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  1. #1
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    Angry Hey I got a conspiracy for you...

    Maybe this belongs in another forum board?

    Someone tell me why Japanese-Americans were interred into "Labor Camps" while Italians and German-Americans didn't fall into the same fate.

    My Theory? Racism. Pure Racism. Then again I may be biased. I'm Asian myself; but you got to wonder considering the acknowledgment we get. I went to this pre-inauguration ceremony for Bush and the Military. While Whites, Blacks, and Hispanics get acknowledged, there was no mention of Asians being sailors, soldiers or airmen. If your going to mention the races for sentimental reaons, better acknowledge them all, otherwise don't do it. I would have prefered none at all considering the stuff at that ceremony. Finally no body mentions that the Japanese 442nd in world war II was the most decorated military unit in US history.

    Then again I might be biased! So i'm probably lying. You can never trust those devious Asians. Quiet, slit-eyed bastards! :D

  2. #2
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    Re: Hey I got a conspiracy for you...

    Germans and Italians were interned as well.

    Read the book by Michelle Malkin....In Defense of Internment: The Case for 'Racial Profiling' in World War II and the War on Terror.

  3. #3
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    Re: Hey I got a conspiracy for you...

    Japanese are easier to single out superficially.
    Fortunately, the darkest of darkness is not as terrible as we fear.
    Unfortunately, the lightest of light, all things good, are not so wonderful as we hope for them to be.
    What, then, is left, but various shades of grey neutrality? Where are the heroes and villains? All I see are people.

  4. #4
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    Re: Hey I got a conspiracy for you...

    While Whites, Blacks, and Hispanics get acknowledged, there was no mention of Asians being sailors, soldiers or airmen.
    In what way were they being acknowledged?
    I typically cite original research papers and reviews that are available only to a personal or institutional subscriptional. If you wish a PDF copy of the papers I cite, send me a request.

  5. #5
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    Re: Hey I got a conspiracy for you...

    Last edited by Snoop; January 19th, 2005 at 07:04 PM. Reason: addit. links
    While laughing at others stupidity, you may want to contemplate your own comedic talents. (link)
    Disclaimer: This information is being provided for informational, educational, and entertainment purposes only.

  6. #6
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    Re: Hey I got a conspiracy for you...

    To Chadn: Anyways they had this pre-inauguration ceremony in DC for people in uniform. They go into this montage about the military fighting for us daily, and on and on. At the end, they mention a small thanks to all the african-american, hispanics, and whites who fought for this country under one flag. They just overlooked asians, I can't see how they might have done that this time in age. On the surface not a big deal, but it does show a bit about the country. That's my opinion.

    About that book, I got to ask; was this made after 9'11? By the title it looks like he's trying to make a case for internment for the so-called War on Terror. Using superficial (maybe?) evidence of internments of Germans and Italians during WWII as a case for racial profiling in war on terror.

    I should not say anything about that though. I haven't read it or heard of it. Wont hurt to take a look.

  7. #7
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    Re: Hey I got a conspiracy for you...

    They go into this montage about the military fighting for us daily, and on and on. At the end, they mention a small thanks to all the african-american, hispanics, and whites who fought for this country under one flag. They just overlooked asians, I can't see how they might have done that this time in age. On the surface not a big deal, but it does show a bit about the country. That's my opinion.
    Its because you guys dont b**** about it. Asian Americans complain the least of all the racial groups, little wonder if you guys get overlooked now and again. You gotta learn that in this nation the person that whines the most gets the most attention.
    Last edited by chadn737; January 19th, 2005 at 07:41 PM.
    I typically cite original research papers and reviews that are available only to a personal or institutional subscriptional. If you wish a PDF copy of the papers I cite, send me a request.

  8. #8
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    Re: Hey I got a conspiracy for you...

    The Japanese were interned because noone in America felt any kinship towards them. A large number of Americans are of German descent, and Germans are practically indistinguishable from other Europeans. Same with Italians. Many people viewed the common German or Italian soldier as someone simply doing their duty while their government betrayed them.

