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  1. #81
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    Re: Attended my first Same Sex wedding

    Quote Originally Posted by MindTrap028 View Post
    In America we vote on stuff right? If our representatives that we vote for allow gays to use the term "Marriage" then we are "accepting" the use of that term as a valid use of the word.

    I'm not saying simply myself doesn't have to accept it personally. I'm saying as a society we do not have to accept it. IF we do not accept the use of the word socially then they will not be covered under the law through that word.
    But there are certain fundamentals we don't vote on. Equality under the law is one of those fundamentals. Its the same reason we can't "vote" to re-restrict marriage to same-race unions.

    I'm curious about that. When did "marriage" begin to be used as a term, and did it really predate Christianity?
    Considering marriage existed in Judaism, and greece, and pre-christian rome, and egypt . . . yes. Of course, none of them used the english word "marriage", but I doubt that's your point, since neither did the early christians.

    The concept of "a union between a man and a woman" will always exist, and the term to describe it will change form place to place. If homosexuals are allowed to use the term "marriage" then men and women will find a new term.
    Odd . . . I don't see anyone rushing to do that. Let me know if and when that changes.

    ---------- Post added at 07:50 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:46 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by mican333 View Post
    These lawsuits are about the legal rights of marriage much more about the word "marriage". I thought we weren't debating the law. But if we are, then these couples are absolutely right to do what they are doing. They are being denied the legal rights of married couples which is a blatant violation of their rights and they should sue to get their marital rights (regardless of what the union is called) recognized.

    If you are saying these lawsuits are primarily about the name and not the rights, then you will need to support this.
    Actually, the California suit was purely about the name (California recognized civil unions as having the same legal rights as marriage).

  2. #82
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    Re: Attended my first Same Sex wedding

    Quote Originally Posted by bluepinaple View Post
    Yep i agree. But wether they find people "libral" enough to do it or not doesen't change the fact that it is not recognised by christians ( only a very small minority ).
    Why does it matter if it is recognized by other christians or not? The marriage is not between the couple and other christians. It is between the couple and God..

    ---------- Post added at 07:22 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:01 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by bluepinaple View Post
    Well i mean England and america as far as i know are supposed to be christian countries, with christian priminiters and a chirtian queen.
    The Church of England, the mother church of the Communion, currently maintains (according to the statement Issues in Human Sexuality) that same-sex partnerships are acceptable for laypersons but gay clergy are expected to be abstinent.[2] The Lambeth Conference of 1998 called homosexuality "incompatible with Scripture" but this remains a purely advisory guideline as there are no communion-wide legislative bodies in the Anglican Church.[3] On the other hand, in 2003 the Episcopal Church, which is the American body (province) of the Anglican Communion, approved Gene Robinson to the bishopric of the diocese of New Hampshire. Bishop Gene Robinson is the first openly gay (non-celibate) clergy to be ordained to the episcopate.[4]


    They then abide by the bible, The bible says that it is wrong for a man to sleep with another man the way he does with a women. it is one of the deadly sins. That is clear.
    Do you abide by every single thing the bible says?
    Have you ever purchased any luxury goods?
    Have you ever lust over any one?
    Have you ever over-indulged at a dinner?
    Ever hoarded materials or objects?
    Never had anger or rage?
    Ever had pride?


    So the minority of people who call themselves christians but pick and chose pieces of the bible to set thier own personal agendas are not accepted or recognised by the wider church.
    So let me make sure I get this straight.. A christian must abide by every single verse in the bible, no exceptions?

    The problems come when gay rights activists come along and describe christians sticking to what the bible says as some sort of hatefull crime similar to racism! which it is not! we accept the people, not the act, ( which can be changed and is a lifestyle choice ).
    Would you be willing to have a 1 vs 1 debate with me on to topic of homosexuality being a choice and can be changed?

    Homosexual unions could be religious, just like i could wear a wig and say im a women. doesen't change what the bible says.

    I personally believe that they shoul'dent be legalised.
    and christians do things that go against the bible as well.. But of course they pick and choose..

    ---------- Post added at 07:30 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:22 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by bluepinaple View Post
    Children need both a mother and a father. Gay couples cannot provide that.
    Neither can single parents..

    Homosexual marriages start to break down the familly setting and the natural way things should be, with a mother father and children.
    what about single parents? What about children in foster care with no parents?

