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  1. #1
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    Is it possible to be an Agnostic and still believe in God?

    I like to know if it's possible to be both an Agnostic and a Catholic...because thats what I think i am.

  2. #2

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    Re: Is it possible to be an Agnostic and still believe in God?

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnAdams View Post
    I like to know if it's possible to be both an Agnostic and a Catholic...because thats what I think i am.
    Catholicism is a denomination of Christianity. Christianity is centered around the divinity of Jesus. In order to be a Catholic and thus a Christian, you must believe in Jesus, and thus cannot be agnostic.

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    Re: Is it possible to be an Agnostic and still believe in God?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Great Khan View Post
    Catholicism is a denomination of Christianity. Christianity is centered around the divinity of Jesus. In order to be a Catholic and thus a Christian, you must believe in Jesus, and thus cannot be agnostic.
    But is it not possible to beleive one thing, but not know whether you are right or wrong. Just because I believe in God and Jesus and everything, doesnt mean I dont think I might be wrong, in fact I probally am wrong. I want to know if its possible to have faith, but not know whether you are right or wrong.

    Every religion is probally wrong, but that doesnt mean you still cant beleive in that religion. Just most people will say they are right no matter what, I say that "i might be wrong".

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    Re: Is it possible to be an Agnostic and still believe in God?

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnAdams View Post
    But is it not possible to beleive one thing, but not know whether you are right or wrong. Just because I believe in God and Jesus and everything, doesnt mean I dont think I might be wrong, in fact I probally am wrong. I want to know if its possible to have faith, but not know whether you are right or wrong.

    Every religion is probally wrong, but that doesnt mean you still cant beleive in that religion. Just most people will say they are right no matter what, I say that "i might be wrong".
    A belief by definition is always subject to being wrong no matter how strongly you hold it. The difference is the strength of your conviction. Either you believe Jesus was the Son of God or you don't. If you believe he was, then you're Christian. If not, you're not a Christian. That this belief may be wrong in no way impacts your Christiannness or lack thereof; it's something that is inherent to all beliefs, religious or not.

  5. #5
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    Re: Is it possible to be an Agnostic and still believe in God?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Great Khan View Post
    A belief by definition is always subject to being wrong no matter how strongly you hold it. The difference is the strength of your conviction. Either you believe Jesus was the Son of God or you don't. If you believe he was, then you're Christian. If not, you're not a Christian. That this belief may be wrong in no way impacts your Christiannness or lack thereof; it's something that is inherent to all beliefs, religious or not.
    Im catholic whether or not I believe that Jesus is the son of god though. I took first communion, i went to confession, i got confirmed. So i am a Catholic, that doesnt mean that I beleive jesus is the son of God.

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    Re: Is it possible to be an Agnostic and still believe in God?

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnAdams View Post
    Im catholic whether or not I believe that Jesus is the son of god though. I took first communion, i went to confession, i got confirmed.
    ...all of which is meaningless without belief in Jesus. It's one of the reasons non-believers aren't allowed to eat the Eucharist.

    So i am a Catholic, that doesnt mean that I beleive jesus is the son of God.
    You may have been a Catholic at the time, but if you don't believe in Jesus and Christian theology, there's no need to confess, be confirmed, or take communion.

  7. #7
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    Re: Is it possible to be an Agnostic and still believe in God?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Great Khan View Post
    ...all of which is meaningless without belief in Jesus. It's one of the reasons non-believers aren't allowed to eat the Eucharist.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Great Khan View Post
    You may have been a Catholic at the time, but if you don't believe in Jesus and Christian theology, there's no need to confess, be confirmed, or take communion.
    So the answer to my question is no? right?

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    Re: Is it possible to be an Agnostic and still believe in God?

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnAdams View Post
    So the answer to my question is no? right?
    Right. You cannot be both an agnostic and a Catholic.

  9. #9
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    Re: Is it possible to be an Agnostic and still believe in God?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Great Khan View Post
    Right. You cannot be both an agnostic and a Catholic.
    Thats all I wanted to know. haha.

    Another question: Is it possible that you are wrong?

  10. #10

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    Re: Is it possible to be an Agnostic and still believe in God?

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnAdams View Post
    Thats all I wanted to know. haha.

    Another question: Is it possible that you are wrong?
    Not that I know of. Perhaps a Catholic could shed more light on the issue, but I'm pretty sure you can't be both an agnostic and a Catholic at the same time.