    There was no such view towards the Japanese. They were an extremely foriegn race, and were also the only nation to actually attack the United States. People thought all Japanese were indoctrinated to hate America (to an extent, that was true), and they were viewed as a completely different, lesser race. Plus they were easier to spot.

    So yes, it was racism.

  9. #9
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    Re: Hey I got a conspiracy for you...

    As some German Americans were of second or even fourth generation, there could have been a very real legal problem in a mass incarceration. Besides, numbers of German Americans held key positions in American society, science and the military.

    You can bet your sweet butt that many of the newer immigrants were closely monitored though. Especially after the sabotage conspiracy was busted.
    "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." - Anais Nin.
    Emitte lucem et veritatem - Send out light and truth.
    'Fere libenter homines id quod volunt credunt' - Julius Caesar (rough translation, 'Men will think what they want to think')
    Kill my boss? Do I dare live out the American dream? - Homer Simpson.

  10. #10
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    Re: Hey I got a conspiracy for you...

    As to the pre-inaugeration thing, I would guess that as Asians have more or less white skin, they would fall under that category. They are barely a minority, and there are comparatively few incedents of racism against them compared to other racial groups, namely blacks and hispanics.
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  11. #11
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    Re: Hey I got a conspiracy for you...

    Maybe someone here should read Michelle Malkin's book on this topic. But that's if you want to hear the defense of internment presented in a coherent fashion. No need to read it if all you want to do is set up straw men.
    If I am capable of grasping God objectively, I do not believe, but precisely because I cannot do this I must believe. - Soren Kierkegaard
    **** you, I won't do what you tell me

    HOLY CRAP MY BLOG IS AWESOME

  12. #12
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    Re: Hey I got a conspiracy for you...

    The view at the time was that Japanese were crazy. Remember this is before the era of political correctness. The fear was that the Japanese in America would be loyal to their emperor and carry out all sorts of espionage, terrorism, and sabotage... which is the odd thing about America. Because we're such a melting pot, if we go to war with a country, chances are there are tens of thousands of citizens / descendents of that country living on our soil. At the time, this was a relatively new concept.

    Were the camps justified? Probably not... but put yourself in the seat of the administration of the time. Japan just bombed Pearl Harbor. There are tens of thousands of Japanese immigrants living on your soil. What would you have done?

  13. #13
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    Re: Hey I got a conspiracy for you...

    There was a very interesting programme on the BBC about the Japanese internment, and also about the Jewish (mainly German Jewish recent immigrants) internment on the Isle of Man (in the Irish Sea). The Brits did realise their mistake after a year or so and released them after the initial paranoia had died down. The farce is that many had much needed skills, and that some became involved in classified war work while still officially in internment. -And Jews of German extraction were employed at the main code breaking and cypher establishment at Bletchley Park. Max Newman (a Jew and a brilliant mathematician) was central to the understanding of the Lorenz codes and the building of Collosus.
    http://www.picotech.com/applications/collosus.html I found this site today on a Google search under 'Bletchley Park' but it does NOT seem to want to link through. Darn technology.
    Last edited by FruitandNut; January 20th, 2005 at 06:30 AM.
    "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." - Anais Nin.
    Emitte lucem et veritatem - Send out light and truth.
    'Fere libenter homines id quod volunt credunt' - Julius Caesar (rough translation, 'Men will think what they want to think')
    Kill my boss? Do I dare live out the American dream? - Homer Simpson.

  14. #14
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    Re: Hey I got a conspiracy for you...

    "Japan just bombed Pearl Harbor"

    Yeah, must have been a shock, huh?

    P.
    "The intelligence and facts are being fixed around the policy."
    head of MI6

    "The Emory University study proves beyond a doubt that politicians and their acolytes - are lying morons."

