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  1. #1
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    Do you raise your child?

    This thought occurred to me while discussing "Strong willed children".
    To what extent are we really "raising" our children, specifically strong willed children? What extent are they "choosing" to be raised to be a certain way? It seems to me that in the case of a strong willed child; one must have their consent on what sort of person to be raised into. Evidenced by the fact that they can take stances and not be moved no matter what the parents do.


    For those who are not familiar, children can be seen as two distinct different types. A complaint child, which is characterized by a strong desire to please, and the "strong willed" child, which is characterized by the desire to do what they want regardless of the consequences. That latter is likely to tell them-self, "it is worth the price of getting punished to do what I want".


    It seems the very existence of the strong willed child, means that the complaint child is also "choosing" to be raised that way.


    Here are some general observations that seem to support this POV.
    Children who are raised to do things "because mom and dad said so". Tend to leave home, and reject all that falls under that category. So it is the case that they were not "taught" not to do those things, they were simply restricted from doing them while in the house with mom and Dad.


    *Note* Here "Raising" means molding or controlling the child's personality.


    DISCUSS!
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  2. #2
    Lonny
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    Re: Do you raise your child?

    Yes I think you do raise your child regardless of their innate personality this is barring physical and mental issues outside of a parents control.

    I believe that in the whole nature verses nature conflict it must be a bit of both. Yes of course some children will be much more challenging than others from the off, but the consistency by which you punish and reward will effect their nature.

    When a Childs brain is growing it shapes what tendencies their brain will have in later life so if a child is introduced to music at a young age they will be far more capable in later life than a child that is not. In the same way a child who dose not receive consistent rewards and punishments will be more incline to inconsistencies in later life (and in childhood).

    I believe this is largely down to the so dubbed ‘use it or loose it’ phase that a Childs brain goes through in growth spurts. At these times the nature of the future brain is largely determined, and so the influences of the environment at these times is key to many of the tendencies the adult brain will have. I believe that these tendencies will largely impact on the adult personality.

    This is just my opinion I do not actually have children but would very much like to one day so I am very interested in parenting debates. I absolutely defer to the judgment of people with real experience of parenting but I though I would put my thought out there.

  3. #3
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    Re: Do you raise your child?

    Interesting points, and post Lonny.

    Let me focus on Music
    Quote Originally Posted by LONNY
    When a Childs brain is growing it shapes what tendencies their brain will have in later life so if a child is introduced to music at a young age they will be far more capable in later life than a child that is not.
    The tendency I would focus on is the actual "LIKE" of music. If we really could "raise" our children, then we could dictate what he would "like". For example, if you wanted him to play piano, then you could reason that you could introduce it early enough as to make him like the piano.
    I think however a better explanation is that you expose him/her to many instruments, and you discover which one they like. You could no doubted force them to learn piano, and that knowledge may never leave them. That does not guarantee that they will ever play it again once they are out from under the your parental authority. In fact, if they were not already predisposed to liking the piano, your efforts could actually ignite a hatred for the piano.
    If we get back to the discovery model, then you recognize that you have zero input as to what they will like or dislike in regards to music. Instead you realize that you are given the task of helping them unlock that which is in them, and helping them to grow the specific gifts that they have.
    This basically destroys the general(modern) Idea of "raising" your child IMO. The line may be grey in some areas, but so far it seems to me that we do not "raise" our children, we simply help them grow.

    Quote Originally Posted by LONNY
    This is just my opinion I do not actually have children but would very much like to one day so I am very interested in parenting debates. I absolutely defer to the judgment of people with real experience of parenting but I though I would put my thought out there.
    I have 4 kids, but I wouldn't presume to "Know" anything on the subject, this was just a brain teaser I have been considering. In all probability it is probably some where in the middle of "nature/nurture"... but I'm leaning towards a heavy dose of nature
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  4. #4
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    Re: Do you raise your child?

    Quote Originally Posted by MindTrap028 View Post
    This thought occurred to me while discussing "Strong willed children".
    To what extent are we really "raising" our children, specifically strong willed children? What extent are they "choosing" to be raised to be a certain way? It seems to me that in the case of a strong willed child; one must have their consent on what sort of person to be raised into. Evidenced by the fact that they can take stances and not be moved no matter what the parents do.


    For those who are not familiar, children can be seen as two distinct different types. A complaint child, which is characterized by a strong desire to please, and the "strong willed" child, which is characterized by the desire to do what they want regardless of the consequences. That latter is likely to tell them-self, "it is worth the price of getting punished to do what I want".
    I've never seen this breakdown before - do you have any materials on this? I have three kids and they're all very much strong willed in that they know what they like and there's no real way to change it. This is true with the food they eat, the books they like, the toys the want and the video games they play.

