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  1. #1
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    Being Unhappy in Heaven

    There is a man who is a Christian and a women who is not. They meet each other when they are 18 and fall madly in love. They get married and spend the next 70 years together raising a family and being as happy together as two people can be. When they turn 90 they get into a car accident and both die. They get to heaven and God says to the man you may come in because you had faith, but your wife did not so she will be sent to hell. The man and wife say their goodbyes, one entering heaven while the other going to hell. The man is miserable because he is separated from his wife. Also being fully aware that his wife is being tortured everyday for the rest of time makes him even more sad. He goes to God and says I thought that I was supposed to be happy in heaven but I cannot be happy being separated from my wife, especially knowing that she is in tremendous pain all the time.

    My question is how does God make this man happy? There are two possibilities that I see. One, God allows the wife into heaven, she was a good person and she was only sent to hell because she didn't have faith. However God can't do this, the wife is impure and therefore cannot be in heaven with God. The second possibility is that God could take away the memories the man has of his wife. However since they were married for so long most of the mans memories contain his wife. So if God took away these memories the man would no longer be himself.
    abc

  2. #2
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    Re: Being Unhappy in Heaven

    God would convince that man that he should be happy that his wife is in hell, as all bad people should be. Either that, or lay on a shed load of willing babes to take the pain away (Not sure if that's just for Muslims come to think of it).

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    Re: Being Unhappy in Heaven

    So if this man was you do you think God would be successful in convincing you that your wife is a bad person and that you shouldn't love her? Also I don't think that the idea that you spent your entire life with a bad person would make you feel better.
    abc

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    Re: Being Unhappy in Heaven

    Quote Originally Posted by MyXenocide View Post
    So if this man was you do you think God would be successful in convincing you that your wife is a bad person and that you shouldn't love her? Also I don't think that the idea that you spent your entire life with a bad person would make you feel better.
    No chance of me having a wife who is religious, it would do my 'kin head in . But yeah, as its hypothetical, I take your point. No, I would tell god he is damn well stupid. Let him put that in his pipe and smoke it!

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    Re: Being Unhappy in Heaven

    This is an example of one of the complications that arises from the assumption by some (arguably a very small percentage) of Christians that assert that salvation is absolutely impossible after death. If you accept the Mormon notion of the Spirit World or the Catholic or Eastern Orthodox views of purgatory in any form, this becomes a non-issue: if indeed she is a good person and loves her husband, she will make the sacrifices necessary to be saved with him once she is convinced of the truth.
    " 'God is not dead, nor doth he sleep...' "

    My mormon.org profile (if you'd like to know a little more about where I'm coming from):
    http://www.mormon.org/me/1KM4-eng/Alex

  6. #6
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    Re: Being Unhappy in Heaven

    I see your point but this raises a question: "Can you love the devil and serve the lord?"

    If the women was sent to hell she obviously didn't obey god's law, hence, a sinner. By loving her despite her sins the men was showing appreciation for the women's sins, could he still be admitted in heaven?

    It could be argued that the men was showing forgiveness, an often praised characteristic in most faiths but... If god himself (In a way the "king" of forgiveness and other similar qualities) couldn't forgive her shouldn't it be that the men's opinions were, in a way, misled?

    In a way, the men shouldn't be in heaven at all...

  7. #7
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    Re: Being Unhappy in Heaven

    Quote Originally Posted by max0005 View Post
    I see your point but this raises a question: "Can you love the devil and serve the lord?"

    If the women was sent to hell she obviously didn't obey god's law, hence, a sinner. By loving her despite her sins the men was showing appreciation for the women's sins, could he still be admitted in heaven?

    It could be argued that the men was showing forgiveness, an often praised characteristic in most faiths but... If god himself (In a way the "king" of forgiveness and other similar qualities) couldn't forgive her shouldn't it be that the men's opinions were, in a way, misled?

    In a way, the men shouldn't be in heaven at all...
    No, the bible says to love thy neighbor. Just because he loves his wife doesn't mean he loves his wife's sins....Example: The man gets into a fight with his wife, he doesn't like her views on the matter they are fighting about, so he doesn't condone or like them. But he still loves her.
    Anyways about the OP, I am not a Christian but if I was I would believe what Yasasiku suggested.
    Some people also believe that Jesus died for everyone's sins and we are all going to heaven
    Udabindu yathāpi pokkhare
    Padume vāri yathā na lippati,
    Evaṃ muni no palippati
    Yadidaṃ diṭṭhasutaṃ mutesu vā.

