could not have any purpose unless assembled in the way it is now. An example of this would be the flagella found in bacteria, sperm, and protists. These structures are like small hairs that propell a cell. The rotating motion and the complex bundling of microfilaments and microtubules is obviously of irreduciable complexity. Other strange occurances include the "crossing over" cof chromosomes during meiosis. This indicates design in it's brilliance. Chromosomes line up and swap parts, thus mixing maternal and paternal genes, creating a new chromosome with a different mix of genes. Thus traits can be mixed even more in a population. Natural Selection relies on random chance and could not be anywhere near as effective as God is.
    I certainly reside in the camp of ' Intelligent Design ' but even I have to agree that there are certainly some forms of evolution in the world. I have never seen anything that convinces me that we came from monkeys....but, that does not mean that evolution as a whole is non-existent .

  16. #96
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    Re: Evolution is false

    Quote Originally Posted by Someguy View Post
    I certainly reside in the camp of ' Intelligent Design ' but even I have to agree that there are certainly some forms of evolution in the world. I have never seen anything that convinces me that we came from monkeys....but, that does not mean that evolution as a whole is non-existent .
    Greetings Someguy,

    You are actually very astute. It is an incorrect assumption that evolution has ever stated humans evolved from monkeys. What the scientific theory of evolution does say is that the human species share a common ancestor with modern apes. Apes are not monkeys. Monkeys are more of a "distant cousin" to them. You may think seems like a minor distinction, but it really does make a difference. What evolution is saying is that at some point in the past, humans and apes split off and went in different directions.

  17. #97
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    Re: Evolution is false

    Quote Originally Posted by Someguy View Post
    I have never seen anything that convinces me that we came from monkeys....but, that does not mean that evolution as a whole is non-existent .
    BTW: No one says we evolved from present day monkeys. The current thought is that we have common ancestors, creatures that are no longer around in the world because we superseded them over time. Saying we came from monkeys is a gross over-simplification of the theory. In fact, recent discoveries indicate that our ancestors were in fact very different from most modern apes.

    http://news.nationalgeographic.com/n...s-ramidus.html

    The centerpiece of a treasure trove of new fossils, the skeletonóassigned to a species called Ardipithecus ramidusóbelonged to a small-brained, 110-pound (50-kilogram) female nicknamed "Ardi." (See pictures of Ardipithecus ramidus.)

    The fossil puts to rest the notion, popular since Darwin's time, that a chimpanzee-like missing linkóresembling something between humans and today's apesówould eventually be found at the root of the human family tree. Indeed, the new evidence suggests that the study of chimpanzee anatomy and behaviorólong used to infer the nature of the earliest human ancestorsóis largely irrelevant to understanding our beginnings.

    Ardi instead shows an unexpected mix of advanced characteristics and of primitive traits seen in much older apes that were unlike chimps or gorillas (interactive: Ardi's key features). As such, the skeleton offers a window on what the last common ancestor of humans and living apes might have been like.
    Feed me some debate pellets!

  18. #98
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    Re: Evolution is false

    Quote Originally Posted by Someguy View Post
    I certainly reside in the camp of ' Intelligent Design ' but even I have to agree that there are certainly some forms of evolution in the world. I have never seen anything that convinces me that we came from monkeys....but, that does not mean that evolution as a whole is non-existent .
    As others have said, that's a kind of a bad oversimplification. It's like saying a prince evolved from figs. It's just not that linear.

  19. #99
    adriellemartin
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    Re: Evolution is false

    I believe in evolution because it is based on a simple theory that is survival of the fittest and it is this theory which explains the nature as it is, why most animals have something distinct than others or why some animals are different from their own breed. For example the difference between Grizzly Bear and Polar Bear. The Grizzly Bear is bulky, brown colored cause of its environment, its color is to camouflage with environment and its size, teeth, food habits are as per the environment. On the other hand Polar Bear are white furred to camouflage with their environment, soak heat through their black skin beneath their white fur (which doesn't allow heat to release easily and they have different food diet. But both can cross breed and there have been cases of Groler (Half Polar/Half Grizzly). The reason both of differing physical structure is due to environment, mutation, food habit etc. Which valid clarifies the point of survival of the fittest.

 

 
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