    "We must make clear to the Germans that the wrong for which their fallen leaders are on trial is not that they lost the war, but that they started it."
    Justice Jackson Nov. 21, 1945, Nuremberg

  15. #15
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    Re: Hey I got a conspiracy for you...

    Quote Originally Posted by Pibs
    "Japan just bombed Pearl Harbor"

    Yeah, must have been a shock, huh?

    P.
    I find your remark callous, crude, insensative and a poor attempt at sarcasm - unless you are trying to justify the bombing?
    While laughing at others stupidity, you may want to contemplate your own comedic talents. (link)
    Disclaimer: This information is being provided for informational, educational, and entertainment purposes only.

  16. #16
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    Re: Hey I got a conspiracy for you...

    I find your indignation ignorant of history, the deliberate provocation of Japan into the war, the fact the Americans knew it was coming and the fact that the US gummermint actually *gasp* lied.

    As revealed by their own documents and the Freedom of Information Act. Do try and keep up?


    P.
    "The intelligence and facts are being fixed around the policy."
    head of MI6

    "The Emory University study proves beyond a doubt that politicians and their acolytes - are lying morons."

    "We must make clear to the Germans that the wrong for which their fallen leaders are on trial is not that they lost the war, but that they started it."
    Justice Jackson Nov. 21, 1945, Nuremberg

  17. #17
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    Re: Hey I got a conspiracy for you...

    Here ya go, you can even buy a book on it

    http://www.pearlharbor41.com/reviews.htm

    Praise for Robert Stinnett's Day Of Deceit

    "There is plenty of news value to Stinnett's book. Why? Because he has amassed evidence that yields... a far more precise knowledge of who knew what and when than any previous author has presented."
    -Steve Weinberg, The San Francisco Chronicle

    It is difficult, after reading this copiously documented book, no to wonder about previously unchallenged assumptions about Pearl Harbor."
    -Richard Bernstein, The New York Times Book Review

    "A fascinating and readable book that is exceptionally well presented."
    -Bruce Bartlett, The Wall Street Journal


    "Stinnett has made a sickening discovery through the Freedom of Information Act...FDR must have known...Day Of Deceit is perhaps the most revelatory document of our time."
    -Tom Roeser, Chicago Sun-Times

    "Thanks to Stinnett's thorough research, those who will debate this topic in the future will have a fuller picture of the real story behind the 'Day of Infamy.' "
    -Ed Halloran, Rocky Mountain News

    "Backed by seventeen years of research and using more than two hundred thousand interviews and newly declassified documents, Stinnett makes devastating revelations....[He is] a model researcher....December 7, 1941 is indeed 'a date that will live in infamy.' Thanks to Stinnett, we now know where the infamy really lay. A sobering blockbuster, an absorbing read, and a model of revisionist history, Day Of Deceit does much to unmask the awful truth about Pearl Harbor. All Americans interested in our entry into World War II- or concerned with our government's trustworthiness-should read it."
    -John Attarian, The Detroit News

    "Stinnett makes points that disturb conventional thinking about the Pearl harbor attack."
    -Lynwood Abraham, Houston Chronicle

    "Explosive, revealing, and disturbing, Day of Deceit gets to the heart of the debate about America's leadership as the nation was was swept into the war. A triumph of historical scholarship and a valuable contribution to the record of World War II."
    -Michael D. Hull, World War II Magazine

    "Robert Stinnett has come as close as any mortal will to proving not only that the president had a pretty shrewd idea the Japanese planned to attack, but that he did everything in his power, short of declaring war, to make sure they would. After almost sixty years and the destruction of intelligence documents- a single ' smoking gun ' will never be found. But the case put together by Stinnett during thirteen years of research, painstaking use of the Freedom of Information Act, and interviews with participants, is more than persuasive."
    -Rupert Cornwell, The London Independent

    "An explosive well-written look at the events leading up to the Japanese raid on Pearl Harbor, including FDR's provocation of the attack, by a WWII veteran and longtime journalist....Stinnett has left no stone unturned in this account, which should rewrite the historical record of WWII."
    -Kirkus Reviews