  11. #11
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    Re: Is it possible to be an Agnostic and still believe in God?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Great Khan View Post
    Not that I know of. Perhaps a Catholic could shed more light on the issue, but I'm pretty sure you can't be both an agnostic and a Catholic at the same time.
    It depends upon what definition of agnostic your operating under, for example (both from wordnetweb.princeton.edu):

    someone who is doubtful or noncommittal about something

    and

    a person who claims that they cannot have true knowledge about the existence of God (but does not deny that God might exist)

    If you operate under the first definition, then you might, just might, be able to call say, questioning your faith and beliefs, being both agnostic and Catholic. In this case you could call yourself agnostically Catholic I guess. However, this is not a state of belief in which you could stay permanently, as eventually you need to find an answer to your questions, resulting in either a) your faith is reaffirmed and you are no longer agnostic, just Catholic, or b) your answers lead you to reject Catholicism and you become solely agnostic. If you never find an answer to your questions, then I think you default to Agnostic as you do not truly believe in Catholicism.

    If you operate under the second definition then you're just agnostic, as you do not truly believe.


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  12. #12
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    Re: Is it possible to be an Agnostic and still believe in God?

    John you COULD believe in GOd and be Agnostic from where I sit.

    It works like this....you look around and obviously to you there is a God or at least a creator being that you would refer to as God. The issue you take is that all the willy nilly stuff in the bible about Jesus being the Son of God and the fact that it is impossible to reconcile OT God with NT God.

    So while you belief there COULD be a god or most likely is a God....you have started to lump the Christian version of God in with all the other Gods that there are.

    The new issue for you is that you don't have a book for YOUR god....hehehe

    My wife took your position for many years....though it eventually led, as it did for me, to atheism.

    You cannot disbelieve in Christ and be a Christian of any kind.

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  13. #13
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    Re: Is it possible to be an Agnostic and still believe in God?

    Well, what's the definition of agnosticism? What makes someone "agnostic"?

    I think that being agnostic means that you believe that the existence of God is unprovable. That is, it cannot be demonstrated that God exists.

    This belief is potentially compatible with Christian belief (although there are Christian belief systems that deny the truth of agnosticism). Agnosticism becomes incompatible with Christianity if one also believes that rational people should only accept claims that have sufficient proof.
    If I am capable of grasping God objectively, I do not believe, but precisely because I cannot do this I must believe. - Soren Kierkegaard
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  14. #14
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    Re: Is it possible to be an Agnostic and still believe in God?

    I am actually of the opinion that there should be more religious people like you -who would like to believe but are willing to admit they don't really know and therefore could indeed be wrong. Well said!

  15. #15
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    Re: Is it possible to be an Agnostic and still believe in God?

    Yes, you can be agnostic and Catholic. Heck you can be atheist and be Jewish.

    Lets ignore the atheist Jews for a moment....

    Agnostic means not knowing, you are uncertain if there is a God or not. I argued in another thread that Faith and Belief are not always exactly the same things, and that very prominent Christians such as Mother Teressa professed disbelief at times in God but never lost their Faith. Faith is most often used in the bible to profess adherence and devotion to God and its important because it shows a willingness to follow despite doubts you may have. Faith and the idea of worship go hand in hand. To worship is to give up to another power and that includes setting aside your doubts and thoughts of self.

    So long as you profess faith, and behave as one who worships god, and so long as this expression is genuine, then you can have intellectual doubts as to God's existence and still be fully obedient and worshipful of him.

    Ok so that is the Catholic Agnostic....

    The atheist Jew is more a question of identity and definition. Atheist Jews are Jews in terms of culture and heritage, but they no longer believe the superstition of the faith. They often practice the religion anyhow, but as a form of tradition and celebration rather than actual dogma. Essentially it becomes more like nationalism than religion and often those two systems operate in a very similar fashion.

    Its hard to argue they don't in most ways operate, look and behave as a Jew would, only their justification for doing so differs.

  16. #16
    mpayne1589
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    Re: Is it possible to be an Agnostic and still believe in God?

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnAdams View Post
    Thats all I wanted to know. haha.

    Another question: Is it possible that you are wrong?
    Heres the thing Johnadams

    I am a christian

    I i say that religion is wrong, i say this because of all the slants that go on in it, demonations, catholics compared to christians. Jehovahs witness. which all believe in God, but also give a wrong slant to it.

    I believe that you soley read the bible, believe in it and come to your own conclusion.

    You cannot be an agnostic - one who believes that there could be a God.

    simply you either believe or you dont believe.

  17. #17
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    Re: Is it possible to be an Agnostic and still believe in God?

    I agree that it is possible to be both Catholic and Agnostic. The correct term to use would be an Agnostic Theist. They identify themselves both as agnostics and as followers of particular religions, viewing agnosticism as a framework for thinking about the nature of belief and their relation to revealed truths. I think that asking a religious person this question will more offen than not provide to you a bais answer. Because within religions, people rely on faith to support their Version of "the truth". Therefore faith is an integral part to their belife system. Without faith in certain parts, they will argue you cannot be catholic. However the reality is that you do not have to be one or the other (Catholic/Agnostic). Hope this reply helps

  18. #18
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    Re: Is it possible to be an Agnostic and still believe in God?