    HOmosexuals cannot between them produce a child naturally.
    Some heterosexuals couples canNOT produce a child naturally? So what's your point?

    The rate of homosexuals staying together is low.
    Support or retract

    The rate of homosexuals cheating on each other is high.
    Support or retract

    Homosexual acts ( anal sex ) is damaging.
    Support or retract..
    btw, homosexuals are not the only ones who perform anal sex..

    For homosexuals who want to get married, tough, i don't agree with it.
    For Christians who disagree with same sex marriage.. Tough, I don't agree with you. So again whats your point?
    Show me the government that does not infringe upon anyone's rights, and I will no longer call myself an anarchist.~Jacob Halbrooks
    "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.~Benjamin Franklin
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  3. #83
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    Re: Attended my first Same Sex wedding

    Kivam - Fair enough. I just find it funny how he thinks his beliefs should be made into law

  4. #84
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    Re: Attended my first Same Sex wedding

    Yeah i have done some of the things you mentioned on that list...whats your point? seems pritty errelevant to the subject at hand. what i have and haven't done personally doesent really affect christian views on homosexuality being wrong.

    It matters because if you don't follow what is said in the bible, then the bible is useless!!! what is the point in even reading the bible if your not going to as a chritsian to follow what it says???

    Yep some things are taken literally, and some parts of the bible are not, but im willing to bet that you havent done a bible study, studied any theology of the bible or researched what is to be enterpreted and what is an actual commandment.

    what the bible says about homosexuality is a commandment, its as clear as can be.

    Rules are rules, what i have done is errelevant, we all know no ones perfect, but we all know that choices are made wether wrong or bad.


    Christians are not perfect and there are some wrong representations of chirtians same as in any religion.

    MOst christians disagree with christianity, god made amdam and eve not adam and steve.

    The bible is clear, you accpet it or you don't. Yes it is between a couple and god, between a man and a women, that is made clear in the bible, please do not twist what the bible clearly says into what you want it to say.

    If the creator of the world says its wrong, then surely he knows best.

    Yes i would love to have a debate as to wether homosexuality is a choice, you may start the debate and contact me.

  5. #85
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    Re: Attended my first Same Sex wedding

    Originally by bluepineapple
    It matters because if you don't follow what is said in the bible, then the bible is useless!!!
    I respectfully say that the bible is useless to anyone who doesn't believe in it. This is not a debate on how Christianity views Homosexuality. I'm sure that everybody here can believe that Christians look down upon Homosexuality. The point at large here is that not everybody is Christian, and therefore those views should not be pushed upon everybody. This nation was created with the pretense of everybody being equal, with no beliefs forced upon them. Everyone was free to talk about what they want, believe what they want, and follow their own dreams. You are basically saying that we should oppress free will because the "Christian way is the only right way".

  6. #86
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    Re: Attended my first Same Sex wedding

    No, i am saying that homosexuality is immoral and wrong. that many none christians and chrstians as well as many other religions believe this. i believe that they should not have the right to marry and i am strongly against it.

    as much as it is someones free will to fight to legalize homosexual marriages. i also have free will to voice my opinions on the subject irregardless of religion.

    You cant' have your cake and eat it.








    Quote Originally Posted by AGleo View Post
    I respectfully say that the bible is useless to anyone who doesn't believe in it. This is not a debate on how Christianity views Homosexuality. I'm sure that everybody here can believe that Christians look down upon Homosexuality. The point at large here is that not everybody is Christian, and therefore those views should not be pushed upon everybody. This nation was created with the pretense of everybody being equal, with no beliefs forced upon them. Everyone was free to talk about what they want, believe what they want, and follow their own dreams. You are basically saying that we should oppress free will because the "Christian way is the only right way".

  7. #87
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    Re: Attended my first Same Sex wedding

    Quote Originally Posted by bluepinaple View Post
    what the bible says about homosexuality is a commandment, its as clear as can be.
    But that only applies to the church that interprets the bible that way. If it convinces you, fine. But that doesn't mean that everyone else, including Christians who use a different interpretation than you do, have to go along with it.