  8. #8
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    Re: Being Unhappy in Heaven

    Quote Originally Posted by yasashiku View Post
    This is an example of one of the complications that arises from the assumption by some (arguably a very small percentage) of Christians that assert that salvation is absolutely impossible after death. If you accept the Mormon notion of the Spirit World or the Catholic or Eastern Orthodox views of purgatory in any form, this becomes a non-issue: if indeed she is a good person and loves her husband, she will make the sacrifices necessary to be saved with him once she is convinced of the truth.
    If I understood this right, I can start believing in God when I'm dead and am standing before him and this would be enough to let me into heaven. So then having faith in this life doesn't matter in regard to getting into heaven or not, only being a good person matters. I'm sure that everyone who doesn't believe in God, myself included, would believe once we are standing in front of him. This is a good solution to my question. Thanks.
    abc

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    Re: Being Unhappy in Heaven

    Quote Originally Posted by MyXenocide View Post
    If I understood this right, I can start believing in God when I'm dead and am standing before him and this would be enough to let me into heaven. So then having faith in this life doesn't matter in regard to getting into heaven or not, only being a good person matters. I'm sure that everyone who doesn't believe in God, myself included, would believe once we are standing in front of him. This is a good solution to my question. Thanks.
    It should be noted that this is not the traditionally held view of Christianity. Obviously, it presents a problem of faith (rendering it completely and utterly unnecessary...which is counter to Christ's teachings).

    Such a view, means that anyone can do whatever they want in this life, that this life is 100% irrelevant and meaningless since all can decide if they want to live an eternal life next to God and forever be in eternal joy and bliss....or they can decide to forever experience complete misery.

    While it may be a convenient belief, one that doesn't require any sacrifice, work or effort...it isn't one that I'd subscribe to with confidence.
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  10. #10
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    Re: Being Unhappy in Heaven

    Well if you think that that belief is not in accord with Christianity then how do you think God would solve the problem of the mans unhappiness Apokalupsis?
    abc

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    Re: Being Unhappy in Heaven

    Quote Originally Posted by MyXenocide View Post
    Well if you think that that belief is not in accord with Christianity then how do you think God would solve the problem of the mans unhappiness Apokalupsis?
    I'm not entirely sure. I don't think that anyone really knows as it isn't explained in the Bible how this will happen (those in Heaven having absolutely no regret, no pain, no sorrow, no remorse while those in Hell having the opposite). We just know that it will be the case. I may have a few ideas...but I think I want to flesh them out a little more before providing them.

    One thing to keep in mind re: yasa's theory though:
    Matthew 7:13-14
    13 “Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.
    Now...according to Yasa's claim...EVERYONE can be saved...even after they have lived a wicked life and refused God while they were living. When they die, they have no punishment, and they will have a choice on whether to experience joy or experience eternal suffering. Now, I don't know about you...but I don't know of a single person who would choose eternal suffering once it was made known absolutely to them, w/o any question or shadow of a doubt. Practically EVERYONE is going to be in Heaven according to Yasa. Yet...God (through the Bible) says otherwise.

    And more specifically to this point (from Dr. Norman Geisler and Tom Howe):
    The Bible is clear that there is no second chance after death (cf. Heb. 9:27). The Book of Revelation records the Great White Throne Judgment in which those who are not found in the book of life are sent to the lake of fire (Rev. 20:11–15). Luke informs us that, once a person dies, he goes either to heaven (Abraham’s bosom) or to hell and that there is a great gulf fixed “so that those who want to pass” from one to the other cannot (Luke 16:26). The whole urgency of responding to God in this life before we die gives further support to the fact that there is no hope beyond the grave (cf. John 3:36; 5:24).
    Last edited by Apokalupsis; November 13th, 2010 at 09:01 PM.
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  12. #12
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    Re: Being Unhappy in Heaven

    Quote Originally Posted by Apokalupsis View Post
    I'm not entirely sure. I don't think that anyone really knows as it isn't explained in the Bible how this will happen (those in Heaven having absolutely no regret, no pain, no sorrow, no remorse while those in Hell having the opposite). We just know that it will be the case.
    No you don't. You believe it will be the case despite the fact that you have no reasonable expectation that it will be the case based on what you DO know, and what you DO know is that your experiences (and memories) are the very things on which things like happiness/unhappiness are predicated. You believe this will be resolved by somehow overcoming this obstacle. That's the very definition of 'blind faith', which is fine, but personally, I wouldn't try to make it out to be more than it is.