    One of the basic statements of belief for the Catholic Church (and many Christian churches) is the Nicene Creed. Let's look at the creed for a moment:

    Quote Originally Posted by Nicene Creed
    We believe in one God,
    the Father, the Almighty,
    maker of heaven and earth,
    of all that is, seen and unseen.

    We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ,
    the only Son of God,
    eternally begotten of the Father,
    God from God, Light from Light,
    true God from true God,
    begotten, not made,
    of one Being with the Father.
    Through him all things were made.

    For us and for our salvation
    he came down from heaven:
    by the power of the Holy Spirit
    he was born of the Virgin Mary,
    and became man.

    For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate;
    he suffered, died, and was buried.
    On the third day he rose again
    in accordance with the Scriptures;
    he ascended into heaven
    and is seated at the right hand of the Father.

    He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead,
    and his kingdom will have no end.

    We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life,
    who proceeds from the Father and the Son.
    With the Father and the Son he is worshiped and glorified.
    He has spoken through the Prophets.
    We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church.
    We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.
    We look for the resurrection of the dead,
    and the life of the world to come.
    If you can not honestly profess belief in that creed you can not call yourself a Roman Catholic.

    I would wager good money that everyone has, at some point or another, questions concerning their faith, but if you feel you need to apply the title "Agnostic" as a modifier to "Roman Catholic" as in, "I'm not sure there's a God," then you have already denied the first tenent of the Nicene Creed--the belief in God, and can not call yourself Roman Catholic.
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  19. #19
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    Re: Is it possible to be an Agnostic and still believe in God?

    Quote Originally Posted by phrique View Post
    One of the basic statements of belief for the Catholic Church (and many Christian churches) is the Nicene Creed. Let's look at the creed for a moment:



    If you can not honestly profess belief in that creed you can not call yourself a Roman Catholic.

    I would wager good money that everyone has, at some point or another, questions concerning their faith, but if you feel you need to apply the title "Agnostic" as a modifier to "Roman Catholic" as in, "I'm not sure there's a God," then you have already denied the first tenent of the Nicene Creed--the belief in God, and can not call yourself Roman Catholic.
    Ah....that's what a CHURCH believes. Methodist's say the same creed.

    But if we left it at Christian.....and not some denominational standard....could it then be that one could say Christian/Agnostic? I don't think so either because the term Christian implies a believe in Jesus also.

    But if we leave it at a belief in God....could one still be agnostic. Sure. Why? There are many God's. It might be evident to a person that God is real, which version no one knows. God would be a very generic term in this case and not have a lot behind it other than perhaps Creator of hte Universe. You wouldn't really know any of that for a fact as there is nothign to prescribe to. Thus you could be somewhat Agnostic.

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  20. #20
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    Re: Is it possible to be an Agnostic and still believe in God?

    Quote Originally Posted by phrique View Post
    One of the basic statements of belief for the Catholic Church (and many Christian churches) is the Nicene Creed. Let's look at the creed for a moment:

    (Nicene Creed Quote)...

    If you can not honestly profess belief in that creed you can not call yourself a Roman Catholic.
    To Belive in the Nicene Creed in the first instance, is to belive god sent his child down to earth, knowing full well that he would die a torturous death.

    "For us and for our salvation
    he came down from heaven"

    This may seem an odd thing for a loving father to do to his own son, but what strikes me is that he does this so "jesus" can die for humanities sins/salvation. For GODS forgiveness.

    It leads to the question, why did god not just forgive humanity of his own accord?

    And also if jesus specifically "For us and for our salvation", "came down from heaven", this implies if im not mistaken that god knew what was going to happen. Is this not also a valid basis to question free will?

    An example would be a man(creator) building a toy car(human), and giving it a programme (conciousness). Now if the man(creator) then gave the car a random programme(free-will), he would not with any great accuracy, predict the directions the toy car(human) would then travel.

    Say the man(creator) was then to try to place a block(jesus) in the path of the toy car(human). Without a fixed programme(Fixed Conciousness) this task, would be near impossible.
    ---------------------------------------

    In response to the suggestion that the Nicene Creed has to be adhiered to to call yourself a Catholic, i utterly reject that notion. Many catholics pick and choose which parts of the bible they follow.

    Which is a brilliant modern moral choice in my oppinion. However take this passage from the bible, it reads as follows...

    "Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel." (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)

    This is one of many morally questionable statements form the bible. And yet it is in the bible.

    Not many moderate catholic in todays world would want to kill someone rejecting their faith. Does this meen that they are not Catholic because they do not follow this particular passage from the bible?

    And if not, who choose's which passages are the correct one's to follow?

    Please, if anyone can expand my horizons on this subject matter, i would appreciate a response.

    Again, i hope this post helps.

 

 
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