    "Stinnett provides overwhelming evidence that FDR and his top advisors knew that the Japanese warships were heading towards Hawaii. The heart of this argument is even more inflammatory: Stinnett argues that FDR, who desired to sway public opinion in support of U.S. entry into WWII, instigated a policy intended to provoke a Japanese attack....If Stinnett is right, FDR has a lot to answer for- namely, the lives of those Americans who perished at Pearl harbor, Stinnett establishes almost beyond question that the U.S. Navy could have at least anticipated the attack."
    -Publishers Weekly (starred review)

    "Pearl harbor hold fewer secrets because of Stinnett's research."
    -Booklist
    "The intelligence and facts are being fixed around the policy."
    head of MI6

    "The Emory University study proves beyond a doubt that politicians and their acolytes - are lying morons."

    "We must make clear to the Germans that the wrong for which their fallen leaders are on trial is not that they lost the war, but that they started it."
    Justice Jackson Nov. 21, 1945, Nuremberg

  18. #18
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    Re: Hey I got a conspiracy for you...

    The fact remains that Americans were shocked even if FDR wasn't,
    While laughing at others stupidity, you may want to contemplate your own comedic talents. (link)
    Disclaimer: This information is being provided for informational, educational, and entertainment purposes only.

  19. #19
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    Re: Hey I got a conspiracy for you...

    Pibs - your grasp on history is a bit tenuous also. I kind of wish that you were still part of the Nipponese Greater Co-Prosperity Sphere in Borneo - just for a year or two anyway. You would be kind of glad to be rescued by the Brits, Yanks, or anybody. I have been to some of the sites of Japanese civilised behaviour in Malaya, Singapore and Hong Kong. I knew soldiers who enjoyed stays in those Japanese 'holiday camps' like Changi and Fort Stanley.

    The Japanese were traditionally jealous of America, they were also exceedingly brutal and expansionist. Ask the survivours of their tender attentions in Manchuria, China and Korea - ask the 'comfort women'. The air attack on a 'neutral' American gunboat USS Panay (evacuating diplomats and journalists from Nanking), and three American tankers, was deliberate and unprovoked. The strangling and limiting of strategic supplies to the Japanese was to curtail and curb Japanese military expansion, not to deliberately seek a war.

    Your comment on Pearl Harbour was uncalled for and a bit sick.

    ps. Read the 'Knights of Bushido' and look at its pictures. I recommend it immediately after a big meal.

    pps. FDR and Churchill, were not joyous about the casualties. They were looking at the big picture. It would take American intervention to make the war against evil in Europe as well as in Asia, be decisive and positive. Pearl Harbour was the big nudge. They would have been happier if all the warnings had been taken note of and resultant casualty figures much more equitable.
    Last edited by FruitandNut; January 20th, 2005 at 02:03 PM.
    "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." - Anais Nin.
    Emitte lucem et veritatem - Send out light and truth.
    'Fere libenter homines id quod volunt credunt' - Julius Caesar (rough translation, 'Men will think what they want to think')
    Kill my boss? Do I dare live out the American dream? - Homer Simpson.

  20. #20
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    Re: Hey I got a conspiracy for you...

    Right, that's why they sent the more modern ships away.

    Gawd sakes man, it's right in front of your face. Sure, perhaps those ends justified the means (blurhg!) but don't be so daft as to believe it was a great unexpected shock. The 1st commander there stated it was too dangerous and was removed, so some other patsy was put in place.

    Read the darn evidence and pull those stripes an stars off your eyes.

    P.
    "The intelligence and facts are being fixed around the policy."
    head of MI6

    "The Emory University study proves beyond a doubt that politicians and their acolytes - are lying morons."

    "We must make clear to the Germans that the wrong for which their fallen leaders are on trial is not that they lost the war, but that they started it."
    Justice Jackson Nov. 21, 1945, Nuremberg

 

 
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