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    Re: Being Unhappy in Heaven

    Quote Originally Posted by MyXenocide View Post
    There is a man who is a Christian and a women who is not. They meet each other when they are 18 and fall madly in love. They get married and spend the next 70 years together raising a family and being as happy together as two people can be. When they turn 90 they get into a car accident and both die. They get to heaven and God says to the man you may come in because you had faith, but your wife did not so she will be sent to hell. The man and wife say their goodbyes, one entering heaven while the other going to hell. The man is miserable because he is separated from his wife. Also being fully aware that his wife is being tortured everyday for the rest of time makes him even more sad. He goes to God and says I thought that I was supposed to be happy in heaven but I cannot be happy being separated from my wife, especially knowing that she is in tremendous pain all the time.

    My question is how does God make this man happy? There are two possibilities that I see. One, God allows the wife into heaven, she was a good person and she was only sent to hell because she didn't have faith. However God can't do this, the wife is impure and therefore cannot be in heaven with God. The second possibility is that God could take away the memories the man has of his wife. However since they were married for so long most of the mans memories contain his wife. So if God took away these memories the man would no longer be himself.
    Simplest answer: God tries to make the man maximally happy, and allows him to go to hell to be with his wife if he so desires.

    What makes this scenario so opaque for you, or so I would suggest, is you're not giving due weight to certain elements it contains; in fact, aren't even mentioning those elements! For example, you're assuming it's possible for this man to be unhappy in heaven because of memories he has of his life on earth. What if he has no memories of his life on earth?

    And this isn't just about forgetting his wife suffering in hell, either. Let's, for just a second, notice that he will be maximally exposed to the goodness and holiness of his Creator in heaven. What would that do to a "good" person if they could remember their lives on earth? I would suggest to you it would torture them. They would see themselves in contrast to this glorious Being, and feel like scum. Every little selfish act would be an ache in their heart as they recalled what this magnificent Being had done to prove his love for them.

    So, isn't it more likely we will have no memories of our lives on earth in heaven than it is that we will? Couldn't wiping away someone's memories of their sufferings here on earth just be what distinguishes heaven from hell in conjunction with a maximal perception of God? And if that's true, then you have your answer: the issue of the man's unhappiness over missing his wife, and of his knowledge of her suffering in hell would simply never come up in heaven.

    The reason I started off with the answer I did, however, had a different basis. Say it's true the man and wife can remember their lives on earth once in heaven and hell. If heaven isn't good enough for the man, then what is? Obviously, your scenario includes the idea being with his wife is, for him, better than being with God. Where have we heard a scenario like this before? Let me think...

    Now the serpent was more cunning than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said to the woman, "Has God indeed said, 'You shall not eat of every tree of the garden'?" 2 And the woman said to the serpent, "We may eat the fruit of the trees of the garden; 3 "but of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God has said, 'You shall not eat it, nor shall you touch it, lest you die.' " 4 Then the serpent said to the woman, "You will not surely die. 5 "For God knows that in the day you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil." 6 So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree desirable to make one wise, she took of its fruit and ate. She also gave to her husband with her, and he ate. 7 Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together and made themselves coverings. 8 And they heard the sound of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God among the trees of the garden. Gen. 3:1-8
    When Eve came to Adam with the temptation to join her in disobeying God, he chose being with his wife whom he loved over being "with" (i.e.; spiritually speaking obedience to the omnipresent, spiritual Being that is God is being "with" him) the God whom he loved. And God allowed the man his choice, and all of the unintended consequences that went with it. I see no reason to think God would do otherwise in your OP's scenario. If the man couldn't be happy being with God, and could only be happy being with his wife, I believe God would grant him his sinful wish, and allow him to join his wife in hell. After all, he supposedly really loves her, right? The torment should be as nothing to him then so long as he's with her.

    Then again...

    If that's true, and real love requited expiates torments, then maybe we do hold onto our memories of life on earth, and maybe the love shared between the man and God does produce a great deal of torment in the man irrespective of any he experiences being separatef from his wife and knowing she, too, is in torment, and maybe the torment this man feels from every souce (her suffering, his sinfulness that is only highlighted by proximity to perfect sinlessness, all of it!) is simply overwhelmed and extinguished in the unconditional Love that God is; sort of like the heat of a lit mach being quenched in the Pacific.