    Quote Originally Posted by bluepinaple View Post
    Yes i would love to have a debate as to wether homosexuality is a choice, you may start the debate and contact me.
    Well, homosexuals are not only attracted to the same gender, they are not attracted to the opposite gender. So if it's possible for you to choose to become a homosexual, you have to be able to lose your attraction to women (for homosexual men are not attracted to women). So answer honestly, can you actually choose to no longer be attracted to women?

    If not, then you are not capable of choosing to be homosexual.

  8. #88
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    Re: Attended my first Same Sex wedding

    Quote Originally Posted by bluepinaple View Post
    No, i am saying that homosexuality is immoral and wrong. that many none christians and chrstians as well as many other religions believe this. i believe that they should not have the right to marry and i am strongly against it.

    as much as it is someones free will to fight to legalize homosexual marriages. i also have free will to voice my opinions on the subject irregardless of religion.

    You cant' have your cake and eat it.
    I also think homosexual acts should not be engaged in (I'm a religious jew). But that's a religious perspective that has absolutely no business in how the state regulates interpersonal relationships.

    Bottom line - whether you are a christian or not should have no impact on whether you think they should have a right to marry, unless your assertion is that people's legal rights should be determined by christianity (and if so, I suggest you read the constitution, then decide if America is really the country for you).

    As long as you accept that "Christianity teaches that X is wrong" is not a basis for the government prohibiting X, your Christian beliefs about homosexuality are irrelevant. Whether or not homosexuals have the legal right to marry, you think that they should not engage in sexual acts. Those are not at all the same thing, and even if marriage did equal sex, all your belief would require of you would be to argue that homosexuals should not marry.

    In exactly the same way as your belief system requires you to believe that people should not be hindus, or muslims, or jews. I assume you agree that people should nevertheless have the legal right to be hindus or muslims or jews?

    If so, how is that in any way different from Gay Marriage?

  9. #89
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    Re: Attended my first Same Sex wedding

    Quote Originally Posted by bluepinaple View Post
    No, i am saying that homosexuality is immoral and wrong. that many none christians and chrstians as well as many other religions believe this. i believe that they should not have the right to marry and i am strongly against it.

    as much as it is someones free will to fight to legalize homosexual marriages. i also have free will to voice my opinions on the subject irregardless of religion.

    You cant' have your cake and eat it.
    Nobody's denying your right to express what you believe, but what you're doing is saying that what you believe should affect other peoples' right to do what they want to do.
    "More guns equal fewer deaths...by this logic, the Middle East would be better off if every nation in the region had nuclear weapons."
    Timothy Egan, NY Times

  10. #90
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    Re: Attended my first Same Sex wedding

    Quote Originally Posted by bluepinaple View Post
    Yeah i have done some of the things you mentioned on that list...whats your point? seems pritty errelevant to the subject at hand. what i have and haven't done personally doesent really affect christian views on homosexuality being wrong.
    Actually it's not irrelevant.. You stated that homosexuality is one of the deadly sins therefor makes it 'wrong'. Point being, you do things that are just as 'wrong' as homosexuality. That list there are all part of the deadly sins.. And no it does not affect christian views because christians pick and choose. Homosexuality is wrong but the rest of the deadly sins are ok..

    It matters because if you don't follow what is said in the bible, then the bible is useless!!! what is the point in even reading the bible if your not going to as a chritsian to follow what it says???
    What's the point in you reading the bible? You do not follow the bible according to what you stated. You have done some of the deadly sins as well.. Or do those deadly sins not matter?

    Yep some things are taken literally, and some parts of the bible are not, but im willing to bet that you havent done a bible study, studied any theology of the bible or researched what is to be enterpreted and what is an actual commandment.
    Who decides what should be taking literally and what shouldn't?

    what the bible says about homosexuality is a commandment, its as clear as can be.
    As well as the sins you commit..
    Rules are rules, what i have done is errelevant, we all know no ones perfect, but we all know that choices are made wether wrong or bad.
    So whats your point here about homosexuality? Homosexuality is MOST cases is not a choice..


    Christians are not perfect and there are some wrong representations of chirtians same as in any religion.
    Then why is homosexuality so much more worse then other deadly sins?

    MOst christians disagree with christianity, god made amdam and eve not adam and steve.
    This is not even worthy of a rebuttal..