    The way we raise our kids is give them choices whenever possible so that they can guide their own ways around the world. We put constraints on those choices and that's how we put limits on what we want them to learn.

    So in terms of 'stances' the only choice for them is either to learn or not to learn. And even then it's really a Hobson's Choice because we are constantly talking about what happens if you do not learn and do well in school.

    Quote Originally Posted by MindTrap028 View Post
    *Note* Here "Raising" means molding or controlling the child's personality.
    DISCUSS!
    Wow, I thought raising traditionally meant providing a nurturing environment in which the child can learn about the world before letting them loose; or better still, learning how to learn about the world.

    I'm sure parents have a choice in the kind of personality their children grow up with but even then that's probably by accident than deliberate nurturing in one direction or another. Still, now that you raise the point, there are certainly negative aspects that need to be removed such as anti-social behavior and such like.

  5. #5
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    Re: Do you raise your child?

    Quote Originally Posted by SharmaK View Post
    I've never seen this breakdown before - do you have any materials on this? I have three kids and they're all very much strong willed in that they know what they like and there's no real way to change it. This is true with the food they eat, the books they like, the toys the want and the video games they play.

    The way we raise our kids is give them choices whenever possible so that they can guide their own ways around the world. We put constraints on those choices and that's how we put limits on what we want them to learn.

    So in terms of 'stances' the only choice for them is either to learn or not to learn. And even then it's really a Hobson's Choice because we are constantly talking about what happens if you do not learn and do well in school.
    Well, this specific questions were not raised by anyone I know.. But we have this book and like it. http://www.amazon.com/Strong-Willed-.../dp/0842359249



    Quote Originally Posted by SHARMAK
    Wow, I thought raising traditionally meant providing a nurturing environment in which the child can learn about the world before letting them loose; or better still, learning how to learn about the world.

    I'm sure parents have a choice in the kind of personality their children grow up with but even then that's probably by accident than deliberate nurturing in one direction or another. Still, now that you raise the point, there are certainly negative aspects that need to be removed such as anti-social behavior and such like.
    Well, my definition of being raised "traditionally" is not an official def I just used it to highlight what I feel is an underlying assumption concerning what we are really doing.
    To serve man.

  6. #6
    a1g2a3
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    Re: Do you raise your child?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lonny View Post
    Yes I think you do raise your child regardless of their innate personality this is barring physical and mental issues outside of a parents control.
    First off, I love your avatar picture it is extremely cute! Now for the actual discussion part. As a child of thirteen, I do believe that my parents raise me to a certain extent. Most studies done on the matter will tell you that children are likely to agree with their parents' view points. However, my mom and dad have tried to steer me in a certain direction as far as education, career choice, behavior, ect. go and I tend to form my own opinion instead. My little sister on the other hand tends to follow the paths they put her on, so I do think that personality has something to do with if a parent is truly raising their child. I also think exposure to the "outside world" has a lot to do with it. For instance, a child who spends a lot of time away from home and/or its parents is more likely to form opinions that differ from its parents'. As to a child who stays in its parents' company most of the time would be less likely to develop its own opinions.

  7. #7
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    Re: Do you raise your child?

    I raised my 3 kids, for 10 years by my self.

    I cant say, I actually raised them though, to be this or that. Their Mom and I were were very diverse, back grounds , culture, religion. So they were probably raised to make up their own minds about certain issues. This shows today actually, as all 3 have different beliefs, and with an election here going on, I am amused seeing that all love Politics, and all 3 are voting for a different party.

    But one of my kids, a Daughter, was extremely strong willed. She still is and embraces a life style most parents would not accept. She is in a punk rock band out of England, is quite extreme in her liberalism, is against many of my beliefs,,, yet curiously I get along with her, and her Mom an ex hippy type in her day, does not.

    So, I cant really use my own kids as an example.

    I can with my up bringing though, which was very Conservative/ fundementalist, and our parents / Uncles and Aunts all extremley strict.

    Looking back today, I find it intersting, how half of us ended up rejecting those values, but about half are quite happy to follow them now, all these years later.

    I cant help but feel, both the compliant child and the " strong willed one", chooses what they will be. Maybe its more a csae, of the compliant child, just finding comfort, in what their parennts are? Maybe, thsy choose that every much, as the strong willed one does in rejecting it?