    I would also like to bring up the fact there are a variety of mental states possible for human beings that relate to being in pain. First of all, there are all sorts of "degrees" of pain, and these degrees often have very little to do with what's causing the pain. People just have a variety of abilities to feel pain; some much more from a kick in the shins, some hardly at all. Second, anyone who's ever taken Vicodine, knows it doesn't actually relieve pain, but instead causes you not to care as much that you're in pain. You still feel the pain (maybe not quite as intense as before, but it's definitely still there!); it's just not something that you really care about any more, so it stops making you miserable and unhappy.

    There's a million ways to go here in analyzing your scenario, and most of them are positive (in the sense that the man could be happy in heaven while his wife of 70 years is in torment in hell, and in all this God is as maximally good as the circumstances will allow), which makes me wonder why skeptics always seem to find the most egregiously negative interpretations of their hypotheticals their respective imagines will bear. For if there is one thing in this world that is predictable, it's this: given two ways to understand what God does, the skeptic will invariably pick the one that casts God in the worst possible light.

    I would like to make an observation here, so that everyone can comment on it. I find those who accuse God over the existence of heaven and hell to be hypocrites of the first order if they don't also argue for anarchy here on earth. How many atheist anarchists do we have here in ODN?

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    Re: Being Unhappy in Heaven

    If I spent my entire life murdering people and then one second before my death I accepted God and got into heaven. The only way that I could not feel regret, sorrow and remorse for what I have done is for God to take away those memories or convince me that murder is a good thing. If he takes away my memories he might as well kill my soul since I will no longer be myself. If God convinces me that murder is good then he is either lying or the devil in disguise.

    ---------- Post added at 07:44 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:28 PM ----------

    I didn't say the man loves his wife more then God. It is possible to love more then one thing at a time. He may even love God more then his wife, but he still loves his wife very much. Why would anyone choose to go to hell? Even if your not happy in heaven, you'll be even less happy in hell. Also without your memories you are not you. So then you didn't get to heaven your soul did, and your soul is a completely different person then you.

    Quote Originally Posted by cstamford View Post
    I would like to make an observation here, so that everyone can comment on it. I find those who accuse God over the existence of heaven and hell to be hypocrites of the first order if they don't also argue for anarchy here on earth. How many atheist anarchists do we have here in ODN?
    If the human race was evolved enough to live in anarchy it would be a wonderful thing. People to often put anarchy together with immorality. If every person on earth was moral then there would be no need for laws or government, we would all just live in peace and help each other out.

    So YES GO ANARCHY... just not yet...
    abc

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    Re: Being Unhappy in Heaven

    Quote Originally Posted by Dionysus View Post
    No you don't. You believe it will be the case despite the fact that you have no reasonable expectation that it will be the case based on what you DO know, and what you DO know is that your experiences (and memories) are the very things on which things like happiness/unhappiness are predicated. You believe this will be resolved by somehow overcoming this obstacle. That's the very definition of 'blind faith', which is fine, but personally, I wouldn't try to make it out to be more than it is.
    1) I do not have blind faith nor do I subscribe to the theory in any way, shape or form.

    2) Yes, we do know. We do know that according to the Bible, there will be no pain or suffering...at all. That's the context in which this discussion is in Dio. Do we know that God or Heaven even exists? No...but many of us believe that it is more plausible than Him not existing. Yet this latter proposition has absolutely nothing to do with the op's argument/challenge/question. It's outside the universe of discourse.

    ---------- Post added at 05:51 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:47 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by cstamford View Post
    What makes this scenario so opaque for you, or so I would suggest, is you're not giving due weight to certain elements it contains; in fact, aren't even mentioning those elements! For example, you're assuming it's possible for this man to be unhappy in heaven because of memories he has of his life on earth. What if he has no memories of his life on earth?

    And this isn't just about forgetting his wife suffering in hell, either.

    So, isn't it more likely we will have no memories of our lives on earth in heaven than it is that we will? Couldn't wiping away someone's memories of their sufferings here on earth just be what distinguishes heaven from hell in conjunction with a maximal perception of God?
    I do not believe this is the case.

    Lk. 16:27-28, Mt. 8:11; Lk. 23:43 give examples of how we will remember our relationships and recognize others even in the afterlife, regardless of where that person is.
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  16. #16
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    Re: Being Unhappy in Heaven

    Quote Originally Posted by Apokalupsis View Post
    1) I do not have blind faith nor do I subscribe to the theory in any way, shape or form.
    Sure you do. You ABSOLUTELY do. You just DESCRIBED how you do. You do IN THE CONTEXT OF THIS DISCUSSION. You're speaking from a position of faith, not from a position of knowledge. Moreover, you're making claims that you "know" (when you MEAN that you BELIEVE) in spite of what you DO know. That's blind faith.