    The bible is clear, you accpet it or you don't. Yes it is between a couple and god, between a man and a women, that is made clear in the bible, please do not twist what the bible clearly says into what you want it to say.
    Oh trust me, I am not twisting anything the bible says into something I want it to say.. The bible does not mean jack shyt to me.. But the point was.. It is not between the couples and other christians.. So who cares what the other christians think?
    If the creator of the world says its wrong, then surely he knows best.
    So is wearing a cloth made of 2 fabrics wrong? Is it wrong to eat red meat?

    Yes i would love to have a debate as to wether homosexuality is a choice, you may start the debate and contact me.
    Sweet.. I will try to get it started later today.. It's 1am here now..
    Show me the government that does not infringe upon anyone's rights, and I will no longer call myself an anarchist.~Jacob Halbrooks
    "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.~Benjamin Franklin
    "Go big or Go home"~ LoLo Bean

  11. #91
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    Re: Attended my first Same Sex wedding

    Quote Originally Posted by bluepinaple View Post
    The value of marriage has little meaning with out God. Infact God is the essential spice within the union of a man and a women.


    People take what they want out of the bible, something pure and sacred. then turn it into what suits them.

    Marriage was created by God. just as a man and a women where created to be together- have children and be over all fullfilled.

    Take God out of marriage and what is left? A promise made to one another before others. That's all. and if thats what they want to do, ok. But at no point should marriage ( between a man and a women infront of God ) ever be seen as anything similar to a civil ceremony.
    Marriage in the Scriptures, is simply a covenant between two people, and the ceromony, was simply a way of making it publicly known.

    You will read precise details, on how a Priest is to dress for an annointing of oil for example, but you will never find a marraige ceromony described.

    The only difference between a Civil ceromony, a common law couple who forego a ceromony but agree to be exclusive, and so called " Holy Matrimony? Is a Church wedding ironiclly, has a member of a clergy that "blesses" the union,,,,,, for God.

    Why is that ironic?

    Simply because, many of the very ones who claim a common law or civil ceromony, is not Holy, are also quick to attack Catholics for example, of being idolotrous in their belief that mortal men, Priests, can bless in Gods name.

    But, they think, this is done by their clergy when it comes to so called " Holy Matrimony".

    What makes a union, "holy"?

    Love does, not their vows.

    As for Homosexuality being aginst the Bible? Not necessarily.

    The 2 New Testament verses mostly used to claim that Homosexuality is wrong, is 1 Corinthians 6 and 9, and 1 Timothy 1 and verse 10.

    The KJV, used Homosexual, for the greek word "arsenokoitai". Yet, no erotic literature at the time, used "arsenokoita" to describe male/ male pairings.

    Why did the KJV Tranlators use Homosexual , yet the Latin Vulgate and others did not?

    Then there is the famous Leviticus 18:22

    "Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind:
    it is abomination." [Leviticus 18:22, King James Version]

    But this English Translation is quite different, from the original Hebrew, which refferred to a married man with wife, laying with another man, as was common in Temple Prostitutions. Not male and male, but married male with a wife, laying with another male.

    King David and Johnathon, very likely were gay lovers, and married. Talking with Saul, refers to him considering David to be a Son in law, in all probability.

    1 Samual 18 verse 1 :
    New International Version (1984)
    After David had finished talking with Saul, Jonathan became one in spirit with David, and he loved him as himself

    1 Samuel 20:17 And Jonathan had David reaffirm his oath out of love for him, because he loved him as he loved himself.

    2 Samuel 1:26 I grieve for you, Jonathan my brother; you were very dear to me. Your love for me was wonderful, more wonderful than that of women.

    So, it is not cut and dried, that it is a sin. Most sins , like stealing, lying, etc, are mentioned many, many times. Yet, curiously, Homosexuality, being a so called " deadly sin", is hardly mentioned at all.

    As for Gay marriage, affecting hetrosexaul marriage?
    .
    How can that be in any way?

    I think, Gay marriage, which is legal here in Canada, only represents less than .5 % of all marriages. Keep in mind, many of those were Americans coming here as well, so the number is skewered some what. How can .5 % affect 99. 5 %?

    It has zero effect on marriage.

    Besides which, Heterosexual marriage is such a failed concept for so many, by the failings of us Heteroosexuals, I think its ludicrous, to place any blame on Marriage failure, on less than .5% who happen to be Gay and marry.

    In a world where so many fail in marriage and love, I wish all luck no matter what their gender make up is.

 

 
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