  8. #8
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    Re: Do you raise your child?

    This poem sums up parenting the way I view it quite nicely:

    On Children

    Your children are not your children.
    They are the sons and daughters of Life's longing for itself.
    They come through you but not from you,
    And though they are with you yet they belong not to you.

    You may give them your love but not your thoughts,
    For they have their own thoughts.
    You may house their bodies but not their souls,
    For their souls dwell in the house of tomorrow,
    which you cannot visit, not even in your dreams.
    You may strive to be like them,
    but seek not to make them like you.
    For life goes not backward nor tarries with yesterday.

    You are the bows from which your children
    as living arrows are sent forth.
    The archer sees the mark upon the path of the infinite,
    and He bends you with His might
    that His arrows may go swift and far.
    Let your bending in the archer's hand be for gladness;
    For even as He loves the arrow that flies,
    so He loves also the bow that is stable.

    ~Kahlil Gibran
    "We are the paradox to unite all duality.." ~Unknown

  9. #9
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    Re: Do you raise your child?

    I may be missing something so excuse me if I'm misrepresenting the debate here. It seems as though everyone is asking or answering the question "Can you make your childrens' decision for them?" Or "Can you teach them to make decisions that you like?" The answer here is an unequivocal no. No matter how you are raised or how sheltered or free you are you will always have your own free will that will guide you.

    Even in the best scenarios your kids will make decisions that you like or agree with only sometimes. Other times they will do their own thing and they will either be happy or learn to live with the consequences. The best any parent can hope for is to teach their children to think through the consequences of their decisions and hope for the best. The poem Shakti posted spells it out perfectly well I think.

  10. #10
    mind boggler
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    Re: Do you raise your child?

    i have to disagree with Lagarhead, you can control your children's actions, thoughts and decisions. people especially children are widely influenced by those around them and even more influenced by those with power ( the parent ). now if the question is can you personally as of who u are control them? idk because i dont know you or your ability to manipulate people (manipulation is not a bad thing it can be used for very good things its a common misconception that manipulation is evil) word play, physical movement and actions all have a huge part to play in raising your child to what you want, you could make them like foods that they now hate its just a matter how time and the "skill" needed to do so. the whole idea of free will is complete and utter bullcrap in my personal opinion. theres no such thing when there is so much that influences your choices, the smallest thing that effects you can make a huge difference in who you are and what you'll become.

  11. #11
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    Re: Do you raise your child?

    Quote Originally Posted by mind boggler View Post
    i have to disagree with Lagarhead, you can control your children's actions, thoughts and decisions.
    Then why is it the case when some pre-teen guns down a classmate that the parents aren't put on trial for murder? Why is it when kids steal things from stores, the kids are charged, and not the parents? If the parents are controlling the children, they are ultimately responsible for their actions... the structure of society as we know it today doesn't really support that, practically, as well it shouldn't... because holding one man accountable for the sins of another is hardly practical.

    Would you be willing to suggest that parents of homocidal children should be held responsible for their children's actions?
    "And that, my lord, is how we know the Earth to be banana-shaped." ~ Monty Python


  12. #12
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    Re: Do you raise your child?

    I have two children, and they are the total opposite of each other. My son is strong willed and will rather try and do his own thing than doing what you tell him to do. My daughter on the other hand is the one who likes to please everybody around her, even without being asked to do so.

    Both of them are having their own identidy and I usually try to raise them in a way that brings out the best characteristic traits. When in duscussions about what is wrong and what is right, I will usually ask them questions which will make them think about it at first. I don't go and tell them they can't do this or that without providing a good reason to them. They usually understand my motivation for saying what I say and then oblidge by my rules more easily.

    My son questions me straight forward many times and some people might think it is disrespectful of him. I on the other hand can appreciate it since I know he is curious about why I give him a specific instruction.

    I don't think you can really change the way a child is. In other words, I don't think I can fully change my daughter to be more like her brother and neither do I want to. But I don't think I raise her to accept my word as the only true way things can be done and she has the ability to actually tell me when she thinks I am wrong or treating her unfairly.

    The most important is, children should be raised to know that they have a choice in life and that they can't be forced to believe things are either black or white, but that there is in fact shades of grey in some very important life matters out there.
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  13. #13
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    Re: Do you raise your child?

    I was always taught that grammatically children are not "raised" they are "reared".

    I think that simple grammar rule says a lot about child rearing.
    "I've noticed that everyone who is for abortion has already been born" -- Ronald Reagan

    How can a moral wrong be a Civil Right?

 

 

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