    Quote Originally Posted by Apokalupsis View Post
    2) Yes, we do know.
    No, you DON'T know. You have FAITH. FAITH is not KNOWING in any meaningful sense of the word.

    Quote Originally Posted by Apokalupsis View Post
    We do know that according to the Bible, there will be no pain or suffering...at all.
    No, you BELIEVE that because the Bible says it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Apokalupsis View Post
    That's the context in which this discussion is in Dio. Do we know that God or Heaven even exists? No... but many of us believe that it is more plausible than Him not existing.
    There you go. You DON'T know.

    Quote Originally Posted by Apokalupsis View Post
    Yet this latter proposition has absolutely nothing to do with the op's argument/challenge/question. It's outside the universe of discourse.
    Right. An atheist asking how you solve the problem in a way that he can relate is outside the universe of discourse. Gotcha.

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    Re: Being Unhappy in Heaven

    Quote Originally Posted by cstamford View Post
    Simplest answer: God tries to make the man maximally happy, and allows him to go to hell to be with his wife if he so desires.

    What makes this scenario so opaque for you, or so I would suggest, is you're not giving due weight to certain elements it contains; in fact, aren't even mentioning those elements! For example, you're assuming it's possible for this man to be unhappy in heaven because of memories he has of his life on earth. What if he has no memories of his life on earth?

    And this isn't just about forgetting his wife suffering in hell, either. Let's, for just a second, notice that he will be maximally exposed to the goodness and holiness of his Creator in heaven. What would that do to a "good" person if they could remember their lives on earth? I would suggest to you it would torture them. They would see themselves in contrast to this glorious Being, and feel like scum. Every little selfish act would be an ache in their heart as they recalled what this magnificent Being had done to prove his love for them.

    So, isn't it more likely we will have no memories of our lives on earth in heaven than it is that we will? Couldn't wiping away someone's memories of their sufferings here on earth just be what distinguishes heaven from hell in conjunction with a maximal perception of God? And if that's true, then you have your answer: the issue of the man's unhappiness over missing his wife, and of his knowledge of her suffering in hell would simply never come up in heaven.

    The reason I started off with the answer I did, however, had a different basis. Say it's true the man and wife can remember their lives on earth once in heaven and hell. If heaven isn't good enough for the man, then what is? Obviously, your scenario includes the idea being with his wife is, for him, better than being with God. Where have we heard a scenario like this before? Let me think...



    When Eve came to Adam with the temptation to join her in disobeying God, he chose being with his wife whom he loved over being "with" (i.e.; spiritually speaking obedience to the omnipresent, spiritual Being that is God is being "with" him) the God whom he loved. And God allowed the man his choice, and all of the unintended consequences that went with it. I see no reason to think God would do otherwise in your OP's scenario. If the man couldn't be happy being with God, and could only be happy being with his wife, I believe God would grant him his sinful wish, and allow him to join his wife in hell. After all, he supposedly really loves her, right? The torment should be as nothing to him then so long as he's with her.

    Then again...

    If that's true, and real love requited expiates torments, then maybe we do hold onto our memories of life on earth, and maybe the love shared between the man and God does produce a great deal of torment in the man irrespective of any he experiences being separatef from his wife and knowing she, too, is in torment, and maybe the torment this man feels from every souce (her suffering, his sinfulness that is only highlighted by proximity to perfect sinlessness, all of it!) is simply overwhelmed and extinguished in the unconditional Love that God is; sort of like the heat of a lit mach being quenched in the Pacific.

    I would also like to bring up the fact there are a variety of mental states possible for human beings that relate to being in pain. First of all, there are all sorts of "degrees" of pain, and these degrees often have very little to do with what's causing the pain. People just have a variety of abilities to feel pain; some much more from a kick in the shins, some hardly at all. Second, anyone who's ever taken Vicodine, knows it doesn't actually relieve pain, but instead causes you not to care as much that you're in pain. You still feel the pain (maybe not quite as intense as before, but it's definitely still there!); it's just not something that you really care about any more, so it stops making you miserable and unhappy.

    There's a million ways to go here in analyzing your scenario, and most of them are positive (in the sense that the man could be happy in heaven while his wife of 70 years is in torment in hell, and in all this God is as maximally good as the circumstances will allow), which makes me wonder why skeptics always seem to find the most egregiously negative interpretations of their hypotheticals their respective imagines will bear. For if there is one thing in this world that is predictable, it's this: given two ways to understand what God does, the skeptic will invariably pick the one that casts God in the worst possible light.

    I would like to make an observation here, so that everyone can comment on it. I find those who accuse God over the existence of heaven and hell to be hypocrites of the first order if they don't also argue for anarchy here on earth. How many atheist anarchists do we have here in ODN?
    Well ignorance is bliss I suppose.
    I also personally know many Christians you believe when you are in heaven you "know" everything.

    Last edited by Soren; November 14th, 2010 at 07:11 PM.
    Udabindu yathāpi pokkhare
    Padume vāri yathā na lippati,
    Evaṃ muni no palippati
    Yadidaṃ diṭṭhasutaṃ mutesu vā.

  18. #18
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    Re: Being Unhappy in Heaven

    "So perfect happiness requires perfect ignorance..."
    "Exactly."

    LOL I love it Soren
    abc

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    Re: Being Unhappy in Heaven

    Quote Originally Posted by Dionysus View Post
    Sure you do. You ABSOLUTELY do. You just DESCRIBED how you do. You do IN THE CONTEXT OF THIS DISCUSSION.
    No, you are confusing blind faith with reasonable faith. You are also confusing the context of this discussion.

    You're speaking from a position of faith, not from a position of knowledge.
    Not at all. I know for a fact what the Bible claims and does not claim on this matter.

    Moreover, you're making claims that you "know" (when you MEAN that you BELIEVE) in spite of what you DO know. That's blind faith.
    Not at all. I know for a fact what the Bible claims and does not claim on this matter.

    No, you DON'T know. You have FAITH. FAITH is not KNOWING in any meaningful sense of the word.
    1) There is a difference between blind faith and reasonable faith.

    2) I know for a fact what the Bible claims and does not claim on this matter.

    No, you BELIEVE that because the Bible says it.
    ...well yes. The op has the inferred premise that God exists, the God of the Bible exists, Heaven exists, people in Heaven aren't suffering, people in Hell are. That's the context of the discussion Dio.

    You are completely ignoring the context of the argument. It's like saying "Unicorns have 1 horn." Then you objecting and saying "No they don't! Unicorns don't even exist!" You've just left the universe of discourse.

    Not a single person is claiming that God, Heaven, afterlife exists in this thread Dio. I don't think you are reading the argumentation here accurately.

    There you go. You DON'T know.

    Right. An atheist asking how you solve the problem in a way that he can relate is outside the universe of discourse. Gotcha.
    See above.

    You can't ask on one hand "If God exists, Heaven exists, there's no suffering in Heaven yet there is in Hell...how can those in Heaven NOT suffer given they will have loved ones in Hell?"...then get a response...then say "No! God doesn't exist!" You are confusing the actual argumentation here.

    ---------- Post added at 07:53 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:51 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Soren View Post
    Well ignorance is bliss I suppose.
    I also personally know many Christians you believe when you are in heaven you "know" everything.
    Why is ignorance bliss? And the fact that you know Christians who say you know everything when you are in Heaven refutes your statement otherwise.

    Quote Originally Posted by MyXenocide View Post
    "So perfect happiness requires perfect ignorance..."
    "Exactly."

    LOL I love it Soren
    It's unfortunate that atheists are ignorant of that which they object to. It's a whopping strawman.
    -=]Apokalupsis[=-
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    I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. - Thomas Jefferson




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    Re: Being Unhappy in Heaven

    Quote Originally Posted by Apokalupsis View Post
    Why is ignorance bliss?
    Uhmm...did you read what cstamford wrote? You'll see why I responded with that.
    And the fact that you know Christians who say you know everything when you are in Heaven refutes your statement otherwise.
    Either...
    In heaven you do know everything....then your happiness might be affected by the knowledge that somebody close to you was burning in hell....
    Or...
    You don't know that the person close to you was burning in hell because god wiped that memory from you...
    In which case....
    You are blissful in heaven because you don't have the knowledge of something (ignorance)...
    So....
    In that context ignorance would be bliss.
    Udabindu yathāpi pokkhare
    Padume vāri yathā na lippati,
    Evaṃ muni no palippati
    Yadidaṃ diṭṭhasutaṃ mutesu vā.

 

 
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